back to article Windows 11 growth at a standstill amid stringent hardware requirements

The growth of Microsoft's flagship operating system, Windows 11, appears to be slowing if figures from AdDuplex are to be believed. Instead, Windows 10 continues to dominate, an indicator that either users are not upgrading or – and this is probably more likely – Microsoft's stringent hardware compatibility requirements are …

  1. Duncan Macdonald

    Why move to Windows 11 ?

    Unlike the difference between Windows 10 and Windows 8, Windows 11 provides very little benefit compared to Windows 10 and several reported disadvantages. A lot of the Windows 11 changes seem to have been done just to some designers whim not for any customer benefit.

    So far Windows 11 is following in the tradition of every second Windows release being one to avoid (2000, Vista, 8 and now 11).

    The only good reason at the moment for running Windows 11 is if the hardware is not supported by Windows 10.

    1. 43300

      Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

      2000 was decent - it was the contemporary consumer version, Windows Millennium Edition, which was shite.

      1. chivo243 Silver badge
        Thumb Up

        Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

        +1 for Win2000! Loved that one, really. Don't forget Win2000 Advanced Server version either! My boss at the time was running that as his workstation OS.

        1. bombastic bob Silver badge
          Devil

          Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

          with the exception of ME, I pretty much liked windows 3.x (and NT) through XP. After that, not so much...

          The only post XP version that is any decent is 7. The rast *ALL* *STINK* (starting with server 2k3)

          1. Potemkine! Silver badge

            Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

            Win95 was a nightmare, with its dozen of BSOD a day

        2. emfiliane

          Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

          Same here! AS was a great platform to jump-start an IT career on; mine was bought at auction having come from an early victim of the dot-com bust. Unfortunately, my first course in network security was months away, and I had a direct connection to the internet... I got a crash course in securing vital services even before I started uni. The good ol' days of Messenger spam and Code Red hitting all these automatically enabled IIS instances. I'm sure I did a hash job really sorting it all out, but it put me way ahead of classmates who only had 2000 on lab systems, and it got me a decent career.

      2. emfiliane

        Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

        Probably forgot that Me even existed. I know I've tried my hardest to excise that memory from my brain.

      3. Totally not a Cylon

        Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

        The only real problems I had with ME was its tendency to install the win2k driver instead of the ME one and on one batch of motherboards I had to turn off the cpu cache (yikes!) and rest my hand on the mouse to get it to install! Seriously, if I took my hand off the mouse the installer crashed but just sitting with my hand on the mouse and it worked!

    2. The Man Who Fell To Earth Silver badge
      FAIL

      Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

      I manage a fleet with about 2/3 of the machines meeting the Windows 11 hardware requirements and 1/3rd don't. Those 1/3rd have a useful life of another 5 years easily. Everything is staying at Windows 10 until everything can run Windows 11. Microsoft has no valid reason to have the hardware requirements it does for Windows 11. If they want wider adoption, revert the hardware requirements to what Windows 10 needs today.

      1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

        Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

        I'm 'upgrading' to Win11, or maybe Fedora. Assuming my new games PC ever arrives. Replacement is mainly out of necessity because the old PC is very dead.

        But after 10yrs of good service, if it was still running, I'd probably still be using it. Despite being ancient, it ran pretty much every game I wanted to play. Ok, maybe not in 4K@120fps, but 1080p was fine for me.

      2. Someone Else Silver badge

        Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

        From the article:

        It's easy to speculate that those users' PCs that could have accepted an upgrade (without tinkering), will now already have been upgraded, [...]

        It may be easy, but it would not be accurate. Besides what The Man Who Fell to Earth said, I have a "compliant" machine which I have (thus far) managed to keep that WSH1 off of.

        Hopefully, it stays that way.

        1Warm Steaming Heap, for those of you who are not Firesign Theater aficionados

      3. Version 1.0 Silver badge

        Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

        Not supporting the Window 11 hardware requirements is a decent "feature" that's worth considering when you get a new PC.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

          Just bought a non-compliant with Windows 11 machine for family member. Use for 3 years or so on Win 10, change to Linux thereafter. Allows time to familiarise with Linux as dual booting.

        2. veti Silver badge

          Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

          Windows 10 support ends October 2025. If you're happy with a usable life expectancy of less than 30 months, knock yourself out.

      4. Woodburner

        Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

        Totally agree the hardware requirements for Windows 11 are ludicrous. I have a three year old Core i7 Gen 6 laptop with 8GB RAM that doesn't meet the hardware requirements. Yet Windows 11 upgrade has been offered to (and refused by me) a crappy Pentium N4200 laptop with 4GB RAM that runs dog slow with Windows 10. WTF? Are Microsoft actively seeking to push folk to Chrome OS, Linux or Mac? I'm reducing the number of Windows PCs in my estate to the absolute minimum and re-purposing any "older" PCs with Ubuntu. I'd do the lot if Photoshop and a few other applications were available natively on Linux!

        1. dhartsock

          Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

          I seemed to have everything MS was touting for running W11, but my ThinkPad is 6 years old. The only thing might be directX12. Sure seems pretty arbitrary, given what W11 brings to the table.

    3. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

      Years from now. The only thing that really matters in Windows 11 is the EOL for Windows 10. That's all CIOs will care about but by 2025 it's higly likely that many, if not most, corporate environments are virtualised and only need RDP.

      1. karlkarl Silver badge

        Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

        Exactly. Microsoft doesn't give a damn if we like Windows 11. Consumers *will* be using it, first at work and then at home once 10 is rendered unusable via "lack of support".

        1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

          Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

          Consumers *will* be using it, first at work and then at home once 10 is rendered unusable via "lack of support".

          Not here, I will keep Microsoft to its promise Windows 10 is the last version. Once I have to say good bye to Windows 10, it will be replaced by some Linux distro (and I may not even wait that long).

    4. JoeCool

      Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

      Windows 2K was an excellent product. A big improvement over NT - especially the desktop and app management.

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    7. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Linux

      Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

      The hardware that does not support Linux or FreeBSD does not get purchased by me. And for an employer or client to purchase it, when I am the one that needs it for doing work, same thing.

      So if it is ONLY supported by 11, chances are it would have to be heavily discounted before any normal person would actually want it...

    8. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

      I was so happy when I found that both my laptops weren't supported by W11 so I didn't have to worry about M$ deciding to "update" me when I didn't want it.

      I wonder whether I can find some more "won't run 11" boxes to put in the stock cupboard just in case.

      1. Ken Hagan Gold badge

        Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

        Is it still true that you can block Win11 by disabling secure boot in your bios (or whatever it is called these days)?

        1. MrDamage Silver badge

          Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

          Disable TPM, but yeah.

        2. Bloodbeastterror

          Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

          You can block W11 by having a £1500 HP Spectre with an I7 deemed too "old" for W11 to run.

          What a disgrace...

        3. 43300

          Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

          If it doesn't meet the published system requirements it probably won't offer you the upgrade. If you want to make extra sure then the 'hard' floor is TPM 1.2 and secure boot, so if you make either or both of those unavailable it won't install at all, even with a clean install (I have tested this).

      2. MrDamage Silver badge

        Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

        1st gen Threadrippers are going cheap on ebay.

      3. BobChip
        Linux

        Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

        They will both run Linux mint 20.3 - and it's successors - perfectly, probably for years to come.......

        But keep a few old boxes in stock, in case of "ballistic" accidents, which sometimes do happen......

    9. badflorist

      Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

      "Unlike the difference between Windows 10 and Windows 8,"

      What difference? Will this be the same "difference" between Windows 11 and 12?

      Windows users always complain about how the next Windows is not a beneficial upgrade, yet they still upgrade and will say the same thing ~4-5 years later. I think to a Windows user there has now been 5 upgrades without anything beneficial... you'd think a pattern would be recognized.

      1. hitmouse

        Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

        If you haven't noticed the substantial improvements across versions then you're in the wrong industry.

        1. captain veg Silver badge

          Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

          Care to iterate them?

          An operating system exists to do one thing: run application programs. If Microsoft wants to, or has, improved the apps shipped with the OS, well that's nice, but it's not an improvement to the system itself.

          So far as I cans see, though, the built in apps are not, in fact, improved.

          -A.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

          Upvoted conditionally

          1) on basis of it being applied to the "Good" versions, not the horror shows.

          2) Also applied to the service packs/updated that fixed the broken release versions.

          But yeah, there were huge jumps in security, functionality, and performance* between XP, 7 and 10, and to pretend otherwise is trolling.

          As for 11, it's probably a stinker, and most of us expect to skip in entirely and install the expected windows 12: Apologies edition.

          I love that the author did not list a single benefit that would result from installing 11 on a windows 10 machine. Kinda shoots their assertions in the rest of the article about why and how soon people are upgrading.

          * Bill giveth and Balmer taketh away, both 7 and 10 run pretty quick once you kill off the cruft, but that's really really hard in 10. But the core minimum of 10 is actually slightly smaller and boots faster than XP did. Just not in the real world.

          1. LybsterRoy Bronze badge

            Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

            --But yeah, there were huge jumps in security, functionality, and performance* between XP, 7 and 10, and to pretend otherwise is trolling.--

            Security is and has been taken care of with non-MS apps. Functionality - err the OS has been able to manage disks & RAM for ages. Performance - is that the OS or the machine (I genuinely don't know)?

            How much of the stuff currently built into an OS should be in an OS?

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

          "If you haven't noticed the substantial improvements across versions then you're in the wrong industry."

          eh, I don't know about that. It seems more like two steps forward, one|three steps back. Win2k was a great improvement both in the GUI and in the fact that the server dumpted NTDS and gave us Active Directory (not quite as good as eDirectory, but better than NTDS), we just didn't realize how ultimately dependent AD was on DNS for the first few years. Then things kind of puttered along for several years. XP wasn't much of an improvement over 2k, nor was 2003 a great shake on the server side. Then we got fucked by Vista, brutally and without apology. Yeah. maybe there were some improvements under the hood that nobody but hardcore techies noticed, but that was all overshadowed by the abortion known as UAC. 2008 was just lipstick on 2003 and a few tweaks. Windows 7 wasn't so much an "improvement" as a mea-culpa by MS. Server 2012 was a major improvement - AD got filled out a bit, powershell got smart, and you could now have two, count them, TWO, dhcp servers and the world wouldn't end. Windows 8 was Microsoft' forgetting their own recent past with Vista and charging ahead with a bunch of CRAP that nobody really wanted. You'd think those morons calling the shots would learn, but no. Windows 10 was Microsoft giving everybody the middle finger - don't like Cortana? Tough shit. Don't want to be pestered non-stop to upgrade your Win7 box to the new, free Windows 10? Tough shit. Still need to use Internet Explorer? Tough shit. Want to control whether or not your computer applies the latest updates from Redmond? Tough shit. Win11 is just more tough shit, served on an inedible TPM biscuit with rancid CPU-requirements jam. Don't like it? Tough shit.

          So there may be, somewhere, if you look close enough, a thread from version to version that shows various levels of improvement, but to generally and universally say each version of Windows was an "improvement" is false in every sense.

          1. 43300

            Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

            As regards the server versions, note that the functional level (which formerly corresponded to the OS version) hasn't changed since 2016.

            i.e. there have been no major changes which would require a new functional level, as they appear to be in the process of sidelining on-prem servers in favour of new, shiny cloudy stuff.

        4. LybsterRoy Bronze badge

          Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

          --you're in the wrong industry--

          That depends. I think the majority of people are "simple users" not techies. Even in those industries populated by techies (think software house) the intention is for "simple users" to use the product.

          So what substantial improvements have been made that the average "simple user" will notice? Move the stuff on the task bar from the left to the centre - <sarcasm> wonderful </sarcasm>

          1. DML71

            Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

            Been using it for a couple of months now and beyond a few graphical changes here and there I've can't say it's rocked my world but I'm sure there's loads of background improvements that I'm not aware off - performance is quick and snappy. Memory allocation to resources is supposedly better. I've been using Edge for years and I like the automatic sleep mode for tabs not used recently. Updates are quick and seem to require less restarts (I could be wrong). Any updates made from here on out can be designed for machines that have a minimum base level rather than trying to work on machines for up to 7/8 years old.

            Basically it works, will have continued support past 2025, has had a lick of paint. From a simple user perspective if your machine meets the requirements I haven't come across a reason not to.

            Plus if you don't like the task bar in the centre you can move it back.

        5. andy gibson

          Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

          You mean like taking away the traditional right-clicking of the taskbar to find task manager?

          1. Sp1z

            Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

            And the File Explorer context menu. Two clicks to get to all my right-click goodness? No thanks.

            https://www.techrepublic.com/article/how-to-restore-the-full-context-menu-to-file-explorer-in-windows-11/

            1. TonyJ

              Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

              Oh and try this:

              Win key + R -> CMD

              Ok you get a nice command window as you wanted and would expect.

              Now in Windows 7 - 10, if I hold shift and click on command interpreter icon to launch another copy of command, it launches PowerShell.

              Now I get it that PS is the default shell environment, and that is fine and all that, but if *I* as the user of the system has chosen to launch a command shell then you can probably expect I want *another* fucking command shell.

              Win 11 in and of itself isn't bad from a number of perspectives and it does seem snappy. What I find bad is the UI design elements that have changed for no apparent reason. Again.

              DNS - can be changed globally or per card but if you do it globally it sometimes (on my system at least) doesn't warn you of that and it overrides it if you set another per-card.

              Secure DNS is present. Good. But there's no narrative around what it does for your casual users.

              Getting into network settings alone can be multiple more clicks than it used to be or needs to be.

              And yeah no right-click task manager for me is annoying. I know there are plenty of other ways but my 20+ years of muscle memory kicks in.

              1. TonyJ

                Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

                Correction to myself - I meant to say in Win 7 - 10 it launches another copy of CMD

                In Win 11 it launches PS.

              2. X5-332960073452
                Happy

                Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

                Try Explorer Patcher - https://github.com/valinet/ExplorerPatcher

        6. Sub 20 Pilot

          Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

          I guess you must work for MS if you post such crap. An OS is just that, an operating system that lets my programs work on a machine that I have paid for. A shit, bloated turd of an OS using more energy to keep itself going than my car does in not an improvement.

          An OS which I paid for and is full of fucking adverts for it's own company's products and a lot of shite that I never want is not an improvement.

          Unless you are running NASA you do not need a PC with the minimum standards for this crap. This is not an improvement.

          The only thing that looks like being improved is the income stream to MS and it is time they were removed from the planet unless they start to behave.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @badflorist - Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

        My Windows XP has been pushed into retirement, first by AV vendors followed by Mozilla when they stopped supporting the venerable OS. It is still running but at first hardware failure it will die completely.

        Windows 7 is showing warning signs here and there but there's a good supply of old hardware and you can still find drivers on the Internet. This allowed me to skip Windows Vista and 8. Now Windows 10 might allow me to skip 11 but I'm not holding my breath. Telemetry, forced cloud login, ads and all that stuff are helping me consider alternatives. So the upgrade path I followed (Win 98, 2k, XP, 7 and 10) was not entirely without benefit but it was always a forced one.

      3. 43300

        Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

        Not many upgraded from 7 to 8, not in the business world anyway. Most of us went from 7 to 10 and skipped 8 completely.

        Home users buying machines wouldn't have had the choice, but most with 8 or 8.1 seem to have upgraded to 10 as soon as they could. When we needed to set up a load of users for VPN access from personal machines in March 2020 I had to get a load upgraded from W7 (we insisted on W10), but so far as I recall there were none at all with W8 or 8.1.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

          "Most of us went from 7 to ..." Linux? I did - keeping W7 for Windows applications.

    10. Francis King

      Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

      "Windows 11 provides very little benefit compared to Windows 10 and several reported disadvantages."

      The security is better. The processes are separated from each other, which requires features built into the CPU - or not, on my laptops. Without these features the software has to handle the hardware requirements, massively reducing the speed of Windows.

      Which is why the minimum requirements are there. Microsoft wants to provide a good experience.

      Since my laptops don't meet those minimum requirements, I have a choice of Mint or a new laptop. I may buy a new laptop. It just depends upon Microsoft's final support position.

    11. ITMA Bronze badge
      Devil

      Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

      Never in the field of human computing have so many been so glad of "non-compatible" hardware LOL

    12. milliemoo83

      Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

      2000 was decent. I much preferred it to XP. Me, was a pile of shite - that we can all agree on, but Win2k - not so much. Windows Vista was where things started tanking. 7 restored some of that tank, then 8 tanked just as bad. By the way... are we counting 8.1 as a separate release or just a service pack to base 8?

      1. ITMA Bronze badge

        Re: Why move to Windows 11 ?

        "By the way... are we counting 8.1 as a separate release or just a service pack to base 8?"

        Sticking plaster would be more apt..... LOL

  2. Fursty Ferret

    It's not the hardware requirements, it's just a bit shit.

    In my experience it's slower than Windows 10, system controls are now scattered across three places, it has ads baked in, it's less configurable...

    1. 43300

      I've been testing it on one of my work laptops since soon after it was released. It's not as bad as W8 (which we never depoloyed), but I can't see any compelling reason to start to move to it - it has no clear advantages over W10, and various things which will annoy users.

      There's also the matter of the hardware requirements - we still have quite a lot of computers which don't meet the pubished system requirements, and although I could probably get these to run it (the 'hard' floor for W11 with a clean install is TPM 1.2 and Secure Boot, which all of them can do), I do not want to risk this knowing that MS could break them with an update in future, nor do I want a split estate of W10 and W11 machines for an extended period - in the past I've rolled out the upgrades (XP to 7, then 7 to 10) to a pilot group, then when any issues had been ironed out worked through the rest quickly.

      Will have to see what happens in the next year or two I guess - the difference now is that with all the control which Microsoft have baked in for themselves, and the stated end of W10 support in 2025, it could be harder to avoid W11 than it was to avoid W8. That said, if businesses stick with W10 and there are still a substantial number in two or three years Microsoft may have no option but to extend the retirement date for W10 - they are going to be maintaining the codebase for it anyway as the server versions based on W10 (2016, 2019 and 2022) are in support well beyond then, plus there's the paid-for extended support which they normally offer big customers anyway.

      1. Nick Ryan Silver badge

        Windows 8 was totally and utterly pathetic.

        It featured the most retarded, brain dead and fundamentally broken from the start shell UI that was unusable on both touch devices and laptops and desktop PCs, which were easily the dominant PC form factor and still are. There were absolutely no positive points to come from the UI.

        A driver model that seemed to be broken from the start. When drivers did work they seemed to work OK, however most didn't and the amount of time wasted and lost through this was excessive, let alone the odd performance drops. 8.1 did improve this, a lot, but it was too little too late and the retarded UI was still in place.

        The Windows 11 UI isn't quite as dumb, but there are obviously shades of the same conceited blinkered "we tell you how to do things and you can't do anything else and definitely not customise our vision" attitude to it. Half of it feels like a "me too" interface trying, and failing, to ape other OSes and the rest is still inanely disjointed and it all feels like yet more of a push to subscription services from Microsoft than any form of actual progress for the user.

        There are no improvements in Windows 11 that couldn't easily have been applied to Windows 10.

        1. Number 39

          Windows 8 was totally and utterly pathetic.

          It's almost as if Windows 8 was designed to be installed on a tablet, that was used in place of a keyboard on the desktop. (With the addition of a regular screen)

          And the designer left Microsoft without telling anyone this.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Secure boot

        the 'hard' floor for W11 with a clean install is TPM 1.2 and Secure Boot, which all of them can do

        Wasn't secure boot originally a requirement for W10 but they seemed to drop this when they started trying to force W7 users onto 10.

  3. 43300

    They've also not been as pushy this time, compared to how relentless they were with the 7 to 10 upgrade. Most of our computers are WSUS or Intune managed so I can easily keep it off them for now, but we have a few which are standalone for various reasons. Most of these aren't W11 capable, but at least one is and I've been keeping an eye on that (I'm the only one who uses it). Think it's only asked once so far and I told it that I did not want to upgrade. That was a month or so ago,and it's not yet asked again.

    Of course, there's still plenty of time for themto ramp up in due course...

    1. Duncan Macdonald

      If you want to keep W11 off your PC

      Disable Secure Boot in the BIOS - W10 does not care but it will block W11 from being installed.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Devil

        Re: If you want to keep W11 off your PC

        I think this is a ploy to stop dual-boot Linux systems from working (at least, to stop Linux becoming attractive to unexperienced users), because Linux or any non-Microsoft OS cannot work on a system with secure boot enabled, without a signing-key from guess-who.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Remember the why

      The only reason Windows 11 exists is to support the big hardware vendors. It was supposed to push another hardware upgrade cycle. That was the whole plan.

      Then after they got the ball rolling on development, the pandemic happened. People went out and bought a ton of new machines, so paired with the launch delays, Win 11 completely missed the market timing.

      But M$ doesn't care at this point, just stay on 10. It will be supported for most of another human generation.

      So M$ will either "fix" 11 by adjusting the ridiculous hardware requirements and adding some reasons to install it that people actually care about, or people will wait them out again, forcing them release a 12 in a couple years time.

      1. Antron Argaiv Silver badge
        Linux

        Re: Remember the why

        Call me skeptical, but I suspect MS's seemingly more frequent push of Windows n+1 is more related to their goal of gaining as much control over your machine as possible.

        Certainly this is true in the home market, where the lucky Windows user is now subjected to avertising along with unblockable "upgrades". I suspect in the not-too-distant future, Windows will require some sort of "secure boot" hardware which will make installation of any other OS on said hardware impossible.

  4. tmTM

    High requirements

    My windows 10 machine loves to tell me it doesn't meet the hardware requirements for Windows 11.

    Would love to know what kind of powerhouse it thinks it needs, as it seems a 5800X CPU and 6600XT GPU don't cut the mustard.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The gas lighting by this company is becoming utterly unbearable.

      Is it me? Or is the Microsoft 'gas lighting' "This machine does not meet requirements" banner in Windows 10 update settings page getting bigger each month or every time you run Windows Update?

      And regards the new Microsoft Watermark 'feature' in Windows 11:

      My Watermark for Microsoft: "Get the f*** off my lawn (desktop), you're p*ssing on it right now".

      The gas lighting by this company is becoming utterly unbearable.

      Where are the regulators on this? Nowhere to be seen. Whatever way you look at it, the 'watermark' on Windows 11, is clearly a form of advertisement, that is exclusive to MS, that no one else can purchase. This is 100% abuse of their market share. No one else can buy that prime space on the desktop, and I'm absolutely sure, many companies would love to have that exclusivity, the centre of attention, in terms of 'eyeballs'.

      1. FIA Silver badge

        Re: The gas lighting by this company is becoming utterly unbearable.

        And regards the new Microsoft Watermark 'feature' in Windows 11:

        My Watermark for Microsoft: "Get the f*** off my lawn (desktop), you're p*ssing on it right now".

        Which watermark? The one that tells you that the software you've force installed isn't supported? MS may be trying to advertise us and track us all to hell but to complain that some unsupported software is telling you it's unsupported seems a little self entitled. Or would you rather some future update bricks your system as it assumes you've not bypassed the basic hardware checks?

        Sure, Win 11 runs on unsupported hardware for now but I suspect in the future it may well not do. (Otherwise MS are causing themselfs a world of pain with regard to customer dissatisfaction for no real reason). It's not stopped you, it's not bricked itself, it's put up a message that's saying 'Hey, you really shouldn't be doing this and you might regret it'.

        1. 43300

          Re: The gas lighting by this company is becoming utterly unbearable.

          They never did this sort of thing in the past. I'm sure many of us have run W10 and earlier on hardware which was technically unsupported - in the knowledge that there might be issues but from experience this was unlikely once it had installed OK.

          The difference now is that with this sort of thing there seems to be good reason to suspect that they might intentionalluy break it in the future.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: "Get the f*** off my lawn (desktop), you're p*ssing on it right now".

          "It's not stopped you, it's not bricked itself, it's put up a message that's saying 'Hey, you really shouldn't be doing this and you might regret it'."

          It's an advertisement, plain and simple. It's not a 'message'.

          A message can be turned off, THIS CAN'T.

          Microsoft clearly think they 'own' the user's desktop, to do this.

          They didn't ask politely if they could do this, they just did it.

          It's gaslighting, by any other name.

          1. Patched Out

            Gaslighting

            "You keep using that word. I don't think it mean what you think it means."

            1. bombastic bob Silver badge
              Headmaster

              Re: Gaslighting

              Gaslighting: shining a "fake light" on something in order to make it seem like something else, as if your own past experiences are no longer valid. It differs from distraction (pay no attention to the man behind the curtain) in that you're being told or shown things that try to make you "question reality", such as the reality of burning buildings in the background when the news reporter says it is a "peaceful protest" - the reporter is 'gaslighting'. Or, saying that a feature is "not an advertisement" when it most clearly *IS* one., would also be gaslighting. Your own eyes and ears tell you the truth, but "the gaslighter" is trying to convince you otherwise, by making you question your own concept of reality.

              1. Alan Hope

                Re: Gaslighting

                Watch the film "Gaslight" - it's old but interesting. Then you'll get what it means. It's a horrible form of psychological bullying involving manipulating another person's experience to make them think they are going mad.

                I don't see it being the right word here.

        3. Dave K

          Re: The gas lighting by this company is becoming utterly unbearable.

          There are fair ways of telling users, and annoying ways. A permanent watermark on your desktop is excessive and intrusive. It would be less of an issue if they just popped a footnote in Windows Update to point this out.

          Thing is, most people that run Win 11 on unsupported hardware are well aware of it. They've jumped through the hoops when installing it, so permanently nagging them about something they're already aware of is pointless and annoying.

          Still, "Microsoft" and "pointless and annoying" sadly seem to go quite hand-in-hand lately.

          1. DJV Silver badge

            "Still, "Microsoft" and "pointless and annoying" sadly seem to go quite hand-in-hand lately."

            Upvoted - though what do you mean by "lately"?

      2. Someone Else Silver badge

        Re: The gas lighting by this company is becoming utterly unbearable.

        My Watermark for Microsoft: "Get the f[uck] off my lawn (desktop), you're p[i]ssing on it right now". [elisions repaired]

        Love.

        It.

        Clearly worth an upvote!

    2. FIA Silver badge

      Re: High requirements

      [...]as it seems a 5800X CPU and 6600XT GPU don't cut the mustard.

      Go into the BIOS, enable fTPM, reboot.

      You now meet the hardware requirements.

    3. Piro Silver badge

      Re: High requirements

      You need to enable fTPM in the BIOS

      1. General Purpose Silver badge

        Re: High requirements

        Not enabling fTPM in the BIOS seems to be a reliable way to avoid W11 being offered or inadvertently installed, so maybe "need not to"?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: High requirements

          does that stand for fsck TPM? who actually *trusts* it? what exactly makes it *trustworthy*? are all implementations actually to be *trusted*? is it another security feature waiting to be a new low level exploit vector to be abused?

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            @AC - Re: High requirements

            Microsoft trusts it. They trust the machine will obey them when they will say a certain piece of software is not good for you. That's why they're pushing it hard.

        2. Piro Silver badge

          Re: High requirements

          Oh I don't disagree at all. I will have as little to do with Windows 11 as possible, I was simply responding to a technical question.

          1. General Purpose Silver badge

            Re: High requirements

            Just so - I meant no criticism! Well, not of you....

        3. BOFH in Training Bronze badge

          Re: High requirements

          I have heard of some BIOS updates which only enable the ftpm in bios, and not for any other fixes.

          So, be aware of what your future BIOS updates are for before doing them. And disable ftpm if it was enabled during a BIOS update.

    4. Trenjeska

      Re: High requirements

      Most likely due to not activating the tpm option in the bios

    5. Robert 22

      Re: High requirements

      There are likely some bios settings you have to fiddle with.

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: High requirements

      My workstation at home has a 2009 vintage Intel i7, some old DDR3 RAM an SSD (upgraded from a WD Raptor, remember those?) but the performance on Win 10 is still perfectly acceptable. It's not going to play brand new games or anything too fancy but it works fine for what I need.

      At work, in some labs we have HP Desktop that are around 10 years old with i5 CPUs and 4GB of RAM....they are totally happy with Win 10 so long as you don't expect to do masses on them.

      These are extreme examples, but how many 2/3 year old computers will effectively become landfill because the consumer things they need a new one to run Windows 11? MS probably agreed these requirements with the hardware vendors to boost sales as they realised Win 10 will run on a calculator if you let it......so nobody was buying new gear.

      1. Someone Else Silver badge

        Re: High requirements

        These are extreme examples, but how many 2/3 year old computers will effectively become landfill because the consumer things they need a new one to run Windows 11?

        With any luck, few to none.

        But w/ Micros~1 counting on the illiterati chasing the shiny (a.k.a. "Apple Syndrome"), I'm afraid that the final number will be higher than it should be.

      2. TonyJ

        Re: High requirements

        "...At work, in some labs we have HP Desktop that are around 10 years old with i5 CPUs and 4GB of RAM....they are totally happy with Win 10 so long as you don't expect to do masses on them..."

        Slap an SSD into them and you will see a spring in their step that'll pretty much match anything modern for those basic tasks.

    7. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: High requirements

      Yet my HP pentium silver processor powered laptop*, which is the slowest machine I've come across in a long time, is eligible to install Windows 11???

      * Five minutes to boot to a working desktop, 4GB RAM; 1.1GHz Silver N5000 CPU

  5. hitmouse

    Inflation and supply chain issues are not making hardware updates a priority item for most.

    1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

      Inflation and supply chain issues

      You are right on that but.... MS will not care one little bit. All they want is for everyone to be on W11 then they'll introduce OS subscriptions. $15.99/month + Tax per machine or VM.

      I know two fairly large SME's who are planning on ditching MS (Windows, Office, Teams etc) by the end of 2023. They are planning on using their existing HW estate and a load of Open Source Software. Some of their machines will keep running W7 but they are standalone

      I am sure that they are not alone in this.

      1. Peter2 Silver badge

        Re: Inflation and supply chain issues

        The real blocker from moving away from Windows used to be Exchange/Outlook.

        As Exchange has moved to the cloud that eliminated the requirement for Exchange, and therefore Outlook. Losing those meant that the possibility of running a different mail client came along, and the way that many business CMS's now run via browser killed off the requirement for windows on the desktop, which killed off the requirement for Windows server installs to manage the windows desktop clients.

        It's a lot more possible to do than it used to be.

  6. David Austin

    Wait for v2

    Windows 11 is stable thanks to it's Windows 10 core, but it's in a state of rapid flux, with features being added and changed at a rapid pace.

    We're waiting for the 22H2 build of Windows 11 before we unpack it and test it properly with business systems.

    In this way, it's pretty much the save as Windows 10; The RTM was a little wobbly, the November Update fixed the big issues, and the Anniversary update was Business ready.

    They'll probably be a little uptick then from business rollouts and new buy PC's coming with it, but I agree the strict hardware requirements are probably the limiting factor now.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Wait for v2

      "Anniversary update was Business ready" (1607)

      You clearly missed Windows 1809 update that deleted the contents of the user's folders (Documents, Downloads etc) on applying the update.

      Another update not long after that saw the C: Drive, recognised as RAW format (by the OS), causing chkdsk to destroy it (quite literally, you couldn't recover the data after chkdsk had attempted a repair).

      I still wouldn't class it business ready, last month's February 2022 update was as buggy as hell. The worse I've experienced for a while. Blue screens, complete meltdowns (Ctrl-alt-del to restart).

      March update has improved things, but still seeing what appears to be an ongoing memory leak from the March 2022 update, if you open too many browser windows or leave them open over an extended period.

      Microsoft need to decide on the Fedora / Red Hat model, and decide which OS Windows 10 or Windows 11 is their experimental canvas for testnig their crap. Choose ONE Microsoft, and stick with it. Either Windows 11 or Windows 10 but one of them needs to be a STABLE release, at the moment, neither is.

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Wait for v2

        "one of them needs to be a STABLE release"

        This is not an ordinary release. This is an MS release.

        1. 43300

          Re: Wait for v2

          It ain't just MS, unfortunately - seems to be the industry standard now. Even VMWare (whose updates have normally been pretty solid) released a couple of turds late last year - which were so bad that they had to pull them after release.

        2. Someone Else Silver badge

          Re: Wait for v2

          "It's a Micros~1 product...it doesn't have to work."

      2. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

        Re: Stable?

        That word is banned in the MS dictionary. As soon as something comes close, they F it up big time.

    2. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: Wait for v2

      Windows 11 is stable thanks to it's Windows 10 core (etc.)

      you're supposed to put the lipstick on the end that goes "oink"...

      1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

        Re: Wait for v2

        you're supposed to put the lipstick on the end that goes "oink"...

        But Microsoft thinks we wish to kiss the other end.

  7. ITS Retired

    Is anyone else seeing a major opening for switching to another Operating System?

    Some flavor of Linux, or Apple's Mac OS? Either, or both, applying themselves to take over the general business part of needed business software?

    Microsoft should not be trying to set new hardware requirements as a goal, but to work on a stable, reliable OS and software, with the IT department and stable, ease of use for the end user in mind. MS is failing miserably.

    1. 43300

      Re: Is anyone else seeing a major opening for switching to another Operating System?

      Why would anyone move to MacOS to escape hardware lock-in? It's far worse than Windows 11 for this!

      1. 43300

        Re: Is anyone else seeing a major opening for switching to another Operating System?

        Perhaps the thumb-downer would care to explain in what sense MacOS is not more hardware-restrictive than W11?

        1. WolfFan Silver badge

          Re: Is anyone else seeing a major opening for switching to another Operating System?

          The Hackintosh sitting two desks away says that it is quite possible to install macOS on non-Apple hardware. Unlike the Mac mini that this is being written on, it actually supports the latest version of the OS. And that Mac mini is running a version of the OS which is officially unsupported. Meanwhile, zero point zero of my Windows boxes can be hacked to run Win 11. The main Windows box at home is about the same age as the Mac mini… which can be hacked to run the latest version, if I felt like it, but the Win box cannot physically be made to run Win 11 under any circumstances. Hell, I can run Win 11 in a VM on one of the other Macs, but not on any physical Win boxes! MS has gone way beyond anything Apple ever did!

          1. 43300

            Re: Is anyone else seeing a major opening for switching to another Operating System?

            You still have the same issue of the significant possibility of updates breaking it though - plus MacOS on Intel (which I assume this is) is almost certainly a dead end.

          2. J. Cook Silver badge
            FAIL

            Re: Is anyone else seeing a major opening for switching to another Operating System?

            And that Mac mini is running a version of the OS which is officially unsupported.

            And that is why corporates will not do it, plain and simple. If Apple won't support the OS running on anything but their own hardware, then corporates won't do it because if it breaks, they want to be able to have the vendor fix it.

        2. hoola Silver badge

          Re: Is anyone else seeing a major opening for switching to another Operating System?

          I would assume that they are looking at the limitation of iOS only running on a very specific set of hardware. You have no choice of vendor at all.

          At least with Windows & Linux you can have a choice of the hardware.....

          1. Nick Ryan Silver badge

            Re: Is anyone else seeing a major opening for switching to another Operating System?

            At least with Windows & Linux you can have a choice of the hardware.....
            Had a choice of hardware, Microsoft are currently issuing entirely arbitrary hardware requirements for Windows 11 (which is nothing more an update to Windows 10)

    2. Andy E

      Re: Is anyone else seeing a major opening for switching to another Operating System?

      I have a laptop and a desk top that quite happily run Windows 10 and are fine for what they are used for. However, they don't meet the requirements for Windows 11. Assuming they continue to run and have the performance needed, I will be moving them to Linux Mint when W10 goes EOL.

      I expect this (Linux) will be the fate for many W10 boxes which is probably a good thing. Why throw away a perfectly good computer?

      1. Someone Else Silver badge

        Re: Is anyone else seeing a major opening for switching to another Operating System?

        Assuming they continue to run and have the performance needed, I will be moving them to Linux Mint when W10 goes EOL.

        Why wait? Do it now. Get the experience under your belt, work with Wine (and Steam, if you're a gamer), and be the local Subject Matter Expert when those around you realize they need to make the same choice.

    3. MJI Silver badge

      Re: Is anyone else seeing a major opening for switching to another Operating System?

      The main techibcal reason to run Windows is WIN32 / 64 API

      If you can get your software multi platform byebye MS

      1. Hogbert

        Re: Is anyone else seeing a major opening for switching to another Operating System?

        Windows 11 is helping developers make that move away from win32.

        I tried to install VB6 (to provide support to an old client) and it refused, claiming it could introduce security vulnerabilities.

        Had to install it on a win 10 virtual instance instead.

    4. Peter D

      Re: Is anyone else seeing a major opening for switching to another Operating System?

      Corporates will never shift the hoi poloi to Macs. The vast majority of their users send emails, write Word documents, watch cats being cats on YouTube and order shit off Amazon. Moving to very expensive and very fragile Macs makes no sense.

  8. DarkwavePunk

    Sodding bogshite.

    I managed to get windows 10 to install on an ancient ExoPC demo unit I got from some Intel conference nearly a decade ago. It was meant to run Meego as the OS which dates it somewhat. Sounds like a Harrier Jump Jet taking off, and could probably be used as a very loud impromptu version of Air Hockey. It did fucking work though. Now my old-ish i7 laptop with 16G of RAM with a discrete graphics card can't even run Win 11. Not that I particularly want to anyway.

    1. 43300

      Re: Sodding bogshite.

      I've had Windows 10 running on all sorts over the years. Two years ago when we rapidly had to institute home working and new laptops were rarer than rocking-horse shit, I had to get a load of users set up for VPN access from home using personal computers, and there was some awful shite among those machines! Got them all upgraded to W10 in the end though. An'd I've not encountered any issues of updates breaking it.

      I can only recall one machine which I could not get to work - a laptop which came with XP (so old even by the time W10 appeared), where W10 would not support the graphics chip and refused to install. That's one out of a lot, unlike W11 where even perfectly decent business machines of three years old will not run it without the ongoing risk of an update breaking it.

  9. Ghostman
    Holmes

    Wasn't Win 10 suppossed to be

    The last version of Windows with only incremental updates? I seem to recall that when MS was trying to roll out this was one of the features of installing it over your copy of 7 or 8.

    If so, why hasn't anyone sued MS for false advertising?

    1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

      Re: Sue MS?

      How deep are your pockets? $20M deep?

      MS are not fools. They know that only the very rich or very stupid will sue them for something like this.

      They can let you run out of money 100 times over unless you are part of the 0.01%.

      I'd love it for someone to take them on but I'll be long dead before this happens if at all.

      1. Someone Else Silver badge
        Devil

        Re: Sue MS?

        How much money does the FTC have?

        (Enough, I wot....)

    2. Ken Hagan Gold badge

      Re: Wasn't Win 10 suppossed to be

      Isn't Win11 a free update over Win10? That makes it a new "channel" but not, fundamentally, a new OS.

      1. Caver_Dave
        Flame

        Re: Wasn't Win 10 suppossed to be

        They have purposely obsoleted my 3 year old i7, as it is not a supported processor variant!

        When I have tried to force an upgrade it grumbles enough that I stopped.

        When WIN10 is no longer supported, I will go over to Linux as I have done with all my other PCs.

        1. Hogbert

          Re: Wasn't Win 10 suppossed to be

          My i7 was around 8 to 10 years old, the ancient graphics card couldn't support the resolution on a huge new curved monitor, so I decided to build a shiny new Ryzen based box. This was able to install 11 so I went with it.

          Since I had a spare case and enough parts around to put the old i7 to use, I made it a Linux system and currently have it running Pop!OS. It performs very well and has drivers for all the hardware, there is nothing obsolete about the CPU or motherboard, and the old Nvidia card can play a lot of Steam games still.

          Apart from matching the development environment which I use at work, I'm not seeing much point in keeping Windows on my newest PC, when I there are so many lovely Linux DEs to choose from. One day we will replace our software at work with something cross-platform and hopefully move on from supporting win32 vintage software. Then I won't feel the need to stay on windows at home.

  10. Blackjack Silver badge

    Microsoft had the worst timing, release this paid just a year after everyone and their mother gor new computers due to the pandemic? Change the GUI? Add even more ads?

  11. StrangerHereMyself Bronze badge

    No matter

    Eventually all PC's will be running the OS anyway, since you don't have a say in what operating your PC comes installed with.

    1. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Happy

      Re: No matter

      I (somewhat) recently built 2 machines from parts ordered online and purchased locally. They both "came with" FreeBSD 12. Both are AMD Ryzen systems. The 2nd one actually uses an older Ryzen (3 I think) and the 1st one a Ryzen 5 (6 core). So they're pretty "modern" depending on how you interpret the word...

      and they have NEVER booted windows (in a VM sure but never the main OS)

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: No matter

      You're on The Register, not Wired, so your thesis is incorrect.

    3. captain veg Silver badge

      Re: No matter

      Have you ever heard of the expression "the customer is always right"?

      It's easy to buy a PC without Windows pre-installed. It's not *as* easy, because Microsoft pays PC retailers pre-install their malware. Just say no.

      -A.

      1. hoola Silver badge

        Re: No matter

        And what would the average consumer do in this situation?

        They are utterly stuffed. A computer of any type without an OS is like a care with no fuel (or a flat battery).

        You simply cannot do anything until you are able to download and then boot to install an OS, any OS.

    4. 43300

      Re: No matter

      Business machines are still available with W10 (I've bought a number recently). I expect that, as with W7, this will continue for some time yet. I don't think I ever bought a machine with W8 installed - first they still have W7 licenses, then when those weren't available they had W8 licenses downgraded to 7. This carried on right until after 10 was released.

  12. batfink Silver badge

    Subscription charging coming to you soon

    One of the new wheezes in Win11 is that you have to sign into a MS account to make it work. So, clearly they're aiming to get everyone signed up, then start charging - otherwise why create this requirement?

    They can fuck right off with that.

    1. WolfFan Silver badge

      Re: Subscription charging coming to you soon

      You need a MS Account with Home and (some) Pro versions. Enterprise and Education versions don’t need MS Accounts. All my Win boxes run Pro, Education, or Enterprise. Zero Home. I haven’t had a Win box running Home since XP.

      1. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Devil

        Re: Subscription charging coming to you soon

        it's hard and a bit tedious, but you can resist the strong-arm techniques applied to you when installing Win-10-nic, and ONLY have a local account. As for "Win II", I have no clue. (Waiting for an update to VirtualBox that emulates the TPM crap)

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @WolfFan - Re: Subscription charging coming to you soon

        Looks like MS doesn't want to get in trouble displaying ads on Enterprise and Education versions.

        1. Nick Ryan Silver badge

          Re: @WolfFan - Subscription charging coming to you soon

          It hasn't stopped them in the past.

          I wouldn't mind so much if it were subtle and not insidious, but it's not. For example a once in a boot popup highlighting new features of Windows, and as a subset showing features available elsewhere. Instead it's "here's a time limited 'free' copy of some game for your business computer", "here's yet another privacy violating application that your data security team won't want anywhere near their network" and so on...

          1. Snake Silver badge

            Re: @Nick Ryan, insidious ads

            Most of those should be able to be controlled via policies, as ShutUp for Win10 handles them without issue so I would believe direct-edited the policies should do the same thing.

      3. 43300

        Re: Subscription charging coming to you soon

        Pro can be set up with a local account, although they make it as awkward as possible.

        1. milliemoo83

          Re: Subscription charging coming to you soon

          "Pro can be set up with a local account, although they make it as awkward as possible."

          Even if one were to install using the generic Enterprise/Education install (non-activation key), set up local account then change key to the actual key you have?

    2. hoola Silver badge

      Re: Subscription charging coming to you soon

      Whilst I can understand the sentiment, the other mainstream consumer operating systems have been this way for years.

      As far as the subscription goes, yes it is probably coming but that is how software is sold now, With Android it is paid for with adverts and data harvesting, with iOS it is "included" as part of the initial hardware costs, for now.

      What comentards on ElReg see as an inconvenience, security risk or a path to unwanted subscription charges is not what the average user considers an issue. If the Windows OS is for corporate use then it is irrelevant and most likely there will be an Azure AD with M365 anyway.

      What a minority of skilled techies do with their hardware and OS is very different from the majority of consumers.

      1. Someone Else Silver badge
        WTF?

        Re: Subscription charging coming to you soon

        Android and iOS are "mainstream operating systems"?!?

        Shirley, you jest. Whenever you're free, your welcome to come by and install either of those on my desktop or laptop machines, and get them to run Firefox, Thunderbird and LibreOffice 7. I'll record the attempt for posterior posterity.

        1. Nick Ryan Silver badge
          Stop

          Re: Subscription charging coming to you soon

          They are "mainstream operating systems" even if you are too blinkered to know this.

          Pulled from Wikipedia because I'm too lazy to write it myself:

          An operating system (OS) is system software that manages computer hardware, software resources, and provides common services for computer programs.

          What parts of this do Android and iOS not do?

          Not all software installable on Windows is installable on MacOS and vice versa - does this make one or the other not an Operating System? You can't just pick arbitrary applications and decide that if an OS cannot install them then it's not an OS, or even not a mainstream OS.

          Statistics show that Android is the most common Operating System accessing websites in the world. Followed by Windows. Android, like windows, is also deployed on systems that are not used to browse websites therefore the numbers are not accurate, but as a wide measure such systems are in the minority. Here's a chart of OS usage worldwide: https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share (selected as it was the first result in Google, no other reason)

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The only reason I've not stayed on Linux (I've run Mint in the past) and run a windows machine is that it's a PITA to run iTunes for the mrs. Now that Apps are managed from the phone it's only really for syncing music. I really have no reason to move to 11!

    If someone has an easy way round that I'm all ears..

    1. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Linux

      linux iTunes equivalents

      does THIS help?

  14. MisterHappy

    8000+ PCs/Laptops

    The main drivers for any upgrade cycle for us tends to be what is the benefit & how much of a PITA will it be.

    Having completed the Win10 rollout to various PCs and Laptops, replacing where needed, we know exactly how much of a pain it will be and are looking at the EOL for Windows 10 as the time to upgrade, we have a stable image with 3rd party software supported by the vendors so why change anything?

    MS will probably offer extended support in line with Win7 so buying that will give us an extra year.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: 8000+ PCs/Laptops

      I think it's much more likely that support will continue, potentially FoC, until Windows 12 or whatever they decide to call it comes along.

      If businesses stick to Win 10 and straight up reject the upgrade, like they did with Win 8, then they will be forced to keep patching it....

  15. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

    Aging Gear

    My aging gear (one exception), at least one laptop about 7 or 8 years old all run the current, fully patched Linux Mint reasonably well with no complaints from Mint about hardware compatibility. The exception is an aging iMac I inherited and it runs the current MacOS with no issues. While I hope to slowly upgrade my kit this year, I am not under any specific pressure to do so because the 'latest and greatest' will not run on my current kit. My current kit, while old, is still fully functional and I probably can get a few more years out of it if I had to.

    The Rejects of Redmond are beyond clueless. Most users are not really stressing their kit out so what runs Bloatware 10 is more than adequate. I think I will take the hint and not get Bloatware 11 ever.

  16. frankyunderwood123

    Time to switch OS, if you haven't?

    I'll get shot down over this, no doubt, voted down out of existence.

    However, it seems clear to me, that switching to Linux (or macOS if that's your thing), is probably a better option than going from win10 to win11?

    I'm just looking at this from the sidelines, as I did BOTH when windows 8 shat itself onto the world - switched to macOS and Linux.

    I finally cut ties with windows for a gaming machine, about 6 months back - that was my last tie to cut.

    Thanks to Valve, every game I own, works as well under Linux as it did under windows 10.

    Sure, for non-steam games, it takes a bit of geekery to make stuff work - RDR2 took me about 6 hours to sort out.

    For anything other than holding on for gaming, the only reason to keep on using windows, is if you are unfortunately bound to it via the work you do - or if you are just a sucker for punishment.

    The writing is on the wall, windows 11 is just another shit release of an OS that was once upon a time, actually bloody brilliant.

    I *loved* win2k - and winXP/ win7 were pretty much that with some bells and whistles - no problem upgrading, back in the day - I was windows through and through, despite dabbling with Linux on the sidelines.

    Then win8 hit ... splattering against the toilet bowl, as Microsoft, for God knows what reason, decided they could take on the mobile device space.

    They failed so badly, so completely, it left windows 8 a turd floating around in the bowl.

    An unloved terrible experiment in how not to make an OS both desktop and mobile at the same time.

    There's a reason Apple has macOS and iOS - microsoft clearly didn't get the memo about the paradigm shift.

    With each iteration since win8, for anyone using windows, it seems to be clear that control was being taken away.

    It isn't *your* computer, it's microsoft's computer - if they feel like stuffing your start menu full of adverts, either suck it down, or learn to change the default settings.

    It's an opt-out, rather than an opt-in.

    Seriously, for any computer loving geek, it's time to wake up and smell the coffee - microsoft, in terms of a desktop OS, is a terrible choice in 2022.

    Vote me down, whatever ... you know, in your heart, I'm right.

  17. iron Silver badge

    Hardware is not an issue, I could have installed Win 11 on day 1 but I don't want it.

    Sure WSLg would be nice and I'd find WSA useful but I just don't want the Win 11 UI.

  18. innominatus

    Must be our own fault?

    Perhaps not so much "you're holding it wrong" as "you're owning it wrong"?

  19. Numen
    Alert

    Actually, the HW requirements make some sense to me

    When W10 was announced in 2015, as noted you could install it over Windows 7 and 8 systems, supporting hardware back at least from 2000. If W11 supported the same as W10, they'd have to support these old systems until maybe 2030 or later. Support 30 year old hardware? I'm not sure I know of any OS that does that, certainly not a commercial one.

    So I understand why they have the hardware requirements, looking ahead to future support until W11 end of support, but I do suspect they could have been a bit more liberal with where they placed the line. I'm sure they'd lose too much face if they went back and changed it now.

    Looking back from 2030, a line at 2018 hardware might make sense. But looking from 2022, it would certainly seem silly to put the line there. Be interesting to see MS try to explain this, though.

    1. Smirnov

      Re: Actually, the HW requirements make some sense to me

      When W10 was announced in 2015, as noted you could install it over Windows 7 and 8 systems, supporting hardware back at least from 2000. If W11 supported the same as W10, they'd have to support these old systems until maybe 2030 or later.

      That is wrong. Hardware support for Windows 10 already varies based on what Windows 10 version you run (I think the current release is only "supported" on 6th gen Core i and later), so many of the PCs that were supported by early Windows 10 releases are actually already "unsupported" by Microsoft even on Windows 10 (not that this matters much for most users).

      There's no reason why MS couldn't support the same hardware for today's Win11 version that's supported by the current Win10 version, or why the Windows 11 version that will be current in say 2025 would need to support the same hardware as today's Windows 11 version.

      But lack of "support" of MS for Win11 on anything but the very latest hardware isn't even the problem. The problem are the increasingly invasive barriers to enforce that only "supported" PCs run Windows 11 even if there's no technical reason that requires this (Win11 runs fine on many older PCs that are unsupported, at least if they support SecureBoot and have at least a TPM 1.2). Even when before Microsoft didn't care if a PC was "supported" or not, other than not providing actual "support" (not that their support ever was any good even if your hardware happened to be "supported").

      Yet, with Windows 11, they now introduced artificial chicanery to make installation, and worse, continued use, of Windows 11 on PCs that are not "supported" by Microsoft increasingly difficult and annoying.

  20. captain veg Silver badge

    remember when...?

    Once upon a time Microsoft was so keen that everybody should buy their then shiny new system, Windows 95, that they lied about it "running great" in 4MB of RAM. For younger readers, that's four MEGABYTES. Or, if you prefer 0.004GB.

    To give them credit, it could actually run in 4MB, though not "great", which was something of an achievement for a 32-bit* system. Users, however, noticed that it replaced a largely equivalent system (Windows 3.1[1]) which would genuinely run "great" in 2MB.

    So now they think that we are so wed to their shitware that we will willingly toss out perfectly serviceable hardware and buy top-notch replacements just to get the latest version bump?

    I think not.

    -A.

    *OK, a hybrid, but more 32-bit than 16.

    1. Peter2 Silver badge

      Re: remember when...?

      *OK, a hybrid, but more 32-bit than 16.

      It used to be said that Windows was a set of 32 bit extensions and a graphical shell on top of a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that can't stand 1 bit of competition.

      Many true words are said in jest.

    2. Number 39

      Re: remember when...?

      It was dreadful in 4MB, but usable in 5.

    3. milliemoo83

      Re: remember when...?

      "Once upon a time Microsoft was so keen that everybody should buy their then shiny new system, Windows 95, that they lied about it "running great" in 4MB of RAM. For younger readers, that's four MEGABYTES. Or, if you prefer 0.004GB."

      Well technically they were correct. It "ran great" in 4MB. It's just when you asked it to do anything while running it spat its dummy out.

      Also for even younger readers... 4MiB, or 0.004GiB.

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    no way!

    Stick with Microsoft Bob!

  22. John70

    Drop the stupid requirements and I might install it.

    I'm not upgrading my equipment for another couple of years. There's plenty of life still left in it.

  23. thondwe

    Poor timing

    Releasing a new OS with new minimum Hardware requirements just after the World and it's dog spent big on work from home kit is poor timing.

    They should roll back a bit to same reqs as 10, maybe just label installs with the new security features enabled with a slightly different brandling or boot screen (and elsewhere) with a security/hardware support rating or some such?

  24. DrXym Silver badge

    Not exactly much incentive to move

    One of my laptops said I could upgrade to Windows 11 so I did. It's different but not in a way that I consider better, or worthwhile of the upgrade. It looks a bit nicer I guess, a little cleaner. Everything works, and the upgrade went well. It's just not.... compelling.

    In some ways I think it's retrograde. The start menu is arguably worse that Windows 10 since it only shows a handful of icons and they flow meaning they're not fixed in space by an X & Y but by order. That really sucks tbh and clearly designers weren't thinking about power users when they did this.

    1. Nick Ryan Silver badge

      Re: Not exactly much incentive to move

      The designers weren't thinking about users. The designers were thinking about themselves and usability doesn't get a look in.

    2. Hogbert

      Re: Not exactly much incentive to move

      I installed Start11 and got a great looking task bar and menu.

      I mostly use Double Commander for files and project work, saving multiple tab sets as favorites makes it a winner for me.

      Explorer with it's mess of multi level context menus is a disappointment.

  25. Just an old bloke

    I installed 11 and reverted to 10 the same day. There were no improvement of relevence to me but the change to the filr manager right click dialog was a significant negative change, along with a few other petty "improvements" which I can't recall now. I'll be staying on 10 for the foreseeable.

  26. Uncle Ron

    Bad Joke

    I couldn't care less what Microsoft's "plans" for Windows 11 are. Until they rescind their elimination of ALL my home PC's and notebooks from using it, MY plan is to go to Linux Mint or Zorin when support for 10 is dropped. I'm gone from MS forever. Goodbye. (It wasn't so nice knowing 'ya.)

    If I believed for a nano-second that 11 would place even a *dent* in the vulnerability of every Windows computer on the planet--viruses, malware, hacks, leaks, ransom-ware, identity-theft, etc.,--I might be interested. But evil-doers all over the world will take said nano-second to get around TPM and whatever else is in this new spaghetti code. And I'm not at all interested in spinning up and maintaining virtual machines in order to run Windows 11. Forget it. The only beneficiaries of this HW BS are the HW manufacturers. New PC's will be required for ~50% of EVERYBODY. No Thanks. When support for 10 ends, it's Linux for me. Goodbye MS BS.

    When support for 10 goes away, so do I.

  27. Rob Davis

    What actually is it in the processor that Windows 11 needs? x86-64 is x86-64 right?

    Apart from the TPM, the secure boot and any other periphery that Windows 11 dictates, what actually is it in the processor that Windows 11 needs?

    When I go on the Microsoft site about the supported CPUs, I can't find anything that says why those CPUs are the supported ones.

    They all run x86-64, like the non-supported CPUs, which some folks have got Windows 11 to work on.

    Do these supported CPUs have new instructions in their instruction set that the non-supported CPUs don't.

    I suppose the other way would be to run Windows 11 in a VM on non supported hardware so that the VM software emulates the additional CPU instructions.

    Some VM software is thin or light, in that it runs directly on the metal at boot time, so this could be a viable option.

  28. badoder

    If you use Rufus to burn win 11 ISO in a drop down it will remove the crap and you can install win 11 on any computer , you can't upgrade you have to do a fresh install

  29. msobkow Silver badge

    Even if my hardware was capable, I don't trust the software side of things until the guinea pigs/early adopters have spent a year shaking things out.

    I never do an OS upgrade as soon as it becomes available; it has to be scheduled during a slow period when I can risk losing my systems for a while to recover from backups.

    I expect Microsoft upgrades to go as smoothly as any other train wreck. They always munge some piece of software that I rely on. As my box is used for my daily bread work type stuff, that isn't a step I take lightly. Certainly not on the word of some marketing shills.

  30. rcxb1

    Years of this?

    How many years of articles about Win10 remaining more popular than Win11 do we have to look forward to?

    Seems like we only just recently finished with all the articles about Win7 remiaining more popular than Win10...

  31. thutch

    Windows 11 is a Joke

    I've worked on Win 11 recently and all it seems to be is a UI copying the look of MacOS. Win 10 is still in there, underlying the base of Win 11. The hardware requirements are insane, great idea during a chip shortage Microsoft. I can't even begin to count the number of Group Policies I have set to 21H2 to shut off Windows 11 in business environments.

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