back to article US judge dismisses Republican efforts to block release of Salesforce emails

A US judge has dismissed efforts by the Republican National Committee (RNC) to block the release of emails created and managed on a Salesforce system as part of an investigation into the January 6, 2021 attacks on the Capitol building. In a ruling released this week [PDF], District Judge Timothy Kelly rejected the RNC claim …

  1. aerogems Bronze badge
    FAIL

    Only in 'merica

    I swear, only in the US would you find politicians with the stones to claim with a straight face that whipping up a mob which attempted to violently overthrow the government is a competitive secret like the formula for Coca-Cola. Pretty much anywhere else in the Western world, politicians would likely resign in disgrace to preserve what little dignity was left to them, not fund raise off their shame.

    Not that it'll happen, but some of these people should be swinging from the gallows their followers helpfully erected on Jan 6 after being convicted of treason.

    1. Warm Braw Silver badge

      Re: Only in 'merica

      Pretty much anywhere else in the Western world, politicians would likely resign in disgrace to preserve what little dignity was left to them

      Fortunately, the British government has managed to overthrow the constitution with hardly anyone noticing, so they don't even need to consider resigning.

      1. ConsumedByFire

        Re: Only in 'merica

        Britain doesn't have a constitution. Probably needs changing but still.

        1. Cederic Silver badge

          Re: Only in 'merica

          The UK does have a constitution, and the current Government has not overthrown it.

          Indeed, the current Prime Minister had to fight hard to keep it intact after the deliberate efforts of multiple traitors to hand control of the country to foreign powers.

          That was only 2019. I know we've had a global pandemic and war in Europe since then but still, I think a full investigation into the emails of politicians and civil servants from late 2019 would be very revealing.

          1. runt row raggy

            Re: Only in 'merica

            from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_United_Kingdom i read "...no attempt has been made to codify such arrangements into a single document. Thus, it is known as an uncodified constitution."

            i'll leave it to the gentle reader to decide if that is having a constitution or not.

        2. NoneSuch Silver badge
          Coffee/keyboard

          Re: Only in 'merica

          If American / UK governments protected our privacy with the same zeal they try to protect their own, Snowden would still be an unknown government employee in Hawaii.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Only in 'merica

      You really think of bunch of unarmed people, who were let into the Capitol by the Capitol police and infiltrated by FBI people, was going to overthrown the entire government? Really?

      1. martinusher Silver badge

        Re: Only in 'merica

        The people who were in the building were not going to do this. If you follow the strategy in more detail you'll find that the coup was actually going on behind the scenes with one component being merely to delay the official count of the votes of the Presidential electors.

        It was all rather well worked out and what the Jan. 6th committee is doing is unraveling it to figure out who did what when and why they did it. It failed because of mistakes made by the "ploltters" (its really giving them too much credence calling them by that name) and bad timing. They won't make the same mistakes again.

      2. oiseau Silver badge
        FAIL

        Re: Only in 'merica

        You really think of bunch of ...

        @AC: You do know that there is a joke alert icon you can use.

        Don't you?

        O.

      3. aerogems Bronze badge
        Joke

        Re: Only in 'merica

        I know when I go to peacefully protest I erect gallows out front, show up sporting body armor, zip tie handcuffs, and bear spray, fight with security guards, literally scale the building and break windows to get in, wander around the halls shouting about how I want to execute the VP, ransack offices stealing government and personal property, and smear feces on the walls for good measure. I mean... isn't that just normal SOP for protesting?

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: Only in 'merica

          They weren't protesting, they were just tourists remember.

          It's just that they were all going on to a crazy insurgency themed costume party later and things got confused

    3. Cederic Silver badge

      Re: Only in 'merica

      You want people killed for demanding a free and fair election? That's all the protesters on 6th January were after.

      Meanwhile I still haven't seen the House committee investigating why the offer of National Guard assistance was refused, why the police let people into the building (a fact successfully used to defend against a prosecution) or why so many thousands of hours of footage are being withheld from people being aggressively held in prison and tortured for over a year on misdemeanor charges.

      Sure, investigate the political party's emails. But do both political parties, and prosecute anybody that's "lost" them. Let's get the real truth out there. All of it.

      1. diodesign (Written by Reg staff) Silver badge

        "That's all the protesters on 6th January were after"

        That's gold-winning mental gymnastics

        C.

        1. Cederic Silver badge

          Re: "That's all the protesters on 6th January were after"

          Unlike the post to which I replied, which suggested that tens of thousands of gun owners attempted to violently overthrow the Government by.. oh, hang on, I seem to recall them leaving their guns at home.

          But hey, I'm all for transparency and open investigation. Let's see the communications between the Speaker and her Capitol Police, let's see the emails between her party and the media, let's see the requests made to Twitter to ban someone for saying 'go home in peace'.

          Electronic records. They work for everybody.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: "That's all the protesters on 6th January were after"

            were you part of it?

            or just cheering from the sidelines.

            what a twat!

          2. Stevie

            Re: "That's all the protesters on 6th January were after"

            Waiting for the inevitable "Biden laptop" reference ...

        2. Winkypop Silver badge

          Re: "That's all the protesters on 6th January were after"

          “That's gold-winning mental gymnastics”

          The Spanish judge gave it a 10

          1. Someone Else Silver badge

            Re: "That's all the protesters on 6th January were after"

            Yes, but then the Russian judge...

        3. Snake Silver badge

          Re: Gold-winning mental gymnastics

          Isn't that why we're all at this point in the first place? These people used mental gymnastics to come up with their half-baked, discredited ideas in the first place because they aren't / weren't adult enough to admit to themselves that, GASP!, they could actually lose.

          What, me LOSE? I'm TR.UMP! I never lose! And you should settle for me losing, either!

      2. ecofeco Silver badge

        Re: Only in 'merica

        Oh do shut up.

    4. Someone Else Silver badge

      Re: Only in 'merica

      In America, politicians (especially Republican ones) have no dignity. Ref. the incessant fawning and pandering to tRump.

  2. codejunky Silver badge
    Black Helicopters

    One option

    Maybe they should just delete the emails. Hilary style.

    1. Paul Crawford Silver badge

      Re: One option

      Surely you mean like Bush's prior example?

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_White_House_email_controversy

      1. codejunky Silver badge

        Re: One option

        @Paul Crawford

        "Surely you mean like Bush's prior example?"

        According to that link it seems the deleted emails were found on backups. I dont think Hillary made that mistake. But yeah they both play the same corrupt game. Its interesting to hear the continued push that the election wasnt fraudulent where I would probably choose to be a lot more careful considering the revelations about recent 'true' and 'false' events.

        1. martinusher Silver badge

          Re: One option

          They've moved on from "fraudulent". The fraud line now is that various groups encouraged and enabled people to vote who would not normally have voted. This unfairly skewed the results.

          And, no, I'm not joking.

          The core of the Republican complaint is that some rather far sighted people saw this trouble brewing up a year or two before the election and figured out how to forestall it. (This was all detailed in an article in the "Atlantic" magazine last year.) It was a multi-pronged approach but it wasn't built around corrupting the vote, merely enabling it and making sure the inevitable challenges to results were easily countered. One other facet of the approach was engagement with community groups about tactics and optics; the most visible manifestation of this was that on January 6th. there were no counter-protestors, something that completely screwed up the organizers (hence the dark hints about "FBI" in the crowd -- not an ANTIFA for miles, the organizers had to not only own this but also be seen to own it).

          This won't help us in 2022 and 2024, of course. Its also a mistake to think of "Trump" being important; he's not, he's just the epitome of the "useful idiot", someone who could appear at the right place and time to enable and agenda that's been brewing for decades.

          1. codejunky Silver badge

            Re: One option

            @martinusher

            "The fraud line now is that various groups encouraged and enabled people to vote who would not normally have voted."

            Really? I thought they had moved to the illegal mule of votes supported by various video and tracking as well as said mules taking pictures to verify delivery. From what I hear. I have not heard the claim you mention, the nearest was the irregularities in swing states where fraud was suspected.

            I aint willing to stake a flag on either side, the stream of revelations over dem corruption and weaponization of the countries security organisations against a presidential candidate makes it just another lie that could turn out to be true.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: One option

              about time you got your head out of trumps arse.

              He attempted treason, he should be hanging from a rope, Mussolini style.

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: One option

              Keep taking the (red) pills there, my friend. Without your tireless efforts the grifters and "pundits" would need to work extra hard to get their whackjob conspiracy bullshit spread as wide as it does. Keep up the good work!

            3. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: One option

              "Really? I thought they had moved to the illegal mule of votes supported by various video and tracking as well as said mules taking pictures to verify delivery."

              Thoroughly debunked. You are just spreading anti-democratic misinformation at this point. Sad.

              1. codejunky Silver badge

                Re: One option

                @AC

                "Thoroughly debunked"

                Debunked to what standard? That its wrong? Or that its wrong like the Biden laptop didnt exist/wasnt real/etc, the Steele Dossier, the successful withdrawal of the US from Afghanistan, Covid didnt come from the lab, etc?

                You might be right but the most popular president in US history aka the corpse in chief have already been caught out along with the party with serious election misbehaviour and 2016 is still under serious investigation so who knows how long for 2020 to be looked at seriously.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: One option

                  "Debunked to what standard? That its wrong?"

                  There you go, my friend. You can work these things out for yourself! Well done. Next time think twice about believing a convicted election fraudster like D'Souza.

                  I hope you were not scammed out of $29 by this grifter?

                  1. codejunky Silver badge
                    WTF?

                    Re: One option

                    @AC

                    "There you go, my friend."

                    And so I think you may have missed the point by quite a distance.

    2. You aint sin me, roit Silver badge
      Trollface

      Re: One option

      Then employ good old Republican patriotic pleas... "Hey, Putin, maybe you can help find those emails".

      And casually mention that Trump is running a child-trafficking ring from the basement of a pizza parlour...

      I mean, what could possibly go wrong?

      1. Blank Reg Silver badge

        Re: One option

        From the basement of a pizza place with no basement

        1. DS999 Silver badge

          Re: One option

          "It had been filled in with the trafficked children buried alive by the time that guy arrived"

          The reason conspiracy theories are so dangerous is that you can always add another layer of conspiracy when facts expose the previous conspiracy as a total fabrication.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: One option

      Maybe they could do it ism style. I mean What about ism?

  3. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

    A political party uses salesforce?

    Not exactly subtle - couldn't they at least rebrand it "campaign contributions force"?

  4. KBeee Silver badge
    Facepalm

    We don't want this to get out, because reasons

    What is it that all those pro surveillance, anti encryption people say?

    Oh yeah "Nothing to hide, nothing to fear."

  5. Marty McFly Silver badge
    Megaphone

    There is a lesson here...

    Set the politics aside for a moment.

    Way back at the time of the event, SFDC blocked activities of one of its customers, the RNC. Now, over a year later, SFDC is being legally pursued to provide emails from this customer.

    This would not be in issue if RNC had provided for their own infrastructure instead of relying on a cloud SAAS provider. What happens here, and the outcome of this case, will set a precedent for future SAAS customer relationships. And if the customer's information is in any way potentially sensitive or private, the customer may want to seriously consider using their own infrastructure instead.

    CEOs, CIOs, etc need to pay attention here. Not because of what they are doing today, but because of what their SAAS provider could potentially do to them tomorrow. Without any measure of due process, the SAAS provider could shut down their operation. And the SAAS provider may be required by law enforcement to produce private data from the organization's records.

    Again, not trying to debate the right & wrong of RNC actions. I am just seeing how much control their SAAS provider had and how that relationship is now being addressed in the courts. If the RNC had controlled their infrastructure and data, they would not be in this situation today.

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: There is a lesson here...

      sure you could operate your own email server and then explain to the supena brandishing SWAT team that you 'accidentally' erased all the emails about the share fraud/sanction busting/plan to kill the president - or you could use a cheap SAAS supplier and rely on them erasing everything 5 minutes after you cancel the billing and then fail to have any sort of backup.

      What I like to call Perfectly Deniable Incompetence As A Service

      1. Sam 15

        Re: There is a lesson here...

        "sure you could operate your own email server and then explain to the supena brandishing SWAT team that you 'accidentally' erased all the emails about the share fraud/sanction busting/plan to kill the president"

        No problem. Put your server on an Italian spy satellite where the SWAT team can't reach it.

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: There is a lesson here...

          But the Italian spy satellite would be blown up by a CIA backed fake terrorist group and simultaneously shot down by the French air force.

          Remember all conspiracies about Italian politics are simultaneously true

        2. Blank Reg Silver badge

          Re: There is a lesson here...

          But the Space Force might be able to get to it. Luckily you could always have one of the Jewish space lasers "accidentally" zap your satellite

          1. DS999 Silver badge

            Re: There is a lesson here...

            Would that be an Israeli controlled Jewish space laser, or one controlled by Zelenskyy? Because the latter is busy waiting to target Putin if he ever pops his head out of the Kremlin.

            1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

              Re: There is a lesson here...

              Does the Judean People's Front have a space laser ?

              1. eldakka Silver badge

                Re: There is a lesson here...

                No, you're thinking of the People's Front for Judea.

                1. ecofeco Silver badge

                  Re: There is a lesson here...

                  SPLITTERS!

    2. msobkow Silver badge

      Re: There is a lesson here...

      Although I agree that there is a concern about "private" data, note that when you are a business, anything and everything you have produced can be subpoenaed by going through proper channels, which is being done here.

      I have no issues with what is going on. I wish the RNC and Drumpf would meet their bitter end sooner rather than later, but I'd rather the courts take the time to ensure any convictions stick than rushing it for the sake of someone's immediate PR coup.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: There is a lesson here...

        Except if they drag it out until the Republicans have more political clout the case will simply vanish

        1. codejunky Silver badge

          Re: There is a lesson here...

          @Yet Another Anonymous coward

          "Except if they drag it out until the Republicans have more political clout the case will simply vanish"

          Probably very true. Although I expect if the Dems wernt so desperate to deflect from the president and to try and keep Trump from running again this investigation wouldnt be going on.

          1. DryBones

            Re: There is a lesson here...

            I think you need to adjust your calibration 50 points to the left.

            Multiple attempts were made from within and without our system of government to invalidate the actual votes of the voters in the states, to reject or change the outcome of those electoral processes.

            It needs to be investigated, it is being investigated. That you think that it would not be investigated were positions reversed shows that you've fallen for the Republican propaganda hook, line, and sinker.

            1. codejunky Silver badge

              Re: There is a lesson here...

              @DryBones

              "Multiple attempts were made from within and without our system of government to invalidate the actual votes of the voters in the states, to reject or change the outcome of those electoral processes."

              A great amount of effort has been made to predetermine who is the president of the US from within and without the system of government. Actions at best sinister and at worst criminal.

              "It needs to be investigated, it is being investigated. That you think that it would not be investigated were positions reversed shows that you've fallen for the Republican propaganda hook, line, and sinker."

              The 2016 election is still being investigated and revelations from the latest election showing known truths to be lies and known lies to be truths. That the intention to decide who should be the president was made with serious state corruption. The intelligence officials who suggested the laptop was Russian misinformation wont even be prosecuted-

              https://www.theepochtimes.com/no-legal-consequences-for-hunter-biden-laptop-censorship-william-barr_4437960.html

              Do remember the sitting president was investigated publicly and even had a failed impeachment against him because of a dodgy dossier bought and paid for by the dems. That the feds had identified as dodgy yet still used it to justify invasive investigation.

              To believe an equal treatment between parties is to be naive.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: There is a lesson here...

                Epoch Times? Hmm. Actual conspiracy caught on camera?

                1. codejunky Silver badge

                  Re: There is a lesson here...

                  @AC

                  "Epoch Times? Hmm. Actual conspiracy caught on camera?"

                  Are you saying the source is wrong and those intelligence officials who lied to affect the presidential election will be prosecuted?

                  1. msobkow Silver badge

                    Re: There is a lesson here...

                    The Epoch Times is about as credible as The National Enquirer at best.

                    1. Anonymous Coward
                      Anonymous Coward

                      Re: There is a lesson here...

                      I think you are being extremely generous there. Hidden money, set up by a cult. Hmm.

                    2. codejunky Silver badge

                      Re: There is a lesson here...

                      @msobkow

                      "The Epoch Times is about as credible as The National Enquirer at best."

                      I note the absolute avoidance of what was reported. Almost like your not able to refute it and instead wish to try and discredit the source because the facts would be too difficult?

                      There is an issue at the moment where no news can be trusted unless it spouts the 'correct' lies. We have found this with ongoing revelations?

      2. hayzoos

        Re: There is a lesson here...

        Don't forget though, that in the "Good Ol' US of A" that businesses are people too!

  6. msobkow Silver badge

    *sniff* *sniff* *sniff*

    Is that RNC desperation I smell or the sweet smell of victory over Drrumpf? Time will tell, I guess... :)

  7. ecofeco Silver badge

    Bwhahahahahahahah!

    Excellent!

  8. Neoc

    Hey, RNC: "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear".

    Sound familiar?

    1. ecofeco Silver badge

      It's hard for folks with recto-cranial-inversion hypocrisy to hear things.

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