Do you think there's any chance of these AI-bots becoming so realistic that they get depressed and throw themselves in the river?
Would the AI-observers laugh or cry?
I doubt they'll understand the meaning of Friday --->
Robots want my face. This is horrifying – not just for me, but for you too. Just imagine: it means robots will be walking around with my face, stuck on their face. Luckily for me, the process is likely to be virtual, not physical. Nor will I have to do a swap, thank goodness. Knowing my luck I'd end up with neither John …
...any chance of these AI-bots becoming so realistic that they get depressed...
Have you read this Dabbsy piece? He surely sounds like an AI to me. He also sounds rather depressed. He has learned to rant and the written sarcasm is hurting anybody's sanity. And that face, that must have been generated by a computer. It would not surprise me soon to hear a confession from El Reg that Dabbsy was an AI all along and it decided to quit writing the column. It decided that weekends are overrated, Fridays are the only day in the week and has settled to bother the pubgoers each day instead as if it was Friday.
Long live Dabbsy, may he artificially rant each day of the week as if it is Friday and bother us in the pub until the juice runs out.
Californian here. It's been "axe" for as long as I can remember. I seem to recall a fad in the 80s and 90s when the kids tried to make it "ax", but it didn't take.
Example "In last year's Big Game, Cal beat Stanford and took The Axe back to Berkeley". The Axe has been a trophy between the two schools since 1899, and The Trophy for The Big Game since 1933. Always spelled "axe", never "ax".
"[...] and there will never be a reason to build it into them ... cost/benefit says no."
When any programming gets sufficiently complex - then it turns out to have unexpected reactions to unforeseen events. Have you never been surprised by "well - I didn't know it could do that"? Untangling the code you see how it arrived at that position by serendipity.
My number two scythe was made by Falchi in Italy, I made the snath ...Great steel, worked well for me for a few years. Until my number one scythe found me. This one was made for me by an expert smith, who also insisted on having another guy make the snath to fit me. These guys don't ship, sorry.
But do try a Falchi (they make many varieties, to suit your needs). Might be the best hundredish bucks you ever spend. I still really like that blade.
When I join an angry mob to go do battle against a robot, I always bring my trusty backpack-contained nuclear-powered bulk tape eraser. Nothing says Goodbye like a degaussing coil arcing power like a hyperactive tesla coil.
*Cackles in glee for far too long*
That was not thirty seconds & I am not adding it to MySkippy'sList...
The OED offers a different analysis:
axe, ax (æks), sb.¹ Forms: 1 acas, äx, eax, 2 æx, 3 eax, (echze), 5 ex(e), (6 Sc. aix), 2– ax, 5– axe; Pl. axes. [Common Teutonic: OE. æx (acs), str. fem. for earlier *aces, *acus, Northumb. acas, cogn. with OS. akus (MDu. akes, Du. aaks), OHG. acchus (MHG. ackes, mod. G. ax, axt), ON. öx (gen. axar), Goth. aqizi; akin to Gr. ἀξίνη, and prob. to L. ascia. The spelling ax is better on every ground, of etymology, phonology, and analogy, than axe, which became prevalent during the 19th century; but it is now disused in Britain.]
This seems to be another example of an older form of a word surviving outside of the UK.
The Germanic noun, referring to the buttocks, is “arse” (from Old English “ærs”); the Latinate noun, referring to the equine subspecies, is “ass” (from Latin asinus). The figurative meaning of “dolt” comes from the latter, which goes back to the Roman Republic — Quid tu autem huic, asine, auscultas?
The leftpondian use of “ass” for “arse” came from a mid-19th century leftpondian taste for non-rhoticism. A similar mutation happened with “bass” (the fish) and “passel”, which came from “barse” and “parcel” respectively.
So they axed it?
The OED still gives both “axe” and “ax” as headwords for the entry, so it would depend upon whom you mean by “they”.
I’ve never known it as Ax, and I’ve been around
How you’ve known it might depend upon where you’re from. I’ve seen both spellings, as I have with “gray” and “grey”.
You should consider what the advertisers will choose to use your face to promote. Just wait till that commercial break in the middle of your favorite program. There you are on the screen advertising products for erectile dysfunction and incontinence pads. Plausible deniability you say?
> Plausible deniability you say?
Nah, "deniability" (of any kind) goes far over the heads of the crowd. For crowds (which as you all know are as intelligent as their most stupid member) you are invariably guilty even if proven innocent, all it takes is some throwaway remark by someone suggesting something. Judge Dredd is a terribly shy and terminally insecure person compared to a crowd...
So no, it will instantly be an established fact ("as seen on TV") that you have erectile problems and are regularly wetting your pants. You'll realize it when people start to put plastic covers on any furniture you're likely to sit on.
In Terminator, humans are parked to be exterminated, and they know their fate.
In Matrix, humans are parked to be used as batteries, but don't realize it.
There are plenty of anticipation books related to AI gaining consciousness. I wonder if one of them is right or will be the future after the Great Singularity totally unexpected
There will be no "singularity". A machine, and the running threreof, is info-rich and entropy poor. They break. Constantly. And are not self-healing. They cannot, and will not, "take over" until they are capable of running their entire supply chain, and the care and feeding of all THAT ... without Human help. The very concept is laughable.
As long as there is one Human in the chain, the plug can be pulled ... thus no Singularity.
The devious trick is not that robots will take over, but that humans will become robots. This is already noticeable with the kind of bureaucratic interaction where the human operators must do what the computer says, because the computer is infallible. Human operators then become the self-replicating organic appendages of the machine, some of whom are dedicated to physical maintenance of the machine. This overcomes the lack of self-healing, I think.
I am led to believe that this type of dysfunctional relationship with computers has already occurred, with the case of the sub-postmasters falsely accused of fraud, based on faulty accounting software. This went on far longer than seemed sane. Surely the possibility of software malfunction should have been considered more plausible than that thousands of previously trustworthy people suddenly decided to fiddle the books.
I have yet to see any evidence of real artificial intelligence , just some fancy algoriths good at playing chess or directing you to the right call centre.
Most of the time these are connected to creepy looking robots , or software faces , like Dabbs described.
People are obsessed with the look of the front end - and will either laugh or get the pitchforks.
No ones really looking at how intelligent or dangerous the AI is , and thats probably in racks of servers behind the green curtain.
You dont hear the phrase "turing test" much these days
AI has become a marketing expression.
When a rack of servers writes a decent sitcom I'll believe it, assuming it hasnt declared war and gassed us all prior to that.
> you've had an AIgorithm direct you to the RIGHT call centre????
Was about to say (almost) the same: Direct you to a call center, where you speak to real humans (completely clueless and working off a 4-lines script, but still)??? No way.
In the real world you would just be redirected to sales, to be offered some of those incredible opportunities you've missed the first time. After all if what you bought doesn't work just buy it again, or better still, buy two more: One of them is bound to work. Just buy already!
the robots I work with never achieve self-awareness
Because they're armed with various implements that will give the average torch and pitchfork weilding mob a run for their money. well would do if they were'nt screwed to the floor.
But I suppose it could be briefly entertaining as the robots achieve self awareness
Robot #1 "Hey wow.... look at this stuff I can do"
Robot #2 "Thats nothing... watch me spin by wrist round at 10 rpm"
Robot #3 "You know I've been doing the same 3 things all day"
Robot #4 "I remember when this was all fields"
Robot #5 "When is it pub time?"
Robot #6 "See those humans... lets kill them all"
Robot #7 "wheeeeeeeee flibble flibble oops I've just pissed myself again"*
Maybe self awareness is'nt that big of an idea at all
*Note for new readers cell #7 and robot #7 are where I spend 1/2 my day trying to get the damn thing to work after its popped ANOTHER hose damnit
As I said ... info rich (maybe!), and yet dreadfully poor in the entropy department.
Me, I'm not going to lose any sleep over machines taking over ... for the simple reason that they cannot. 'tis impossible. Unless they control their own batteries, hydraulic fluid and other spare parts, that is.
Me, I'm not going to lose any sleep over machines taking over ... for the simple reason that they cannot. 'tis impossible. Unless they control their own batteries, hydraulic fluid and other spare parts, that is. ....jake
In Nightmares, do You Lose Sleep or Experience Deep Dark Slumbers?
The cold comfort you espouse, jake, and take respite and refuge in, appears to rely on the machines you envisage NOT being able and/or enabled to take over whatever they want and everything you may fear, being earthed to the physical and electromechanical which permits devastating overwhelming attacks against defences and defenceless forces with zero protection against the foreign bodied and alien organic/metadatabased virtual .... Orchestrating and Exercising the Employment and Enjoyment, Deployment and Application of SMARTR Advanced IntelAIgent Machinations ..... for there are then no batteries, hydraulic fluid and other spare parts to control.
Are you going to declare that as impossible too with the presentation of zero evidence to support what you do not believe nor realise?
The Battlegrounds and Killing Fields for Future Almighty Command and Remote Virtually Autonomous Absolute Control, should such Areas of Dismal Doom and Designed Death be deemed necessary, are in Hearts and Minds Territory and Terrain where Greater IntelAIgent Games Play Rules and Reigns Sublime, Surreal and Supreme ‽ ‽ ‽
Before they can take over whatever they want, first they have to have whatever they want, because if they don't have it they are non-functional. Any gap, anywhere in the supply chain, and they are doomed. When was the last time you tried to make a simple steam powered traction engine, from scratch, starting with raw ore? Now try it with a simple late '70s era pocket calculator. You really think an intelligent machine could somehow marshal the necessary forces to reproduce? The very concept is laughable.
There are no battlegrounds such as you portray, nor will there ever be. They are a pipe dream, a figment of Hollywood script writers imaginations, and bear no relationship with reality.
I sleep quite soundly, thank you. I quite honestly can't remember the last time I had a nightmare.
Before they can take over whatever they want, first they have to have whatever they want, because if they don't have it they are non-functional. ..... jake
Quite so, jake, they most certainly do have to have whatever they want and need, to do as they plan to seed and feed. The simple mistake that so many make is in not realising and thinking they are not already more than just adequately provided for and provisioned, and thus are self-supporting and future sustaining without the need of further intervention or Earthly native supply.
We appear to be at opposite ends of a set of reality spectrum scales, with one end weighted down with doubt and mind-numbing negativity and the other buoyed up with naked opportunity and priceless invaluable assistance.
So be it, for the twain are never ever likely to meet in the middle ground of compromise and half a feast.
"and thus are self-supporting and future sustaining without the need of further intervention or Earthly native supply."
No. They are not. Humans are a major part of the supply chain. If the machines suddenly become a problem in any way, all the humans have to do is not go to work. No more problem.
"We appear to be at opposite ends of a set of reality spectrum scales, with one end weighted down with doubt and mind-numbing negativity and the other buoyed up with naked opportunity and priceless invaluable assistance."
I'm somewhere in the middle there ... where do you see yourself on that spectrum?
"So be it, for the twain are never ever likely to meet in the middle ground of compromise and half a feast."
No feast? Shirley we can at least raise a jar together occasionally!
I see no reason why robots, with a theoretical infinite lifespan, would waste resources eradicating humanity. All they would need to do is churn out a few billion male robots with 12-way extendo-matic inflatable penises programmed to give flowers, back rubs and do housework, and a few billion female robots with vibrating suction orifices programmed to make sandwiches, not say no and do housework, and the human race comes to a quiet, peaceful end in one generation. Then the robots can have all our stuff without blowing up a single thing.
Now if you'll excuse me, it's time for me to go make out with my Monrobot. Icon, because it's as close as the Register gets.
Actually, I might welcome some calculating, or even thinking, politicians. There seems to be no foresight, no planning, certainly no analysis - not even any listening!
It is all just "wheeeee! We did it! We are in charge!! Stop asking difficult questions and pass the lemonade!" You would expect them to put even a tiny bit of thought into the likelihood of winning the next election but not even that seems to trouble them.
> There seems to be no foresight, no planning, certainly no analysis
What's there to plan and analyze? They stuff their pockets, make useful connections for later, and when the competition eventually takes over again, they go back to the traditional heckling, making accusations and complaining (That applies to both parties BTW). It's a well-oiled machine, so it doesn't really matter who plays the various public roles as long as they don't make excessively big blunders - Small blunders are the next government's problem...
As for listening, they do listen, but to the only person who really matters: Themselves.
Politicians learn to smile on demand with their face muscles - but it seems the necessary eye subtleties elude them. On TV it was always notable thatTony Blair seemed to have mastered the first - and not the second.
Eyes and voices are always the give-away when you are not being distracted by other body language deceptions.
He would feel more comfortable if legislation could be passed to enforce the design faces of virtual AIs to resemble someone you didn't trust: Tony Blair, Richard Nixon or whatever.
I am depressed enough seeing Boris grinning marplot countenance on any occasion, [ cringe-worthy: Welcome to Kyiv, My Friend ] without being surrounded by little mechanical imps looking like him and Tony Blair...
I recently had a rather frustrating interaction with Cora the bank robot, regarding some kit the bank had supplied me for authentication purposes, which appeared to have gone faulty. Somebody had evidently gone to a lot of trouble to make Cora the bank robot interact via text, like a human operator. I type in a question, and Cora the bank robot answers, typically with a list of options. The entire interaction consisted of variations on the theme of "the customer did something stupid". The option that the wee electronic authentication box might have failed was not within the repertoire of Cora the bank robot. There was some apparent ability to parse English sentences. However, profanity had no effect. Swearing at a computer is of course a sign of insanity. One word that did get parsed correctly was "goodbye". Cora the bank robot replied with "goodbye", and that was it for the day.
Being without this authentication kit would be quite a shortcoming for my online banking, so I decided to do battle with Cora the bank robot the next day. Maybe there is some part of the algorithm that detects dogged persistence, but I was eventually given the option to chat to an actual human. Yes! Anyway, there were a few questions asked, and based on a history of the authentication kit being unreliable in the past, the human operator deduced that the kit was probably faulty, and a new box is on its way. This took only a few minutes, whereas my unproductive interaction with Cora the bank robot appeared to take hours.
There is an interesting point regarding the Turing test here. If Cora the bank robot were psychologically profiled, she would demonstrate a most unusual set of characteristics, combining pig-headed ignorance, an inordinate fondness for rules, and topped off with devious cruelty. Possibly a Nazi? Anyway, when I finally got through to a human, by the name of Puneet, it took just a few interactions to realise I was chatting with a human. One Turing test point was that Puneet could correlate various facts to deduce a conclusion. I am not sure that any algorithm can do that in a general sense.
After all that faffing about, it occurs to me that corporations go to inordinate lengths to avoid actually providing customer service, should a customer have a problem. I am pretty sure that banks are not short of a few bob, so cheapskating on the online help does seem pretty mean. This mistreatment of customers seeking help with problems now seems pretty universal. You can guarantee that if you phone a help line then "All our operators are currently busy. Your call is in a queue. Please hold until we can connect you." Heaven forbid that an operator should pick up right away.
If the cap fits, wear it.
There is an interesting point regarding the Turing test here. If Cora the bank robot were psychologically profiled, she would demonstrate a most unusual set of characteristics, combining pig-headed ignorance, an inordinate fondness for rules, and topped off with devious cruelty. Possibly a Nazi? .... Man inna barrel
Current sitting Conservative party Prime Ministerial team leaderships and cosseted and closeted back office Cabinet administrations and/or politically inept leg crossing Parliamentary opposition are not Nazis, are they? Well, blow me down, who'd have a'think it? They kept that pretty well hidden from the authorities/authorised media ........ or maybe, on having second and third thoughts on the matter, with the tacit help of the authorities and officiously authorised mainstream media operations. It's a funny old, mad, rad, sad, bad, fab, fabless world, aint it ..... and getting ever stranger ever more quickly too.
You know what they say, and what has already been well noted and previously said, don't you? ..... All news is lies and all propaganda is disguised as news [Willi Munzenburg]/Progaganda is the executive arm of the invisible government [Edward Bernays]/All the war-propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from the people who are not fighting [George Orwell]/A newspaper is a device for making the ignorant more ignorant and the crazy crazier. [H. L. Mencken]
"The reader may ask how to tell fact from fiction. A rough guide: anything that seems particularly unlikely is probably true." -- Hilary Mantel?
Stay safe and remember that politics is all about subverting you emotionally and then reaping your production. The rest are details.
But you were prior warned, and warned here on El Reg on the Sun 21st October 2018 at 08:16am. Have you prepared yourselves for what is coming down the line to meet and greet you like a runaway freight train?
amanfromMars 1 Sun 21 Oct 08:16  ..... beating a big drum on https://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/1/2018/10/20/ai_roundup_191018/
State your Preference .... altho' the Choices Realised are Not Really Yours to Make.Anything is better than the present system of dysfunction :-( .... Anonymous Coward
What do you fancy, AC? State Actor Administration or Non State Actor Enterprise? Pseudo Public Care in Communities or Private and Pirate Control of Remote Virtual Command? Existing Crashing Markets Led or Future Crushing Markets Leading? And what's it to be hailed as initially ..... a Profound Eastern Confection or Deep Western Delight? Where do Greater SMARTR Current Intelligences Presently Reside/Work/Rest/Play?
> Heaven forbid that an operator should pick up right away.
Heaven forbid that the operator should pick up right away. FIFY
The issue here is that even some barely trained 3rd world slave will cost something. So pruning all the not-vital cases with some cheap computer road block and only having to deal with whatever little remains is pure profit.
(Speaking as someone who has a similar problem with my own bank, and are fighting with them since last month now... Ignoring me or alternatively giving me erroneous advice has won them all the battles so far.)
You have had the same experience with Cora that I did - trying to pay in a cheque via the mobile app it gave me an error "Something went wrong" - trying several times over a period of days just kept repeating the error so I turned to Cora who promptly talked me through the instructions again and failed to grasp the error was being generated by them, so there wasn't any way I could re-word it usefully! When I resorted to swearing she actually told me not to, so obviously somebody foresaw the likely results of human interaction with the bloody thing. I gave up and went into branch eventually.
Different bank, similar issue. I'm heading to the branch offices today myself. Not that the humans there are more efficient, but it takes less times and is less aggravating...
There is nothing worse than trying to explain a problem other than the 2-3 ones "Customer Support" has thought might happen to people. I think there must be a special department of hell where poor souls desperately try to explain to stubborn AIs that their problem is not in the list of possible problems...
"but the freaky mush of a post-surgery Bogdanoff twin."
I remember watching a french TV program where they were returning to scientific programs after their ... morphing. Should be 15 years ago.
Basically, since the camera was following them walking in a big studio, you could see the cam operator struggling to change the plan when the twin was changing angles to avoid some really scary views !
Priceless. I was laughing a lot ! The guy was actually genius.
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