back to article Only 29% of techies truly want to stay in current job

Researchers at Gartner are finding that only 29 percent of IT workers globally have a "high intent" to stay in their current roles. Younger techies are even less likely to stick around than their older counterparts, according to the survey of 18,000 employees conducted in the final three months of 2021 – with 1,755 of the …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    It's not just work-life balance though - it is more....

    If you a predominantly or wholly a WFHer, it becomes very obvious, very quickly if the role you are doing is not fulfilling you. This is quickly apparent when you have the following....

    1. You work with fuckwits

    2. Management are fuckwits.

    3. Lack of roadmap is laid bare

    4. Project management (or rather, lack of) is barer than a nudist colony

    1. AMBxx Silver badge

      That 29% will rocket if we hit a recession.

      There are also plenty of serial moaners in those planning to leave.

      1. Pete 2 Silver badge

        If only

        > plenty of serial moaners in those planning to leave.

        In my experience, those who whine-on most about planning to leave are both the people everyone else hopes will leave, but also are the ones least likely to.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Amen to that. Managers are a force multiplier and working from home has massively inflated points 2-4. I'm fortunate in that most of my colleagues just try to do their best, but the pandemic highlighted how the title of "manager" has become a mere corporate accolade, and the vast majority fell flat on their face when clarity and leadership was required to maintain team cohesion and the needs of a rapidly changing infrastructure. Technology roadmaps and project management have devolved to the point where Dilbert is no longer satirical.

      1. Bbuckley

        Dilbert was never satirical - it is a factual account of actual management practices.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Follow the money

      Job hopping is also the only way to get a guaranteed pay rise, in most cases

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I'll add to that poor/stagnant wages.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I quite like all 4 of those. It makes for an easier job with less oversight.

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        The time to worry is when you find 1 & 2 are both true. It suggests management is recruiting people in its own image so what does that make you?

        1. jason_derp

          A person with job security?

    6. monty75

      With you on the first three but project management here is more like that scene in Friends where Joey wears all of Chandler's clothes. You can't even think about doing requirements gathering until you've filled in half a dozen forms, been to a bunch of meetings and kissed the ring of at least one PHB.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I'm thinking about a lot more than this

    After 12 years and now in my mid-30s, I am actually thinking about leaving the IT industry altogether and just changing career. It's not fulfilling for me anymore and I have totally lost patience with 'techie' stuff and things just going wrong. I look at a whole swathe of other roles seeing very few that truly light my fire. Even those that do appeal would be hugely competitive (hundreds of applicants sometimes) and would require huge amounts of additional learning on top of my day job.

    The IT industry does seem to have a 'crabs in a bucket' mentality to it. Every time someone says they've had enough and wants to do something else, they are just told to "try this new area" or "have you tried changing employer", "I went through this, did that and now doing awesome" and suchlike. Being completely fed up of the whole show is apparently unacceptable and not an option.

    Being on Teams listening to disembodied voices of people you would normally sit and spend the whole day with? That's draining. That's not a 'team'.

    I would also agree with every single point the initial AC made. The culture in my team has changed over the past 2-3 years, particularly in that our seniors are completely invisible unless someone needs to be b*llocked about something. Also, the strategy is ill-defined and seems to be based on our Director's whim, while there is also little real leadership and management is based on stick.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I'm thinking about a lot more than this

      As someone in his 50s, change of career for me is nigh-on impossible IMO.

      Hoever, everything you say resonates. Five years ago is when the IT industry chnaged. Every day since has seemed like a firefight.

      1. chivo243 Silver badge

        Re: I'm thinking about a lot more than this

        As someone in his 50s, change of career for me is nigh-on impossible IMO.

        I'll be 58 next month, and quit IT (working for someone else) last year. It was do something else NOW or never... I couldn't fathom another 8 years working for my previous employer, as mentioned the last 5 years of IT has been a dumpster fire, ( I do miss my ex-colleagues, they are great guys!) Doing something else now, a little IT involved, and lot of new stuff. I'm lucky that I can fall back on a previous career's experience to lead me into this new chapter.

        1. hoola Silver badge

          Re: I'm thinking about a lot more than this

          I was in a position that I needed to get out of to maintain my sanity. What surprised me was that at the time (58), I had two positions become available. The first clearly valued experience and were seeking someone who had actually been in the real world and seen it go wrong, then fixed it. The second was not interested in age, only approach and ability.

          Now that contrasts with what I have seen prior to this so I assume it was a "right place -> right time" event.

          Neither were small companies, but nor were they mega-corps.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I'm thinking about a lot more than this

        I've hit the big 5-0 and am thinking of leaving IT too. I'm just sick of management expeecting miracles on a shoe-string. I'm struggling to think what else to do :/

        1. Fred Daggy Silver badge

          Re: I'm thinking about a lot more than this

          Are you my twin (evil or otherwise)?

          - Miracles on a shoestring. If I say it takes this long and the lowest reasonable cost is this, don't give me half of neither.

          - 24 x 7 x 365 availability. Other departments work weekends and late nights, sure. But nearly every weekend? No way José.

          - Warm bodies, not talent is employed. And paid peanuts accordingly. Sick of training someone that can't even manage to spell "net share" as two words, instead of one. Or copies non-trivial amounts of data by copy/paste in RDP sessions. Like 250Gb. Started last week and might be finished by April.

          - Ever increasing amounts of compliance and other legal instruments to be on top of, without a moments thought as to how to get training. Now, regulations change for other fields, but I see the finance group (for example) sitting though a two day webinar or guest speaker on a minor VAT change. Nothing for IT. Wot the?

          - Beg for tools that have a positive ROI, this year. But somehow money can't be found despite the executives 5 star "retreat" costing about 10 times that amount.

          It all went to hell when Lemmy let the feedback from the bass fade the last time.

      3. IGotOut Silver badge

        Re: I'm thinking about a lot more than this

        I quit IT 5 years ago aged 45, after completely losing the plot. Being on call every other week (including bank Holidays), work varying from utter boredom to unbelievable stresses piled on top of home life issues took a toll do bad it led to suicidal thoughts and being on antidepressants for 2 years.

        So I walked out after not being able to face going in. I applyed for the first job that needed no experience.

        I gave up the pointless shit you buy when you have money. My current career has absolutely nothing to do with IT, but is varied and interesting. I just went in at the bottom, but belted through multiple areas and when applying for another internal job, got head hunted by the director of the top division. It was all down to attitude and the having worked in IT, the so called "high pressure" job was a walk in the park.

        Fancy restaurants? Why, pub grub is just as good and the service and company is usually better.

        Buying coffee and sandwiches? Why, make your own. A left over curry you made is better lunch than some crappy shop bought sandwich.

        Buy 2nd hand. In the pask I've bought an oak coffee table for £15, an amazing leather sofa for £50, CDs, books and games can be picked up for next to nothing from charity shops (independentscare best).

        Then there is the change of expectations. Now I love going on walks, discovering British History and visiting unusual places.

        If you change what is important, your life will massively improve.

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I'm thinking about a lot more than this

        I blame the Cloud to be honest.

        Magically sending IT into the ether so your in house team can only hit F5 if theres a problem (if they even exist) and managers think they know what they are doing and wrest control of the project plans from those who do.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I'm thinking about a lot more than this

      As I scream "Noooo!" towards 50, I would love to escape the IT industry that I have been working in since the mid-90s. Unfortunately here in the UK, there is little/no money in electronics and fault-finding to component-level - or at least, not in the area I live (East Bedfordshire). All I see around here are more houses and more warehouses. There is little in the way of high-tech - unless you want to waste your life on the train.

      Having struggled to find work through the pandemic, I landed what is effectively a Senior SysAdmin role that is dressed-up as an IT Manager. I am in a department one! Whilst I work from home for 99% of the week, the company demands 40 hours/week. It is like we have returned to the 1970s! The chap I am taking over from is leaving due to the lack of planning, constant fire-fighting, and the default mode from the MD of everything being "urgent". There is no ticketing system - everything is run in Skype chats; and it is seriously hard to keep up with the noise, even in such a small company.

      So I am putting up with it for now - until I can find something better. It is going to have to be in IT again, as no-one wants to give you a leg-up once you are past 25. If you want to change career, you need your own money to study and hope there is a job opening.

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: I'm thinking about a lot more than this

        "If you want to change career, you need your own money to study and hope there is a job opening."

        IT isn't an end in itself. Unless you've worked for a vendor you'll almost certainly have been working in IT supporting business in some other industry or industries. Take a step back. What knowledge have you picked up about those? Could you use that to get a non-IT, or some form of half IT and half non-IT role in one of those industries?

        FWIW this is pretty much the inverse of the way I changed job mid-career. I started off in science with some IT training during post-grad and then, as IT crept into my Civil Service lab, became the IT go-to guy there which then enabled me to step into IT for the second half of my career. I see no reason why it couldn't work the other way around.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I'm thinking about a lot more than this

      Coming up on 35 years working in IT. I've seen a lot and to be honest I've almost had enough. It's changed so very little since I started all those years ago, we're more connected and we're moving from in-house computer rooms to cloud based rented services but that's all. I still like using the tech but at its core IT is the exact same since the 1980s, it's just shifting data around in files and stuffing it into databases, OK you might have a REST interface here or a noSQL store there but really IT is still doing what it's always done, making sure business people can make decisions that make money.

      I started a sideline business about 5 years ago and I'm making some nice pocket money right now but what I'm getting out of my sideline is a sense of my own worth, my hard work benefits me and I can see results and get direct feedback for my efforts.

      I'm sticking with IT for a few more years to build up a nice pot then I intend to semi-retire and go do something that will make me feel truly worthwhile, rather than be used up and spat out. I cannot imagine a worse fate than reaching 65, still working in IT and trying to keep up when you should be out there enjoying those golden years.

      IT has paid well, I'm not loaded but I'm comfortable and I got a bit stashed away ready to keep me going when I finally cut my losses and turn my side hustle into a part-time job to pay some of my bills. Might not be much but at least it's all mine.

      1. chivo243 Silver badge
        Thumb Up

        Re: I'm thinking about a lot more than this

        I wish I could up vote this one many, many times! Too bad it's AC, but I get it!

      2. werdsmith Silver badge

        Re: I'm thinking about a lot more than this

        I'm sticking with IT for a few more years to build up a nice pot then I intend to semi-retire and go do something that will make me feel truly worthwhile,

        This is me. I'm not on linkedin, I don't intend to make another CV and I definitely don't intend to go through the humiliation of any ridiculous jump-through-hoops pointless interview process. I am waiting patiently for the day when inevitably the job ends, because they all do. My average length of time in a job is 7 years, I'm currently coming up to 8 years. When it happens, I'll draw off some savings, and spend my days learning new stuff I'm interested in. I've got serious experience and proven skills I can give considerable value, but companies don't really care or notice, too busy making false economies and spending hours and hours in meetings.

    4. GreyWolf

      Re: I'm thinking about a lot more than this

      In my experience, becoming a self-employed consultant transformed the experience to the point where I no longer needed to leave the industry.

      1. I earned much more

      2. That gave me a six-month money buffer, so I could just walk if it got intolerable. That made it all easier to bear. And there ARE good customers out there; no need to tolerate the crappy ones.

      3. I had a built-in excuse for not tolerating bullshit ("it's costing you £X per day, are you sure it's value for money?". Nobody expected me at team meetings (unless there were doughnuts).

      4. I'm in charge. I chose how many days a year I worked. I could and did take a lot more time off for fun stuff.

      Yes, I realise that HMRC has completely changed the deal since my time (I retired when it got oppressive). But I suspect there are cracks to wriggle through, if you and your customer are creative.

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: I'm thinking about a lot more than this

        "(unless there were doughnuts)"

        What - aren't decent biccies good enough?

        But, yes, this is it exactly. And what's more the good customers IME are the ones who learn about you by word of mouth. Get a good reputation & you don't have any of the circus which seems to be a feature of recruitment these days.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I'm thinking about a lot more than this

      Having just turned 62 last month I'm regularly evaluating whether I should continue in the industry, but I was very fortunate to start a new job during the pandemic which I am enjoying a lot - just the right size of company who allow me to be senior without insisting on me being a manager, and working remotely is just fantastic.

      Every month or two I move to a new city and get to discover it by living there and working in it. As we come to the end of the pandemic the company are very carefully allowing staff to elect how they will work going forward (and allowing people to re-elect if they should change their minds). I know there are some who really miss being in the office for a variety of reasons, but in my case it's been an amazingly freeing experience to work remotely, and I still get more done each day than I ever did in the office, regularly achieving more than is expected of me.

      I've never met any of the teams that I work with in person, and it would be lovely to do that from time to time, but my work-life balance seems so much more relaxed now that life is "what's around me and where I am" and work is "through the screen on my laptop".

      As I write this on the slopes of a snowy hill the crows in the trees outside the farmstay are very loud - a very different ambience to last week's church bells, ambulance sirens and courtyard arguments in a large city, and I feel I'm managing to live more than I have in the previous few decades while still doing no less work.

      1. Sam Crawley

        Re: I'm thinking about a lot more than this

        That's what bothers me about the pro-office arguments around human social contact and keeping city coffee shops open - being based at home now I'm interacting far more in my local community and using local shops, and in the long run this is bound to lead to a more balanced economy even if at the short term expense of a few sandwich shops in the big cities.

    6. Philip Stott

      Re: I'm thinking about a lot more than this

      I'm very sorry to hear that you (and apparently many others) are disillusioned by your career in IT.

      At the risk of making myself unpopular, I've spent the last 30 years designing and developing commodity trading systems, and I still love it.

      Even if I inherited millions from a mysterious benefactor I'd still code just for fun.

      Would be interested to know how many developers are disillusioned compared to infrastructure, desktop support, operations, etc.

  3. Pete 2 Silver badge

    Fantasy meets reality

    > only 29 per cent of IT workers globally have a "high intent" to stay in their current roles

    Although most will do!

    All this shows is the large gap between what people SAY and what they actually do.

    However, this is a global study, so is not relevant to any particular country. It is far too general for any company to use for planning.

    The study (as reported) also fails to provide a time limit. Stay in their current roles for how long. A year? Life? Or until they get promoted while staying with the same company?

    1. Richard 12 Silver badge

      Re: Fantasy meets reality

      It's about whether they're "actively looking" for a different job.

      Just because someone is looking, doesn't mean they'll find one.

      However, even if most don't leave:

      More of the "best" workers in that cohort will leave than the mediocre or poor workers. So companies lose important expertise and suffer reduced productivity.

      Most of those workers will spend some of their "at work" time actively searching for new employment. Regardless of whether they find anything "worth" applying for, those workers will be less productive.

    2. Naselus

      Re: Fantasy meets reality

      Willing to bet most won't, over five years. Everyone under 40 chops and changes more regularly than that by default anyway.

    3. Eclectic Man Silver badge

      Re: Fantasy meets reality

      Every year (or possibly 6 months) in my last job we're get a questionnaire from management which included the question about did we intend to be employed by them this tie next year. I generally answered "No" to that, as I didn't like it there, but every year rolled by and there I still was. Until one day, aged 58, I was offered paid redundancy :oD

      1. doublelayer Silver badge

        Re: Fantasy meets reality

        I would always answer the other way. Admittedly, I've never been asked that so blatantly, but whenever asked some question about whether I would leave, I interpreted it as "Would you like us to set a disloyal flag on your employee record?" and answered in order not to. The good part about that policy is I never had to decide what I actually thought while filling out their survey.

  4. John Hawkins

    Office landscapes

    I hate office landscapes - always a lot of noise and movement - never enough rooms for meetings/calls so people take calls at the next work station.

    Good enough reason to start looking for a new employer if my current situation of mostly working from home ever changes.

    Workshops and some meetings can be taken in the office, I don't have any issues with that, but I prefer to leave office space for the poor sods who don't have room for a proper home office.

  5. rlightbody

    Trust your staff to work from home, flexibly, in a way that suits them.

    Possibly say that you'd like to see them in the office once a week, but not more than that.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      My company took that route within 2-3 months of the pandemic starting, they were thinking about but the pandemic forced their hand. They've even sub-leased expensive floor space we no longer occupy now most of the company is WFH. We got given home kit, laptops, screens, chairs, etc, there's a single office floor in each site around the globe for hot-desks and you arrange with your line manager when you want to be in and book a desk.

      So far it's been a huge success. They did a poll late 2021 and found just 10% wanted to be full time in the office again, so they went even further and started running hybrid working seminars, buying more home kit, we even get mental health seminars every couple of months where we talk about how we're doing.

      I do feel sorry for younger employees who won't get the whole office experience, I kind of enjoyed that when I was a young man with nothing to rush home for but now I'm older, kids left home, I like WFH and getting to be alone with my wife and our cat!

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        My global megacorp also did poll a month ago. The results were 90%+ in favour of WFH, so management took that to mean employees were clamouring for a strict requirement for 50% of employee time spent in the office with a register taken.

        Looking forward to the Great Resignation starting in earnest.

        1. Youngone Silver badge

          The Great Resignation has already started at the vast tentacled monster I work for.

          The idiots who attempt to run it decided to outsource out first level helldesk in September last year, and that went so well they had to scramble to bring it back in house before Christmas.

          About 3/4 or the poor saps they employed didn't return from their Christmas break, and the few who did have been resigning too.

          Apparently people just don't want to work anymore.

          1. J.G.Harston Silver badge

            "Apparently people just don't want to work anymore."

            How do they intend paying to stay alive?

          2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

            "Apparently people just don't want to work anymore."

            Given the set-up you described it sound more likely to be the other way around. They do want to work but have cottoned on to the fact that that might not be possible in your mega-corp and making the move on their own terms.

      2. Shuki26

        The best years of my career happened in those first years

        No kids or less kids at home, working late on some projects, sharing pizza or whatever with the colleagues. That's where we built the strong relationships that followed us as the years went by. Those bonds meant that we had connections around the company for so many years, even until today. I see now that new joiners, even experienced workers, in the past Covid years will never build such a strong bond with many colleagues. Not just for 'the experience', rather the social and career development that a strong network entails within the company and especially when people move on.

  6. Potemkine! Silver badge

    WFH is here to stay. Only stupid people from stupid companies don't realize that.

    It's good for us that the job market is bright for IT. It's time to take advantage of it. Wage slaves, wake up!

    1. ArrZarr Silver badge

      Honestly, that was my greatest fear at the start of the Pandemic. I know this is selfish but my god I hate WFH. I get so much more done in the office.

      I know that I'm probably in the minority but having an office I can go into is huge for me.

      1. Naselus

        There'll always be an office so those with kids or lack of decent WFH space have somewhere to go.

        But yes, anyone who thinks the vast majority of the workforce will continue to accept the old excuses for having to work on-prem can come back is deluded. WFH was an effective overnight 2 grand payrise for me just from dropping my commute, even before we take into account an extra hour in bed in the morning, and extra hour of free time in the evening, lack of stress from the abysmal state of the local trains, and generally better access to things like a visit from the plumber or being able to nip to dentist or the doctor during the week without having to take the full day off for it.

        I'd probably be willing to take a 5 grand pay cut overall to keep WFH if my employer tried to force us back on prem, tho thankfully they have no interest in doing so either. Probably because they've benefited as much as the staff have from us not needing to take random days off to get the boiler fixed or have a filling done.

      2. RyokuMas

        The trouble is, we're still in the "reaction" phase of WFH: management were forced into this change and are still figuring out exactly what it will mean when the scales tip back towards balance.

        Right now, it sounds peachy to developers - no distractions, able to just get on and code, nobody coming over and asking "did you see my email"...

        The long term, however, is bleaker. With almost no sponteneous conversation, there will be less scope for developers to get involved with things until managers have made their decisions and handed over the woolly specs which they expect delivered by the end of the week - much as they did in the bad old days about 20 years ago. There will be no change for devs to get together, discuss and push back. And before you know it, we'll be back to full-on waterfall.

        The idea of a "friendly" culture will die out. Employees will either be expected to log all their hours, or increasingly be asked to start early/run late, simply because by the fact their desk is at home, there is no separation between "work" and "not at work".

        Innovation will slow down, potentially damaging companies, or even putting them out of business as people stop talking to spark new ideas.

        In the next five to ten years, it'll be the companies that get people back into the office - if only for a few days a wek - that come out on top. Google (for example) realise this. People work better together.

        1. Decani
          Thumb Up

          Amen to this. No more easy cross pollination or easy support. No more banter. I'm torn though, as the office seems to have changed for the worse (open plan) and colleagues prefer to be left alone rather than ever collaborating. WFH is comfortable and no more distasteful and expensive commute.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            There's also an experience split here. Those of us who've been in a business for a while probably know who to contact for a given issue; anybody new coming in won't, and most companies don't have systems that allow you to easily find who's responsible for what.

            My company took on some graduates during the WFH phase - they've become a *lot* more productive since we switched to 1 or 2 days in the office each week.

    2. Shuki26

      The current period is temporary

      WFH for all is not sustainable in the long run so enjoy it for the near future. It is destroying loyalty to the company and to colleagues. How do you build cohesiveness with a once in a month meeting in person? The reason for the 'great resignation' is because it's no longer about friends at work, rather the people you see on the screen or only talk to on the phone/Skype. And all this is luxury of WFH is great if you live in the west with a large home but a disaster if you live in the east and have been working in a home which houses an extended family, without air-c, and power and internet that drops once a week on average. My colleagues in India are dying to get back to the office.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I would fall into the category of planning to leave my company, but the answer of when is a whole other conversation. I like parts of my job, but other parts bore the heck out of me, and the industry I've found myself in is hardly inspiring (I used to work in the Space industry, which admittedly pays sh%t (the reason I ended up leaving it), but it's not hard to get excited about your work their). My wife is pretty much in the same boat.

    Unfortunately, my job pays about as good as I'm going to get in my industry without entering management, so any other job is going to be at best a side move and potentially a pay cut. I've also just recently bought a house, and so large distance moves dont feel like a great option at the moment. So there's a lot of inertia there stopping a move happening anytime soon. However, after saying that, if they ditch the Home Office rules in my firm then that will be a big push to start applying at other companies, as that has been a major boon in our lives.

    Reduced home office, may not lead to us changing jobs, but it wouldnt certainly push us to look around...

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward


    The stats show most people working in IT dislike their jobs.

    Sounds right.

    Problem being, the next job normally as bad as the one you move from, back of a fag packet specifications, ludicrously short timescales to get work done, continually adding new features (with obvious increase in product complexity) whilst horrendous bugs lurk untouched, arse covering management, randomly changing work priorities, learn this new technology we are using going forward (but we wont actually allocate any time for you to take training / learn it - say goodbye to personal outside work free time sucker) we care about our employees wellbeing BS* - seems to be the same in most (not quite all) roles.

    Like many others I'm thinking of getting out of IT full stop, when finances allow (UK fuel price apocalypse & post Brexit general food & goods price surge has screwed the dates of my leaving plans significantly when factoring in pay for local non IT jobs out in the sticks, as family outgoings are shooting up )

    * A less excessive workload & less of the this needs doing by last week approach would improve wellbeing of most IT staff (if they did try to do that by having more staff so actually a chance of getting all the work done on time then you could guarantee they would just fling in more work to keep a vicious circle going )

    1. LybsterRoy Silver badge

      Re: Stats

      -- The stats show most people working in IT dislike their jobs. --

      The stats show most people dislike their jobs.


      1. ecofeco Silver badge

        Re: Stats

        This. It's not just IT.

      2. jason_derp

        Re: Stats

        I really wish I could remember/find where I saw this stat, so take it with a boulder of salt: ~11% of employed and retired people have worked at a job they liked. Not even currently work, worked. Absurd.

  9. Someone Else Silver badge

    "Tough" conversations.

    This means having tough conversations with HR and other decisions-makers on company policy, to ensure they understand the exceptional drivers in the IT workforce, he said.

    Not sure how "tough" such conversations might be. Now if HR is populated with asshats, the tough part of the conversation might be to get them to understand that engineers might have different workplace requirements than your average marketing droid, or "personal assistant", or even HR bod.

    Or perhaps that engineers might be more mobile than said marketing droids or HR bods.

    Or that having your current engineering staff decimated is not an opportunity for HR bods to earn bonuses, but rather is a problem for the company to stay competitive, or perhaps even to stay afloat.

    After all, as any fule in HR no, Engineering is a cost center, not a profit center...

    1. LybsterRoy Silver badge

      Re: "Tough" conversations.

      Sorry to disagree but you're talking programmers etc and not engineers. Why the hell anyone ever came up with "Software Engineer" is beyond me.

    2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: "Tough" conversations.

      "Or that having your current engineering staff decimated is not an opportunity for HR bods to earn bonuses"

      But think of the bonuses to be earned by recruiting the replacements. It really might be an opportunity, not a problem.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    You want our labour?

    I keep being inundated by Agencies that specify for EPOS/ FSE/Rollout mobile work from home jobs, that I must pay the first 100 miles of travel, claim any ULZ/LEZ/Parking costs???

    WTF are you Smoking!!!

    Its a field position, why are you not providing a fully expensed vehicle that the client is responsible for pre-paying LEZ/ULEZ fees for?

    Parking charges are fine for recovering costs, but I'm in no way paying out (now with skyrocketing fuel prices) £30+ a day out of my salary for your benefit. F^%K that.

    Personally all my vehicles are dirty Euro3, so are effectively banned from ULEZ/LEZ cities anyway. U can suck that day charge up of £100 per Day, cos I'm not.

    Last time i did a nationwide support roll (2003), they provided a new hire car and fully expensed fuel card.

    And to top it off many agencies are specifying the jobs are "INSIDE IR35" which means they are pretty much offering sub NMW positions. Which start the clock at a customers premises and end at premises, no overtime. which means i would have to suck up to 4hours travel time a day, unpaid.

    Anyone else seeing this Sh1t?

    And they wonder why prospective employees instantly dump their emails to spam and block their phone numbers....

    (U get better paid in tescos or any other supermarket, hell, shovelling shit on a farm gets better hours and wages)

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: You want our labour?

      " hell, shovelling shit on a farm gets better hours and wages"

      And a front loader to drive.

  11. Marty McFly Silver badge
    Thumb Up

    WFH reality...

    I got sent to WFH around eight years ago. I mistakenly thought I would be getting back the two hours spent in a car every day. Nope, that ended up going to my employer.

    I am far more productive now than I ever was in an office. Not only do I feel like I get more accomplished every day, tracking metrics also bear that out.

    On the upside, there is a lot of flexibility in my work. If the tasks are done and I need to attend a personal errand, then I go do it.

    On the downside, there is a lot of flexibility. If I go in the home office and check my email at 10pm to see small fire brush starting, I will take the time to put it out before it becomes an official forest fire the following morning.

    As for staying in this job.... Yup, no plans to change.....right up until they insist I go back to an office.

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