back to article UK response to China's tech ambitions labelled 'incoherent and muted'

The UK's response to China's well-publicized efforts to use technology standards to shape the world in its image has been "incoherent and muted" according to report by the House of Commons Foreign Affairs Committee. Published last week, the report, titled "Encoding values: Putting tech at the heart of UK foreign policy", …

  1. LazLong

    Say 'Thank you' to the moronic Brexiteers

    The UK is in this position thanks to Russian misinformation/campaigning for Brexit, voter apathy, and the moronic Brexiteers themselves. WTF did the Brexiteers think was going to happen? Instead of being a big fish in an economically-strong hurd, they are now a rogue hamster that is going to get squashed between the jostling big three rabid hippopotami, China, the EU, and the US. This is what Brexiteers were selling, and way too many morons bought into it. So now they can reap the milkshakes they've sown. The UK's only choice is to enjoy their hamstership, join BRICS if it ever turns into an effective trade block, or go crawling back to the EU with their kneepads on and ready swallow.

    1. NewModelArmy

      Re: Say 'Thank you' to the moronic Brexiteers

      Yeah, that may be so, but at least we have got our imperial measurements. World beating ones, too.

      1. TimMaher Silver badge
        Pint

        Re: “lmperial measurements”

        Have a pint on me... an imperial one.

      2. VoiceOfTruth

        Re: Say 'Thank you' to the moronic Brexiteers

        We managed to circumnavigate the globe long before the metric system.

        1. Lars Silver badge
          Happy

          Re: Say 'Thank you' to the moronic Brexiteers

          @VoiceOfTruth

          "The first recorded circumnavigation of the Earth was the Magellan–Elcano expedition, which sailed from Sanlucar de Barrameda, Spain in 1519 and returned in 1522, after crossing the Atlantic, Pacific, and Indian oceans.".

          1. VoiceOfTruth

            Re: Say 'Thank you' to the moronic Brexiteers

            Did they use the metric system? I didn't say we made the FIRST circumnavigation, merely that we achieved it without the metric system.

            1. Eclectic Man Silver badge

              Re: Say 'Thank you' to the moronic Brexiteers

              According to Gavin Menzies, the Chinese circumnavigated the world much earlier:

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavin_Menzies

              "He was best known for his controversial book 1421: The Year China Discovered the World, in which he asserts that the fleets of Chinese Admiral Zheng He visited the Americas prior to European explorer Christopher Columbus in 1492, and that the same fleet circumnavigated the globe a century before the expedition of Ferdinand Magellan. Menzies' second book, 1434: The Year a Magnificent Chinese Fleet Sailed to Italy and Ignited the Renaissance, extended his discovery hypothesis to the European continent."

        2. Lars Silver badge
          Pint

          Re: Say 'Thank you' to the moronic Brexiteers

          @VoiceOfTruth

          Do you actually know why science and technology choose the metric system and why the imperial measurements are defined in the metric system, and to be more precise in the International System of Units (SI).

          It might also help you if you understand why Britain was not one to take part in the Treaty of the Metre in Paris on 20 May 1875 by representatives of 17 nations.

          There are several good and easy to grasp videos on YouTube explaining the advantage of the metric system over more ancient systems from around the world.

          A pint for you silly effort though.

          1. VoiceOfTruth

            Re: Say 'Thank you' to the moronic Brexiteers

            A patronising post, to which my response is "so what?"

            The world got on well enough without the metric system. Newton didn't use it, did he? Nor Copernicus. No Galileo. But the way some people go on, you would think science could not exist without metres and kilograms. Hahahaha.

      3. BebopWeBop
        Facepalm

        Re: Say 'Thank you' to the moronic Brexiteers

        Unique actually. That is the great thing about standards.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Say 'Thank you' to the moronic Brexiteers

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNHWkjTWFS0

      Brexit Makes UK Sick Man of Europe Again

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Say 'Thank you' to the moronic Brexiteers

        Except that if you look beyond the BBC, you'll see that epitaph is now being applied to Germany - first trade deficit since 1991, energy rationing, re-opening coal fired power stations despite supposed green commitments, etc

        Other EU and European nations may be going down the same road, but it is the Germans that are leading the way.

    3. VoiceOfTruth

      Re: Say 'Thank you' to the moronic Brexiteers

      I would vote Brexit just to thumb my nose at your "moronic" label. Indeed a lot of people did not like being talked down to by moronic people such as yourself, who cannot make a successful argument so have to resort to insults. There are more countries outside the EU, China, and the USA.

      -> Instead of being a big fish in an economically-strong hurd

      The UK was not a big fish in the EU. That much was clear for more than 20 years.

      1. iron

        Re: Say 'Thank you' to the moronic Brexiteers

        > There are more countries outside the EU, China, and the USA.

        Oh yes, lets do an economic deal with Saudi Arabia and North Korea instead shall we? That would be fun.

        1. VoiceOfTruth

          Re: Say 'Thank you' to the moronic Brexiteers

          You are attempting to change the subject. We were not a big fish in the EU for at least 20 years. That has no bearing at all on deals outside the EU.

          Certain other countries, but in particular France, didn't really want us in the EU anyway. That much is fact.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Say 'Thank you' to the moronic Brexiteers

            "The UK was a big fish in the EU. That much was clear for more than 20 years"

            Seems I can make statements too...

            However I'd also point out that new EU directives needed the approval of the Council of Ministers of which the UK used to be a member and that in practice decisions were unanimous... meaning that no directive was passed without the UKs agreement.

            See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_in_the_Council_of_the_European_Union

            Sounds like we had at least some influence.....

            Of course the UK also had a share of MEPs too, and influence throughout the various committees, in fact most people would say that the UK had more influence than a member state of its size would normally expect.

            None of this means you have to love the EU but the bottom line is that the UK now has almost 0 say in EU laws and so the "big players" (EU, US and China) get to make the rules.

          2. Dan 55 Silver badge

            Re: Say 'Thank you' to the moronic Brexiteers

            Would you be trying to get your tuppence ha'penny in first here in spite of that argument being comprehensively dismantled further down?

      2. Steve McIntyre

        Re: Say 'Thank you' to the moronic Brexiteers

        Wow, do you ever stop trolling?

  2. This post has been deleted by its author

  3. Dan 55 Silver badge

    Two possibilities

    Presumably the galaxy brains behind Brexit like Daniel Hannan and Dominic Cummings had both fallen asleep in GCSE/O-Level geography when the teacher was talking about spheres of influence, or they sold Brexit to a credulous populace on a lie.

    Unfortunately for the rest of us this problem, as well as many other problems with Brexit, can't be fixed by throwing more flags, bunting, and spitfires at it.

    1. VoiceOfTruth

      Re: Two possibilities

      We had almost zero influence in the EU. That was clear for more than 20 years. Please don't try and pretend otherwise. In almost every problem raised the "solution" was what the Germans and the French wanted.

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge

        Re: Two possibilities

        Data says something different.

        To the question "Is the UK marginalised in the EU?":

        Overall, using the best available data on EU decision-making, there is strong evidence that on average the UK has not been marginalised in the making of EU laws. The UK government has been closer to final policy outcomes than most other governments. This is also true for policy issues the UK government has been particularly concerned about, although there is some evidence that on certain policy issues, including internal market and trade, the UK has been less content with final EU decisions.

        But there are some important caveats to these findings.

        This dataset only covers policies that are subject to the main EU decision-making procedures, so not the EU budget or international treaties. The data only goes up to 2008, and obviously a lot has happened since then.

        To the question "Is the UK a winner or loser in the EU Council?":

        The council overwhelmingly decides by consensus, which means the UK is on the winning majority side almost 87% of the time.

        The UK government might be more willing than other governments to publicly register its opposition to EU decisions.

        The data does not tell us what went on behind the scenes on each of these issues, and hence how much the UK disagreed with the majority position when it recorded its opposition – perhaps the UK was on the winning side on all the key issues it really cared about in this period.

        To the question "Do UK MEPs get key positions of power in Europe?":

        In short, UK MEPs have captured many powerful agenda-setting positions. They have been vice-presidents, political group leaders, and chairs of important committees. UK MEPs have also won rapporteurships on key legislation, which has enabled them to shape EU law.

        Moreover, UK MEPs have not been “underrepresented” relative to the MEPs from the other big member states. And all this has been despite the growing number of Ukip MEPs, who have not competed for many key offices or rapporteurships.

        So, the UK was not at all marginalised, unlike what a certain leave-pushing character would have you believe, and it only started to marginalise itself from 2010 onwards.

        And finally: "Britons among least knowledgeable about European Union".

        So, there we go.

        1. VoiceOfTruth

          Re: Two possibilities

          Excellent quotes from the Guardian, guaranteed to be impartial when it comes to matters concerning the EU. You may as well quote Fox not-News about Biden.

          1. R Soul Silver badge

            Re: Two possibilities

            When you can't argue the facts, attack the messenger.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Two possibilities

          @Dan 55

          I know I should leave your comment alone. I really should. But what the hell...

          So you are referencing data that is 14 years old? And even then it is only about "strong evidence".

          Since Brexit, there has been a pandemic, and now a proxy war by the U.S.A. and the U.K. But neither of those two items will have had the slightest bearing on the totally shit state of (what I laughingly refer to) our governments "tech policy". Right?

          Tech policy seems to consist of letting tech companies be sold off. No questions asked. Unless the Americans object to the buyer. That Welsh company for example.

          1. Dan 55 Silver badge

            Re: Two possibilities

            About the conclusion near the end of the article:

            "The Government now needs to extend the UK's influence within the global technology landscape, to ensure that future technologies are developed and used in ways that align with our values and, crucially, uphold the rights and freedoms of people in the UK and across the world," the report concludes.

            That is extremely difficult or even impossible to do after Brexit. The EU's values were the UK's values before it voted in the referendum, this is not true any more after Brexit. In any area were the UK wants to influence foreign countries, it is now weaker.

            The data is 7 years old, and that's all that's necessary to see that tale of victimhood about the UK being ignored by other EU countries sold to us at the time of the referendum by Vote Leave et all was wrong. Any data about our position in the EU after 2016 is irrelevant anyway, we'd burnt our bridges by that point.

            There are three ways out of this hole, either be happy with our post-Brexit lot and not even try to influence other countries, spend a lot of time and money trying to influence similar-sized and smaller countries on the other side of the world and have committees write reports such as this saying we're not getting far, or try and work out a way back from Brexit. Everything leads back to Brexit, whether we like to admit it or not.

      2. NeilPost

        Re: Two possibilities

        That’s garbage. The UK’s influence waned over the Cameron years but that was due to a policy of disinterest. Prior to that the UK agreed with most EU legislation and was hugely influential in direction.

        The UK’s influence through the EU (and external. Non-EU originated stuff it has signed up go like the Council of Europe/ECHR) is massive.

        The internal market is a case study in UK influence.

        As with most pan-national organisations … you get out what you put in. With a stronger positive outlook/engagement the UK could have outshone the Franco-German EU lead. The UK was late into the EU don’t forget.

        Post-Brexit …. Outside the major trade blocks of the US, China and the EU … the UK is a small rule-taker, without influence. The UK is not ‘in’ the CPTPP yet… and what we will get out of it uncertain right now…. but having barriers to trade with your closest neighbouring bloc - as in the EU - will never be recovered by this.

  4. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

    Alien Information for Powerful Education and Almighty Entertainment ‽ .

    Failure to engage with home grown inventive and radically disruptive assets, .... [and it is a National Intelligence Disgrace to realise that also a present omission for Vital and Virile HyperRadioProACTive IT] ..... exercising and pioneering with landscape shape shifting technologies exploiting the myriad 0day vulnerability opportunities in Novel AIMethodologies, ....[an abject but fully understandable failure born of the fear of its revolutionary departure from traditional norms of human SCADA Systems Command and Control] .... both virtually and practically guarantees their worth being betatested and exported to foreign fields of similar interest and endeavour for AWEsome Future AIdDevelopment delivering Future Universal Leading Advantage.

    Now, .... admittedly, ..... that is a very bold statement of fantastic fact which very easily can be proven and/or prove itself to not also be just a futuristic fiction ...... with all manner of necessary proofs/provings employed and deployed for an elite edutainment programming of the masses.

    And .... as such proofs/proving are certainly necessary for a wide spread of immediate relief in any state or environment of petrified and stagnant paralysis, one can fully expect them to appear from practically nowhere in such situations/times/places/spaces causing more than just a ripple and stir in Status Quo Operations.

    The UK's response to China's well-publicized efforts to use technology standards to shape the world in its image has been "incoherent and muted" according to report by the House of Commons Foreign Affairs Committee.

    That surely was not surprising news to the House of Commons Foreign Affairs Committee? Such appears to be the UK's default standard condition/position with regard to gaining global influence technologies and so much more beyond their limited control and comprehension.

    One has to ask, and it is hereby so asked ....... What is/would be the UK's response to Alien Information efforts to use technology standards to reshape the world in well-publicised presentations/flash media iterations ‽ . Incoherent and muted would be a quantum leap up from deadly silent and non-existent, methinks.

    1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

      Re: Alien Information for Powerful Education and Almighty Entertainment ‽ .

      Here's some almighty education impacting upon a still live disgraceful Parliamentary episode which shows no signs of learning from mistakes and improving the lot of the nation and nations and their subjects ....... Bravo, James O'Brien

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "clearly articulate its position on data sharing, privacy and private-sector regulation"

    It's very simple: "where's the money for me and my friends?" UK believed it could become a heaven for business not liking regulations - just to find the other blocks will enact their own and UK is no longer powerful enough to ignore them.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "clearly articulate its position..."

      The current tawdry beauty contest with its parade of skimpiest tax regimes in front of an electorate of corpulent nostalgists and rabid privateers doesn't bode well for any kind of decent future. Not that the opposition seem to be proposing anything better. Mr Magoo upon a peak in Darien.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Ha....."leveling up" from a zero base, I suppose!!

    Quote: "...The Government now needs to extend the UK's influence within the global technology landscape...."

    ......as if the UK had ANY technology landscape of its own!!!!

    Aerospace: Napier, Gloster, Supermarine, Hawker, Short Brothers, Fairey, Blackburn, English Electric, de Havilland..........

    Computer: English Electric (KDF9), Atlas (Ferranti, Plessey), ICL, INMOS......

    Automotive: Everything in the UK today is owned elsewhere (France, Germany, India, China)......

    Even the navy ships we build are regularly "dead in the water"....six of them are "in for repairs" as we speak. (See: Type 45: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/royal-navy-destroyers-engine-problems-in-port-russia-ukraine-b981191.html)

    Ha.....what "technology landscape" would that be?

    1. Stork

      Re: Ha....."leveling up" from a zero base, I suppose!!

      Isn't Morgan still British owned?

      1. Lars Silver badge
        Coat

        Re: Ha....."leveling up" from a zero base, I suppose!!

        "Isn't Morgan still British owned?".

        No it's Italian.

  7. mpi Silver badge

    Simple Question, with a simple answer:

    Country 1 is a member of a political superblock, which features some of the biggest economies in the world, and overall makes a good effort to act in a spirit of mutual support.

    Country 2 is not a member.

    Both countries are equal in all other measurements: Area, population size, military assets, economic strength, etc.

    Now for the question: Which of these countries has more pull on the global political stage?

    1. VoiceOfTruth

      Re: Simple Question, with a simple answer:

      Yours is a false comparison, because these mythical similar countries do not exist. The populations of India are approximately the same but economically they are not. The UK's population is much smaller than India's but has much more pull on the world stage. Etc.

      1. mpi Silver badge

        Re: Simple Question, with a simple answer:

        What if country 1 and country 2 are the same country, but at slightly different points in time?

        1. Helcat Silver badge

          Re: Simple Question, with a simple answer:

          Then country 1 would benefit from the membership, but at a cost of reduced options/freedom. This might be seen as a small price to pay, particularly if the reduced options do not impose hardships or penalties. This would also be more desirable of the membership was one of equals.

          Country 2 would have reduced influence but would benefit from greater freedoms: This may be more desirable if the cost of membership imposed restrictions that caused hardships or notable penalties, and worse, of the membership was not one of equals..

          So it all depends on factors that are in flux: At any one point, Country 1 would be better off, then it could quickly flip to Country 2. The question would be which is better in the long term, particularly if the Membership starts drawing Country 1 into something that isn't so popular.

          So no, not a simple answer: It all depends.

  8. Plest Silver badge
    Gimp

    My rather vivid imagination has gone haywire since read this a few days ago about "rule takers" and "rule makers". The UK as sub, full leather gear on, China the dom telling us to get on our knees 'cos it's this going to get very uncomfortable! ha ha!!!

    1. VoiceOfTruth

      If you look at recent history (the last few years) the UK has been taking up the backside from the USA, not from China.

  9. Mike 137 Silver badge

    UK response to China's tech ambitions labelled 'incoherent and muted'

    UK response to [insert whatever you fancy] very likely to be 'incoherent and muted' these days.

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