US is best place to be a software engineer, salary survey finds A survey has highlighted the disparity in engineer salaries around the world, with US developers pocketing far more than their British equivalents. The report, from gamified programming outfit Codingame, was culled from its community of two million developers (along with tech recruiters) and showed that the US remained the top …
Even among home "owners", most never pay off their mortgages due to various factors.
If you are renting, there seems to be considerably better protections for tenants than the UK, speaking as someone who was persuaded to move to Switzerland after having their rents raised so much I moved 3 times in 6 years in the uk. Rent raises were solely due to the fact that they could, my wage did not match. Switzerland offered me a considerably higher wage and cheaper rent (and lower taxes)
After adjusting for exchange rate, the cost of food, clothing, etc, is the same in Switzerland as in the UK. Housing is *cheaper* in Switzerland than the UK. And average salaries are far higher in Switzerland.
Source: Swiss acquaintances complaining about the cost of things in the UK whilst on holiday.
It probably all depends upon where you are.
Central Zurich vs Central London - Probably about the same in terms of hosing. A coffee and/or pint was much more expensive in Zurich, though.
Out in the sticks? Probably cheaper in UK. there is no "cheap" housing in Switzerland, merely less expensive.
Of course, one needs to compare apples with äpfel. Don't mix inner city and country .... well, anywhere.
As for internet, no doubt cheaper in the UK, but at my GF parents house in "rural" Switzerland, the 50Mb SDSL feels like dial-up compared to my 1Gb/s in a Cantonal capital. 10Gb/s is available, but probably overkill for me. However, neither internet ever goes down nor slows down, even in the worst of weather. Colleagues from the UK constantly complain.
Nice to know that Regtards can make [negative] commentary on living in the U.S. without knowing a single actual fact about doing so. As usual.
The locales that hold the vast majority of technical jobs are also the locales that hold the vast minority of neo-conservatives. Meaning, that the majority of places that call High Tech home - Silicon Valley, CA; New York; Austin, TX, etc - and the suburbs that house their employees, are bastions of pretty liberal (read: anti-gun) politics. Even when they are located in majority conservatively-controlled states (Austin, for example, is in a constant political battle of wills against the conservative Texas governor's whims).
Therefore, using an American phase, Get a Clue. All some of you do is throw shade at anything that isn't British.
Actually, I spent over 10 years of my career working in the US east coast on visas. So I'm QUITE familiar with life in Austin, Baltimore, Wilmington, and Orlando. And what I saw was cesspools next door to walled gardens with armed guards, block after intermingled block, and enough police with body armor to make anyone shudder.
The US is an armed police state, and that was 20 years ago that I left, before things REALLY got nuts as the post 9/11 paranoia settled in. :(
> And what I saw was cesspools next door to walled gardens with armed guards, block after intermingled block, and enough police with body armor to make anyone shudder.
Go ask anyone who actually lives in those cities if they wished the police weren't there.
I just got back from downtown Baltimore - there were police at several locations and it was obvious that it was by request of the businesses.
Also, huge difference between cities and other towns in cost of living and type of life.
Averages don't tell the whole story.
There is a lot of difference between a developer at a silicon valley FAANG / Wall St bank and doing reports at a supermarket in Arkansas
The industry is also very steeply curved. There are a lot of new graduates, fewer higher paid 5year staff, much fewer very well paid 10 year developers and a very few very very well paid 20+ year experts
Depending on the state, lower tax rates in the states go some of the way to compensating for significantly higher healthcare costs in the US. But the main incentive in the US remains stock options which let people dream of retiring when Unicorn™ goes public in five years. During which time they're prepared to put in oodles of unpaid overtime, forego holidays right until the pink slip arrives…
That's like saying if you value living over working.
Holidays in the US are often only 10 days a year. Not long enough to travel far.
In Spain we get 23 days (paid) and 10-15 national holidays (depending on the region) as a minimum.
You can go away for a month each year and still have plenty of long weekends.
Or, if you max out "puentes" (national holidays that fall on a Tuesday or Thursday), you can have six week long relaxing holidays a year.
And 6 months off (unpaid) every 4 years. Literally, this was a life saver after lockdown.
In Finland you get 30 days (paid) holidays so you can get some southern sun in the long northern winter.
I agree with you, I just know that some people really identify with their work and it is my impression there are more of them in the US. Culture and stuff.
On a different scale, the Swiss some years ago (~2010?) voted against increasing statuary holidays from 4 weeks.
Nobody goes to Timmys since Burger King made the coffee crap and we have a strategic Maple syrup reserve
I thought we were all supposed to be working "in the cloud" by now. So it wouldn't matter where we lived.
But no, cant be having that for the companies and software developers actually building it, apparently it's not good enough for them to use effectively, even though all their advertising says it is. I also expect the metaverse companies to insist on their employees attending the office, to sit and together with their VR headsets on all day, building their new worlds where we can all exist together, but obviously not well enough to communicate effectively.
I think most software engineer jobs would come with company health insurance as a benefit.
I've looked at quite a few jobs over there as looking at the idea of migration, and all of them had company health + dental insurance. And more holidays than just national ones - I agree with you WRT time > money and I wouldn't take a job with only 10 days off per year, but many jobs offer more.
A lot of shade being thrown at the USA on this thread - some jokes, some serious - but from what I can tell, professionals can expect a higher standard of living than in the UK. Better pay, lower tax, cheaper housing, cheaper fuel. And way more flavours of Ben and Jerrys...
The title talks about the former then the article discusses the latter.
A lot of coders aren't qualified engineers. I would hope those that are get better paid in the early stages of their career than those that aren't. In later career, results should dictate pay.
Salary by itself isn't sufficient to gauge quality of life.
If you work in silicon valley, e.g. Mountain View, then your salary is going to be destroyed by rent and the general cost of living. And if you live further afield to avoid the rent then you get to enjoy long commutes. I'm sure there is a similar picture in most other places we might consider software hubs - New York, Boston, San Diego, San Francisco, Seattle.
We've also seen how programmers, especially at lower grade can scarcely afford to live anywhere so are forced to live in dorm style setups, or out of vans.
I did live and work in Walnut Creek, Bay Area for a while. It was absolutely wonderful life for me as I wasn’t one of the poor souls who had to ride the BART into the city every morning. A pool in the yard, humming birds, summer and the the occasional PG&E power cut. Glorious! I also lived in northeast USA , at no stage did I ever need to fear guns, in fact I could go out in the evening and rarely saw the UK standard entertainment of drunks fighting. It was a wonderful time and I had the opportunity to stay there. But I feel a strong pull to my roots and I longed for home, despite all its faults. I guess I was lucky I didn’t ever need healthcare, though I believe I was covered.
In the end I found ways to earn well in Blighty, now I enjoy 2 or 3 days a week from home, no pressure. I love travelling and love being in other places, but none are home. So I would take the lower salary.
From 1990 till 2014, my work took me to Michigan (6 years), Tennessee (2 years) and North Carolina (16 years). In that time:
- I was well paid
- Two thirds of my health care insurance was paid by my employer
- Most years I got a bonus
- My moving expenses (well most of them) were paid by my employer
- I never heard a gunshot....not once
Not only that, but (unlike some of my UK friends) I wasn't pushed out when I got to fifty years old! In fact, I changed jobs for another pretty good situation in my early sixties.
So.....my experience in the USA is this: there's a pretty good focus ONLY on the skill and experience of the candidate/employee.
What's not to like?
Well,,,
-well paid is relative
-My employee pays for all my medical expenses via NI. With an average hospital bill in the US being $2,600, a 5 day visit would cost you over $4000, and that is just the start. Also my medical care is transferrable, so I cannot be held to ransom by my employer
- I get a bonus, most places do
- A lot of places offer moving expenses, but the distances are shorter so there is more scope based on how far you want to travel
-Never seen someone brandish a gun...ever
- Never had a issue finding a job. In fact there is such a shortage that finding a new position would not be an issue
Plus - far more holidays, better work life balance, work from home if required,
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