back to article Wi-Fi hotspots and Windows on Arm broken by Microsoft's latest patches

Microsoft's latest set of Windows patches are causing problems for users. Windows 10 and 11 are affected, with both experiencing similar issues (although the latter seems to be suffering a little more). KB5014697, released on June 14 for Windows 11, addresses a number of issues, but the known issues list has also been growing …

  1. jeff_w87


    Does MS even test this crap before they push it out to their users any more? Maybe it's time for users to engage them with a class action lawsuit for damages suffered for hours lost having to fix what what should have been tested properly before being pushed. You've also got the issue that since most all patches are included in one big patch instead of a bunch of little ones that your machine is left vulnerable to additional issues that could impact the security of your network and home or business resulting in, potentially, other damages that could be sued for.

    1. Mike 137 Silver badge

      Re: Testing?

      "Maybe it's time for users to engage them with a class action lawsuit"

      Unfortunately you've signed away your right to do this by accepting the T&Cs. This is the beauty of software (and software service) licenses. You've agreed that the product doesn't even have to work.

      I've been recommending formal liability (as is already the case for products in most jurisdictions) for years, but sadly software is not considered a product. It's a license to make use of something apparently quite tenuously defined (probably 'intellectual property').

      1. Terry 6 Silver badge

        Re: Testing?

        This sued to be known as the "bus ticket" contract. In the days of paper tickets. The Terms and Conditions (referenced on the back) essentially said that in return for buying a ticket they'd make their best endeavour t take you somewhere at some time.

        1. Uncle Ron

          Re: Testing?

          Yeah, sure. But what should be tested is the presence or absence of "BEST ENDEAVOUR. Huh?

      2. MrDamage Silver badge

        Re: Testing?

        When do the T&Cs appear, before or after point of purchase? If it's after, then the T&Cs are null and void in most legislations around the world.

        1. WonkoTheSane

          Re: Testing?

          Back when we had to buy an OS on physical media, the T&Cs were inside the shrink-wrapped box.

          1. MrDamage Silver badge

            Re: Testing?

            Win98 I think was the last version of Windows that had that. I can't recall them "despoiling" the prettiness of the XP box with legalese.

      3. Uncle Ron

        Re: Testing?

        It is a time-honored legal position in the US, tested by multiple legal proceedings, that you CANNOT "sign away your rights." Not sure it has ever been tested in the software industry, but somebody should test this against the OS monopoly that is Microsoft, huh?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Testing?

          Really? How do so many US employers manage to have people sign away their right to a trial, then? Arbitration paid for by the employer is now a de facto rule over there.

          1. eldakka

            Re: Testing?

            > How do so many US employers manage to have people sign away their right to a trial, then?

            Because there is no right to civil trial. The right to trial only applies to criminal charges, not civil disputes. Employment disputes are mostly in the civil realm (with exceptions for actual law breaking, which would be taken up by the state in a criminal trial) as contract disputes.

        2. Mike 137 Silver badge

          Re: Testing?

          "somebody should test this against the OS monopoly that is Microsoft"

          and go bankrupt before the case concludes. A standard ploy used by behemoths when faced with law suits by little people is simply to draw the case out until the complainant either walks away or runs out of cash. And that's supposing you could afford the counsel willing to take on such an apparently lost cause in the first place.

          The only way to curb abuses by transnational corporations is for all nations to collaborate in creating legislation that exercises the necessary control. it started to happen with data protection (GDPR and national legislation based on it) but seems already to be losing impetus, and has only been achieved in the tech space in such obvious domains as aviation safety (where folks actually die if we get it wrong). Until the hazard level rises to such heights, there's no drive to make the huge effort required, with all its political implications.

        3. that one in the corner Silver badge

          Re: Testing?

          But which rights would you be signing away?

          You don't have a right to be able to run Excel, you are being offered the chance to give it a go and if it does work, yay for you.

          The Ts&Cs are more concerned with telling you what you mustn't think you can do with Windows (so no more using it on a medical device which is being used to drill for oil in a nuclear powered digger).

          Even if you go down the route of merchantability and "a reasonable person would expect to be able to" print a letter on A4 paper, the obvious reply is "What, haven't you been reading the support forums? Nobody can get that to work!".

      4. eldakka

        Re: Testing?

        > Unfortunately you've signed away your right to do this by accepting the T&Cs.

        That depends on the laws of the country you are in. For starters, any T&Cs have to be within the law. Furthermore, many countries have strong consumer laws that require things like 'merchantability' of sold products - that is, they do what they are advertised as doing - irrespective of what the T&Cs claim.

        1. Mike 137 Silver badge

          Re: Testing?

          "strong consumer laws that require things like 'merchantability' of sold products"

          Sadly, software is in many jurisdictions not a 'sold product' but licensed use of intellectual property, and that's the second biggest barrier to obtaining redress. The first biggest barrier is the inordinate expense of exercising your right against a multinational behemoth, even supposing you actually have the right.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Testing?

            "Sadly, software is in many jurisdictions not a 'sold product' but licensed use of intellectual property"

            That's true for the US (a country which, after all, invented the legal idiocy of shrink wrap licenses), but in most of Europe (i.e., the EU and even many non-EU countries) software sales are sales of goods, and any T&Cs that say otherwise are void (and that is if the T&Cs itself are legally binding, which they are only if the buyer was made aware of them before closing the contract).

            But yes, Americans are pretty much screwed.

      5. GiantKiwi

        Re: Testing?

        Luckily for us, implied contracts are not legally binding.

    2. ShadowSystems

      Re: Testing?

      "The Microsoft Bork Fairy" is evidently in charge of their impotent QA department & seems to enjoy the full-auto-fire setting on that combat shotgun they use to shoot themselves in the feet.

      A fix that breaks the networking capability of a computer, the "fix" is to turn off that bit of the OS, and then ... download a fix how? "Get it from a different machine" is not an option for anyone not graced with the disposable income to afford multiple machines. "Roll back our fuckup" is also not a great look for MS, but then it's merely a reflection of the drooling, shambling, brain dead zombie that is Microsoft. This coming from a once proud Windows fanboy, now pissed off Windows hater. =-|

      1. TiredNConfused80

        Re: Testing?

        Unless I've misread it (quite possible) I think it's the ability for the PC to turn itself into a WiFi hotspot, not the ability for it to join a WiFi network that is broken.

      2. EnviableOne

        Re: Testing?

        they dont have a QA department, they cost too much...

        They should be upfront about it all, rename the company to Beta, and start referring to the plebians who licence their not-so-intellectual property as Testers rather than customers.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "test this crap before they push it out to their users"

      Pushing out to their users is actually the test - the actual leadership of Microsoft has an utter contempt for users that are just guinea pigs for Azure.

    4. keithpeter Silver badge

      Re: Testing?

      Does MS even test this crap before they push it out to their users any more?

      Basically, no.

      I gather that the brunt of the Softie redundancies some years ago was borne by the QA and testing functions within Redmond.

    5. chivo243 Silver badge

      Re: Testing?

      Life with M$? You became an Alpha tester long ago... We should be so lucky to see a Beta version first. Am I wrong??

    6. PRR Bronze badge

      Re: Testing?

      > Does MS even test this crap before they push it out to their users any more?


      Most Frequently Asked Question of the 21st century.


      > There is no evidence for Microsoft ever having employed pro code writers.

      There have been several excellent programmers employed at MS. They get noticed and promoted to VP or Chief Architect or CEO ASAP.

    7. Vince

      Re: Testing?

      No… they got rid of the QA team years ago. And it’s very obvious.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    WTF has .NET *anything* have to do with WiFi ?

    Sorry it makes fuck all sense.

    1. stiine Silver badge

      Re: WTF has .NET *anything* have to do with WiFi ?

      .NET is the root of all evil and most of what Microsoft writes links to the .NET runtime. This is especially troubling when its Defender...

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: WTF has .NET *anything* have to do with WiFi ?

      .NET is the M$ take on java. Complete with all the problems.

      1. Nick Ryan Silver badge

        Re: WTF has .NET *anything* have to do with WiFi ?

        The other day I had to try and clear out the abomination that is the WinSXS directory. After all, why not have a windows directory that consists of 90% duplicate copies of everything .NET related and make it utterly uncleanable? The server just gave up with the cleaning process after a couple of days.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I'm protected from all this because KB5014697 fails to even install on my machine. ("Install error - 0x80073701")

    Testing.... they must have heard of it !!

    1. ITMA Silver badge

      "I'm protected from all this because KB5014697 fails to even install on my machine."

      As the guy in Life of Brian puts it so succinctly:

      "Oh you lucky bastard!"

      1. EricB123 Bronze badge

        "Oh you lucky bastard!"

        Always look on the bright side of life....

  4. Gene Cash Silver badge

    "the patch contains a number of security updates as well as the usual raft of bug fixing"

    How about putting security fixes in the goddamned security updates and bug fixes in the goddamned bug updates?

    That way the security gate isn't wide open if a bugfix goes TITSUP.

    Icon for my feelings right now...

    Edit: and granted Linux does the same thing. For security updates, you get the latest version of the app, even if they decided to completely screw up the functionality. (Looking at you, Mozilla...)

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "the patch contains a number of security updates as well as the usual raft of bug fixing"

      If the fixes go in the same binary, they're bound to be delivered in the same package at some point.

    2. Marjolica

      Re: "the patch contains a number of security updates as well as the usual raft of bug fixing"

      For those of us who want a bit more stability Firefox /do/ provide Firefox-esr, so the monthly updates are just security fixes and they only screw over the interfaces etc. once a year.

      Available on all platforms, not just Linux.

  5. Will Godfrey Silver badge

    In other news

    Dog bites man

    1. ITMA Silver badge

      Re: In other news

      On the subject of dogs, men and biting.....

      Colin Tucker put it very well in the first paragraph of Chapter 1 of his book "How to drive a nuclear reactor":

      "I've heard it said that a modern nuclear power station could be operated by one man and a dog. The man would be there to feed the dog, and the dog would be there to bite the man if he touched any of the controls".

      I think Microsoft need such a dog in Microsoft's "new features" division.


      1. JD 2

        Re: In other news

        which leads us nicely to their internal 'dogfood' versions which have "already undergone multiple quality assurance checks"

        "Dogfood is the final check to a wider audience before we release to the public"

        poor doggy

        1. that one in the corner Silver badge

          Re: In other news

          > Poor doggy

          They only use carefully selected Labradors, because the poor sods are genetically unable to *not* eat anything put in front of them.

          Look, it's wagging it's tail, this batch is good enough to be sent out. QA all done.

  6. ITMA Silver badge

    Quick Poll

    Ok hands up all those are in the least bit surprised by this.

    Will the guy at the back holding up a mannequins arm put it down. That doesn't count.

  7. Pascal Monett Silver badge
    Thumb Down


    Another brilliant justification for AutoPatch, right SatNad ?

  8. chivo243 Silver badge

    Not surprised...

    Glad my Windoze support ends at my own lappy... Which I use only to manage my UPS.

    1. ITMA Silver badge

      Re: Not surprised...

      Windows support starts and ends with the sash cord - until it breaks...Then windows are a right bugger to open LOL

  9. jvf

    Where have all the coders gone?

    Once again, I have to ask: Is this sh*t way too complicated now or have all the pro code writers been retired (shoved out the door) and replaced by incompetent idiots?

    1. Adrian 4

      Re: Where have all the coders gone?

      There is no evidence for Microsoft ever having employed pro code writers.

  10. Jan K.

    It's déjà vu all over again...

    Wait... haven't I posted that before?

    1. Anonymous Coward

      What do the voices in your SO's head tell you?

  11. Uncle Ron

    I Wonder

    I wonder if even some of these "patches" or "updates" that broke things were actually aimed at fixing or updating MS's ability to collect data, monitor usage, protect MS IP, move MS strategic objectives, or anything that benefits MS and not anything that actually benefits the user. I can't wait to move to Linux.

  12. steviebuk Silver badge

    And here's

    The reason we don't what their automatic update shit system.

  13. Piro Silver badge

    Not just Wifi hotspot!!

    It breaks RRAS routing functionality, to an interesting degree.

    If you have two network cards, one external and one internal, it will now think both of them have internet connectivity, screwing up routing big time.

    I wasted hours yesterday trying to figure out what the hell happened to a particular server.

    Uninstall the update, everything worked again.

    1. Nick Ryan Silver badge

      Re: Not just Wifi hotspot!!

      Not that the priority order of multiple network connections wasn't utterly fubar'd in the first place of course. Specify the route cost? Windows will ignore it when it feels like it. Give the network connections a specific priority order? Windows will change this on next boot.

  14. Tubz Silver badge

    Microsoft now want you to trust them to Autopatch your computer estate, what could go wrong ?

  15. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge
    Thumb Down

    Move along there - Nothing new to see

    Borkzilla strikes again.

  16. Bobbypoo

    Winderz Updates

    I used to be an network admin for 20 years for a small company. The company eventually went global with offices in the UK, Ecuador, Australia, Brazil. All of our servers, workstations, and laptops were Windows. Windows was terrible from 2010 on. Mostly due to bad patches. I used mint Linux at home on my laptop. I could do remote work on all my Windows servers etc, no problem. I would reboot all my servers on every Friday so they would stay working. Anyway, I retired in 2018. After one month, I got rid of all my Windows laptops, or converted them to Linux, replaced everything with Apple products. 5 iPads of various flavors, new MacBook Pro, a new mini Mac. All work flawlessly. Updates don’t break anything, wife likes them.

    I still do some Windows support for friends. But no more Windows for me and I encourage people to switch to Apple or Linux. Windows was good for me. Provided job security. I stayed with one company. I was the only netadmin. It is about time Microsoft installed their AutoCrash app. You won’t have to decide what update to crash your servers.

  17. Coastal cutie

    Borked themselves?

    Judging by the state of Office 365 today, Microsoft appear to have managed to break their own stuff as well as everyone elses

    1. Nick Ryan Silver badge

      Re: Borked themselves?

      It's the best part about Microsoft 365... knowing that Microsoft have to suck on their own intentional, incompetently slung together hell-hole that is Microsoft Exchange Server.

  18. Fred Goldstein

    Works best if you disable auto update

    I use Windows as it supports the applications I need, and as a desktop OS it is reasonably well behaved most of the time. I am not a coder so all of the coder-friendly spooge in Linux frankly doesn't interest me, and I'm not running a server where Linux and other OSs are better behaved. Lots of people are like me in that regard.

    The way I deal with this is to completely disable automatic updates (Windows 10 Pro) using group policy editor. Then after reading about what does and doesn't break, every few months I let it catch up with an update that has been out for at least a couple of weeks. They apparently laid off their QA team a couple of years go and are using auto-update as a cheap form of QC, so delaying updates is almost necessary for keeping a stable system. I also still have a Windows 7 machine for personal use and its lack of updates usually keeps it stable. Nobody has hacked it behind my firewall and I am pretty careful about what I install on it or what mail attachments I open (not usually any on that machine).

    It sure would be nice if the Windows 10/11 update function worked like Windows 7's, where you could always select which ones you wanted to install and which ones you wanted to hide, and it was not trying to auto-install it and crash the work you left running overnight in the process.

  19. EnviableOne

    Known Issue Rollbacks

    This little-known feature is a marvel of their self-doubt

    built into the code for every update is an if statement,

    if this registry entry is present "we borked it" so revert to the old code.

    if it is borked enough for enough people they let you know the entry to un bork

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