back to article Apple notches up ninth €5m fine for ignoring nation's competition watchdog

Apple has just been assessed a ninth fine of €5m ($5.5m) in the Netherlands for failing to allow Dutch dating apps to process transactions using a third-party payment service, as required by the European country's competition watchdog. And if the iGiant continues to dismiss the demands of the Authority for Consumers & Markets …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Megaphone

    What to do?

    As the article points out these fines aren't even a rounding error in Apple's cost of doing business.

    Any country is going to be ignored unless they can bar Apple from doing business in the country.

    Look how far they are willing to kowtow to Xi knowing the China market is on the line.

    1. Phones Sheridan Silver badge

      Re: What to do?

      The authorities in a country either apply to a court, or pass legislation allowing them to legally sanction Apple. Once they have this, assets can be seized, bank accounts frozen etc.

      In the UK historically Trading Standards used to do this, but they just don’t seem to have the resources nowadays. If their demands were ignored, they’d go get a court order, then turn up unannounced with bailiffs and a police escort, if necessary to enforce a forced entry and confiscation of assets.

      1. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge

        Re: What to do?

        could get really tricky if the assets arnt in the same country

        1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: What to do?

          No problem. Start bankruptcy proceedings in the country where the assets are. Watch the value of the CEO's shareholding start to slide. Accept the cheque.

      2. Dave314159ggggdffsdds Silver badge

        Re: What to do?

        It's not at that stage - the Dutch authorities still need to decide if they're going to pursue these penalties, and, if they are, to get them confirmed by a court.

        "Trading Standards used to do this, but they just don’t seem to have the resources nowadays."

        Of course they do. They have a court order and just need to send in bailiffs to get money to spend. Why on earth wouldn't they do that? To 'save' the costs of bailiffs' fees that are included in the court order?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: What to do?

      If a company routinely ignores court instructions, one wonders if/how long it is until one of the executives becomes liable for that action, in an "imprisoned for contempt of court" type of way.

      1. Dave314159ggggdffsdds Silver badge

        Re: What to do?

        Never, when they are this kind of thing. There is a dispute over a matter of law, not a refusal to acknowledge demands. Apple have _acknowledged_ the demands, in that they have replied refuting them.

    3. Cuddles

      Re: What to do?

      "As the article points out these fines aren't even a rounding error in Apple's cost of doing business."

      People constantly make claims like this, but it doesn't really hold up. The Netherlands are fining Apple for their actions in the Netherlands, so what matters is how much Apple makes in the Netherlands. Apple's global revenue is not relevant here. €50 million might be insignificant to the company as a whole, but it may well be more significant relative to the income from a fairly small country. Apple sells hundreds of millions of devices, and there are only 17 million people in the Netherlands in total.

      In addition, total revenue isn't relevant even when looking at only a specific region. For a fine to be effective what matters is that it costs more than any benefit gained from the undesired behaviour. So Apple's income from things like hardware sales and service subscriptions are irrelevant here. What actually matters is how much money Apple makes specifically from taking a cut of payments for dating apps. I suspect that's rather less than $378 billion.

      Just pointing out that Apple is big is meaningless, and the same applies every time the same comes up for Amazon, Google, or anyone else. Fines are not intended to deliberately destroy a company, they're intended to be an incentive to change behaviour. How much money would Apple lose by allowing Dutch dating apps to use a different payment processor? If it's less than €50 million, then it's in Apple's financial interest to change what they're doing and the fine is entirely suitable. Apple may have lots of money, but they didn't get that way by throwing it away by subsidising unprofitable behaviour.

  2. Paul Crawford Silver badge

    This is why such fines should be a non-trivial percentage of global turnover.

    Hopefully the courts will simply impose a ban on Apple in the Netherlands, that will make them take notice!

    1. Caver_Dave Silver badge

      Unfortunately, that will still be a trivial percentage loss of global turnover.

    2. Dave314159ggggdffsdds Silver badge

      This is exactly why such fines shouldn't be.

  3. Potemkine! Silver badge

    Setting a fixed amount for a penalty is unfair and inefficient. Let's rather set a percentage of the turnover.

    1. Headley_Grange Silver badge

      Nah - start at £1 and double it every day they don't comply. The lawyers would probably walk out of court thinking they'd got a result, but you'd have the accountant's attention before the month was up.

      1. jmch Silver badge

        This comment warrants 2^30 upvotes!

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

        2. A.P. Veening Silver badge

          This comment warrants 2^30 upvotes!

          Double that to 231 as 7 out of 12 months have 31 days ;)

  4. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge

    That's less than two hours worth of revenue for Apple, which earned $378.35bn in 2021.

    or if you believe statistica.com:

    "six billion dollars in 2008 to around 95 billion in 2021"

    so which is it?

    thats quite a discrepancy !

    1. DJV Silver badge

      Re: quite a discrepancy!

      It's probably an on-the-fly calculation that's similar to the amount of time showing to completion on a Windows file copying dialog - you know, the one that goes: 10 minutes, 20 minutes, 4 days 6 hours, 18 hours, 6 minutes, 23 years, 3 minutes, 2 minutes 50 seconds, 2 minutes 59 seconds, and then sits there at 99% done with "5 seconds remaining" left showing for around 10 minutes.

    2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Clear evidence quantum computing is used to work it out.

    3. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      Revenue. Maybe the other figures are declared profits, which may be significantly different from actual profits depending on Apples accountancy practices.

      On the other hand I wonder what the €50M is in terms of NL revenues (or profits) rather than worldwide revenues/profits? Apple have also been stung with fines in other countries too. It's beginning to add up. Death by a 1000 cuts? (Might need more than a 1000 cuts to have a real effect though)

  5. Omgwtfbbqtime

    Hmmm...

    Have the NL government made sure that the fine is so small that it's not worth Apple's time to address this, but is still a worthwhile amount to collect to add to the tax take?

    "We are a couple of mill short for project x"

    "Oh just assess another fine on Apple."

    1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      Re: Hmmm...

      €50M is chump change to many European governments. Probably barely the cost of building one hospital or a couple of miles of motorway.

  6. Plest Silver badge
    Facepalm

    Peanuts

    A $1tn company.....$5m fine.

    Hmm, I bet Tim Cook just had a quick feel down the back of the Apple HQ office sofa to find the cash for that fine!

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