Engineer gets Windows 11 working on a Surface Duo

Arch tinkerer Gustave Monce has demonstrated Windows 11 running on a first-generation Surface Duo. The Duo is famously an Android device but, fresh from showing that Windows 11 could be coaxed into running on a Lumia Windows Phone, Monce has worked his magic on Redmond's first effort at a foldable handset. While Monce's work …

[LenG]

The reason for the hardware requirements

I'm personally quite certain that the main reason for the strict requirements is to encourage the purchase of new equipment which will, in all likelihood, come with win 11 preinstalled. Otherwise most people will be quite happy to continue with Win10

[Bruce Ordway]

Re: The reason for the hardware requirements

>> Otherwise most people will be quite happy to continue with

Win 7

[Ramis101]

Re: The reason for the hardware requirements

>> Otherwise most people will be quite happy to continue with

XP

[DS999]

Re: The reason for the hardware requirements

Nah, 7 was definitely a big improvement on XP.

The problem is that neither 10 or 11 was any real improvement over 7.

[Youngone]

Re: The reason for the hardware requirements

XP Service Pack 3 was peak Windows (in my opinion).

Fedora 35 is better than either of them of course.

[spuddl3z1z]

Re: The reason for the hardware requirements

Running Fedora 35 LDE spin on ZFS on both my laptop and workstation and it's an absolute dream. I gave up on Ubuntu, 20.04 really was a bit of a mess for desktop use. The frequency of updates is slightly annoying though.

Wayland still isn't quite usable (with SDDM/Plasma) but I hope they get there. X will do for now.

Also the Kwin tiling scripts just make it a dream.

Goodby windows, it was good until you brought out 8. Then we just hated you. I should note I do need 11 for gaming but I really don't mind booting it up to play MSFS or iRacing.

[Pascal Monett]

Re: Then we just hated you

Oh ho ! Look who never used Vista.

Or ME.

[Dave K]

Re: Then we just hated you

At least back then MS still seemed to care enough to ensure that the follow-up version of Windows was good. Now though we're onto our third crap release in a row.

Windows 8 - good underpinnings, but dreadful user interface

Windows 10 - perpetually in beta, ugly and unfinished UI

Windows 11 - some UI improvements (looks more polished), some UI regressions (woeful Start Menu), almost all customisability removed, insane hardware requirements.

Yep, MS have been on a bad run for quite some time now.

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Re: The reason for the hardware requirements

>XP Service Pack 3 was peak Windows (in my opinion).

Mine daily driver still is, fsck Wins 8, 10 and 11! Shirley they'll ditch that mess and proceed directly to 12?

[devin3782]

Re: The reason for the hardware requirements

Rubbish, Windows 10 & 11 had huge improvements over Windows 7, granted it was only in the area of Microsoft being able to gather more telemetry information on us though.

Luckily though some thoughtful soul has provided a domain blocking list for your pi-hole to prevent Windows from sending it, trouble with that of course is that will also make the Windows 11+ worse and worse due to the telemetry echo chamber effect.

At least there's Fedora 35 Cinnamon edition :)

[oiseau]

Re: The reason for the hardware requirements

... 7 was definitely a big improvement on XP.

Can't say.

Never bothered as, after many years of suffering MS, was already quite fed up and migrating everything I had to Linux.

That was ~ 12 years ago, never looked back.

O.

[LybsterRoy]

Re: The reason for the hardware requirements

Yes, but I keep getting told I should upgrade to W10 and its FREE. I keep pointing out it will cost me several thousand pounds (development toolchain etc) and mucho time to carry out this free upgrade <G>

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: The reason for the hardware requirements

I theorized this, too. Microsoft just wants to coax people into buying either a new computer that is capable of upgrading to Windows 11 or better yet, something newer, comes with it. Didn't work on me. My Desktop runs 10, doesn't upgrade to 11 and I'm not replacing it. HAH!!!!! And by the way, Microsoft, Libre Office is FREE!!!!!

[Fred Daggy]

Re: The reason for the hardware requirements

I think we are seeing the problems of Middle Age for Windows. It's too many things to too many people.

To hardware manufacturers, it's a way to drive sales. But that's no longer really true - the performance gains from hardware aren't there, there isn't the new killer product either. And normally more than wiped out by new generation of telemetary collection.

Then there is the monetisation of the user. Before it was just about the license. Now, it's about ongoing revenue streams. Direct advertising or selling the profile.

The Office division sees Windows as a way to shift Office licences.

Entertainment division sees Windows as a platform to consume rented entertainment (only, no BYO)

The cloud division sees Windows as a way to consume cloud services - eg Microsoft 365.

The database division sees Windows as a way to consume SQL licences.

Probably missed a few, but you get the idea.

So MS management now have to satisfy all these stakeholders. There isn't much wriggle room for Windows to grow in new an exciting ways. To some extent, I think Apple are now in much the same boat. Only Linux and the various *BSDs, with "benevolent" dictators seem to have a sense of purpose and drive.

[LybsterRoy]

Re: The reason for the hardware requirements

I must say I don't have any problems with advertising on my W10 laptop but then it mainly sits quietly in a corner gathering dust and being booted occasionally to test software developed on my W7 laptop.

[AnoniMouse]

Re: The reason for the hardware requirements

One plausible reason for the hardware requirements is to eliminate risks from security vulnerabilities resulting from published) hardware design flaws and that MS no longer wish to support the associated software mitigations - which also had undesirable performance impacts.

The moral from the tech industry seems to be that if you make billions out of sellling flawed products, just sweep the old version under the carpet, produce a new version and then charge your customers sevral more billions to buy the new (and, now, only supported) version.

The super fun part is that change of hardware platform resullts in the need to buy new licenses for most of the software, so almost the whole IT industry "wins" - but not their customers.

[Anonymous Coward]

My unsubstantiated conspiracy theory is the requirements are an arbitrary stop gap to mitigate speculative execution security risks/performance degradation. Ie, intel 7th gen and earlier chips can’t satisfactorily overcome the problem. Thus it’s a desperate attempt to move the market upwards.

But that’s just my tinfoil hat talking.

[Blackjack]

There is the practical reason of wanting to support less hardware to make updates and patching easier. Just look how many devices no longer get Windows 10 updates, like phones for example.

Of course there is the even bigger reason of money dear boy.

[Steve Davies 3]

Meanwhile...

in Microsoft HQ, SATNAD is yelling at his engineers and telling them to make sure that this can't happen again.

MS Level C droids are control freaks. They do not like their restrictions being bypassed. W11 is their pig and only they are allowed to put any lipstick on it.

[David 132]

Re: Meanwhile...

in Microsoft HQ, SATNAD is yelling at his engineers and telling them to make sure that this can't happen again.

...as the older Microsoft hands present there are instinctively checking to make sure that all the chairs within reach are bolted down.

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Re: Meanwhile...

SATNAD looks too weak to lift pencils

[vogon00]

Re: Meanwhile...

Judging by the state of W11, it's current market share, and the flaming going on, I'd say they've been paying attention to the non-lipstick end.

That said, if they are choosing to put lipstick on the 'wrong' end of the pig, I'm not going to kinkshame them:-)

[Jan K.]

There's only one sysadmin in Windows.

You may have some fun playing around, tinkering and what not.

But one day your Windows 10 _will_ get upgraded and hardware requirements _will_ be required...

So by all means, have some fun while you can and while the admin allows it.

There's only one sysadmin in Windows.

[IamAProton]

I used win 7 as long as possible, which means I "missed" the first 5 years of win 10 and I am in the process of "enjoying" the last 5 years of Win 10.

In other words, I will use win 10 for about 5 years, same as those who jumped on win 10 right away and are now jumping on win 11, with the substantial difference that the first 5 years of win 10 were rather painful for certain user and definitely annoying for the majority (lots of huge updates, remember those?).

I will use win 11 eventually, but I let other users sort it out for me, by then I will probably get new hardware anyways (well, work computers, so not really my problem if new hw is required)

For the record, I do not like win 10 UI. Got used to it, still don't like it (switched to Linux Mint at home years ago)

[Pascal Monett]

Windows 7 works fine and there is no reason Borkzilla couldn't continue maintaining it - except that, as noted above, a new version does wonders to prod Joe Public into buying a new computer.

[Halfmad]

Windows 7 could have been supported for longer but was becoming a complete mess of code. That was part of the bonus of Windows 10 although it's going the way route.

The need for new OS isn't always to punt new machines, Linux variants offer updates just as often, not from a commercial stand point. A lot of it is code housekeeping.

The bigger question is why MS can't keep it's code tidy on new OS for longer.

[quxinot]

It's cute that you think that 10 and even 11 started off as being anything but a complete mess of code.

Or 7, far as that goes.

[pavel.petrman]

I wonder who in the world would like to run Windows 11

Engineering feat? Yes! But on the same level as getting Windows 95 to run on Apple Watch (remember that?)

Windows, once a well usable platform, has gone great lengths to break everything good and replace it with polished kopros.

On Windows 10 you can't tell what is presentation and what is control, which window is active, or change any setting in the "streamlined" control panel.

In Windows 11 you can't even locate the start button without tenfold cognitive stress compared to Windows 11. The start button should really be called stop button.

And at the same time erstwhile behemoth fossils like KDE morphed into everything Windows isn't but should be. Peripheries work, processors perform, even Wine is now officially supported for the sorry sods among us who can't go about our daily jobs without good Windows compatibility.

Makes me wonder. Who would want Windows 11?

[werdsmith]

Re: I wonder who in the world would like to run Windows 11

It’s not surprising that on The Register an article about someone who has done a technical challenge turns into a whingathon about Windows UI.

I run any OS not because “I want to” but because it is the means to get into the applications I want to use. I switch on, launch my application and work away. The OS, whether it’s Windows 10 or 11, a billion variations on a Linux UI, or Mac or whatever, is forgotten about. I don’t directly use the OS except to get into my productive applications. At which point, for any practical measure, the OS is irrelevant. I don’t even pay for any of them myself.

The only OS I specifically choose for its direct benefit is RISC OS. I use this for writing when I want no distraction.

[Dan 55]

Re: I wonder who in the world would like to run Windows 11

If the OS, whether it’s Windows 10 or 11, a billion variations on a Linux UI, or Mac or whatever, is forgotten about, then you wouldn't need to even think about using RISC OS for distraction-free writing, let alone actually use it.

[werdsmith]

Re: I wonder who in the world would like to run Windows 11

If the OS, whether it’s Windows 10 or 11, a billion variations on a Linux UI, or Mac or whatever, is forgotten about, then you wouldn't need to even think about using RISC OS for distraction-free writing, let alone actually use it.

That’s deliberately obtuse. And rubbish.

I don’t look at The Register when using RISC OS.

[Plest]

Re: I wonder who in the world would like to run Windows 11

As someone who love Linux and has used it since 1993, ( Yes, I still have my Yggdrail install media from 1993 in my spare room "museum"!! ), I've had no issues with Win11. I just installed it clean off an MSDN ISO download, put my dev tools back in, VirtualBox VMS booted fine and work as always and installed my Steam games back, all in one afternoon and touch wood I've not had any issues in 3 months of using it now.

I'm not saying anyone should upgrade but stop with all this crap and whinging. We get it, you don't like MS, I was the same about 15 years ago but I got older and grew up and now I don't give much of a crap about what I use so long as it works for me, mileage may vary for others.

( Just stop with the bollocks FUD bullshit, the start button W11 is in exactly the same place as it's always been, bottom left where you can see a big blue window icon! FFS! You want to whinge then at least find something better to moan about than the fact that your eyesight cannot find a blue button in the same place it's been for the last 27 years!! )

[pavel.petrman]

Re: I wonder who in the world would like to run Windows 11

There is a sad one liner: "like every one of you, I, too, suffer from projection". May I suggest reading the text instead of reading _into_ it?

Some people seem to be missing the flamewars of their youth. others have never taken part in them and haveno intention to start doing so. Usually, one can tell one from the other by the number of exclamation marks, playing us and them instead of getting their facts right.

[quxinot]

Re: I wonder who in the world would like to run Windows 11

"Yes, I still have my Yggdrail install media from 1993 in my spare room "museum"!!"

That's it, I'm renaming my junk storage as 'the museum" too. Brilliant!

[Tubz]

Windows 11 requirements are artificial and just another example of the Intel 610 Aero con by Microsoft to help Intel ship a load of second rate chipsets, this time around it's to help the whole market to push sales not needed. Lost count the number of machines I have installed W11 on using the fixes available and working just as happy as under W10. I actually like W11, due to Microsoft migrating options from the old WinX applets to the new settings screens.

[Halfmad]

Requirements are included to ensure a consistent experience and reduce support calls due to under spec'd hardware but they should always been seen as a guide.

I can't remember the number of times my PC in the 90s didn't meet requirements for AutoCAD or games - yet I used it perfectly happily.

[Dan 55]

TPM 2.0 is a requirement, not a guide or recommendation.

[Dave K]

And that is the problem. Should TPM and everything else have been requirements? Or should they have been part of the "recommended specs"? After all, Windows 11 currently works just fine on systems with older CPUs, no TPM etc.

[escapetime161803]

Are the upgrade conditions real?

Having so far upgraded four PCs from Windows 10 to Windows 11, two of which declared themselves not to be compliant with the necessary conditions, and the other two having secure boot but not enabled, I can't help wondering if the upgrade conditions have recently been relaxed. One of the PCs failed to qualify on all three conditions - it has an old CPU and doesn't even have secure boot or TPM - but I thought I had nothing to lose by giving it a try, and it just worked. It didn't even affect the dual-booting Linux Mint installation or the GRUB boot menu, all of which continues to work as before.

All I did was to download the ISO file from Microsoft and use Rufus to make a USB installation thumbdrive as I've done previously for Windows 10. I didn't do anything special and got no error messages. Go figure, as they say.

It reminds me of when a free in situ upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10 was offered provided it was done before a cutoff date, and yet it continued to be possible after the cutoff date had passed. Is Microsoft changing things without announcing them perhaps?

[Dacarlo]

Ultimate versions...

I was always a fan of Windows CE, then ME, then NT. Before I knew it I'd wound up in Windows CEMENT and now I'm stuck with it.

I'll get my coat...

[Boris the Cockroach]

Re: Ultimate versions...

best be quick... so of us are looking at sending you off a bridge to sleep with the fishes