SpiralLinux: Anonymous creator of GeckoLinux puts out new Debian remix

SpiralLinux is the result of the creator of GeckoLinux turning their attention to Debian – with an interesting outcome. Some Linux distros have many remixes and respins, while some have very few. For example, there are multiple downstream variants of Debian and Ubuntu, but very few of Fedora. The Reg FOSS desk is only aware of …

[MacroRodent]

Just a better installer?

Interesting. If I understood correctly, the distribution (either SpiralLinux or GeckoLinux) primarily consists of a better (or at least more user-friendly) installer, and the rest is like in the base? Not a bad idea. We don't really need more separate distributions, unless they implement something really new (most don't).

[wolfetone]

Re: Just a better installer?

Sort of, it does more configuration to make it easier for you to get going with it than having to faff around with non-free repos etc.

I think it serves as a great gateway drug to Debian as a whole, well worth of a photo of a pint.

[Will Godfrey]

Re: Just a better installer?

"gateway drug to Debian"

Great way to put it. I've been 'addicted' for years!

[Liam Proven]

Re: Just a better installer?

[Author here]

I have to quote Dr Ben Goldacre: "I think you'll find it's a little bit more complicated than that."

It's not _just_ an installer atop the Debian Stable base. It includes packages from multiple Debian repos, including nonfree and some from unstable where this is necessary for essential functionality.

I also went into some detail in the Fedora 36 article (https://www.theregister.com/2022/05/12/fedora_36_released/) on the difficulties of adding full snapshot support on Btrfs to a distro that does not enable this. I mentioned that while enabling snapshot support is not trivial, it is doable:

https://fedoramagazine.org/btrfs-snapshots-backup-incremental/

... but I also then mentioned that this will not by default include kernels in the snapshots:

https://sysguides.com/install-fedora-35-with-snapper/

Spiral has taken those extra steps, adding openSUSE-style snapshot support to Debian, *including* the kernel and making it possible to boot from older snapshots.

That is hard to do. AIUI it involved some additional Python scripts, which are not part of the distro, but which do not require ongoing maintenance.

As the SpiralLinux webpage says: the distro will continue to be usable, and upgradable, even if the maintainer goes under a bus.

[gregzeng]

Flatpak has varying degrees of completion. My favourite backup program is often missing, Free File Sync.

Similarly BTRFS has varying degrees of additional utilities. Grub customizer has great trouble recognizing BTRFS.

[pavel.petrman]

Couple of notes

Re the scary warning from Debian about the non-free firmware and drivers: at least one knows what's going on. This shouldn't be a reason for a jump to a minor obscure distribution, which itself is per definition unofficial from Debian's point of view. Debian itself is pretty conservative and on the slower part of the update spectrum, and having another (up/down) stream node in the update and community support pipeline seems a price bit too high, should one choose this distribution over Debian solely because of the warnings.

Re live installers: last time I used one of those on Ubuntu, I followed the spirit of "try it out first, install when happy", and to my mild annoyment I got a clean install sans all the packages I installed in the live mode. Makes sense from the system point of view but not from the user's. I personally don't find this behaviour optimal, especially if the raison d'etre of the distribution is to be more user friendly than the original Debian (before you hurry to the downvote button, please read again the "I personally").

I'm not much of a Ubuntu guy, but all pros of the SpiralLinux mentioned in the article seem to be present on Ubuntu, too: non-free packages, non-free firmware and drivers, btrfs, live installer. Systemd is not mentioned, so I'd expect one gets a healthy dose of that, too. Ubuntu doesn't support Flatpack but explain why and offer alternatives.

So why choose SpiralLinux over Ubuntu? One thing comes to mind and not an unimportatn at that: SpiralLinux at least says it's a Linux distribution.

[Liam Proven]

Re: Couple of notes

[Author here]

I cannot speak for anyone else, obviously.

But some people find the additions and changes that Ubuntu makes to Debian to be too much for them.

Notably, some people don't want Snap support. Others do not like the PPA feature.

If you read the comments to almost any piece I have written on new versions of Ubuntu or Mint, you will see comments from Ubuntu sceptics talking about what they do not like about the OS.

For a lot of people, upstream Debian contains all that they want and need. However, it can be significantly tricky to install Debian on some hardware, and even using the nonfree ISO images, this won't get you things like Snapper.

SpiralLinux, ISTM, is a good solid honest attempt to bring across as many of the bells and whistles from other Linux distros to Debian, without adding any new code or non-Debian components to the distro.

Secondarily, it also adds things that Ubuntu itself does not have, such as snapshots and rollback. Ubuntu is still working on ZFS support which should deliver this in time, but it's not there yet. Secondly, even when it is there, assuming that Ubuntu ever delivers this, some people will not want ZFS because ZFS is not GPL.

If someone knows enough about a few different distros to _not_ want Ubuntu, but to prefer its upstream origin, but doesn't want to go to a lot of manual effort to get it *just so*, this is a good option.

[Swarthy]

Re: Couple of notes

Can we sic the developer of this on Devuan? Get a nice, spiffy Debian-like OS, without all that SystemD crap, and with an easy installer, Flatpack support, etc.?

[Liam Proven]

Re: Couple of notes

Do you know, I had a similar thought myself? :-)

I think Devuan's and their goals are a little different, sadly.

I'd like to see a more polished Devuan with some different GUI on it, such as GNUstep or ROX Desktop, ready-rolled and ready to use, drivers and all.

[Will Godfrey]

Re: Couple of notes

I'm running ROX on devuan - with Openbox as the window manager.

[sb56637]

Re: Couple of notes

Hi there, SpiralLinux creator here. It's actually closer than you might think to being possible. All you would need to do is take the live-build config recipe that I publish on the SpiralLinux Github, and then use live-build on a Devuan system to build it. You would probably have to tweak a few included package names and/or configurations, but I suspect it would be relatively straightforward.

[Zolko]

FrankenDebian shootout

@Liam : thank-you for your articles about Linux distributions.

Once you're at it, would you consider a comparison of Debians and derivatives ?

- Debian

- Devuan

- MX-Linux

- SpiraLinux (didn't know that one)

- LMDE

- Ubuntu

- ...

(ideally their KDE/Plasma variants, as that's what real programmers use)

[debianista]

Re: FrankenDebian shootout

If that comparison ever gets written, please do not forget to include siduction, a hidden gem with Plasma as their recommended desktop.

[MacroRodent]

Re: FrankenDebian shootout

(ideally their KDE/Plasma variants, as that's what real programmers use)

Nah, Real Programmers use the text mode console. GUIs are for wimps.

[alisonken1]

GUIs are for wimps

Real programmers use XWindows - it allows more terminals on one screen to run the emacs computers for true multitasking.

[Liam Proven]

Re: FrankenDebian shootout

Oh my word!

Well, that will be pretty big, so it will take a long time, but it's worth consideration. Thanks for the idea!