back to article Amazon puts 'creepy' AI cameras in UK delivery vans

Amazon is installing AI-powered cameras in delivery vans to keep tabs on its drivers in the UK. The technology was first deployed, with numerous errors that reportedly denied drivers' bonuses after malfunctions, in the US. Last year, the internet giant produced a corporate video detailing how the cameras monitor drivers' …

  1. sebacoustic

    surely there needs to be a privacy shield for when the drivers pee in their water bottles?

    1. b0llchit Silver badge
      Coat

      Aren't they called pants?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Huggies?

    2. Dave314159ggggdffsdds Silver badge

      And one on the external cameras for when they shit in the bushes in someone's front garden.

      1. NoneSuch Silver badge

        I applaud this technology.

        Amazon should immediately place these AI cameras in the executive suites to monitor their daily routines and parallel their bonuses with the quality of work done. After all, what's good for the goose, etc, etc, etc.

      2. Intractable Potsherd

        @Dave3415etc

        That's a very bad joke. How did it get any upvotes?

        1. ICL1900-G3 Bronze badge

          Re: @Dave3415etc

          Agreed. Completely heartless and not even slightly amusing.

          1. Dave314159ggggdffsdds Silver badge

            Re: @Dave3415etc

            "Completely heartless and not even slightly amusing."

            Obviously it isn't amusing. It's revolting. I was not joking in any way.

        2. Dave314159ggggdffsdds Silver badge

          Re: @Dave3415etc

          It isn't a joke, and it got upvotes because others have seen it too. We are literally talking about the need for monitoring people who will shit in other people's front gardens due to the pressure of work.

        3. ChrisBedford

          Re: @Dave3415etc

          It's called *satire*

          1. Dave314159ggggdffsdds Silver badge

            Re: @Dave3415etc

            No, it isn't satire. It's a factual observation. I have repeatedly had to tell delivery drivers that if they absolutely must have a shit round here, go into the woods rather than shitting by my bins. There is a free public toilet round the corner anyway.

            1. Falmari Silver badge
              Joke

              Re: @Dave3415etc

              @Dave314159ggggdffsdds "It's a factual observation."

              I would say It's a fecal observation.

              1. The Oncoming Scorn Silver badge
                Joke

                Re: @Dave3415etc

                Shatire!

                1. Falmari Silver badge
                  Happy

                  Re: @Dave3415etc

                  @The Oncoming Scorn "Shatire!"

                  Even better love it ^

  2. KittenHuffer Silver badge
    Big Brother

    Isn't there a law ....

    .... that you can have any AI decision reviewed by human beings? In which case the footage that was used by the AI to make the decision would need to be available. And since this is not just limited to the 'bad' AI decisions I think ALL of the drivers should request ALL of the footage of their driving EVERY month that the AI is being used to make decisions concerning their pay. I'm sure it wouldn't take long before the big A decided that the cost of having to hand out exabytes of video each month would far exceed the 'savings' made by screwing their serfs out of small change.

    Obv! ------------>

    Edit: Yup, it's law in the UK! But it's under review by the UK Gummin't!

    https://www.theregister.com/2021/09/10/right_to_contest_automated_ai_uk_consult/

    1. ShadowSystems Silver badge

      Re: Isn't there a law ....

      I wonder what would happen if someone built a small box to hang over the rear view mirror such that the cameras inside the mirror could no longer see the cab, but could still see the road ahead; a RPi hooked up to play an audio/video clip loop to said cameras/mics to make the inward facing bits see only what the driver wants to be seen; with a second mirror on the box to restore safety functionality; all powered off a simple cigarette lighter adapter to keep the RPi going?

      Unplug the RPi & take the box with you just before returning to the depo, so nobody officially sees you doing it; restore the box to the mirror as soon as you're out of sight of the depo to cut off the company's ability to surveil you.

      Or am I just channeling Mission: Impossible, 007, or Q again?

      1. ThatOne Silver badge

        Re: Isn't there a law ....

        > Or am I just channeling

        You're definitely in movie land, a real life Amazon delivery person's salary wouldn't cover the box to hang over the mirror, never mind the Pi and other hardware...

    2. Dave314159ggggdffsdds Silver badge

      Re: Isn't there a law ....

      No Amazon driver in their right mind thinks they deserve to win these cases, because they all know they're terrible drivers who habitually do stuff they're told not to do. A few aren't in their right minds, of course. The rest aren't going to fight it because it's a waste of time.

      The problem isn't AI, it's the people doing deliveries and the incentives they face. This changes the incentives.

      1. Killfalcon

        Re: Isn't there a law ....

        I think you may be confusing cause and effect there - yeah, drivers do a lot of stuff they're told not to do - because they're told a lot of things that conflict, like "never break the speed limit" and "wait for the customer to answer the door" and "do your assigned deliveries in exactly 5256 seconds, using this route invented by a machine that doesn't know what roadworks are".

        Same as how the Yodel loaders get told not to throw packages, and pushed to load a truck twice as fast as you can if you do it properly.

        You can lay money that only the time taken is actually a cause for managers to act.

        So yeah, they drive a bit too fast and sometimes they make up time by sliding a "sorry we missed you" card through the door without knocking - because they'll get punished for being late, but probably won't get any trouble for just being rushed.

        This is normal for low-paid positions through society and history. They're given impossible conflicting instructions so they can be fired "for cause" whenever they get too troublesome, or too expensive, and the day-to-day concern is volume of items.

        So... in the end, I do agree with you that most won't fight this, because they know the game is rigged against them.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Isn't there a law ....

          The beauty of this camera system is of course, that Amazon can continue to push drivers to make deliveries in a set time frame, adherence to which will necessitate reckless driving, and then withhold pay due to reckless driving.

          Obviously not as much as you would if the packages weren't delivered on time, but why not reduce pay where possible, using whatever bullshit you can.

          Bezos requires your sacrifice!

          1. anothercynic Silver badge

            Re: Isn't there a law ....

            No longer Bezos. Bezos is now a mere shareholder (11% of shares). It's Jassy who is now in the driving seat and no doubt happy about this utopian move.

          2. hoola Silver badge

            Re: Isn't there a law ....

            It is also a huge databank that can be used to work on driverless deliveries.

            Companies like Amazon would be happy if the had almost no employees and it was all automated but miss the point that they do actually need customers.

            That needs people with money.......

        2. Dave314159ggggdffsdds Silver badge

          Re: Isn't there a law ....

          Did you miss what I wrote about incentives?

      2. Fr. Ted Crilly Bronze badge

        Re: Isn't there a law ....

        yeah you want to try driving near the DPD depot i live near, you'd think it was some kind of wacky races every morning around 7am...

        1. Martin-73 Silver badge

          Re: Isn't there a law ....

          Same with the DPD depot in segensworth :\ UPS must be in the same area too, it's like really fast rolling roadblock sometimes

        2. GruntyMcPugh

          Re: Isn't there a law ....

          I came here to say similar. I've not any issue with Amazon delivery drivers, but DPD drive they are in a movie car chase.

      3. HarryBl

        Re: Isn't there a law ....

        I've been with Amazon since 1995 and have never, in all that time, had a problem with any of their delivery drivers. Mind you I do smile and say 'thank you' when they make a delivery.

        1. LybsterRoy Bronze badge

          Re: Isn't there a law ....

          My wife and I have been buying things from Amazon (books to start with) roughly since there was an Amazon and we've never seen an Amazon delivery van. Used to be Royal Mail, now includes Hermes (or whatever their name is this month). Where do they deliver? Big towns/cities only?

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Isn't there a law ....

            "[...] and we've never seen an Amazon delivery van."

            I have never seen any Amazon branding on their delivery vans - even when it seems obvious that the delivery is by them. Just plain white ones - like many other delivery companies. Possibly a security feature?

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Amazon Logistics - worst of the lot ?

              In recent years in England and Wales, I've had packages and parcels show as being delivered by "Amazon Logistics". No idea who they are. The deliveries turn up in generic white vans, based dozens of miles away, often crewed by low-wage Europeans with limited local knowledge and capabilities. Yodel and Herpes at least used to have *some* local drivers.

              A workaround for this used to be delivery to an Amazon Locker at a local supermarket but although the machine is still there, it's never a usable option at time of choosing delivery.

              I've gone off Amazon quite a lot.

              1. AndrueC Silver badge
                Meh

                Re: Amazon Logistics - worst of the lot ?

                I've had a mix. Usually if it's a van it's a grey Amazon van. But a lot of stuff seems to be delivered in private vehicles (that might be what 'Amazon Logistics' is). I get the impression that people can sign up with Amazon and just drive their car to the nearest warehouse and pick up a load of parcels. Presumably those people aren't going to have to worry about cameras watching them.

            2. SImon Hobson Silver badge

              Re: Isn't there a law ....

              I have never seen any Amazon branding on their delivery vans

              That's because many (most ?) of them aren't Amazon's. They employcontract lots of self employed "man with van" operations to do the deliveries. This means they don't have employees on the books and can get away with all sorts of crap they couldn't do to an employee.

              These contractors are paid f-all per parcel, but because they are self employed contractors, the fact that they might be worked well below minimum wage isn't visible - Amazon isn't responsible for what the driver gets paid, only for what they pay the contracting business. It also means that there's zero job security - as an employee drivers would have rights, as an independent contractor they have zero rights if Amazon decides they aren't performing acceptably and doesn't renew the contract.

              Not just Amazon, a number of "carriers" also do that.

              As a side note, a couple of months back I came across a trapped Amazon driver. My wife looks after a property, and there's a lane runs past it - signed both ends as unsuitable for motor vehicles. Of course, satnav sees it as the shortest route. He had decided to back out when he saw what it was like, but then his engine quit and he was trapped - the walls prevented him getting out either side, and he had no mobile signal. I moved a couple of rocks that were stopping him rolling downhill till he could get out, and tried a jump start (he had leads with him) but it was clear the engine was buggered. I heard the jist of some of the conversations he was having with Amazon - it was clear that as far as they were concerned, not their problem (seemed like he was supposed to have breakdown cover but they weren't admitting it) and BTW you get penalised for being late with deliveries and no we won't arrange for someone else to meet you and transfer the parcels, that's your problem.

              1. MachDiamond Silver badge

                Re: Isn't there a law ....

                "They employcontract lots of self employed "man with van" operations to do the deliveries."

                It's rare they are hiring piecemeal. They hire somebody that's going to run a small fleet and let them deal with (be responsible) for making sure each route is covered everyday.

            3. MachDiamond Silver badge

              Re: Isn't there a law ....

              "I have never seen any Amazon branding on their delivery vans - even when it seems obvious that the delivery is by them. Just plain white ones - like many other delivery companies. Possibly a security feature?"

              Amazon runs their own fleet in places with a high density and lots of deliveries. The cost per delivery is very low in those areas and it's possible for them to save money over other services. In the way out of the way places they use the mails. Since the rates for shipping items through the post have some averaging, rural costs more and city center costs less, overall the pricing is extremely disparate when somebody sends something. This has heavily impacted postal systems that wind up getting a large percentage of the deliveries that cost them the most money. In the middle are the delivery contractors. Somebody thinking they're going to get rich running a small depot signs up for a franchlet, gets their set of 3-ring binders just like a Buy and Fly and goes out to buy a small fleet of white vans. They then have to hire drivers and make the economics work. From time to time Amazon sends them an addendum to go in the binders that requires them to do some new thing in the course of the business and pay for it out of what they make. Those contractors have a hard time escaping due to a fist full of loans for the vans and those vans not a good condition in very short order.

              I believe that contractors can have the vans painted in Amazon livery and receive a bit of extra money, but not many do so it might not be worth the cost. This is along with advertising that the van is loaded with packages.

              There have been a few articles on Amazon's delivery network, but very few talk about life in the trenches. Usually it's a Modern Marvels job where the focus is on how amazing it is for a bog roll to go from the factory to the warehouse to your front door at warp speed.

      4. Intractable Potsherd

        Re: Isn't there a law ....

        What is wrong with you?? Amazon drivers are amongst the safest on the roads.

    3. Howard Sway Silver badge

      Re: it's law in the UK! But it's under review by the UK Gummin't!

      I suggest we write to our MPs about this. Firstly to remind them to enforce the law, and secondly to inform them that if they scrap it, their employers (us) will be insisting that similar AI surveillance systems watch our employees (government ministers) all day to monitor whether they are working sufficiently hard, and dock their pay if the computer determines that they are not.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: it's law in the UK! But it's under review by the UK Gummin't!

        Isn't Boris in enough trouble being pictured doing things he shouldn't

        Mind you it would help remind him of things he has done but doesn't remember

        Currently prominent on BBC News...

        "Insiders tell of packed lockdown parties at No 10"

        "Staff describe bins overflowing with bottles, people sitting on each other's laps and colleagues sleeping in the office."

        1. jmch Silver badge

          Re: it's law in the UK! But it's under review by the UK Gummin't!

          "Isn't Boris in enough trouble being pictured doing things he shouldn't"

          Apparently not. It used to be that serious (and sometimes even trivial) breaches from politicians would lead to resignations. Lately they seem to have twigged that (a) if they don't resign, no-one will make them (b) whatever they did, spin and/or ignore it hard enough they'll probably get reelected anyway (c) those bothersome journalists holding them to account have less and less readers / viewers, and voters can be reached directly via InstaTokBook

          1. LybsterRoy Bronze badge

            Re: it's law in the UK! But it's under review by the UK Gummin't!

            Maybe in those days we had politicians who cared about the country not just their wage packet. Ditto for MDs or CEOs and their companies.

          2. SundogUK Silver badge

            Re: it's law in the UK! But it's under review by the UK Gummin't!

            I simply assume the journalists are lying about stuff like this. They abandoned honest objectivity years ago and they're all Labour voters now.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: it's law in the UK! But it's under review by the UK Gummin't!

              I doubt the column writers of the Express, Mail, and Telegraph are Labour voters.

              1. Dave314159ggggdffsdds Silver badge

                Re: it's law in the UK! But it's under review by the UK Gummin't!

                And you'd be wrong. Writing for those rags is just another job in journalism,a nd says nothing about the hacks' political affiliations. Same as the Guardian, etc.

                People who write for off-the-wall loony sites like The Canary or Stormfront are sometimes doing it out of political conviction, but even on those mainly it's the love of money and a willingness to say anything, anything at all, that gets them paid.

          3. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: it's law in the UK! But it's under review by the UK Gummin't!

            Well, if the "bothersome journalists" bothered to find actual news and write stories about it, rather than spouting speculation and opinion pieces, then they might have a bit more success.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: it's law in the UK! But it's under review by the UK Gummin't!

          Spend all day in the same rooms drinking tea/coffee with others and it's just work, but dare to have a glass of wine instead and it becomes a "party". Aren't there more important things to worry about, like inflation & the war in Ukraine?

          1. Jason Bloomberg

            Re: it's law in the UK! But it's under review by the UK Gummin't!

            Rather annoyingly, the 'parties' I defended as anything but - just people in the same office kicking off their shoes, having a break, then getting back to it, or winding down at the end of a long day - turned out rather different to how they had been described.

            Even then I could have some sympathy because we all bend the rules at times. But what's now being revealed by those who were there is this was wholesale taking the piss on an industrial scale.

            It's the lies I hate. Plus that 'kick it down the road in the hope everyone forgets about it or gets bored with it' plan. And anyone who won't admit 'time to move on' is just code for 'please let them get away with it'.

            Johnson is a serial lying shit and, while it seems he has got away with it; I'm not forgetting, never moving on.

          2. LybsterRoy Bronze badge

            Re: it's law in the UK! But it's under review by the UK Gummin't!

            The number of downvotes is astounding.

            I had a mad idea this morning. News sites / newspapers etc should be restricted to reporting facts (nothing wrong with investigative journalism to find out the facts) but should be banned from speculation and opinion pieces.

            My suspicion is that if the facts had been reported without all the speculation and opinions the whole partygate rubbish would have vanished.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: it's law in the UK! But it's under review by the UK Gummin't!

              News can report facts to support a legitimate bias. Issues are rarely black & white - but considering shades of grey requires nuances that many people find too difficult to contemplate.That's why it is best to sample news across the spectrum to see the different angles. As J S Mill intimated "The devil is in the detail".

            2. Jason Bloomberg

              Re: it's law in the UK! But it's under review by the UK Gummin't!

              My suspicion is that if the facts had been reported without all the speculation and opinions the whole partygate rubbish would have vanished.

              Facts. Like...

              "The event lasted for a number of hours. There was excessive alcohol consumption by some individuals. One individual was sick. There was a minor altercation between two other individuals" - Cabinet Office

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: it's law in the UK! But it's under review by the UK Gummin't!

          Currently prominent on BBC News...

          Bylined Laura "I hate the tories" Kuenssberg. Quelle surprise.

          1. Martin-73 Silver badge

            Re: it's law in the UK! But it's under review by the UK Gummin't!

            Is that the same Laura K who got them elected?

            1. LybsterRoy Bronze badge

              Re: it's law in the UK! But it's under review by the UK Gummin't!

              Its the same Laura K who is vastly overpaid for spouting nonsense every so often/

            2. Dave314159ggggdffsdds Silver badge

              Re: it's law in the UK! But it's under review by the UK Gummin't!

              ROFL. Laura K is Jeremy Corbyn? That's quite a conspiracy theory you have there.

              1. Martin-73 Silver badge

                Re: it's law in the UK! But it's under review by the UK Gummin't!

                Umm no, Corbyn was very electable, but the tabloids made him out to be a giant antisemitic stalin, and laura K bigged up the tories... were you paying attention?

          2. XSV1

            Re: it's law in the UK! But it's under review by the UK Gummin't!

            Try watching the interviews.

        4. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: it's law in the UK! But it's under review by the UK Gummin't!

          Oh "Partygate". When are we going to get "StoryGate" about journalists who are incapable of finding original stories after many months.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            As ye sow, so shall ye reap

            These "journalists" and "investigators" etc are simply following a long standing precedent set a few decades ago.

            The precedent was made very clear by Blair and his own bunch of sycophants and kleptocrats, except Blair's activities were actually on a much larger scale than the current lot. Blair's crimes included misleading Parliament, illegal war(s), unpleasant interference in the Serious Fraud Office enquiries into matters relating to BAe and Saudi Arabia. And plenty others too.

            The public and the establishment let Tony's Cronys get away with it, how can the current crop of spivs and moneychangers possibly be held to account?

            As ye sow, so shall ye reap.

            When's November 5th this year?

    4. 2+2=5 Silver badge

      Re: Isn't there a law ....

      There is also a law (in the UK) against setting driver schedules so tight that they have to break the speed limit to achieve them. The manager is the one culpable.

      1. hoola Silver badge

        Re: Isn't there a law ....

        How does that work if the "Manager" is a computer system?

        Just speculating as I would be very surprised if there was much interaction from a in setting delivery schedules & routes.

        1. Jimmy2Cows Silver badge

          Re: Isn't there a law ....

          Surely ultimate responsibility lands on whomever is setting the number of packages each driver needs to deliver. And if that is automated, whomever is responsible for configuring the parameters of that automation. Obviously I don't mean the grunt setting the parameters, I mean their management.

          There's senior management somewhere in that process, otherwise no one at Amazon knows what their systems are actually doing.

    5. hoola Silver badge

      Re: Isn't there a law ....

      There probably should be however we are in an age were for some reason it is assumed that computers and "AI" are infallible.

      That all of this stuff is based on rules that are create by humans appears to pass people by. Just look at the power outfits like Experian wield yet it is all based on automated systems.

    6. Jake Maverick

      Re: Isn't there a law ....

      and i was always taught to believe it was illegal to record people without their knowledge AND consent, but my neighbors have me under 24/7 surveillance and cameras pointing through my bedroom window?

  3. nematoad Silver badge
    Mushroom

    "Amazon did not respond to The Register's request for comment."

    I'm not surprised.

    What are they going to say?

    "We are a devious, amoral bunch of control freaks, who are so in love with technology that we are prepared to treat all our workers as machines who can be treated like shit."

    There is only one thing bigger than Bezos's ego and that is their lust for even greater profits.

    1. Dave314159ggggdffsdds Silver badge

      What are they going to say? That there is ample evidence this monitoring is needed and that the drivers need to be strongly incentivised to stop being antisocial bastards.

      Apart from being run off the road by the fuckers on a regular basis, I have frequently seen them shitting in people's front gardens. It's about time Amazon got some control over them.

      1. heyrick Silver badge

        Drive with consideration - takes extra time - penalised.

        Shit in an actual toilet - takes extra time - penalised.

        Actually deliver to more remote properties the first time around - takes extra time - penalised.

        The antisocial bastards behind the wheel are not the cause, they are the effect of the company practices. This sort of thing is only going to make it worse.

        1. Dave314159ggggdffsdds Silver badge

          So why are you disagreeing with me that it's appropriate for Amazon to change the incentives here?

          1. heyrick Silver badge

            Because "It's about time Amazon got some control over them".

            We both agree on where the problem lies (Amazon's work practices and unrealistic expectations), but we clearly disagree with how to deal with the problem.

            Fitting cameras to monitor employees will be used to say "you didn't drive at the optimal speed between here and here, you're fired" rather than "we'll accept you were three minutes behind time because you were stuck at a roadworks light". How do I know that? Because they already pee in bottles. Any company that gave a crap about their employees would understand that humans have certain biological requirements.

            Instead, this will be yet another way to squeeze squeeze squeeze.

            (I didn't downvote you, by the way)

      2. Jedit Silver badge
        FAIL

        "the drivers need to be strongly incentivised to stop being antisocial bastards"

        No, Amazon need to stop strongly incentivising their drivers to be antisocial bastards. Amazon drivers aren't shitting in gardens and driving like maniacs because they're bad employees; they're doing it because Amazon are putting them on schedules so tight that they can't even spare two minutes to visit a lavatory. In some cases, such as when there are unlisted roadworks, drivers can't even spare time to deliver their parcels.

        Now, think about this for a second. If an Amazon driver will be penalised for not meeting targets if they don't drive too fast, how does it help anything if they are also penalised if they do drive too fast?

        1. Dave314159ggggdffsdds Silver badge

          Re: "the drivers need to be strongly incentivised to stop being antisocial bastards"

          "Amazon need to stop strongly incentivising their drivers to be antisocial bastards"

          Yes. Which is what they've just done. And you're opposed to it.

          "If an Amazon driver will be penalised for not meeting targets if they don't drive too fast, how does it help anything if they are also penalised if they do drive too fast?"

          There will be video evidence that the target is wrongly set and it will be changed. Are you really this hard of thinking?

          1. gratou

            Re: "the drivers need to be strongly incentivised to stop being antisocial bastards"

            > and it will be changed

            Wow it must be so nice to live in your lala land.

      3. nematoad Silver badge

        "It's about time Amazon got some control over them."

        Good God! Are you telling me that Amazon has the capability to control their drivers bowels?

        That should make for an interesting proposal if Amazon decide to patent it!

        Ever done a delivery job?

        I'd say not, I have, and the pressure you can be put under to make time on your round can be unbelievable. So try and understand why Amazon drivers are peeing in bottles, etc.

        Hint, it's not for fun.

        1. Dave314159ggggdffsdds Silver badge

          Obviously it's not for fun. It's because those were the incentives set. Now the incentives are being changed so they don't have to do that, and people around here think it's a bad thing.

  4. b0llchit Silver badge
    Devil

    It is bad for workers' rights and awful for privacy in our country," she said.

    Drivers and workers have no rights. Amazon has Rights. Drivers and workers deserve Wrongs. They are paid what they deserve.

    The camera has shown it, they do not deserve anything. Drivers are not always at the wheel... what are they doing? That package takes only 15 seconds. Leaving the car not driving for 25 seconds? Fail! That is a £5 penalty. Looking left instead of right? That'll cost you another fiver.

    You, the slavedriver should be happy to be working for the Great Amazon! Have some respect for the Mighty! We, Amazon, are entitled to your worship and you should pay us for the privilege.

  5. Dr Scrum Master

    Bad Behaviour

    It may be creepy, but have you seen delivery van driver behaviour on the UK's roads?

    The police forces have given up patrolling and responding to anything that is (partly) covered by insurance, so nobody is worried about getting caught, and even if they are caught by the public they're not worried about the police doing anything.

    So now we have private enterprise doing something.

    1. A Non e-mouse Silver badge
      Flame

      Re: Bad Behaviour

      It may be creepy, but have you seen delivery van driver behaviour on the UK's roads?

      If you think Amazon, Hermes, etc are bad, you clearly haven't noticed Uber Eats/Deliveroo/Just Eat/etc on their electric scooters.

      1. John Robson Silver badge
        Facepalm

        Re: Bad Behaviour

        Well, one thing I haven't noticed is any deaths or serious injuries caused by people on electric scooters - unlike the thousands every year caused my drivers of motor vehicles.

        1. illiad

          Re: Bad Behaviour

          4 wheels vs 2 wheels is another argument... :O :O

        2. Billy Whiz

          Re: Bad Behaviour

          Well you haven't been looking very hard then, have you.

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Bad Behaviour

          Year ending June 2021 - 253 serious injuries, 3 deaths involving electric scooters.

          Source: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casualties-great-britain-e-scooter-factsheet-year-ending-june-2021/reported-road-casualties-great-britain-e-scooter-factsheet-year-ending-june-2021

          1. John Robson Silver badge

            Re: Bad Behaviour

            That doesn't actually look at whether they have been hit by a motorist looking at their phone or otherwise not paying attention or whether they rode the wrong way along a motorway.

      2. illiad

        Re: Bad Behaviour

        Uber Eats/Deliveroo/Just Eat/etc on their electric scooters are different, they have to get **hot food** reliably there...

    2. LDS Silver badge

      "The police forces have given up patrolling"

      So maybe it's time to put cameras into police cars to ensure they are at work and willingly to work?

      1. Dave314159ggggdffsdds Silver badge

        Re: "The police forces have given up patrolling"

        "So maybe it's time to put cameras into police cars to ensure they are at work and willingly to work?"

        That's pointless. We already know they aren't working and won't willingly work.

        1. Muscleguy Silver badge

          Re: "The police forces have given up patrolling"

          That is because they are too busy dealing with Dave/Diana who someone has been ‘mean’ to on the internet making a criminal complaint.

          1. Dave314159ggggdffsdds Silver badge

            Re: "The police forces have given up patrolling"

            The lazy sods choose make-work when they are forced to pretend to do something. Mostly, they don't even bother pretending.

            It's about time they face investigation for wasting police time.

      2. Alumoi Silver badge

        Re: "The police forces have given up patrolling"

        So maybe it's time to put cameras everywhere to ensure everybody works?

        1984, here we come!

        /s

        1. Danny 2 Silver badge

          Re: "The police forces have given up patrolling"

          I'm nominally anti-authoritarian, All Cops Are Blaise, but if we have to have police cars then they should be fitted with cameras or else it is just 'he said, they said', and the judiciary will believe them. .

          Last time I nearly crashed was when a police car cut me up at a big roundabout. Crossed into my lane with no warning or reason. My camera wasn't working but I got their reg so drove straight to a cop shop to report it. Police Scotland were happy to record it because it was a British Transport Police car. But they said because my camera wasn't on they couldn't do anything. I said, "Check their camera!" I'd been watching too much TV, their cars don't have cameras, too expensive. My camera only cost £15, but I guess the expense comes from law-suits.

          I wrote a 'disgusted from Tunbridge Wells' letter to the BTP, and got a phone call from a sergeant questioning me about the incident. I thought I was going to be charged but weeks later I got a letter of apology and an assurance that the driver had been "strongly rebuked".

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Keep laughing..

          But remember how Amazon was running this amazing store with no checkout that just knew what you bought?

          The one the were using to beta test their facial recognition software?

          Then remember how Ring cameras started showing up everywhere? And the facial recognition software was being used to target police raids, deny unemployment claims, and we only narrowly avoided having to agree to it to file our taxes?

          Amazon is building wage-slavery-as-a-service, and as soon as it's out of beta, their going to spend some of that pile of billions convincing your boss to use it on you. That's their business plan. If that's not how you want to live best stop griping about how they drive. Whatever happens to them, happens to you next.

          Fight the war now while it's small, and you still have a steady paycheck, or fight it later when you have lost all your leverage...

          What? Excuse me? I see, Orwell is here, right now today, no like outside, right now.

          Excuse me, I have to go now. A ++nice man just met on the stair, and reminded me always tow the party line! Sarcasm directed against the party is +unamerican and ++unamazonian! Alexa, please request my ration of chocolate be deducted from tomorrows earnings yesterday. Bye bye! I'm off to the Ministry for some dental work! Unproud how this all turned out...

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Keep laughing..

            Amazon is building wage-slavery-as-a-service,

            That "service" has been around as long as wages. From medieval farm workers through victorian factory workers, it's not new nor is it ever likely to change.

          2. nematoad Silver badge
            Headmaster

            Re: Keep laughing..

            "...and reminded me always tow the party line!"

            Where do you want to tow it to? I hope it's not too heavy.

            The word you want is toe.

            From the days of bare-knuckle fighting when the two contestants would have to come together in the middle of the ring and put their feet touching the centre line.

            Hence "To toe the line".

          3. MachDiamond Silver badge

            Re: Keep laughing..

            "Amazon is building wage-slavery-as-a-service, and as soon as it's out of beta, their going to spend some of that pile of billions convincing your boss to use it on you."

            And people will sign up for it in droves. Therein lies part of the problem. Kids should have classes in at least household budgeting in their last year or two. Better if they have some instruction in basic business bookkeeping as well and the class should include examples such as being a delivery driver using their own car. I know it can be hard to make ends meet, but knowing where the money goes is very important. I remember seeing interviews with parents when schools shut for Covid that were worried about their kids getting fed. Besides the issue that it's the parent's responsibility first and foremost, many of the people interviewed were covered in tatts and peircings. Real freak shows, some of them. Obviously, they made some poor choices spending money on being a human pin cushion and should have been using that money to look after their kids.

            I could have done better straight out of school by swapping a useless English class learning how to diagram sentences yet again with a class focused on important life skills. Now, later in life, I am always looking to spend money strategically. No cable/sat TV, but the car is paid in full. No streaming music and movies, designer coffees and take away only occasionally, but the mortgage is dead and buried. I don't want to be trapped to the point where I can't tell a boss to "Take this job and shovel it" at just about anytime and walk out. That should be easy for an Amazon delivery driver since most every other job that's easy to get likely won't pay any less. One can have FU money or a low monthly nut that isn't very hard to cover. I'd like to have both.

      3. hoola Silver badge

        Re: "The police forces have given up patrolling"

        They already have cameraa and are monitored, mainly for their own safety because there are too many out they who see the police as a legitimate target for abuse.

    3. Dan 55 Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: Bad Behaviour

      We have private enterprise fixing the problem caused by private enterprise setting unreachable targets (see: drivers peeing in bottles) by invading employees' privacy all day. Yay us! Go team private enterprise!

      1. ThatOne Silver badge
        Devil

        Re: Bad Behaviour

        Nah, they're just fixing the problem of making more money: Break something to make money, and then make even more money fixing it! That's how the economy works...

  6. Pete 2 Silver badge

    Getting on the wrong side

    > was first deployed ... in the US

    > The same system is now apparently being rolled out to vehicles in the UK.

    I do hope the camera developers realise that in the UK people drive on the left side of the road (well: usually)

    So not only will the driver's seat always look empty, but there could be an awful lot of "reckless" driving on completely the wrong side of the road.

    1. Version 1.0 Silver badge
      Thumb Up

      Re: Getting on the wrong side

      Locally, in the US, I see the Amazon delivery drivers doing a very good job and excellent deliveries these days, I don't think it's a result of Amazon cameras (I might be wrong) but it seems to be a result of Amazon starting to employ a lot of former local UPS and Federal Express drivers.

      Now flip the message icon over because this is the USA, so if you are driving around the neighborhood at the speed limit then people driving behind you will be honking their horns and then overtake you when you arrive at a Stop Sign. Don't honk at them when they do that to you because a gun will get waved out of the window. I'm not complaining, that just the way things go.

      1. DS999 Silver badge

        Re: Getting on the wrong side

        The Amazon delivery vans around here (US) are annoying not because they are driving like maniacs but because they drive so slow. I assume the 'AI' is making them keep to the speed limit, which is annoying when most traffic is 5-10 mph above the speed limit in town. Fortunately they don't tend to drive very far before they pull over for a delivery.

        Definite contrast with the food delivery drivers who are racing around and will tailgate you even if you're going 15 over, or even pass you in town across a double line sometimes. I wonder how they make money with all the speeding tickets they must get.

        1. Version 1.0 Silver badge

          Re: Getting on the wrong side

          I guess this might be a result of where we both are, locally (in a town full of white cops) our Amazon drivers are all black so maybe that's why there are driving a lot more carefully here? I'm white so I have a bumper stick on the back of my car:

          CAUTION, I drive like a Cullen.

      2. MachDiamond Silver badge

        Re: Getting on the wrong side

        "it seems to be a result of Amazon starting to employ a lot of former local UPS and Federal Express drivers."

        I don't see how making that switch would be good for the drivers. UPS is union and climbing the ranks to being a driver is usually an indicator of a pretty good salary and benefits. FedEx is two enterprises. Express is the FedEx company and Ground is a load of contractors. If you look at the vehicles in the US and it says "Ground", there will be writing somewhere stating the contractor name and address. Somebody had commented that the color scheme might be an indicator as well. I'm not sure if direct company employees are union or not.

        If somebody has left UPS or FedEx to work as an Amazon driver, there's going to be some circumstances.

    2. MiguelC Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: Getting on the wrong side

      Just imagine once they fit it to Aussie delivery vans, SW will see everyone driving upside down!

      1. Muscleguy Silver badge

        Re: Getting on the wrong side

        Over the pond in NZ they cameras will be completely empty. No Amazon at all. No eBay either. TradeMe got there first. Made two guys rich by local standards.

    3. TRT Silver badge

      Re: Getting on the wrong side

      Aren't US Postal service / delivery vans "wrong-hand drive" anyway? So the driver can hop out on the pavement sidewalk side?

      1. MachDiamond Silver badge

        Re: Getting on the wrong side

        "Aren't US Postal service / delivery vans "wrong-hand drive" anyway? So the driver can hop out on the pavement sidewalk side?"

        Yes. They can also just lean out to stuff mail boxes without having to get out in many places. I expect they've saved loads of money by not having to replace driver side doors due to incidents.

  7. sabroni Silver badge
    Facepalm

    "numerous errors that reportedly denied drivers' bonuses"

    Oh No! Those terrible, terrible errors!! That's definitely not what these cameras are for.

    1. 2+2=5 Silver badge
      Unhappy

      Re: "numerous errors that reportedly denied drivers' bonuses"

      Yeah, funny how the "errors" always result in the drivers losing a bonus, not gaining one.

  8. sabroni Silver badge

    re: It's not surprising......

    ....the biz is now increasingly surveilling workers outside the warehouse too.

    Indeed. Extensive research has proved that Amazon customers couldn't give a fuck about the people providing their next day deliveries.

    1. Screepy
      Happy

      Re: re: It's not surprising......

      Some of us care.

      It's not much I know but I regularly ask our local Amazon/Ups/Dpd/Hermes/etc delivery drivers whether he/she needs a bottle of water/choccie bar/toilet break when they knock on our door.

      The offer is rarely accepted but occasionally it is and hopefully I've made their day just a teeny tiny bit more bearable.

  9. teebie

    "This code uses machine-learning algorithms to figure out what's going on in and around the vehicle."

    So the answers are fictional and there's no way to see how they were made.

  10. alain williams Silver badge

    Does Besos have a camera

    above his desk, does it impact his pay if he does not work hard enough ?

    1. ThatOne Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: Does Besos have a camera

      Come on, he didn't become rich by being a benevolent humanist.

      You know you can't make omelet without breaking other peoples' eggs.

    2. heyrick Silver badge

      Re: Does Besos have a camera

      What would count as work for him? Manic laughter while stroking a cat?

  11. Abominator

    The job did not suck enough so Netradyne got on the case.

    https://www.netradyne.com

    Their website says it all. Total surveillance. You will be controlled human. Take your soma.

  12. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge
    Big Brother

    just a stop gap

    Fleshbag drivers are on the way out anyway.

    This is probly training for the AI drivers

    1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge
      Terminator

      Re: just a stop gap

      So Amazon Terminators then. They cannot be reasoned with. They cannot be bargained with. And they cannot be stopped from dumping your parcel in your wheelie bin.

    2. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
      Alert

      Re: just a stop gap

      Test the AI drivers with...

      Place a lifesize cutout with a realistic representation of Bezos, and another of a generic adult in the path of the vehicle. There is not enough time to safely come to a standstill, and no option but hit one of them. Question is, which one will the AI driven vehicle drive over?

      1. hplasm
        Terminator

        Re: just a stop gap

        Robocop Directive #4 (hidden)

        "Any attempt to arrest a senior officer of OCP results in shutdown"

  13. VoiceOfTruth

    Wait for the non-response from the ICO

    The chair polishers will do nothing.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Wait for the non-response from the ICO

      The chair polishers have been cut to the bone so they don't have the resources investigate the successors to Cambridge Analytica. Amazon are probably happy with that as well for that matter.

  14. Caver_Dave

    What laws will they enforce?

    The largest number of complaints each month in my Parish are due to paths being blocked. The delivery drivers are bad, but usually not blocking the path for too long and so people can wait. Workmen and family visitors are by far the biggest offenders and stay for long periods of time.

    The problem concerns mothers with pushchairs, or children at hand, the disabled, the elderly and partially sighted/blind. These have to walk/drive into the streams of traffic to pass the parked vehicles.

    There are many laws in the UK to cover this, but the Police and the local Unitary Authority can't decide which one of them has duristriction (it depends on which offence you want to persue), but neither of them have the time to enforce it. Note also that vehicle insurance is invalid if you are partaking in an illegal activity!

    Now are Amazon going to pass illegal activity onto the Police?

    1. MachDiamond Silver badge

      Re: What laws will they enforce?

      "The delivery drivers are bad, but usually not blocking the path for too long and so people can wait."

      The question is whether you want to pay for the extra time it would take for a delivery driver to park up legally, walk to your home/business, walk back and then leave to their next stop. They don't linger and I'm in the camp of worrying more about tradesman blocking something for hours on end. Anybody from the bloody council can find a legal place to park if they are there to "work with me on a violation" or some such. I'd rather they had to walk a fair distance. Most of those can use the exercise.

  15. Frank Bitterlich
    Big Brother

    "Encourage"...

    ... the cameras were installed to encourage or help workers...

    Isn't it nice how cameras are always used to "encourage" and "help" people, especially those who are monitored by them.

    As in, "Riot police used batons on the innocent protesters to help and encourage them lying on the ground and bleed."

    And how on earth is a telescreen camera which is monitoring the driver "help[ing] folks keep track of their packages"? Maybe if the van is on fire or lying upside-down in a ditch, the camera will send out an email to all customers having deliveries on that van that it will be delayed?

    1. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge
      Terminator

      Re: "Encourage"...

      Quote

      "And how on earth is a camera which is monitoring the driver "help[ing] folks keep track of their packages"? Maybe if the van is on fire or lying upside-down in a ditch, the camera will send out an email to all customers having deliveries on that van that it will be delayed?"

      At which point the amazon AI will do 3 things

      1. call warehouse and order replacements

      2. call garage to retrieve said van

      3. terminate driver for ending up in the ditch

  16. ITMA Bronze badge

    Amazon!! Cameras for "Safety Reasons"!!!

    Now there are two words which don't go together - Safety and Amazon - given the amount of downright dangerous electrical shit made in China which is sold on there into the UK.

    And what is Amazon's response when someone gets injured by it? "Nowt to do with us mate. Sod off".

  17. Danny 2 Silver badge

    "the cameras were installed to encourage"

    Mais dans ce pays-ci il est bon de tuer de tems en tems un Amiral pour encourager les autres.

    My point is they'd never try this in France, there'd be a violent manifestation and Paris would shut down. Thank God for the French defending civil liberties from US corporations. Luckily they've never been able to figure out our language or accents. Or humour.

    1. Someone Else Silver badge

      Re: "the cameras were installed to encourage"

      Luckily they've never been able to figure out our language or accents. Or humour.

      It's true. Most Americans (and all Tejanos) would never be able to grasp the humor inherent in l'Académie Française.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "the cameras were installed to encourage"

      Paris would shut down.

      And the rest of France wouldn't notice (or care).

      1. Danny 2 Silver badge

        Re: "the cameras were installed to encourage"

        Two decades plus ago I was in Paris when the riot police went on strike. It was surreal. Militarised police in military trucks driving around banging their batons on their shields. Guy Debord meets Monty Python. My jaw hit the ground, but like you said, mais les Français collectively turned a blind eye. C'était normal. IT IS NOT NORMAL!

        It's the only country I've ever fought a cop, but to be fair, it's the only place a cop - or anyone - ever pulled a gun on me. I was just complaining at a RyanAir desk, not something that requires a drawn pistol.

        There is wonderful BBC footage of a reporter in a Parisian street in soixante-huite talking to camera about a riot, and in the far distance a police motorcycle and side car starts approaching. The camera man can see the cop in the sidecar wielding his truncheon for over a minute but doesn't say anything, until the journalist is floored.

  18. Clunking Fist

    We make no apology

    Updated to add

    A spokesperson for Amazon has been in touch, responding to the tech giant's critics:

    We make no apology for stealing the tips given drivers by customers via our App. It's what any Mega US business would do. We've already seen this make a small contribution to executive bonuses by reducing costs by 0.0000048 percent after deployment in the US, and campaigners who suggest we're implementing this technology for any reason other than profitability are simply mistaken.

    1. Someone Else Silver badge

      Re: We make no apology

      We make no apology for stealing the tips given drivers by customers via our App. It's what any Mega MAGA US business would do.

      There. FTFY.

  19. fraunthall

    This is pure fascism. Almost every sentient (some are not truly sentient) poly-sci academics appeared at one time to understand that fascism is attained in a society when huge corporate powers unite with the huge bureaucratic administrative state apparatus and compliant vicious, human hating politicians to take absolute and arbitrary power over all humanity.

    George Orwell saw it coming and wrote about in his book 1984. The current incarnation of this is happening now. The opportunities of the great Pandemic opened up many opportunities to help make it happen.

    It is in full flower in the ideas of Globalization, the personalities of monsters like George Soros and WEF, notions of Climate change and global warming, the rule of the mindless monsters such as Joe Biden and his Demorats, Turdo and his Liberals, and countless other fascists now infesting and destroying humanity. Welcome to it you hopeless, ignorant, mindless mass of idiots who have helped to bring it on.

  20. Yugguy

    This is the same company that thinks a 27 second checkout is far too long.

    They're creepy as in that advert as well.

  21. Hubert Thrunge Jr.

    FFS Wake Up!

    Haulage and distributon fleets have been fitting camera & driver monitoring systems for years.

    The emergency services have had cameras for years.

    If you operate a haulage company and wish to go to London, under TFL rules you have to meet the DVS requirement for vehicles over 12T gross weight. That requires 360 cameras, plus a raft of other "safety" requirements (to make up for the inability of people to look the f**k where they're going).

    In the case of "witness cameras" as fitted by Amazon, they give them (a) recordings of any incidents where "your Amazon vehicle clipped my car and broke my mirror" which are usually settled privately and not via insurance - they're a money maker for the scum of society, (b) in the event of a real accident where it's not the driver's fault, they provide the video evidence to back it up, thus saving the drivers skin from prosecution, and persecution. And then (c) driver profiling - where the G sensors in the camera detect high load / sudden brakiing, they can review the footage and see if the driver was driving like a twat or if that mysterious black dog did indeed run out in front of the van.

    The vehicles are already fitted with telemetry for both delivery tracking and security, that data is also used for driver profiling, which in a responsible organisaton - as Amazon claims to be - will lead to driver training to reduce incidents, and thus reduce the chances of a vehicle being off the run due to accidents, and the subsequent delays in deliveries (and payouts because it didn't turn up).

    Going back to the emergency services, most ambulance fleets have full camera systems now for not only driver monitoring, but for crew and patient safety. Some fleets are still hampered by backward union demands who claim "they'll use it against us" rather than "that patient assaulted me, look at the video footage for proof"

    Have you noticed how some fleets used to be full of dents and drive vans that looked ready for the scrapyard, and now suddenly they're all dent/scrape free? That's because of two things - cameras, and the driver has to pay the insurance excess if they caused the damage. As if by magic, they actually give a f**k about their work equipment now.

    I shall decend from my soapbox, and have a G&T to calm down.

    1. Falmari Silver badge

      Re: FFS Wake Up!

      @Hubert Thrunge Jr. But those 360 cameras are facing out of the vehicle. Amazon has a camera filming the driver. "One is directed at the person behind the wheel"

      That is the part I take issue with. That your every move facial expression can be monitored and captured.

      Would you like a camera in your face all the time you are working?

      1. MachDiamond Silver badge

        Re: FFS Wake Up!

        "@Hubert Thrunge Jr. But those 360 cameras are facing out of the vehicle. Amazon has a camera filming the driver. "One is directed at the person behind the wheel""

        I agree that it's a good thing for a company to have "dash cams" to cut down on fraudulent lawsuits. The issue comes from using the footage to penalize drivers for some perceived violation of "The Rules". Anybody that's been alive for a couple of decades understands that no rule or law is applicable in every situation nor in every instance. Sometimes you have to cheat a bit to get the job done.

  22. neilpm

    Pavement Parking

    I wonder if they'll monitor for the numerous Amazon vans I have to squeeze sideways around on pavements?

  23. mr-slappy

    Folks?

    "...help *folks* keep track of their packages"

    I really hate it when evil megacorporations try and sound like someone's kindly grandpa by using wordage like that.

    They don't care about "folks" any more than they care about their staff. We are just units of production and consumption.

  24. TRT Silver badge

    Interesting that they refer to withholding pay for violations rather than rewarding safe behaviour.

    1. Dave314159ggggdffsdds Silver badge

      They are already rewarding - such as the rewards are - safe and socially aware behaviour. Now they are able to enforce that.

      I really have no problem with Amazon drivers getting more money, any more than I do with anyone else. But it's quite clear there is a huge problem with how they have been behaving, and that the incentives they were set led them to do the exact opposite of being safe and socially aware. If they're now forced to be safe and socially aware, they will stop doing the nasty shit they've been doing, and get paid the same if not more once it all shakes out and deliveries are correctly priced.

      I have literally just been out for a smoke and seen an Amazon branded van hooting and then swearing at a lady with a guide dog who was walking on the pavement and - I think - wasn't speedily-enough crossing a driveway the driver wanted to turn round in. I don't care how hard you have to work for shit pay, that is the behaviour of a scummy person.

      1. TRT Silver badge

        Safe and socially aware behaviour does not in any objective way evenly or predictably balance out pecuniary reward! As you yourself put it they've been incentivised into "riskier" behaviour because of delivery quotas etc.

        Indeed, the delivery quota reward is exactly the kind of stick instead of carrot thing I was pointing out about their way of thinking through these things. Even a base level plus top up reward system gives an incentive to the company to disqualify the reward and thus save money. The drivers will find a way to game the system however it's run.

        And on the Amazon driver front, I've quite literally had one on their knees begging me not to report them for putting a camping knife through a neighbour's letterbox when they accidentally delivered to the wrong address. As you may or may not know, such an item requires a signature on delivery for age verification. I was in, neighbour was out. I watched the man call two doors down (mistaking the direction the street numbers ran), then head back to the van. I went out to ask him if the package was for me and he went white as a sheet. I said he should still have had the parcel as the neighbour wasn't in and it required the age verification. He tried saying the warning about age verification only came up once he'd hit the delivered button (I dunno - I've not seen it from that side of the business). Then he got on his knees and started pleading not to complain as he'd lose his job and he needed it because he'd been made redundant during covid and Amazon was keeping his family fed, just. I didn't complain; I am human. And I know that neighbour doesn't have kids.

      2. MachDiamond Silver badge

        "They are already rewarding - such as the rewards are - safe and socially aware behaviour. Now they are able to enforce that."

        It isn't sounding like there is any "carrot" but there is a modicum of "stick".

        If the number of packages delivered is the only metric and not hitting an absurdly set bar leads to fines or a dismissal, employees that are trapped in the job are going to be dicks. Obviously the company is attracting employees at the wages offered so that isn't the problem. It's the pace and the quality of the supervisors and management. I don't see a problem in calculating a day that leaves 20 minutes at the end while at the same time making sure the driver is allocated proper rest and meal breaks. Vehicles always need maintenance and there's often end of day tasks such as checking in packages that couldn't be delivered and paperwork. There's no reason why a driver shouldn't spend a minute collecting trash from inside the vehicle and applying a quick broom on a regular basis. I don't expect them to change the oil, but it could be a good idea that it's checked frequently.

  25. Paul_Canada
    WTF?

    Ughh. I'm just gonna cancel my prime membership. Enough.

  26. Jan 0

    You're all missing the point!

    Never mind the ill treatment of the work force. You've all missed their timely solution to the energy crisis!

    How did you all miss: "AI-powered cameras"

    If Amazon can power cameras with AI, how long before we get AI powered vehicles and home heating systems?

    Nuclear Power? No Thanks! I'll settle for less toxic AI!

  27. MachDiamond Silver badge

    Sound off

    Audio recording of people talking invokes a dense jungle of laws which is why Amazon aren't doing it. In some places it's adequate that one person involved knows a recording is being made and in other places all parties have to agree. A third party is universally ruled out as far as I know. There may be laws that allow a private citizen to record their interactions with public employees without that other person's consent being required. Of course, that's led to police and others to play some music in the background so posting the recording to YouTube or social media is going to lead to a copyright takedown. I'm fine with that. If I find it necessary to record my interaction with a police officer, it will be to submit as evidence in a hearing or complaint. The people that post all of the time are frequently baiting the police or public official to get a rise out of them and get more views (and more ad money) for their videos.

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Other stories you might like

Biting the hand that feeds IT © 1998–2022