back to article Russian media watchdog bans Google from advertising its services

Russia's communications scold is fed up with all the misinformation online, at least with regard to Google and its YouTube subsidiary. Roskomnadzor, the agency charged with monitoring and controlling media in Russia, introduced "coercive measures" that ban Google from promoting services deemed to be distributing "fake" – as …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Roskomnadzor

    Even the Russians recognize being banned by it is a badge of honor.

  2. NoneSuch Silver badge
    Big Brother

    “The past was alterable. The past never had been altered. Oceania was at war with Eastasia. Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia.”

    ― George Orwell, 1984

    1. razzaDazza1234

      Orwell should know, he did a lot of that for the BBC during WWII. Listen to the second part of The Road to Wigan Pier. It is nearly breathtaking how much he hated England and it's ruling of the world.

      He sprouts poetically on the beauty of Burmese men and milks his middle-class guilt (at not being ruling) endlessly.

  3. DrXym Silver badge

    Fascism 101

    It's funny how Russia screams about Nazis in Ukraine and then censors the news, fills people with propaganda / hatred, cracks down on protests, and commits brutal atrocities that wouldn't look remiss in Nazi Germany. They are the Nazis even if people haven't gotten the memo yet. Even today Russia decided to murder civilians trying to evacuate by train with missile strikes. I'm sure their puppets and useful idiots will be decrying this as more fake news.

    1. Tubz

      Re: Fascism 101

      Putin determined to snatch the crown from Uncle Adolf and Grandad Stalin as the most hated genocidal murdering war criminal in history !

      1. Someone Else Silver badge

        Re: Fascism 101

        I dunno. While Pooty-poot is making a concerted try for the crown, don't forget about Pol Pot, Idi Amin, and other non-European genocidistas.

      2. razzaDazza1234

        Re: Fascism 101

        Bush, Blair. Much worse than Putin. What about Mao! Commie killer.

    2. Rameses Niblick the Third Kerplunk Kerplunk Whoops Where's My Thribble?

      Re: Fascism 101

      Ditto Republicans

      1. Paul Herber Silver badge

        Re: Fascism 101

        Don't bring the Irish into this!

    3. Andy Non Silver badge

      Re: Fascism 101

      The Russian propaganda units are already saying the missile was shot at the train station by the Ukrainians at themselves. The Ukrainians seem to be shooting themselves a lot at the moment one way or another. Plus civilians are accidentally shooting themselves in the back of the head while their hands are tied behind their backs - neat magic trick.

      Apparently all the lies and denials from Russia are intended for the people back in Russia who are only fed state propaganda. Nobody in the west believes a word the Russians say any more.

      It wouldn't surprise me that once the Russian troops are all clear of Kiev, if the Ukrainians somehow manage to procure and drop a nuke on the city in a mass suicide attempt. Or that's how the Kremlin will spin it.

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge

        Re: Fascism 101

        Apparently all the lies and denials from Russia are intended for the people back in Russia who are only fed state propaganda. Nobody in the west believes a word the Russians say any more.

        Unfortunately people in the west are spending time and energy debunking this bullshit instead of just saying "that's bullshit, you drunk lying genocidal fuckers" leaving it at that. I guess this time and energy has to be spent to try and keep down the number of feeble minded followers of George Galloway and Tucker Carlson and similar who somehow believe it too.

        1. DrXym Silver badge

          Re: Fascism 101

          George Galloway is throwing a hissy fit because his Twitter account is tagged as Russian state-affiliated media. He's threatening to sue them even though only moments before proudly showing Sputnik & RT in his bio before removing them. I hope he does because I could do with the laugh.

          What is sad is he still exists on YouTube. I caught a bit of a livecast where he was basically throwing cold water on the idea that anyone could possibly know if Russia tortured and executed people in Bucha. Despite more than sufficient evidence to convince any reasonable human being that they did.

          Despicable doesn't even cover my views of him.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Fascism 101

            Is there a single brutal dictator he hasn't taken the coin from?

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Fascism 101

            Does anybody really care what "Cat" Galloway thinks?

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6ZDP8UhPys

        2. Jellied Eel Silver badge

          Re: Fascism 101

          Sometimes it needs debunking. Or just a bit of critical thinking. Or we have Boris, who's already convinced and is thus throwing a load more missiles into a conflict zone.

          But time to vex those thumbs.

          Both Ukraine and Russia use Tochka. It's been described as both a precision and imprecise missile. CEP's around 150m, so land somewhere in a 300m diameter circle around the aim point. There were witnesses who reported hearing 2 bangs. There were claims of 2 missiles, one shot down. There were claims they were cluster munitions.

          So 'precision' is mostly a propaganda thing, ie the station must have been the target. If missiles were intercepted, the station probably wasn't the target. The point of theatre defence is to stop missiles hitting what they're aimed at. The debris from the missile and interceptor still obey physics and gravity, and will land somewhere.

          Our dear leaders could reduce doubt by showing the launch being tracked. Interceptors record the engagement, so would show the trajectories. People would still claim it's fake, but for cynics like me, it'd be more compelling.

          And there probably weren't enough bangs. 2 missiles, 2 bangs. Except they were allegedly cluster warheads, so should have been lots of bangs. If they were HE, there should be a crater. If frag, it seems to have avoided the plastic chairs and all the station windows.

          Worst aspect was von de Leyen's part. Bit morbid wanting to see the bodies, and a bit disturbing that bodies may have been provided for a photo op. Normally you'd expect them to be moved into a building.

        3. TeeCee Gold badge
          WTF?

          Re: Fascism 101

          When the rabid marxist wankhammer George Galloway and right-of-alt-right jizzbucket Tucker Carlson are singing from the same hymn sheet you know that something, somewhere is so unbelievably fucked up that it isn't true.

          One's a narcissistic fucktard and so's Tucker Carlson.

          1. F. Frederick Skitty

            Re: Fascism 101

            The lecturer I had at college for Politics summed extremism up quite nicely - it's not a straight line from left to right, but a circle with the fucknuggets all congregating together.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Maybe

            Nobody believes Anglosxan-controlled media anymore ?

            Lying all the way through wars in Iraq, Syria, Yemen.

            Scaring the h3ll out of people to serve the interests of Pharma oligarchs.

            Covering up the corrupt POTUS and his bribe-collecting son.

    4. Steve Button Silver badge

      Re: Fascism 101

      this. Totally this.

      I see it on Twitter all the time. People saying it's a "fake war" and spreading all kinds of nonsense about not trusting MSM. I mean, I don't totally trust them myself and I've seen a lot of dodgy and biased reporting in the last couple of years, but that doesn't mean I think everything I see if now fake news. A lot of people really do seem to think that now, which means they are just really ignorant or they are actually part of the propaganda machine (i.e. They work for the Russian government either directly or indirectly).

      What can be done about these useful idiots? It's really annoying.

      1. Boothy Silver badge
        Unhappy

        Re: Fascism 101

        I've seen the same in the Steam forums.

        Quite a few Dev and Publisher, especially a lot of the smaller indie devs based in the East of Europe, are either based in Ukraine themselves, have friends or family there, or employees. So they are well aware of what's going on on the ground, as they are getting first hand reports.

        So some of these Devs and Publishers have been showing their support for Ukraine, such as helping to get people out of Ukraine (providing a room in their house in Poland etc), raising money and so on.

        This has been supported by the vast majority of people on Steam, but then you get the occasional one, who clams it's all a lie, that the Ukraine people are being protected by Russia soldiers from the evil Ukrainian Nazi government. etc etc.

        Very sad that these people have drunk so much of the Putin cool aid.

        1. gotes

          Re: Fascism 101

          drunk so much of the Putin cool aid

          They should probably check it for polonium or Novichok first...

      2. DrXym Silver badge

        Re: Fascism 101

        It's also funny how many of these Russia boosting idiots are also COVID deniers and MAGA enthusiasts. They've spent too much time in the company of bots.

        1. Steve Button Silver badge

          Re: Fascism 101

          What makes someone a COVID denier? Saying masks don't really work? (look at Scotland/Wales vs. England) Saying lockdowns didn't work at all? (they just didn't) Even now, saying that the vaccines are nowhere near as good as we were originally promised? (they don't stop you catching or spreading it).

          But that's not really the point. The point is when the BBC and most of the media didn't bother to report on the London anti lockdown protests, when everyone else could see them live streamed on Twitter and YouTube. Or when they did they tried to paint them as violent and right wing. Same in Canada. While at the same time reporting BLM and XR protests as "mostly peaceful". (they are biased towards protests the happen to like)

          Or when there was a complete media blackout on Hunter Biden's laptop just before the election, and anyone sharing the NYP story getting their account locked out. Which now turns out to be true. And we're still not hearing much about it, amazingly!?

          Or stories of "lab leak theory" being labelled as conspiracy and misinformation, when it's actually looking quite likely.

          This and 100 other things is why ordinary people no longer trust the media, and some people just don't trust ANYTHING that they read. And you can hardly blame them, can you?

          You call them idiots, but how are people supposed to know who to trust? (if you can't even trust Auntie Beeb any more)

          1. DrXym Silver badge

            Re: Fascism 101

            Answer - everything after your first question. ffs.

          2. Someone Else Silver badge

            Re: Fascism 101

            Don't worry Steve, Dr. Xym wasn't talking specifically about you. Was he?

            1. Steve Button Silver badge
              WTF?

              Re: Fascism 101

              :shrug:

              I don't know.

              I'm not sure why anything I said was wrong, and I'm not sure why it got so many thumbs down.

              1. razzaDazza1234

                Re: Fascism 101

                Dont woz, Steve.

                U didnt say anything wrong, u just got the mob on you. Pitchforks and flames will follow, probably.

                They dont wanna hear it cause then they'd have to admit that they have been strung along by old media who are using ALL the chessy cliche taken from deep within the dusty archives.

                It is: RUSSIA=NAZI (lol) UKR=Eleven Folk who must be saved from Sauron. I dont buy the innocent victim sh-t of UKR. It is like a small puppy poking a bear and then crying when the bear bites its head off. Dont mess with a bear if u are a puppy and definitely dont think the dog across the pond will back you up after u piss the bear off.

                And finally, never have a fool as king.

                1. Someone Else Silver badge

                  Re: Fascism 101

                  I think there are a lot more than 11 Ukrainians (at least, until Pooty-poot gets done with them).

              2. Sandtitz Silver badge
                Stop

                Re: Fascism 101

                "I'm not sure why anything I said was wrong, and I'm not sure why it got so many thumbs down."

                Let's see.

                "Saying lockdowns didn't work at all? (they just didn't)"

                Of course they did work. Obviously, they didn't end the virus, but they allowed for hospitals to better deal with the number of patient who required intensive care. There are a finite number of intensive care rooms/locations for patients. Most required respiratory devices which are/were not available at quantities needed.

                There are also a finite number of nurses and doctors to care for the patients. Around the world the personnel have had to work a lot of extra hours with inevitable burnouts.

                Also, letting the virus run rampant in millions of people makes it easier for the virus to mutate into something else. This has happened a few dozen times already.

                China is really tough on the lockdowns NOW, but had they locked down Wuhan back in 2019 when the fatalities started to pile up, perhaps the virus could have been quarantined and there would have been no pandemic. Impossible to say.

                "Even now, saying that the vaccines are nowhere near as good as we were originally promised? (they don't stop you catching or spreading it)."

                Uh, who promised that you couldn't catch or spread the virus?

                The vaccines were rushed in a fraction of time due to the ongoing pandemic. No doubt a normal, longer clinical testing phase on all of them would have made them better.

                There have been several studies on the Covid vaccines. In all cases it has been found to be way more safe for a person to contract the virus when they have had vaccination.

                "Or stories of "lab leak theory" being labelled as conspiracy and misinformation, when it's actually looking quite likely."

                Why do you say it is quite likely?

                I think it is quite unlikely. I'll back my statement with references as soon as you show yours.

                1. Steve Button Silver badge

                  Re: Fascism 101

                  I really don't have time (or energy) to go back through all your points in detail.

                  Lockdowns didn't "work" in the sense they have caused more harm, on balance, compared to the benefits.

                  Who promised the you couldn't catch or spread the virus? Faucci, Gates and Boris + many many others. It's all on YouTube with clips of them saying exactly that. I can't find the clip any more, perhaps it's been taken down as "misinformation"

                  About the Lab Leak theory, there's a great article in Vanity Fair (yes, really) which has plenty of references to respected sources, if you can be bothered to read it....

                  https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/03/the-virus-hunting-nonprofit-at-the-center-of-the-lab-leak-controversy

                  I would love to spend all day arguing back and forth about this (not really) but I'm exhausted from doing this for nearly two years, with people whose argument always boils down to "whatever the government says, that's the right thing"

                  1. Sandtitz Silver badge

                    Re: Fascism 101 @Steve Button

                    "I really don't have time (or energy) to go back through all your points in detail."

                    A pity. You did after all appear incredulous as to why someone would disagree with your post.

                    "Lockdowns didn't "work" in the sense they have caused more harm, on balance, compared to the benefits."

                    First of all, you wrote that the "lockdowns didn't work at all". Now you're just writing about mis-balanced government reaction to this.

                    You are entitled to an opinion, and it looks like that "didn't work at all" was just an opinion, not based on facts.

                    Lockdowns always caused harm to business, the economy and people in many ways. It also created/acceleratoed new types of business around remote working, deliveries, healthcare and whatnot. And also saved lives as I earlier said about not flooding hospitals by lessening their burden.

                    The virus outbreak was causing mass deaths from the beginning and it was not understood immediately. Better safe than sorry? There's a good Wiki article on lockdowns, with pros and cons.

                    "Who promised the you couldn't catch or spread the virus? Faucci, Gates and Boris + many many others. It's all on YouTube with clips of them saying exactly that. I can't find the clip any more, perhaps it's been taken down as "misinformation"

                    Every one of them on the same clip? Fishy. Fauci saying anything like that? Not happening - he's an immunologist with a Doctor of Medicine degree and seems to know what's he's saying. Plenty of people seem to have hatred against Fauci, so you may have watched a fake video.

                    In fact, it is easy to dispute Fauci saying something like that when there is plenty of evidence to the contrary.

                    Here's Fauci telling Congress that 'There’s no guarantee that the vaccine is actually going to be effective'. Similar Fauci quotes are plentiful.

                    I'm not sure of Gates' credentials, but Boris is a politician and facts don't seem to be his strongest forte. Policitians excel at promising things, not delivering on them. Similarly Trump downplayed the Covid outbreak for a long time and played his own political games to his own gain.

                    "About the Lab Leak theory, there's a great article in Vanity Fair (yes, really) which has plenty of references to respected sources, if you can be bothered to read it...."

                    I bothered. If you also bothered to read that long wall of text, then you'd easily bother replying to my messages.

                    The article speaks poorly of that Mr. Daszak and the Ecohealth nonprofit, shady working all around, but provides no smoking gun.

                    Trump administration would have been delighted if the the "Chinese virus", as Trump put it, to have actually been a man-made virus by the Chinese military. He claimed evidence of how it started in a Chinese lab, right after the Director of National Intelligence (Trump appointed Richard Grenell) said the virus not believed to be man-made or genetically modified. I'm pretty sure if there was reasonably high probability evidence to the contrary, it would have been flouted by Trump. Didn't happen.

                    "I would love to spend all day arguing back and forth about this (not really) but I'm exhausted from doing this for nearly two years, with people whose argument always boils down to "whatever the government says, that's the right thing"

                    You have read me wrong. I'm not arguing for the government here. I'm speaking from facts and my own experience. My wife's a registered nurse and still doing overtime work at the hospital Corona ward. For the third year now.

                    While Covid patients are not necessarily as severe as they were 2 years ago, the hospitals are still running at full capacity because lockdowns are no more and people are less careful with wearing masks, hygiene or keeping their distance.

                    Are you against all sort of government control - during pandemic or otherwise? Is your liberty worth more than others?

                    1. Steve Button Silver badge

                      Re: Fascism 101 @Steve Button

                      OK I'll bite.

                      I think we mostly want the same thing, so have an upvote. It's just that you seem to be making an assumption that NPIs work, including masking and lockdowns whereas I'm suggesting that if the government feels it should impose these things upon us, it should be for them to provide evidence that it's actually going to work. For the first lockdown it was forgivable, as no one knew much about anything.

                      I think if masks did work, we'd have seen some pretty strong evidence for that by now. Scotland and Wales vs. England has been a really nice natural experiment. Although it could still be correlation, you can only stretch that so far.

                      https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4046809

                      You are calling for more mask wearing, but you offer no evidence that they work.

                      I think you may be suffering from heuristic driven biases, bearing in mind what you are hearing from hospitals.

                      https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10706125/NHS-chiefs-call-return-masks-limits-indoor-mixing.html

                      It leaves a really bad taste in my mouth quoting the DM, but they seem to have been one of the few sensible papers on this particular issue, along with The Telegraph.

                      The data just don't agree with your assertion. Hospitals can't both be all at full capacity and treating well under half the Covid patients they were last summer... unless it's caused by the backlog, which in turn was caused by the lockdowns (and basically telling people to stay away from hospital)

                      I bothered. If you also bothered to read that long wall of text, then you'd easily bother replying to my messages.

                      Well I did read the whole long wall of text. I can see you did too.

                      The article speaks poorly of that Mr. Daszak and the Ecohealth nonprofit, shady working all around, but provides no smoking gun.

                      Agreed it's not a smoking gun, but how many coincidences do you need to switch from "unlikely" to "actually yes, it looks like it's quite likely now"? At least it's not verboten any more. So, perhaps some lessons to be learned there?

                      Trump administration would have been delighted if the the "Chinese virus", as Trump put it, to have actually been a man-made virus by the Chinese military.

                      I guess he wouldn't have been so pleased if that lab was funded by the US? Looks like there's plenty of blame to go around when the other shoe finally drops.

                      I'm speaking from facts and my own experience.

                      Experience, yes. I'm yet to see any facts, just opinion so far. Which is fair enough, as that's all I'm able to provide and mine just happens to be different from yours. I don't think we'll know who's right or wrong about this for a few years yet, and it really feels like a lot of people who share my opinions have been gagged and fear losing their jobs (including doctors)

                      https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/a-warning-from-shanghai

                      1. Sandtitz Silver badge

                        Re: Fascism 101 @Steve Button

                        OK I'll bite.

                        Cheers!

                        https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4046809

                        You are calling for more mask wearing, but you offer no evidence that they work.

                        Sorry. I'm not saying there is a 100% protection. Similarly I don't expect seat belts and airbags to save people in all sorts of crashes. This study from February 2022 found that even cloth masks lower the odds of contracting the virus by 50%, and the surgical/N95 masks lowered the chance even further.

                        I wouldn't normally quote Sky News, but they have a collection of scientific studies about wearing the mask.

                        I also found a Danish study finding that masks didn't help the wearer.

                        In any case, the masks have another function - infected people wearing them are less likely to infect others.

                        "I think you may be suffering from heuristic driven biases, bearing in mind what you are hearing from hospitals."

                        Perhaps I should mention here that I am from Finland and I'm not that aware the situation in UK hospitals.

                        "The data just don't agree with your assertion. Hospitals can't both be all at full capacity and treating well under half the Covid patients they were last summer... unless it's caused by the backlog, which in turn was caused by the lockdowns (and basically telling people to stay away from hospital)"

                        The patients numbers and Covid cases have grown a lot lately in Finland, perhaps because the restriction in restaurants, (night) clubs and such were gradually and the fully lifted. The latest Omicron (?) variant is reportedly less lethal and more of a case of influenza. People stay home unless they need hospital care. The graph on UK doesn't look much different from us...

                        Our hospitals have many times more patients than they did in 2020 or 2021 at any point. Mangled through Google translator, this page shows the Finnish hospital status and the number of hospitalised and dead has grown steadily since last summer. (the controls won't work and the translation isn't perfect, sorry)

                        "I guess he wouldn't have been so pleased if that lab was funded by the US? Looks like there's plenty of blame to go around when the other shoe finally drops."

                        True.

                        Experience, yes. I'm yet to see any facts, just opinion so far. Which is fair enough, as that's all I'm able to provide and mine just happens to be different from yours.

                        We agree to disagree then. :)

              3. Citizen of Nowhere

                Re: Fascism 101

                >I'm not sure why it got so many thumbs down.

                You surprise nobody.

        2. This post has been deleted by a moderator

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Fascism 101

        Re Propaganda

        How many people *outside of the UK* think that Brexit was a good move for the interests of the UK?

        1. razzaDazza1234

          Re: Fascism 101

          Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes.

          I love it.

        2. VicMortimer
          FAIL

          Re: Fascism 101

          We pretty much consider the Brexiteers to be idiots.

          It was a good move for the interests of Putin. Horrible move for the UK. Maybe a good move for reunited Ireland, though.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Fascism 101

            We pretty much consider the Brexiteers to be idiots.

            Or people like Boris and his Eton chums who, via the companies they own, stand to make a *lot* of money out of it.

      4. heyrick Silver badge

        Re: Fascism 101

        Useful idiots? Useful?

        So not the word I would have gone for.

    5. John Doe 12

      Re: Fascism 101

      The Putin administration even created Hitler youth style camps back in 2005 with the sole purpose of brainwashing teenagers. The name of the organisation is "Nashi" which almost reads as Nazi!!! Maybe Russia is full of mirrors and when they are screaming at the Nazis in reality it's like a dog barking at it's own reflection :-D

      A good article on this can be found here:

      https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/jul/24/russia

    6. Bathrobe

      Re: Fascism 101

      I don't disagree with this as such, but please remain skeptical about what our media and government are feeding us. Don't be fooled into thinking it's only the Russian media that pump out disinformation and propaganda.

      Certainly in the UK the current government seem to be less willing to entertain peaceful protest and have used the charade of Brexit, Covid and now the Russian invasion of Ukraine to limit our freedoms.

      1. anthonyhegedus Silver badge

        Re: Fascism 101

        ... "charade of Brexit, Covid and now the Russian invasion of Ukraine to limit our freedoms."

        What utter nonsense! Brexit may have been bad overall, but the government isn't "using brexit, covid and Ukraine"to limit our freedoms! That's conspiracy theory bollocks! How do you work that out? Covid isn't over and it wasn't used to limit our freedoms - you've got it arse-backwards. Our freedoms were curtailed AS A PUBLIC HEALTH MEASURE not to limit anything else. And I can't see how Ukraine is being used in that way.

        yours is just the sort of childish and simplistic attitude that affects real lives.

        1. Steve Button Silver badge

          Re: Fascism 101

          Most governments would love to have more control of the population with mandatory ID cards and tracking. Jack Straw was a big fan and many Home Secretaries have tried to go down this path. This makes their job easier, so it's understandable... but this DOES limit our freedom.

          When you see "liberal" Canada freezing people out of their bank accounts and having them sacked because they donated a few $$ to a trucker freedom protest (which is bloody inconvenient to the government) you can see that actually some governments really do want to limit our freedoms.

          It's not childish or a conspiracy theory, it's happened in The West this year. And it's a slippery slope.

          1. Jim Mitchell
            Devil

            Re: Fascism 101

            "When you see "liberal" Canada freezing people out of their bank accounts and having them sacked because they donated a few $$ to a trucker freedom protest"

            The counter argument is that people who give money to criminals to fund their criminal acts should risk getting their fund frozen.

            1. Steve Button Silver badge

              Re: Fascism 101

              I think your are getting your protests muddled up. The criminals are the BLM protesters who have stolen millions of dollars to buy mansions. The Canadian truckers we're having a peaceful protest. With bouncy castles and hot tubs. Embarrassing, but not illegal.

              While CNN reported BLM protests as largely peaceful... With buildings burning in the background.

              Now tell me why we should trust the media?

              1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Fascism 101

            Doh a majority of countries do have mandatory ID cards and it doesn't limit their freedom.

            Remember too, that you at least have the privilege to be able to vote out your shit government...

            .. though never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers....

          3. ravenviz Silver badge

            Re: Fascism 101

            "Most governments would love to have more control of the population with mandatory ID cards and tracking"

            Which most?

            You mentioned Jack Straw 'tried', but obviously failed. Boris has been quite plain that controlling our population is simply not the British way. You may like to think that is a cloak and dagger tactic, or you can believe it is the truth.

            I don't think I've ever heard of any conspiracy theory that actually turned out to be actual fact!

        2. Bathrobe

          Re: Fascism 101

          Seems like a bit of an overreaction there. I should probably clarify, I meant while all of these other big news stories are going on, the UK Gov have been quietly eroding our freedoms, passing bills or trying to pass bills that would otherwise get more scrutiny in the media. For example the police, crime and sentencing bill was barely talked about in the popular media.

          Now I appreciate you're anger at baseless conspiracy theories, I too get quite worked up about such things. But I really wasn't suggesting anything along those lines.

        3. This post has been deleted by a moderator

    7. razzaDazza1234

      Re: Fascism 101

      Should be Communism 101.

    8. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

      Re: Fascism 101

      I saw a TV segment that involved a Ukrainian grandmother who was comparing the Russian troops to the WW2 Germans:

      "They do the same things as the Germans did - the only difference is that we can understand the Russians"

  4. Electronics'R'Us Silver badge
    Devil

    Witty comment

    I saw this [1] on a site earlier today.

    To: V. Putin

    Subject: Personal invitation

    Most esteemed V. Putin. you are personally invited to attend (at our expense) a Special Awards Ceremony to be held in your honour. You are invited to bring your most senior staff as they too are deserving of such awards, although not as prestigious as yours.

    The location is The Hague, Netherlands.

    Felicitations

    The Organisers

    [1] Expanded a bit to stroke his ego...

    1. razzaDazza1234

      Re: Witty comment

      yeah and bring Blair, Bush. And Chruchill. He was technically a war criminal too, but was lucky to be on the winning side (bombing of Dersden was intended to target civilians = war crime)

      What about Saudi Arabia and Yermen? What about Qatar with despicable rights for women?

      That high horse u are on only has 3 legs.

      And Chinese man say "1 finger pointing forward to blame, usually means 3 fingers pointing back at the pointer."

      1. ravenviz Silver badge

        Re: Witty comment

        I think this has been downvoted unfairly.

        And thus I expect to be downvoted for saying so!

        There is definitely a conversation about the bombing of Dresden being a war crime, but this is also a lesson from history, that you don't go about bombing civilians...

        WW2 was a God awful mess that we seek to avoid repeating!

        1. EvilDrSmith Silver badge

          Re: Witty comment

          I think (I admit I'm not certain) that the Geneva Convention providing protection to civilians was implemented after WW2 (probably in part due to the bombing of civilian areas).

          Laws are not retrospective.

          If bombing Dresden (Tokyo/Coventry/Rotterdam/Warsaw/ Singapore/etc) was a war crime, then there must be a law (international agreement) that prohibited it.

          It may have been (depending on point of view) immoral, but that doesn't make it a war crime.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Violent Tank Tourism

    One side effect of this awful situation is seeing just how ineffective tanks are in a modern war.

    1. ravenviz Silver badge

      Re: Violent Tank Tourism

      I agree with your comment but even the idea of any war is anachronistic. Humanity needs more than ever to co-operate. And it's women who are holding it together, making sure we survive. Men can STFU and get with the survival plan! I am a man and more than rather ashamed by the actions of men at every level (although we're not all bad!).

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Condolations

        You are such a sorry victim of LUBJNAKA brain-effing.

    2. imanidiot Silver badge

      Re: Violent Tank Tourism

      Not really. What we are seeing specifically is how vulnerable cold-war era soviet tanks are when used in isolation against scattered but entrenched enemy forced with modern man-portable anti-armour weapons. That tanks are vulnerable (even to weapons as simple as the soviet RPG-7) when maneuvering/operating in isolation is a lesson already learned by the US forces long ago in Afghanistan and Irak. Tanks need to be part of a combined force with infantry and other armour to provide support and cover against anti-tank weapons. Especially in (semi)urban environments.

      1. Neil Barnes Silver badge

        Re: Violent Tank Tourism

        Shh! The Russians might hear you!

      2. Cederic Silver badge

        Re: Violent Tank Tourism

        A lot of very informed people are having a lot of very intense discussions on this.

        The lack of infantry support for the armour is criminal but you could keep the tanks uselessly two miles behind the infantry squads and it still wouldn't help. Drone spots tank, someone sat in a ditch 4km away uses the remote control to target tank, hits 'fire', records it on their mobile phone.

        We watch in fascination from our safe warm houses thousands of miles away : https://twitter.com/war_noir/status/1503096030795120651

        (A more recent video shows a Stugna-P being used to shoot down a KA-52 helicopter too)

        The vulnerability is significantly exacerbated by the greater ease of spotting and identifying armour, and non-line-of-sight attack options now available. Infantry support isn't alone going to address that.

        1. DS999 Silver badge

          Re: Violent Tank Tourism

          I've been saying for several years that manned fighters are soon to be obsolete as well. Those cheap drones that can kill infantry positions, and slightly less cheap drones that can take out a tank, can be scaled up and do the same to fighter jets.

          Simply give it a rocket engine for "go really fast for 10 seconds" when it homes in on a kill and just crash into it. If it misses who cares, there are plenty more and they'll be coming at the fighter from multiple directions at once. It can't possibly catch up to a fighter outside the range of that rocket engine but you can afford hundreds of them for the cost of one fighter and simply flood the combat zone. The fighter can easily pick a few of them off, but it would be quite impossible to take out even a majority of them. I expect we'll see this deployed (probably by China) within a decade, and all current investment in fighters will become instantly moot.

          While I'm betting China is already working on this, the US probably isn't because the Pentagon brass won't properly fund anything that would obsolete trillions in investment in fighters nor would the Air Force brass do anything to hasten the end of manned aircraft.

          It is the smaller forces that don't have unlimited resources or a military establishment that's resistant to fighting wars differently than the wars they personally fought like Ukraine's that do most of the battle innovation. I'm surprised those cheap Switchblade drones (the smaller version costs only $6000) ever made it past Pentagon procurement - obviously they assumed it would have limited applications or we would have had tens of thousands of them stockpiled instead of a few hundred. I'll bet they assumed it would only be used by special forces, and not regular infantry.

          1. Neil Barnes Silver badge
            Holmes

            Re: Violent Tank Tourism

            cheap Switchblade drones (the smaller version costs only $6000)

            Only six million for a thousand of them? Where's the kickback in that? Not worth getting out of bed for - gimme something that costs six million each!

            1. DS999 Silver badge

              Re: Violent Tank Tourism

              I don't know who makes it, but I'll bet they aren't a traditional defense industry firm. They will get bought out by one of the big companies like Boeing to prevent someone selling useful military hardware at a fifth the price of a toilet seat!

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Violent Tank Tourism

                AeroVironment.

                They've been around since the '70s, built the Gossamer Condor, the 1st successful human powered airplane.

            2. Cederic Silver badge

              Re: Violent Tank Tourism

              Ah, you want to be providing the T90 tanks to the opposition. Lucrative business, they'll be needing a lot of them.

              1. DS999 Silver badge
                Holmes

                Re: Violent Tank Tourism

                So you're saying the right business model is to sell tanks and planes at high prices to one side, then dirt cheap drones at cost to destroy them to the other?

                Genius! Where do I buy stock in your new company?

                1. Cederic Silver badge

                  Re: Violent Tank Tourism

                  London Stock Exchange, look for stock ticker BA.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Violent Tank Tourism

            You seriously think the US isn't working on this?

            Hint: Area 51 has nothing to do with aliens.

            Another hint: We're the ones sending Switchblade drones to Ukraine now.

            There's a thing the US military hates even more than obsoleting stuff: They REALLY hate losing.

        2. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

          Re: Violent Tank Tourism

          greater ease of spotting and identifying armour

          And compounded by the apparent inability of the Russian air defense units to spot and take down drones..

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Tanks == Deathtraps

        Get rid of them.

  6. Charlie Clark Silver badge

    Move along here, nothing to see

    "YouTube video hosting has become one of the key platforms spreading fakes about the course of a special military operation on the territory of Ukraine, discrediting the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation"

    Yeah, only official Russian sources are allowed to spread fake news! I can't wait for the one describing the murder, torture and rape of the invasion as "typical youthful high spirits on a spring break".

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Move along here, nothing to see

      Spring break is an American cultural imposition that has no place in modern Russia.

      Any Russian attempting to go on a "spring break" will be required to register as an agent of a foreign government.

    2. MiguelC Silver badge

      Re: Move along here, nothing to see

      They've already claimed that, in Bucha, the Ukrainians executed the people themselves or that they staged the whole massacre 'scene', even trying to show dead bodies moving (later disproved by video analysis - showing that it was due to raindrops on the windshield or filming through mirrors causing distortions on those images - and by satellite images showing those same bodies laying at the same places for days or even weeks)

      At least the original Nazis were good at their propaganda.

      1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

        Re: Move along here, nothing to see

        More damning is video material of executions and intercepted communications ordering it.

        However, as the Russians have demonstrated well for years: they don't need to be good lies, just lots of them. No doubt the people murdered by a missile attack in Kramatorsk station this morning while they were waiting to be evacuated will be portrayed variously as recruits on their way to a military training station, saboteurs, that from afar look like flies. Anyway, it wasn't Kramatorsk, just somewhere in Yemen with a fake sign.

  7. Altrux

    Muppetry

    Absolute imbeciles - do they actually think we're falling for Vladolf's nonsense at this point? They should be embarrased. Peskov is the new Comical Ali.

    1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Re: Muppetry

      In Russia they have no choice but to believe it, not least because they've been force fed multiple conflicting narratives for years.

      More worring is when you see some of the reports trotted out on networks like Fox (Breitbart is presumably full of it) with millions of people more than happy to believe it.

      The only "bright" spot this week may have been the death of Zhirinowski who was invaluable to Putin because he was even more extreme. But after a lifetime of service to Mother Russia and, even after 7 alleged COVID vaccinations, he died of COIVD.

      1. An_Old_Dog Bronze badge

        Re: Muppetry

        @Charlie Clark, re: "...force-fed multiple conflicting narratives".

        In a healthy, functional society, it is natural that there will be conflicting news reports, as each news organization has its own slant and biases. It's the citizens' duty to evaluate these conflicting reports, taking those slants and biases into consideration.

        If I lived in a place where all the news reports were identical, I'd get scared, because the identical reports would mean the news was being centrally-controlled.

        1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

          Re: Muppetry

          That's the elegance of the Russian system, which includes obviously fake footage along with carefully crafted stuff. Enough of the stuff and people get confused, give up and go with whoever they trust the most.

      2. cookieMonster

        Re: Muppetry

        he died of COIVD.

        Or so they claim!

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Is that the same as the US referring to their actions in Vietnam as a 'police action'?

    1. An_Old_Dog Bronze badge
      Headmaster

      Review the history, please.

      It was the *Korean War* which was called a "police action", not the Vietnam War.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Review the history, please.

        YES and they LOST both of them,

        despite the statements otherwise.

    2. LDS Silver badge

      You mean the war where Russia and China moved and helped North Vietnam to invade the South, just like in Korea? South Korea was luckier they didn't fall into the North hands. Vietnamese weren't so lucky.

      Those were all proxy wars against the West promoted by Stalin and Mao. Just they hid behind those countries, and let them sustain the death toll, although China had to intervene in Korea when the North was about to be defeated wholly.

      Nasser was another idiot who believed them (together the Assads) - just to find his troops, even with large Russia support, unable to stand far better trained, armed and motivated soldiers.

  9. paulr78

    I stand with Ukraine. I condemn Russian aggression. I condemn Russian atrocities. I wear a mask.

    Yemen! What's a Yemen?

    1. LDS Silver badge

      Yemen is a place where there is the usual massacre between Shiites and any other Sunnite version - the former usually backed by that great democracy which is Iran. It's the classic war when you can't really tell who is better, like the Iraq-Iran war. Saudi Arabia for example isn't liking that it can get the help it would like - and MBS too became "unwelcome" after the Kashoggi killing.

    2. ravenviz Silver badge

      Are you high?

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Painting into a corner

    Putin has royally screwed himself.

    His exit strategy is somewhat limited now.

    Run away (spun as a win) or go for broke (nuke)

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Painting into a corner

      Remember 1812? Napoleon captured Moscow only to find the Russians had destroyed it and then (mostly) departed. Putin is going to be able to claim victory by finally capturing Mariupol to find it's been destroyed - after 6 weeks of bombardment *by Russia*.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Doublespeak

    Can one still advertise, sell, buy, carry or admit to owning Tolstoy's masterpiece "[censored] and [censored]" in USSR version 2

    1. Jesthar
      Black Helicopters

      Re: Doublespeak

      Yes, but you have to ensure it is the updated 2022 version - "Special Military Operation and State Imposed Peace"

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