back to article Elon Musk considering 'drastic action' as Twitter takeover in 'jeopardy'

Elon Musk has decided that it's impossible to verify the number of bot accounts on Twitter even though the social media network has told him their estimates, how they arrived at such estimates, and provided his team with a "firehose" of user data that is usually sold to corporate customers. In case you were wondering whether …

  1. CheesyTheClown

    Where is the ROI?

    I have been seriously wondering what Musk would actually be buying.

    Twitter isn’t a meaningful information sharing platform. It does not promote communication. It requires users to favor banter. I haven’t seen much use of Twitter as anything other than sharing links and making quirky comments. It is commonly used for taking swipes at other people on a platform which greatly limits follow up discussion.

    I see absolutely no features or Twitter which provide real value. As an example, look at Facebook. As a platform; it is generally also a cesspool, but everyone tends to have a Facebook account and often have messenger because it is the modern equivalent of a personal phone book. Twitter doesn’t have a real networking feature. You just follow people, you don’t connect with them.

    I wouldn’t consider Twitter a worthy investment. The only value I can see for Musk to buy Twitter is to hurt Donald Trump. And frankly, he is rich enough to do something petty like that.

    1. Jamie Jones Silver badge

      Re: Where is the ROI?

      Exactly.

      The only time you see meaningful posts on twitter, they are generally split into a large bunch of consecutive tweets, which looks messy, and can cause parts of the message to "go missing".

      The whole system is designed to restrict any meaningful discussions!

    2. A Non e-mouse Silver badge

      Re: Where is the ROI?

      I thought Musk was buying Twatter as he thought it was censoring people and he was going change that policy? (Th censoring of people who criticize Musk would continue...)

      1. Blank Reg

        Re: Where is the ROI?

        No, he was "buying" twitter so that he had an excuse to sell Tesla stock. He needed to try and hide the fact that the real reason he was selling was that it was massively overvalued and would likely plummet as the big boys have now entered his playground

    3. ThomH

      Re: Where is the ROI?

      I think it's the opposite; if he bought Twitter and choose very selectively not to apply its various moderation policies, he could continue his ingratiation with the Republican Party and thereby gain such favours as he desires next time the pendulum of government swings back to them.

      See also: the drama of the Texas AG vs Twitter, with Texas 'inexplicably' using government clout to further Musk's objectives.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Where is the ROI?

        >he could continue his ingratiation with the Republican Party

        There are cheaper ways, a $1M in a brown envelope to the local politician is a lot easier than $50Bn for Twitter

        1. John D'oh!

          Re: Where is the ROI?

          It wouldn't have cost him that tho. Most of it was being funded by VCs I believe and the bit he ponied up was all imaginary magic money.

        2. chivo243 Silver badge
          Holmes

          Re: Where is the ROI?

          $50Bn is the cost of a presidency, or a presidency in your pocket? Wow, that's pricey!

          1. Stoneshop
            Facepalm

            Re: Where is the ROI?

            $50Bn is the cost of a presidency, or a presidency in your pocket?

            If you try to do so by buying Twatter. I'd expect there to be some other costs still.

            Putin won't have paid that much getting Cheeto Benito into the White House, and the additional cost of the remote control option was just a pair of hookers and a couple of video cams (standard KGB equipment anyway).

    4. Someone Else Silver badge

      Re: Where is the ROI?

      The ROI is ingratiating himself (again; more) with tRump, allowing the Orange-utan back on the megaphone so that he can FUD himself back into power. The Muskrat can then expect serial favors from he who would be our last president.

      At least, that would be the plan...assuming of course that tRump is not serving time in Leavenworth by then.

    5. Disgusted Of Tunbridge Wells Silver badge

      Re: Where is the ROI?

      He's rich enough that he could just be doing it to improve the world.

      Imagine if the left wing cess pit was no longer a left wing cess pit.

      1. Stuart Castle Silver badge

        Re: Where is the ROI?

        I don't know the man, so I could be being unfair, but I doubt he is doing it to improve the world. People don't get to be billionaires by throwing money at stuff for free. There will be some bonus for him or his companies.

        1. MachDiamond Silver badge

          Re: Where is the ROI?

          "There will be some bonus for him or his companies."

          Sure, he could allow everybody to write whatever they like about any topic but Elon or one of the companies he holds lots of stock in. So much "news reporting" is just lazy journalists copying and pasting tweets these days. The tactic would cut out a load of bad press.

      2. Ilsa Loving

        Re: Where is the ROI?

        What never ceases to amaze me is the sheer level of projection slung by rightwingers.

        The overwhelming majority of crap on not just twitter but all social media, come from distinctly right-wing sources. Russian botnets. Anti-vaxxers. Trump Supporters. "Libertarians". ALL of this is massively right-wing.

        While there are plenty of malcontents on the left, it's the equivalent of a leftist brandishing a knife at someone, vs the right nuking a major metropolitan city.

        1. Strahd Ivarius Silver badge
          Mushroom

          Re: Where is the ROI?

          with the current Supreme Court, you can expect to have a nuke covered under the 2nd Amendment, contrary to a knife...

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Where is the ROI?

      veryone tends to have a Facebook account and often have messenger because it is the modern equivalent of a personal phone book

      .. which is the exact reason I do not have a Facebook account, and any use of it by companies to communicate with customers should be cause for a GDPR fine. We even have an evaluation of social media use as one of the rules in the assessment protocol for vendors now.

    7. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Where is the ROI?

      "I have been seriously wondering what Musk would actually be buying."

      I'm suddenly reminded of the Sgt Bilko classic "The Empty Store".

    8. MrDamage

      Re: Where is the ROI?

      Propaganda machine so his incel fanbase can worship at his feet so he can get his little rocket to lift off.

    9. steviebuk Silver badge

      Re: Where is the ROI?

      Not worth the price tag but it does have its amusements. I follow very very accounts. One notible is whs_carpet originally about the state of the carpets in WHSmith but now about all shops and the their funny sides. Like the discount price tags where only 1p is saved or nothing is saved. WHSmith discounted books from years ago that are now worthless (driving test ones come to mind) and then the historic side where people find old photos of beloved stores. Someone found a WHSmith that still had the cube logo round the back and so on. It's quite interesting.

      And can help with research. I watch an Isle of Wight channel about old iow videos. One was put up for Queen Jubilee from 70s I think, unknown location. Decided it was a challenge to find it from shops in background. Asked on that tweeter account & the Sainsbury's archive account as I just couldn't find the place. Not long after asking someone said looked similar to their local shopping area & then the Sainsbury's archive account said they'd found it in their archive. Said what store it was and location :) turned out I couldn't find it as several of the buildings had been knocked down to building a shopping centre.

    10. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Where is the ROI?

      I assumed he is just manipulating the stock market again. No idea how he so blatantly gets away with it.

      1. teknopaul

        Re: Where is the ROI?

        That didn't work very well for his existing stock did it.

    11. Ilsa Loving

      Re: Where is the ROI?

      What you say makes perfect sense. That being said, every single thing you said is _entirely irrelevant_.

      It also completely ignores the subtext of all this. He did all this because twitter pisses him off and he's using the stock market to punish them by illegally manipulating it.

      But in his arrogance he overplayed his hand. Musk committed to buying twitter, and he chose to skip due dilligence. He is obligated to complete the deal, at the price stated. PERIOD.

      1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

        Re: Where is the ROI?

        He is obligated to complete the deal, at the price stated.

        That would be nice (just because it would punish Musk for being an ass as usual), but it's not so simple.

        The agreement lets him bow out under various pretexts. One is the "you didn't give us all the information we requested". Consequently, for the past 30 days, his team has been more and more ridiculous requests for information, to build their case for escaping the contract.

        This will almost certainly end up in court, and nothing is certain until that process, including the inevitable appeals if no settlement is reached, is done. The result that looks most likely now is that Musk pays a fair bit to walk away – probably more than the $1B abandonment penalty, presumably much less than the $44B purchase price.

        There's a good writeup on Techdirt.

    12. Plest Silver badge
      Big Brother

      Re: Where is the ROI?

      Twittter was, when it started, a small quirky little messaging platform. It grew and was used to help so many organise rallies and attempts to bring about political change and it worked well, until our betters noticed.

      Our betters, those pulling the strings of presidents and the most powerful corps in the world, don't like the masses having tools they didn't issue and don't like, so they slowly took control of Twitter and now it's nothing more than a platform for driving the fat, lazy, feckless docile masses in whatever direction Twitter is being paid to push this week.

      Think I sound like a conspiracy nut. Do you homework, read up on the history of the company, the founders constant power struggles, the way Twitter promotes and removes postings at will, how they don't even allow postings on events that should be know to everyone and how Twitter only cares for the agenda of their political paymasters.

      Twitter is in the ranks of the insidiious platforms like Facebook/Meta, YouTube and TikTok as one of the most vile things currently affecting humanity and I hope this damages both Musk ( an infantile man who needs to grow up ) and Twitter, however I don't think we'd be that lucky.

      1. MachDiamond Silver badge

        Re: Where is the ROI?

        "Our betters, those pulling the strings of presidents and the most powerful corps in the world, don't like the masses having tools they didn't issue and don't like, so they slowly took control of Twitter "

        I have a different take. The overlords could never keep track of all of the whispers so they love things like Twitter. All social media makes the bulk of their money selling data about their users. Twitter knows who is following who. Retweets to broaden a tweets coverage and how those people interact. I doubt they'd put up a fight if a three letter agency "requested" a bunch of that back end information. Since nearly everybody is horrible at infosec, it wouldn't be that hard for some organization that's good at it to put proper names on those pseudonyms. If you shut down every communication channel of your adversaries, they might just come up with some that you fail to notice or can't snoop on as easily.

      2. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

        Re: Where is the ROI?

        Frankly, human nature and the particular features of Twitter as a medium (brevity, immediacy, indiscriminate publication, etc.) are more than adequate to explain the unfortunate result. Occam's Razor says any hypothesis that requires organized meretriciousness is less probable.

  2. StrangerHereMyself Silver badge

    Burn

    Musk is going to burn for this. He's gone too far this time, making wild statements and making illogical decisions. I qualify paying $45 billion for a worthless POS like Twitter as nothing short of insanity or financial belligerence with the intent to self-inflict injury.

    When he announced the deal I knew Tesla and SpaceX would be pulled down with him. And I've been proven right.

    1. ThomH

      Re: Burn

      He's estimated to be worth more than $200bn so he can find the $1bn breakup fee if he has to, but I also wonder whether he's antagonising exactly the people who constitute the majority of his customers.

      1. gecho

        Re: Burn

        Elon does what billionaires do to avoid paying taxes. Instead of selling stock which generates a taxable income, he uses that stock as collateral for loans. The only reason he sold stock last year was to cover the taxes on stock options that were about to expire. With his shenanigans causing the stock price of Tesla to fall, he's at risk of the banks demanding more collateral. If he's suddenly forced to sell a bunch of stock to cover the twitter deal he could be facing another billion dollar tax bill. And dumping more Tesla stock could further drive down Tesla's stock.

      2. eldakka

        Re: Burn

        > he can find the $1bn breakup fee if he has to

        The problem is he may have to come up with the $44b. Musk cannot terminate the takeover deal at will by just paying $1b. There is a contract between Musk and Twitter for the takeover of Twitter. Unless Musk can find a sufficiently valid legal reason to break the contract, or Twitter agrees to Musk backing out with just the $1b break-fee, Twitter could force Musk to go through with the full $44b takeover. Don't forget in that takoever contract, Musk specifically waived standard due diligence conditions. Therefore it would have to be something really huge, something beyond normal due diligence - since that has been waived - problems cropping up, and Musk's complaints about the bot-rate isn't it. That spam-bot estimate - 5% - has been public knowledge, it's been listed in previous Twitter SEC filings, since before the takeover proposal. Therefore that is something that Musk should already know, at least if he performed normal due diligence, but of course he waived that right.

        1. katrinab Silver badge
          Megaphone

          Re: Burn

          The other thing is that people out there actually willingly follow some bots because they provide useful information.

          1. Someone Else Silver badge

            Re: Burn

            The other thing is that people out there actually willingly follow some bots because they provide useful information don't know not to.

            There, FTFY

            1. doublelayer Silver badge

              Re: Burn

              While I don't have a Twitter account and don't follow any of those bots, there are bots that provide a useful service. I've created several of my own to automatically retrieve information and present it in a useful way. I know some using Twitter can do the same.

          2. Steve Crook

            Re: Burn

            > follow some bots because they provide useful information

            Yes, but who is the information useful to and which direction is the flow?

            1. MachDiamond Silver badge

              Re: Burn

              "Yes, but who is the information useful to and which direction is the flow?"

              Way back when I had a Twitter account there was a bot that would send me a tweet to let me know if there was an ISS pass within the next so many hours. Twitter shut that one down for too many tweets as it was really popular.

        2. Malcolm Weir

          Re: Burn

          I don't believe this is actually true: there is a summary of the merger agreement posted on the SEC's website (https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1418091/000119312522120474/d310843ddefa14a.htm), which asserts that if he doesn't provide the funding, then the deal's off and he owes $1B. There are no restrictions on _why_ the funding isn't provided, just that if the it isn't funded, or the clock runs out (Oct 24, 2022), he pays $1B and get's nothing.

          1. DS999 Silver badge

            Re: Burn

            That's the damages specified in the contract for failing to pay on time. The damages for breaking the purchase contract itself would be determined in court when Twitter sues Musk.

            Given that he clearly has the means to pay, they could enforce performance.

            1. MJB7

              Re: Burn

              Courts *hate* enforcing performance. They would much rather issue a judgement for monetary damages, and they are very likely to conclude that the $1B has been agreed by the parties as the amount of the damages.

              1. Benegesserict Cumbersomberbatch Silver badge

                Re: Burn

                The market cap difference between Twitter before and after the deal was announced, then un-announced, is a lot more than $1b.

                Damages will be the little boy's promise, plus something to teach the little boy to keep his promises.

        3. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

          Re: Burn

          "Musk cannot terminate the takeover deal at will by just paying $1b."

          From what I understand of what's been going on, yes, he CAN walk away by paying out the $1B termination fee. The shenanigans over the bot count is Musk trying to walk away WITHOUT paying the termination fee because the agreement can be cancelled if the are "significant changes" since the deal was agreed.

        4. MachDiamond Silver badge

          Re: Burn

          "Musk cannot terminate the takeover deal at will by just paying $1b."

          That's the break up fee.

        5. Persona Silver badge

          Re: Burn

          Unless Musk can find a sufficiently valid legal reason to break the contract

          Potentially the easiest way of doing that is to show that they lied about there being less that 5% fake Twitter users and in reality what they are trying to sell him is a platform with many less users than claimed.

          From his perspective the ideal disclosure evidence (should it exist) would be internal communications showing Twitter management were aware that the 5% was an underestimate. That then allows his lawyers to claim that Twitter provided fraudulent information to secure the contract.

      3. katrinab Silver badge

        Re: Burn

        Most of that $200bn is in Tesla shares, and if he tried to sell them all at once, he wouldn't get $200bn for them. The reason for the drop in value of Tesla is the expectation that a large quantity of shares are about to be dumped on the market.

        1. gecho

          Re: Burn

          He could make a bunch more by taking SpaceX public, but then he'd be subject to SEC oversight and whims of the market on that business too, so it's the last thing he'd do.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Burn

            While taking SpaceX Public is an option, the IPO price may not be what he would want though. He has shown poor judgement at Tesla. He has shown poor judgement with having an affair with a top executive one of his other companies. He has shown bad judgement in the Twitter deal.

            On an IPO, most of the shares are not bought by your average stock investor; but banks, mutual funds, etc.

            Also, if he used IPO money to buy Twitter, he pays a lot of money for Twitter but it is worth far south of that.

            Where he is going to get some of the funding for the Twitter deal is probably off the table now. Why would they now be interested in Twitter now. The original price of $54.20 a share was already a premium and compared to where the share price is now, $54.20 will mean it could be beyond getting your money back for the foreseeable future.

            The shareholders of Twitter as well as the board want the deal to close as they profit from it. The people or entities that help fund that are on the losing side. They would be on the losing side because of Elon Musk.

            1. MachDiamond Silver badge

              Re: Burn

              "While taking SpaceX Public is an option, the IPO price may not be what he would want though."

              Without a solid plan that included some ROI for a Mars program, he would have to cancel those dreams even if he was able to maintain a majority stake. He'd also have to prove likely returns on the Starlink system to a wider array of people that can do math and aren't interested in anything more than making money.

        2. MachDiamond Silver badge

          Re: Burn

          "The reason for the drop in value of Tesla is the expectation that a large quantity of shares are about to be dumped on the market."

          There was also a huge push back on Elon dividing more of his time when Tesla needs to get promised models into production and factories up to speed.

      4. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Burn

        "He's estimated to be worth more than $200bn"

        That estimate is based on market value of his holdings. Realising that would be a different matter. If he sells a substantial chunk the market price goes down. That sort of estimate isn't worth the paper the money's not printed on.

        1. MachDiamond Silver badge

          Re: Burn

          "That estimate is based on market value of his holdings."

          Much of that is pledged already so he'd have to pay off some loans to be able to sell that stock.

      5. Ilsa Loving

        Re: Burn

        Considering that almost none of the 45 billion he's offering is actually his own money, I am really really hoping that things get downright cannibalistic.

      6. MachDiamond Silver badge

        Re: Burn

        "he can find the $1bn breakup fee if he has to"

        He keeps on winning court cases so if he only has to spend $100mn on attorneys, that's a 90% discount.

        1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

          Re: Burn

          The $100M would be on top of the $1B breakup fee, plus any other costs assessed by the court. There's essentially no chance of getting out of the $1B breakup fee regardless of what contortions his legal team put themselves through. Read the Techdirt article.

    2. Alpharious

      Re: Burn

      I disagree. If twitter takes this to court then they are epically stupid. This will end in regulation for social media if that happens. This is not an IT or tech issue, but a financial regulation issue. The meat and potatoes of this is that twitter did not have a satisfactory answer as to what their user engagement really is. They have data that they sell to corporations, but the main allegation that Musk has made, that the journalists are NOT addressing, is that this data is doctored and not scientifically valid.

      They would have to explain to the courts, why they use such a small sample size for determining bots, they will have to explain to the courts how they differentiate between Russian bots and legitimate bots. They will have to explain to the court how their methods followed ethical business guidelines and how they came to their methodology.

      I really want to see the outcome of this. I do not believe twitter has ever been forthcoming with honest data. There was this laissez faire mentality that the public had with them that to me was too reminiscent of the dot.com bubble and enron. when you have the cable news screeching about Russian bots on twitter yet nothing comes out of it, something is clearly wrong. No other industry seems to have these issues, so why do we accept it on social media?

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Burn

        "This is not an IT or tech issue, but a financial regulation issue."

        But most of the points you then make are technical.

        The point others have made that you ignore is that he waived due diligence so why is he making a fuss now other than to wriggle out of a bargain that he didn't just enter freely but insisted upon?

        This isn't going to be like HP/Autonomy waived due diligence. In that case it was a US coumapny in US courts vs non-US and even then HP had to swallow their losses. This is one US company in US courts vs another.

      2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: Burn

        I was thinking along similar lines. It's all well and good Twitter stating they know how many bots there are based on a statistical analysis of 100 account and then giving Musks team access to the "firehose" of raw data and saying "look, here it is, work it out for yourself" when Twitter themselves are really the only ones in a position to actually analyse that data themselves. It make you wonder WHY they aren't analysing that data themselves. Data collection is a major part of their business. Why don't they know? There's many other reasons why Musk is a dick and screwing around over this deal, but asking for this bot data and then Twitter being so obtuse over it is not one of them.

      3. MachDiamond Silver badge

        Re: Burn

        "The meat and potatoes of this is that twitter did not have a satisfactory answer as to what their user engagement really is."

        Beyond the waiving of due diligence, this is a hostile takeover, not a negotiated sale. Twitter wasn't looking to sell out. If I take a fancy to your car and make a high offer that you will accept, it doesn't mean I can then demand to see all of the service records before handing over the cash. If we have a contract for the sale and it contains a clause that if you back out, you owe me money, you still can't demand to see the records I hold before paying unless that's specifically in the contract and you can terminate the deal if you see anything you don't like. I am not on the hook to make any assurances as I was not the one that initiated the sale.

        Elon publicly made it known that he would pay $54.20/share as his best, last and final offer as-is.

        1. Spazturtle Silver badge

          Re: Burn

          "you still can't demand to see the records I hold before paying unless that's specifically in the contract and you can terminate the deal if you see anything you don't like."

          The moment Twitter said that less than 5% of accounts were bots they became legally required to prove it, they should have just said that they didn't know. You can't lie about details of the company during a buyout.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The fun part is that even if he wants to, he can't take the $1BN breakup fee option. He's signed the agreement to buy already, waiving due diligence as he did so, and he now has to attempt to buy Twitter at the agreed price. The breakup fee only comes into play if he's unable to secure funding, and "but the bots" or "I don't want to" doesn't count as being unable. If he can't wrangle any investors any more, he has to go back to the original offer of paying by selling of his own shares.

    Kick and scream as much as he wants, he's made his bed and now has to sleep in it. The question is just if he'll give in (which being that it's Musk, just lol at that happening), or if Twitter has to drag him to court first.

    1. Disgusted Of Tunbridge Wells Silver badge

      If he can prove fraud, which it could be argued that the dodgy bot numbers are, then surely that's an out ( and an in for the directors. In to prison ).

      1. gecho

        Which he won't be able to do. Twitter didn't court Elon, they wanted him to F%&K off. Elon forced this deal on them.

      2. eldakka

        > If he can prove fraud, which it could be argued that the dodgy bot numbers are

        What are you basing that on?

        Twitter says that 5% of it's average monthly monetizable users are spam-bots, not that 5% of its entire account base are spam-bots.

        The 'monetizable users' are the user accounts that remain after they have filtered out spam and other accounts that they don't generate money from. They could have already eliminated over 50% of their total accounts to come up with this 'monetizable users' number. What they are saying is that their filtering process is not perfect, that after they have filtered out what they think are junk accounts, that remaining set could still have a few - 5% - bot accounts.

        1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Just about anything can be argued in court and often is. It doesn't necessarily work.

        2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

          "that remaining set could still have a few - 5% - bot accounts."

          Twitter say they have 330 million active users. If we halve that and say 5% are bots, that's still 8,250,000 bots. eight and a quarter million bots. Sounds like a lot to me. In PR terms, it seems like a much bigger and scarier number than 5%. Especially when there's still another 150 million "non-monitisable" accounts, many, many more of which could be bots than the baseline 5%. But apparently even Twitter don't know how many there are. It sounds more and more like they are wilfully turning a blind eye to make their numbers look better.

          1. MachDiamond Silver badge

            "that's still 8,250,000 bots"

            Define what a bot is and if all bots are a detriment. They aren't "users" that can be marketed at, but they might engage people in a way that keeps them glued to twitter longer.

      3. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

        Try to understand that in this instance, Musk is being really really stupid.

        If he wants to buy twitter he needs to talk up its value to just below the purchase price so he can get good interest rates on the required loans.

        If he wants to back out of the deal he needs to talk up the share price until it is well over his offer so Twitter shareholders decide they would be better off voting against the sale.

        Trash talking Twitter again is just going to repeat the financial battering he took last time he did it.

    2. Malcolm Weir

      Not true. See link to the SEC website I posted elsewhere. If he doesn't provide the money or the clock runs out, the $1B option happens.

      1. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

        Skimmed it. It is large with plentiful legal jargon and IANAL.

        Section 9.9 covers specific performance. So far Twitter appear to have jumped through the required hoops to apply for it. Musk's drivel about 5% bots does not come close to a way out and if he had anything better he would be shouting it from the roof tops. It will go before a judge and there will likely be a settlement before the judge reaches a decision. It will take years but Musk will not wriggle out of this for a paltry $1B.

        1. MachDiamond Silver badge

          " It will take years but Musk will not wriggle out of this for a paltry $1B."

          That's hard to say. He didn't get his peepee slapped for calling somebody (repeatedly) a pedophile. He didn't get in trouble for lying on SEC filings about Solar City. He didn't get spanked for not recusing himself as he said during the Solar City bailout. The guy is proving himself to be coated in PTFE.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Chilling effect ?

    The TL;DR of this pantomime has been to expose the fact that any "value" in social media platforms is derived from what the owners of said social media platforms claim.

    I've known car salesmen like that.

    All Musk has done is put them to the sword. And - surprise, surprise - mysteriously they can't find the goods.

    If anyone pays to advertise on Twatter after this (or "Meta" or whatever the current trend is) without negotiating a serious discount is a little dim.

    And that is why Musk has drawn the haters.

    Social media platforms are a little like ponzi cryptoscams. You seem to need a new one every so often to ensure people still part with cash.

    1. First Light

      Re: Chilling effect ?

      No he has done considerably more than that by signing legally binding agreements which he will undoubtedly vigourously contest in court for several years up and down to various appellate levels. The lawyers are licking their lips and they are about the only people to benefit from this shambles.

      1. Malcolm Weir

        Re: Chilling effect ?

        Oddly enough, the Delaware Chancery Court is not like most courts, and moves really, really quickly... and can only be appealed to the Delaware Supreme Court.

        It's hard to see how Musk could get a Federal jurisdiction, as the deal is structured as one Delaware corporation (Musk's vehicle, called X Holdings I) buying another (Twitter) with the assistance of two other ones (X Holdings II and III, also Musk's vehicles).

        1. First Light

          Re: Chilling effect ?

          I'm also including potential SEC actions related to the agreement and his behaviour around this takeover attempt. They would presumably be in federal court. And wouldn't some shareholder actions end up there also?

          1. Malcolm Weir

            Re: Chilling effect ?

            That's a good point, but while the SEC might go after Musk for being a basic dinkwahd, shareholders only have limited recourse against the existing board. And of course only if they don't get their $54.20 a share... if they do, or are "made whole" by (hypothetically speaking) Musk paying Twitter enough cash to increase the value of the company to the point where each share is worth $54.20, they won't have a leg to stand on.

            The consensus amongst those who know seems to be that this is going to cost Musk ten figures, but opinion varies as to whether it's low (the $1b breakup fee), middle or high...

        2. Benegesserict Cumbersomberbatch Silver badge

          Re: Chilling effect ?

          We've seen Musk's vehicles flung away beyond any hope of retrieval before.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Chilling effect ?

        Legally binding agreements?

        It reminds me of someone that will out of a job shortly...

    2. skswales

      Re: Chilling effect ?

      It has ads?

    3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Chilling effect ?

      "I've known car salesmen like that."

      Indeed.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Of course its an excuse to bail on the deal; he was well aware of that "issue" long before he opened his mouth to brag about how he was going to "free" the internet for the likes of Drumpf to spew their lies and BS.

    1. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

      It is not just a matter of inciting violence. Republicans hate the idea of other people having free speech.

    2. nobody who matters Bronze badge

      ".....Of course its an excuse to bail on the deal...."

      You now appear to be absolutely correct; that is exactly the reason he is using:

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62102821

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      By the way, Musk is demanding that Twitter prove a negative. For a supposedly "brilliant" man, he's remarkably ignorant of basic philosophy and logic rules.

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        For a supposedly "brilliant" man, he's remarkably ignorant of basic philosophy and logic rules.

        Not necessarily. A failure to do so on Twitter's part is his best chance of wriggling out of the deal.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Not unless he buys the judges.

          1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

            I said it's his best chance. I didn't say it would work.

            1. Stoneshop
              Headmaster

              I said it's his best chance. I didn't say it would work.

              IOW his least worst chance, actually.

  6. Howard Sway Silver badge

    what that "drastic action" may be is unknown

    I suspect it may involve stamping his feet whilst screaming loudly that it's not fair, when he gets sued for the $1 billion that he agreed to pay in a contract he voluntarily signed. And probably some horseshit about "biased judges" when they confirm that contract law and legal precedent apply to him too, no matter how rich he is.

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: what that "drastic action" may be is unknown

      This is a man with what amounts to a missile company. Would a near EoL battery pack make a reasonable warhead?

      1. vtcodger Silver badge

        Re: what that "drastic action" may be is unknown

        "Would a near EoL battery pack make a reasonable warhead?"

        I don't think you can count on a Tesla battery pack exploding on impact. They sometimes do of course, but until the kinks are ironed out, I think a more conventional explosive might be a better choice.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: what that "drastic action" may be is unknown

          Even a marble dropped from orbit can have one heck of an impact if it hits the ground...

          1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

            Re: what that "drastic action" may be is unknown

            Can you actually drop a marble from orbit? It would just keep going round with you.

            1. Stoneshop
              Boffin

              Re: what that "drastic action" may be is unknown

              It would just keep going round with you.

              Only if you have the correct orbital speed for your altitude AND you just stick your hand out the window letting go of the marble without altering its speed in any way. Even then, given atmospheric drag (which is still present several 100km up), the marble will gradually lose speed which will cause it to undergo orbital decay, ultimately falling to earth and at least partly burn up.

            2. MachDiamond Silver badge

              Re: what that "drastic action" may be is unknown

              "Can you actually drop a marble from orbit?"

              Yes, use a nice sized steely and fasten a long piece of copper wire to it. The problem is it would be impossible to aim. From LEO, the long wire interacts with the Earth's magnetic field and it induces drag. I couldn't say if the marble would melt and make pretty lights or if it would slow down enough to survive passing through the atmosphere.

          2. Stoneshop
            Boffin

            Re: what that "drastic action" may be is unknown

            Even a marble dropped from orbit can have one heck of an impact if it hits the ground...

            But by and large it wouldn't.

            Space rocks have to be a fair bit bigger than a marble if they would have to have a marble-sized remnant hitting the earth; most of it will burn up. If you start with a marble there may be several dust specs arriving at altitude zero, but I guess you' agree that their impact wouldn't be particularly impressive.

            I guess that if you threw a marble out of the ISS its entry speed may be low enough that less of it will burn up compared to an honest marble-sized meteoroid before the remnant(s) hits the earth, but it will still be partly vapourised.

            1. John D'oh!

              Re: what that "drastic action" may be is unknown

              "Space rocks have to be a fair bit bigger than a marble..."

              What about a dobber?

            2. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

              Re: what that "drastic action" may be is unknown

              pace rocks have to be a fair bit bigger than a marble if they would have to have a marble-sized remnant hitting the earth

              This is true. Even an anvil wouldn't do much damage on impact since there would be little left.

              A nicely-shaped penetrator made out of tungsten, that's a different matter..

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: what that "drastic action" may be is unknown

          It would make a good replacement for a napalm bomb though.

        3. MachDiamond Silver badge

          Re: what that "drastic action" may be is unknown

          "I think a more conventional explosive might be a better choice."

          Something like 2,400t (US) of LoX and CH4 from a Starship that doesn't light its engines after the first stage cuts off? If they manage to mix well before impact, the detonation would be measured in Kt.

      2. John D'oh!

        Re: what that "drastic action" may be is unknown

        "Would a near EoL battery pack make a reasonable warhead?"

        A brand new fully charged one would have more stored energy.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    He was never going to buy it

    His intention was never to buy Twitter.

    It was to have a reason to cash in on his ridiculously over-valued Tesla stock.

    He's a conman and a liar.

    And Musk is not worth $200 billion.

    Tesla stock will collapse at some point, as all of these over-inflated, over-valued stocks do eventually.

    1. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

      Re: He was never going to buy it

      I think he intended to make the purchase when he was nominally worth $240B but when he announced he intended to restore Trump's account Twitter and Tesla shares took a dive. Here comes round two. He won't be nominally worth $200B for long.

    2. MachDiamond Silver badge

      Re: He was never going to buy it

      "It was to have a reason to cash in on his ridiculously over-valued Tesla stock."

      He needed cash to exercise Tesla options he had that would have expired and the price per share was way up past stupid. I'm not sure if the option price was as low as some people posted but I'm sure it was quite a spread. Given how much the stock price increased, he needed to pay a bunch in taxes and paying taxes at that level is good for even more PR spin, so why not? I don't think that the options have expired yet, so he might be holding off on buying more Tesla stock until the price drops more or he's up against the deadline.

  8. Tron Silver badge

    Life's a twitch.

    How many users are on Twitter? Lots. Including many world leaders. Most of them tweet like bots, so it is impossible to get an accurate figure. There are lots of cats too, posting cute videos of themselves, which is popular Web 2.0 content.

    Essentially Twitter is a news and announcements site and functions better than Facebook and Reuters at it. There is plenty you can add on. Chinese netizens proved to be adept at monetising their own social media sites until Xi decided to take them down in the name of communist purity. You could do that with Twitter and skim a % off everything. Words of warning: It is unwise to buy any tech entity when it is mature - there are reasons for the popular appeal of young trophy apps. Twitter users are used to getting everything for free. Requesting they open their wallets and purses may be a step too far on the possibility scale, even for Musk. And he would be buying a star topology service with high bandwidth costs, high storage costs and oversight issues. You could spend a lot less money on a start up operating as a distributed service - tiny bandwidth and storage costs and no oversight issues - and cash in big time as it growed and growed, possibly to replace Twitter.

    Musk is rich enough to lose a billion and pay it in 1c coins on a sponsored livestream for good measure. This has cost Twitter a whole lot more. Next time you are approached by a rich person promising sacks of lovely cash, hide in your safe space and call Deputy Dawg.

    As for the 'drastic action' - perhaps he is going to break into song.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Life's a twitch.

      "Next time you are approached by a rich person promising sacks of lovely cash, hide in your safe space and call Deputy Dawg."

      The board originally rebuffed Elon but he kept pushing and stating that the shareholders should be deciding. So the board just gave Elon what he wanted....to let the shareholders decide. If you look at the stock price, it is a payday for the shareholders as Twitter would probably never see $54.20 to begin with.

    2. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

      Re: Life's a twitch.

      There are lots of cats too, posting cute videos of themselves

      My cats don't use twitter - it's *far* too much effort. And there are not many Koi there for them to eat..

      (My wife managed to prevent our youngest cat carrying off and eating one of the koi from the pond yesterday.. The cat is still giving her evil looks.)

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Life's a twitch.

      "Functions better at it?"

      Not if you tried Twitter early on and found the web UI to be such a bloated and inefficient pig that your browser would freeze every 5 minutes and abandoned the "platform" as a piece of CRAP before it even was "big."

      It still doesn't function efficiently. It's lousy software compared to other web platforms out there.

  9. lglethal Silver badge
    Go

    Surprisingly honest wording from Twitter

    "We believe this agreement is in the best interest of all shareholders. "

    Notice - Shareholders - not Stakeholders. The only people who will benefit from this deal going through are the current shareholders who will get way more cash from selling their Shares to Musky then they ever could have hoped to get in normal operation. Since probably most of the management hold Shares, it's not really a wonder that they are so keen.

    Everyone else - workers at Twitter, Users, corporations that use Twitter for marketing, etc., oh they're screwed if the deal goes through, but at least the Shareholders got rich(er), so you know that's all that matters...

    1. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

      Re: Surprisingly honest wording from Twitter

      A batch of workers left when this deal was signed. A batch more will go if Musk takes charge. Twitter have reduced the number of staff they employ for hiring new staff. Musk has already worked out that even if his original plans for Twitter had made any sense he would have difficulty getting them implemented.

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Surprisingly honest wording from Twitter

        Yup, the workers will get screwed.

        As for the users & corporates, they'll go elsewhere. They were getting a freebie anyway. Maybe they'll revive MySpace or GeoCities.

        1. Stoneshop
          Facepalm

          Re: Surprisingly honest wording from Twitter

          They were getting a freebie anyway

          If you're not paying for a product it's you that's the product.

        2. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

          Re: Surprisingly honest wording from Twitter

          Actually, GeoCities is old enough now that a revival might work for a while, out of a combination of nostalgia and hipster retro vogue.

          MySpace would be tougher, I think, because the cultural moment when hideous DIY graphic design was a sign of outsider-art credibility is probably gone. And a new MySpace that didn't permit, even cultivate, that aesthetic would be dismissed as a cheap remake.

  10. JimC

    BBC reporting Musk's bid is ended.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62102821

    "The billionaire businessman had asked for evidence to back the company's assertion that spam bot accounts make up less than 5% of its total users."

    "In a letter, Mr Musk's lawyer said Twitter had failed or refused to provide this information."

    Go get the popcorn. This will enrich some lawyers for a few years. A good few years bearing in mind the apparent disfunctionality of US civil law.

    1. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

      Re: BBC reporting Musk's bid is ended.

      That is shitty reporting from the BBC. I thought you had been cherry picking the quotes so I read the article. They are only quoting Musk. That specific 5% is Musk deliberately misquoting Twitter. The actual quote from Twitter's filings is "less than 5% of its first-quarter monetizable daily active users were made of bots."

      Twitter sells adverts based on the number of monetizable daily active users. It arrives at this number by filtering out a large number of bots some of which provide interesting tweets, but none of which use the user interface or see adverts. Twitter says that the number of users that it claims see adverts is includes less than 5% bots.

      Any journalist capable of minimal fact checking would have spotted Musk's malicious misquote. The judge in Delaware is going to find out really fast too. I used to expect better from the BBC.

      1. nobody who matters Bronze badge

        Re: BBC reporting Musk's bid is ended.

        Shitty reporting is all you will get from the BBC nowadays.

        1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: BBC reporting Musk's bid is ended.

          Not entirely. You also get a faceful of unwanted and pointless solicitations to log in for entirely unspecified benefits.

          1. Steve K

            Re: BBC reporting Musk's bid is ended.

            “Maybe Later”

          2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

            Re: BBC reporting Musk's bid is ended.

            ...and for weird reason of "going digital", they keep pushing their "Just tell your smart speaker to..." mantra.

          3. MachDiamond Silver badge

            Re: BBC reporting Musk's bid is ended.

            "You also get a faceful of unwanted and pointless solicitations to log in for entirely unspecified benefits."

            Do you think they'll tell you what benefits THEY GET when you log in?

      2. Sixtiesplastictrektableware

        Re: BBC reporting Musk's bid is ended.

        Gotta say for the record, I still get a bunch of news & views not covered in NorthAm but touched upon in the Beeb (first time I ever called it that. too much time here?).

        Any shortcomings on the part of the BBC I make up for with Spitting Image.

      3. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: BBC reporting Musk's bid is ended.

        The actual quote from Twitter's filings is "less than 5% of its first-quarter monetizable daily active users were made of bots."

        You are correct in that that is what Twitters answer was. Musks argument appears to be that it doesn't answer the question asked of them.

        "How many Twitter accounts are bots?"

        "Well, if we take the total number of accounts, discard a load of them for $reasons, then take a tiny sample of 100, we reckon there might be less than 5% bots" I don't know about you, but if working with a sample of only 100, shouldn't the answer be an integer of 1,2,3 or 4 if it's "less than 5%", even when multiplying up by 100's of millions accounts to project the actual numbers? If the sample is 100, then you can't have one account being partially a bot. Yeah, I don't do stats :-)

      4. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

        Re: BBC reporting Musk's bid is ended.

        I used to expect better from the BBC.

        The BBCs technical coverage (IT, medical etc etc) has always been really poor (although good when compared to some of their competitors). Which is what happens when even their 'specialist' reporters (RC-J - I'm looking at you) don't seem to have a clue what they are talking about and seem to mostly just regurgitate press briefings..

        And when they have stand-in generalist reporters doing technical segments it gets worse.

  11. Kanhef

    Next shareholder meeting should be interesting

    The Twitter Board was very quick to agree to the sale, without considering if Muskrat was approaching it in good faith or not. With the shareholders not only losing out on a nice payout, but also seeing this fiasco tank the value of their shares, they could be motivated to replace most of the current board members.

    1. mattaw2001

      Re: Next shareholder meeting should be interesting

      Actually the board tried to poison the shareholding to block him, but the larger shareholders threatened to sue the board for not selling Twitter at high price. It's an interesting story - I recommend the corporate lawyer HoegLaw's YouTube playlist on it.

    2. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

      Re: Next shareholder meeting should be interesting

      The board and share holders were clearly aware they were selling a pig in a poke. The board exploited Musk's haste to get a specific performance clause to up the payout beyond $1B and a due diligence waiver to hog tie Musk's defence in the inevitable litigation. If I were a share holder I would be impressed by how well the board had maximised the value of my shares. As a cherry on top, the board got Musk to sign a clause about not trash talking Twitter on Twitter. It was obvious that once Musk spotted he was penned in his immediate response would be to squeal. Twitter's lawyers will argue that any reduction in share value is a result of Musk's tweets.

      Somehow Musk's lawyers were able to get him to stay off Twitter for 9 days. He has come back with a photo of him meeting with Pope Francis. The only way this could get stranger would be to announce a coal rolling option for Teslas.

      1. MachDiamond Silver badge

        Re: Next shareholder meeting should be interesting

        "The board exploited Musk's haste"

        What? Elon made his first, best and final offer. He backed out of taking a seat on the board. He could have demanded more due diligence but didn't which is far below a rookie mistake. Elon is known for his bravado so what the hell. Get his signature on a contract with a notary present and feed him all the rope he whinges for. See what happens.

    3. MachDiamond Silver badge

      Re: Next shareholder meeting should be interesting

      "The Twitter Board was very quick to agree to the sale, without considering if Muskrat was approaching it in good faith or not."

      They got a signature on a contract. There isn't any worrying about the fate of Twitter, only how well the stockholders do.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    A bird in the hand

    Just goes to show that twits shouldn’t be in charge of anything,

  13. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
    1. nobody who matters Bronze badge

      Re: It's Off!

      This news has already been posted on this thread more than 4 hours earlier (twice!) ;)

    2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: It's Off!

      "Bar the lawsuits"

      IOW it's only just getting going.

  14. Danny 2

    Not going to Mars, going for a Mars bar

    Good name in man and woman, dear my lord, Is the immediate jewel of their souls: Who steals my purse steals trash; 'tis something, nothing; 'Twas mine, 'tis his, and has been slave to thousands: But he that filches from me my good name robs me of that which not enriches him and makes me poor indeed.

  15. chivo243 Silver badge
    Angel

    He'll shake it off...

    If he has 200 quatloos, and it costs him one quatloo to be free of the deal, he'll walk away. I've tried not to follow his trails and tribulations, but I get the feeling he's a binary decision maker, all or nothing 1 or 0.

    Making the popcorn now. Show starts at 11! Or perhaps 10!

  16. Plest Silver badge

    Twitter and it's ilk are cancer on humanity

    Twitter only cares about promoting whatever political agenda they're being paid to promote this week. Poeple think Twitter is just a free message service, well all that influcence and infrastructure they use needs to be paid for, that comes from a lot of dirty money pouring in from our betters, those pulling the strings of the great and the good.

    A curse on Musk ( a rather pathetic and immature man ) and curse on Twitter and their polically paid and affilated ilk, the quicker humanity frees itself of social media platforms, the better it will be.

  17. Potemkine! Silver badge

    Do you know what "nemesis" means?

    A righteous infliction of retribution manifested by an appropriate agent.

    Those billionaires believe they can do everything. They believe they are above laws (and most of the times are) and can fuck anyone without having to pay the price for it. But from time to time, it doesn't happen so well, and they are bring back down to Earth.

    I will really enjoy my popcorn this time.

    1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

      Re: Do you know what "nemesis" means?

      Nemesis == a punishment from the gods for the sin of hubris (deadly pride that challenges the gods)

      According to the ancient Greeks anyway.

  18. codejunky Silver badge

    Hmm

    There is some amusement that twitter was kicking and screaming not to sell and now kicking and screaming to sell. While I dont use twitter I do agree with bringing back free speech where it has been stomped on.

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