back to article Russia mulls making software piracy legal and patent licensing compulsory

Russia is considering handing out licenses to use foreign software, database, and chip design patents, and legalizing software copyright violations, in response to sanctions imposed over its invasion of Ukraine. According to Russian business publication Kommersant, a government document drafted on March 2 outlines possible …

  1. ShadowSystems Silver badge

    Good luck collecting.

    Assuming you can get a Russian company to leave the safety of their homeland & come out to defend themselves in court, they will just go back home & tell their government "Waaa! The big bad foreign courts are being mean to us! Make it stoooop!"

    At which point the Russian government will tell the company to ignore the court ordered penalties, pass a law to make any future such *foreign based* legal issues null & void inside Russia, and encourage other Russian business' to do whatever it takes to make Russia great again.

    Now, before you dogpile on me to call me names, replace "Russia" with America, Chinese, European, Middle Eastern, or any other nation on Earth that uses protectionism to browbeat their citizens into hating $OtherNation.

    It doesn't matter who does it, it needs to stop. We're supposed to be mature adults, so I wish some folks would start acting appropriately.

    *Sighs & shakes head sadly*

    It'll never happen...

    1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

      Re: We're supposed to be mature adults

      I wish we were.

      1. HildyJ Silver badge

        Re: We're supposed to be mature adults

        Mature fruits quickly become rotten fruits.

        I fear it is the same for people.

  2. msobkow Silver badge

    From what I've often read, Russia pretty much ignores piracy of anything that isn't Russian already, so they're threatening the world with the status quo. I'm quaking in my boots... or runners, as the case may be. :)

    1. Danny 14

      as much as I hate the SaaS model, this will simply mean Russia sits on old unpatched software. Im betting this stance will be endorsed by other western (and Israeli) governments.

    2. zuckzuckgo Bronze badge

      > I'm quaking in my boots... or runners, as the case may be. :)

      Those runners wouldn't happen to be Russian Reebok knockoffs?

  3. alain williams Silver badge

    So Russia looking at China

    and doing as China does.

    How much of a change will this be anyway ?

  4. heyrick Silver badge

    Time to pirate all those Russian sci-fi and disaster movies they've been making in recent years. After all, what's good for the goose.....

    1. Def Silver badge

      If you have a VKontakte account (hardly anyone in Russia actually uses Facebook) and know the right groups you already have all the pirated tv shows and movies available to stream through their platform as soon as they're released in the west.

      Piracy protections in Russia are pretty much non-existent already for non-Russian media of all kinds.

    2. Danny 2 Silver badge

      "all those Russian sci-fi and disaster movies"

      I was going to suggest terrible Hollywood remakes of the classic Russian films but Clooney beat me to it with Solaris. The Untouchables baby-carriage rolling down the steps - The Battleship Potemkin.

      Speaking of Sean, The Hunt for Red October.

      One brilliant anti-war Russian movie I would recommend is The Cuckoo. Finnish soldier, Russian soldier, and a Sami woman who cares for them.

      1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

        Inertia rules, ok

        Most Hollywood SF sucks. I also suspect Amazon & Netflix aren't fans either given the content listed under their 'SciFi' category.

        But I digress. And recommend "9 rota" as another Russian anti-war movie.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Beast of War - tank crew isolated among a hostile population in Afghanistan with a commander who can't face the reality of defeat.

        Battle of Sevastopol - focuses on Людмила Михайлівна Павличенко, a woman from Kyiv who becomes a sniper and kills over 300 facist invaders.

      3. Alan Brown Silver badge

        Solaris is arguable either way. The original needs a lot of editing and endless footage of japanese motorways doesn't mean much to a non-soviet audience

  5. TeeCee Gold badge
    Facepalm

    Yay!

    Go on! Burn those bridges! Burn them!

    This is all going to be a nightmare for some other poor bastard to sort out, once Mad Vlad stops twitching on his lamppost.

    1. jake Silver badge

      Re: Yay!

      Lamppost? Isn't accidentally falling out a window de rigueur over there?

      One wonders if that gymnast tart he's been boinking knows that the fastest way to a man's heart is between the fourth and fifth ribs ... with his level of paranoia I doubt anyone else could get close enough.

      1. Mike 137 Silver badge

        Re: Yay!

        "Lamppost? Isn't accidentally falling out a window de rigueur over there?"

        The other one has always been the convenient car accident.

        1. Zebo-the-Fat

          Re: Yay!

          Polonium tea??

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Yay!

            Novichok undies!

            Although there's the old fashioned solution of having a tester to avoid that. I reckon that Lavrov guy has to pre-wear Vlad's briefs for him and that's why he always looks so miserable.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Yay!

      re. Go on! Burn those bridges! Burn them!

      China's watching. And waiting :)

      That said, perhaps I shouldn't rejoice at Russian self-inflicted disaster, do we want to test how prepared and organised the Chinese are? This military conflict will come, sooner or later :(

      1. Blank Reg Silver badge

        Re: Yay!

        Putin getting his ass kicked by the Ukrainians and the sanctions could act as a deterrent to any move by China against Taiwan.

        Sure we would feel the pain of sanctions much more than we do the Russian sanctions, but that shouldn't deter us if the need arises.

        1. Danny 14

          Re: Yay!

          oh im sure the US are looking at the stats and Russian response times. I bet it has been an ELINT fest. Looking at flightradar et al there have been so many AWACS, drones, sniffer planes flying along the border it will have been an intelligence feast.

          The problem is, this is all on the backs of the poor Ukranians who are getting the shit kicked out of them, and not just the military.

          Here is hoping some of his cronies end up being poor and taking it out on Vlad.

        2. Alan Brown Silver badge

          Re: Yay!

          Chinese approaches towards "rebel provinces" has historically been to wait a couple of centuries and solve the problem by intermarriage between leaderships.

          Whenever there's been a war it's usually been instigated by the rebel province in question and at that point they usually lose (China either surrenders and absorbs them in two generations or simply retreats until the attacker supply lines are exhausted, then pounces)

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Yay!

        I'm surprised they haven't mentioned the return of Northeast Outer China (ceded to Russia under the Unequal Treaties in 1860)

        1. Alan Brown Silver badge

          Re: Yay!

          That and the Siberian independence movement which never really went away after it was "crushed" in the 1917 civil war

          I could see Japan wanting the Kuril islands back as well as taking a strong interest in acquiring Sakhalin if China regains its old territory.

          Such a Chinese acquisition is potentially extremely dangerous - North Korea is mostly supported by Russia (not China) via a 50km border strip and railway up to Vladivostok which would be closed off (China's been "tolerating" the Kims for decades, not supporting them as much as avoiding having millions of North Korean refugees dumped on them. They cut off oil/electricity exports to NK for an extended period in the 2000s but resumed them when it became clear the kleptocracy was taking everything it wanted and lettig the population starve/freeze)

          The Kims would lose the primary export route for most of their "questionable substances" (meaning: counterfeit currency and methamphetamine production) as well as the primary energy import route and there's always a risk of a nuclear tantrum or other event resulting in 5-7 million starving North Koreans fleeing northwards in search of food and shelter.

          China will need a LOT of support to prevent a humanitarian disaster unfolding in such a scenario and the western powers need to drop the politics & step up to assist if/when it happens. I suspect if they can get a guarantee of support they'd be more willing to take a firm stance about it, as ending the Korean Standoff would negate the reason for the USA to be in South Korea

  6. sabroni Silver badge
    FAIL

    re: countries that haven't ventured an opinion on the invasion and shelling of civilians

    So not the UK or the USA then?

    The things we're appalled by in Ukraine are the things we were doing in Iraq and Afghanistan. Israel regularly does them to the Palestinians.

    This is why Kier hates the "Stop the War" movement, they keep pointing out that most often we're the aggressors.

    At least there's an argument that Ukraine being part of NATO threatens Russian security. It is on their border. Remind me again why we needed to invade Iraq?

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge
      Meh

      Re: re: countries that haven't ventured an opinion on the invasion and shelling of civilians

      It's alright demonstrating when you are the aggressors, you might manage to change policy, but demonstrating against your side's participation when you are not the aggressors is pretty daft. What's the slogan going to be... Stop The Defence?

    2. jake Silver badge

      Re: re: countries that haven't ventured an opinion on the invasion and shelling of civilians

      PDNFTT

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: re: countries that haven't ventured an opinion on the invasion and shelling of civilians

        WTF?

        1. LionelB Bronze badge

          Re: re: countries that haven't ventured an opinion on the invasion and shelling of civilians

          Do keep up.

          (Perhaps we need PDNFTRT.)

          1. LionelB Bronze badge

            Re: re: countries that haven't ventured an opinion on the invasion and shelling of civilians

            Not sure what the downvotes are all about. The OP was clearly trolling, and judging by the responses, most on here seem to concur.

            Or is it just that we have declared war on slightly dated acronyms? (If so, fair enough.)

            1. jake Silver badge

              Re: re: countries that haven't ventured an opinion on the invasion and shelling of civilians

              I suspect that most of the downvotes in this thread are from kids who were born too late for Usenet.

              The downvotes for the OP are probably from people who recognize the post as yet another attempt at starting a simple flame war, which nearly always gets quite tedious.

              I'll just leave this here.

              Now where did I put that pages-long .sig ... Ah, well. Wrong font anyway.

              1. LionelB Bronze badge

                Re: re: countries that haven't ventured an opinion on the invasion and shelling of civilians

                Ah, the great ESW - wasted many hours on TJF back in the day.

                --

                You can't see it, but there is a space after those

              2. W.S.Gosset Silver badge

                Re: re: countries that haven't ventured an opinion on the invasion and shelling of civilians

                > Now where did I put that pages-long .sig

                Here ya go, I saved one for posterity:

                https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BIFF#An%20example%20Biffism

            2. jake Silver badge

              Re: re: countries that haven't ventured an opinion on the invasion and shelling of civilians

              "Or is it just that we have declared war on slightly dated acronyms?"

              Who is "we", Kemosabe?

              Shirley you know TINW ...

              1. W.S.Gosset Silver badge
                Happy

                Re: re: countries that haven't ventured an opinion on the invasion and shelling of civilians

                > Who is "we", Kemosabe?

                I heard it way back when, as:

                "What's this 'we' shit, white man?"

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: re: countries that haven't ventured an opinion on the invasion and shelling of civilians

      "At least there's an argument that Ukraine being part of NATO threatens Russian security. It is on their border"

      Yeah but Ukraine isn't in NATO, probably never would have been allowed in and after Russia finishes its invasion it'll have Poland on its border which is in NATO.

      So how does invading Ukraine stop NATO from moving closer to the Russian border? Invading Ukraine literally puts NATO on Russia's border.

      I'm no fan of what Israel gets up to in Palestine or what the West did in Iraq but if you think that line about NATO is valid then you must really love Israel's one about needing to defend itself from its neighbours and presumably even the Iraq war dossier looks rock solid.

      1. batfink Silver badge

        Re: re: countries that haven't ventured an opinion on the invasion and shelling of civilians

        Remember that whenever a country talks about wanting "secure borders" what they're actually talking about is their neighbours' far ones...

      2. Potemkine! Silver badge

        Re: re: countries that haven't ventured an opinion on the invasion and shelling of civilians

        Norway, Poland, Romania, Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia are all members of NATO and have a frontier with Russia.

        Following the troll's opinions, Russia would be justified to invade them too. And that may happen to the last 5 of them if Russia is let free to invade Ukraine.

        1. kat_bg

          Re: re: countries that haven't ventured an opinion on the invasion and shelling of civilians

          I have to correct you. Romania does not have a border with Russia. At least not now.

        2. doublelayer Silver badge

          Re: re: countries that haven't ventured an opinion on the invasion and shelling of civilians

          Romania doesn't border Russia. It will be one new NATO border they'll gain if they take Ukraine. Add in Finland (well, possible NATO-joined Finland or at least more NATO-aligned Finland). It's obvious that taking Ukraine will only increase their threat surface with regard to NATO, that they know this, and that they don't care. In other words, their defense excuse was a lie.

      3. Danny 14

        Re: re: countries that haven't ventured an opinion on the invasion and shelling of civilians

        That was what I thought initially. Vlad thinking "I will invade Ukraine, absorb it into new found Peoples Democratic Republic of Russia all because I dont want NATO on my border". Then all of a sudden realises that NATO is next door.

    4. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: re: countries that haven't ventured an opinion on the invasion and shelling of civilians

      "At least there's an argument that Ukraine being part of NATO threatens Russian security. It is on their border."

      Is there? If had to explain this once in another thread. Perhaps you didn't understand it.

      NATO was set up as a mutual defence pact to deter war by making invasion of a NATO country counter-productive.

      Putin has demonstrated what can happen to a country that's not a member of NATO.

      In consequence it looks like Finland which has a long border with Russia but currently isn't a member will become one.

      I don't recall NATO being involved in Iraq. I do remember Iraq invading Kuwait.

      1. jdiebdhidbsusbvwbsidnsoskebid Bronze badge

        Re: re: countries that haven't ventured an opinion on the invasion and shelling of civilians

        "NATO was set up as a mutual defence pact to deter war by making invasion of a NATO country counter-productive."

        All true, and NATO has always been about defence against a potential threat, not military invasion by itself. Encouraging former Soviet states to join NATO was a way of neutralising some of that threat. But do the Russian leaders actually believe that? Probably not.

        In order to try and get into the Russian leadership mindset, imagine that the Berlin wall had fallen the other way. Imagine that over the next few years, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, the Netherlands, Belgium and Italy all left the European Community, joined the Warsaw Pact and embraced a single Communist Defence state. How would the UK, France and Spain feel about that?

        That's the situation NATO finds itself in, almost a victim of its own success and facing a Russian leader who not only feels very threatened, but also has the capacity and will to act on that perceived threat - a dangerous combination.

        1. genghis_uk

          Re: re: countries that haven't ventured an opinion on the invasion and shelling of civilians

          Putin doesn't feel threatened, that is just a smokescreen to justify his invasion while trying to strong arm the West into acceptance of unreasonable demands. Invasion was always the end goal.

          He is trying to turn the clock back to the 1980's as he never accepted Russian 'defeat' in the cold war. Not that there was really a winner/loser there but Russia lost significant acreage. He wants to Make Russia Great Again(tm) by recreating the old empire and has been gradually working towards that - ask Georgia, Crimea, Chechnya. Ukraine is the latest and the nearest to Europe. Finland may want to worry if you look back to their borders at the turn of the 20th centrury

          1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

            Re: re: countries that haven't ventured an opinion on the invasion and shelling of civilians

            Have you err... checked Russia's current population density? Then maybe add in Ukraine, and you should see that Russia doesn't need territory, it needs people. Especially as it seems to be in the process of sacrificing a chunk of it's workforce.

            Back in the Soviet days, Ukraine was their bread basket. OK, so that was after the disaster caused by science. I mean Lysenko. That lead to mass starvation, and also obvious animosity between Ukraine & Russia. But post-collapse, Russia improved it's agriculture. It didn't need USAid grain any more, and exports it's surplus.

            But that's also been a problem for Ukraine. It had it's coup, pivoted into the EU's embrace. And found quotas. And lost Russia as a trading partner. Other nations suffered as well, eg EU pre-war sanctions cost Poland and other nations billions in lost trade.

            But such is politics. US announces bans on Russian oil & gas. Tough move, energy costs rise. Not a problem if you don't buy Russian, and export your own oil & gas. There are winners and losers in every war. What I can't figure out is if hyperinflation is intentional, or our politicians are f'ng idiots. UK produces oil & gas, and should be producing more. Or maybe thinking 'hmm, perhaps we could cut or cap duty & tax?" given those make up most of the price.

            Anyway, I guess an amusing counter-sanction could be to release de-DRM'd software and other content to the world.

            1. Alan Brown Silver badge

              Re: re: countries that haven't ventured an opinion on the invasion and shelling of civilians

              " Russia doesn't need territory, it needs people."

              Annexing Ukraine would result in having 1/4 of the newly enlarged total population being actively hostile to the country and attempting to sabotage it

              "Biting off more than you can chew" is one way of putting it - and this kind of failure is likely to embolden the Siberian independence movement in addition to encouraging China to seek the return of ceded territory from the 1850s.

              Russia is a huge country with a very low GDP, spread very thinly. The claim to Ukraine is rather tenuous at best (and if valid, then Sweden has a valid claim to St Petersberg, etc)

      2. Danny 14

        Re: re: countries that haven't ventured an opinion on the invasion and shelling of civilians

        Indeed, Putin has just set a NATO marketing campaign in motion.

        "Dont want to join our club? You do have one of those neighbours that kicks your fences down and shits on your lawn each night"

    5. Cederic Silver badge

      Re: re: countries that haven't ventured an opinion on the invasion and shelling of civilians

      "At least there's an argument that Ukraine being part of NATO threatens Russian security. It is on their border."

      It's a highly flawed argument though, given three NATO members already share a border with Russia.

      As for "things we were doing in Iraq and Afghanistan" perhaps you could help me understand why I missed news of the intentional bombardment of civilian communities in those countries by the UK, let alone artillery attacks on civilian evacuation routes during a ceasefire.

      1. AIBailey

        Re: re: countries that haven't ventured an opinion on the invasion and shelling of civilians

        ...given three NATO members already share a border with Russia.

        There are actually five countries. Which kind of undermines the whole "not wanting NATO on the border" argument.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: re: countries that haven't ventured an opinion on the invasion and shelling of civilians

        The bit where we put a laser guided bomb down the airvent of a bomb shelter in Baghdad?

        Or the bit where we tortured POWs ?

        1. Danny 14

          Re: re: countries that haven't ventured an opinion on the invasion and shelling of civilians

          NVM

        2. Outski Silver badge

          Re: re: countries that haven't ventured an opinion on the invasion and shelling of civilians

          For the hard of thinking: there's a difference between a fuck-up and indiscriminate bombing campaign targeting civilian residential areas, civil society infrastructure and nuclear power plants.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: re: countries that haven't ventured an opinion on the invasion and shelling of civilians

        I remember how the US didn't feel threatened at all by Soviet missiles in Cuba. Can't imagime why Russia would feel different about armed US bases around all its borders. Even in Uzbekistan!

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: re: countries that haven't ventured an opinion on the invasion and shelling of civilians

      There are elements there which are invalid, but I'd like someone to explain clearly the difference between Russia invading Ukraine and the allied invasion of Iraq in 2003. The reasons for the Iraq invasion were proven false (no weapons of mass destruction) just as I'm pretty sure the Russian pretences of war (sorry, "special military operation") are false. In both cases, it seems that the intelligence services were gently encouraged to produce reports corroborating the views of those in power.

      While some elements can be picked apart as different, the core facts are a large country has bullied its way into a country under false pretences and is killing its people.

      Note that none of this makes what Putin is doing in any way "right". It's a horrible war where, as ever, the general populace are suffering and dying. I hope for a swift breakout of peace, but it seem unlikely.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: re: countries that haven't ventured an opinion on the invasion and shelling of civilians

        There certainly are similarities but there are also a few differences.

        As I understand it many Iraqi people weren't that upset about the invasion or the toppling of Saddam. He was a monster and they wanted rid of him. What they were upset about what the rather ineffective attempts at creating a new government afterwards that led to the country sliding into anarchy.

        The vast majority of Ukraine on the other hand is quite happy with the government it has and isn't interested in having a new one. I don't see many Ukrainians rushing onto the streets to welcome the liberating Russian troops and tear down statues of their oppressive former dictator. Is that just biased Western media coverage or just that it's not happening?

        After the invasion, Iraq is also at least theoretically still an independent country with it's own government, army etc. After Russia has finished with Ukraine it will just be another part of Russia. Putin has made that clear with all his talk of Ukraine being a "made up country". I know this is a bit of a technicality but at least the aim was for Iraq to remain as an independent country run by Iraqis rather than a part of Russia run by Moscow as Ukraine will be.

        It's certainly not a legal justification for the Iraq war in the sense that any war can be nice and legal and I'm sure that war wasn't started purely for the benefit of the Iraqi people either but I think this is still a big difference between the two wars.

        I didn't think the invasion of Iraq should have happened but the fact that it did doesn't justify anything even remotely like it happening again.

        1. Alan Brown Silver badge

          Re: re: countries that haven't ventured an opinion on the invasion and shelling of civilians

          It's not happening even in the "breakaway" areas. They may not have liked being Ukrainian but they DO NOT WANT to be Russian

    7. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: re: countries that haven't ventured an opinion on the invasion and shelling of civilians

      Who's this "we", colonialist?

      .ie

    8. Danny 14

      Re: re: countries that haven't ventured an opinion on the invasion and shelling of civilians

      Correct me if im wrong but I havent seen any massive major levelling of Palestinian *cities* by daily artillery, air strikes, missile strikes - all after a condemnation by the international community?

      I cant seem to remember the US or UK doing so either.

  7. This post has been deleted by a moderator

    1. cyberdemon Silver badge
      Mushroom

      Modern-day nazis..

      What's different perhaps is the rhetoric, the false-flaggery, and the sophisticated modern propaganda in this age of mass surveillance and active manipulation or "optimisation" of public opinion, i.e. what Facebook does.

      So powerful it seems is this propaganda technique, that he can go round accusing European states of being Nazis, while behaving like Hitler himself. He can complain of Genocide, while he brazenly commits it. And I worry that one day he will accuse the west of launching a nuke, while launching his..

      Right now, he seems to be raising his own Zombie Troll army out of mentally-vulnerable isolated men all over the world, who will display his new Russian Swastika because they are depressed, angry, and want to fight someone.

      What elevates Nazism from common-or-garden Fascism and makes it so dangerous, is highly effective targeted marketing.

      Thanks Facebook, Google, Amazon and chums, for your contribution to the end of humanity..

      1. Alan Brown Silver badge

        Re: Modern-day nazis..

        The Nazis were experts at accusing the other side of what they themselves were up to. It's part of the Big Lie playbook

        It's becoming very clear that there's been a concerted information warfare campaign being waged out of Russia for at least the last decade to soften up the West and until this invasion, it was succeeding.

        1. Outski Silver badge

          Re: Modern-day nazis..

          As our boy Volodymyr says, the best way to work out what Russia's about to do is look at what they're accusing others of doing.

          BTW Watch Servant of the People on All4 if you can, cross between Thick of It, Yes, Prime Minister and a bit of Dad's Army, and very bloody funny - "Putin's a hublot?" (Translates, as a play on words, to "Putin's a dick?") See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Putin_khuylo!

    2. Annihilator Silver badge

      I think this is the point isn't it? There's little to no way of them sending money outside of the country to pay for these goods and services anyway, so there's little alternative.

      1. Dave 126 Silver badge

        I'm also amazed by the number of Brits who tolerate Johnson's track record of telling demonstrable lies. "He's doung his best, that all we can do " many say of him, despite all evidence to the contrary. Heck, he was sacked as a journalist by euro sceptic newspapers in the 90s for just making up negative stories about the EU.

        Still, Putin remains the experienced master of 'flooding the zone with shit', and then telling people that's exactly what he's doing.

        1. jdiebdhidbsusbvwbsidnsoskebid Bronze badge

          "I'm also amazed by the number of Brits who tolerate Johnson's track record of telling demonstrable lies"

          That's sadly how politics works - lies and no comeback. Just look at recent events in the commons where Johnson demonstrably lied, but the only person who had to leave the commons was the person who called him a liar!

          It's not honesty that wins votes, it's whipping up support that does. There was a good article once about how Trump had such a huge following despite being an out and out liar. Lots of people saw the same lies as everyone else but were psychologically able to brush them off as rhetoric, knowing full well they were false, and instead focus on the underlying sentiment (e.g. "make America great again") as the part they chose to align with. Other people would see the lies and focus on those precise words instead, turning against him for that reason. When Trump was chanting "lock her up" (about Hilary Clinton) most people knew that he wasn't actually serious about that, but chose to side with him because of his more general stance against what he was non-specifically portraying as the enemy.

          That same game is being played it in UK politics now. The Brexit message on a bus was a prime example. Those opposed to Brexit were reviled by the blatent lie, those in favour knew, but didn't care, that it was a lie - and enough people bought into the general message (make Britain great again) to outvote those that focussed on the specific (incorrect) message and were turned off by it.

          1. Alan Brown Silver badge

            " instead focus on the underlying sentiment (e.g. "make America great again") as the part they chose to align with."

            Yes, but others noticed that "Drain the Swamp" was the slogain of Benito Mussolini, "I really don't care, do you?" was the slogan of the northern Italian fascists and "Making Germany great again" was used by Adolph & friends.

            It also helps to realise that the largest grouping of Nazis (actual card carrying, sieg-heiling, swastika waving ones) outside Germany were in the USA - complete with Nuremberg style rallies at Madison Square Gardens in 1939.

            A lot of this has to do with Hitler's unabashed fanboying of Jim Crow laws (it's all in Mein Kampf) and rolling them into Nazi policy along with lightly modified Jim Crow iconography/philosophy. Eugenics, concentration camps and flag worship are only a few of the things he imported from the USA, which is why the American South in particular were so supportive of Nazi policies and prevented the USA entering the European war until Germany declared war on Uncle Sam (If Hitler hadn't done that it's arguable that the US wouldn't have been able to enter the Battle of the Atlantic)

        2. Danny 14

          the guy is certainly covered in teflon. Just when the partygate reports are getting the edge, he gets to dodge it pretending to be as good a churchill. peddle lies, fuck up refugee papers, who cares, he can do no wrong by promising the earth to the public and doing precisely nothing.

          Just when people need to be reminded, another catastrophe sidelines that argument.

          1. Alan Brown Silver badge

            The latest wheeze is to claim it's not good to change PM when the country is in a crisis

            Like the UK didn't boot Chamberlain for his hero in 1940? Or didn't do exactly the same thing during WW1?

    3. Outski Silver badge

      Actually, a lot of people listened to Haw Haw (William Joyce); although it was officially discouraged, it wasn't proscribed. It was generally a case of "what bullshit is that old traitor spouting today?" spurring people to listen.

      As for Mosley, the BUF was dishearteningly strong, even after the shoeing they received at the Battle of Cable Street, running camps at retreats, particularly in West Sussex. They made a return after the war, renamed as the Union Movement, focusing on how jews were profiteering from post-war austerity and rationing (note to reader: they weren't) and how 'foreign' refugees were being given priority to social housing (repeat note). See any parallels there?

      1. Danny 2 Silver badge

        @Outski

        "Shoeing". What a wonderful word, never heard it before but instantly knew what you meant. (My father had a belt).

        The Telegraph reports Tony Blair just said he may have been wrong on invading Iraq, now that Gordon Brown is getting all the media attention on the Ukraine.

        1. Outski Silver badge

          Take the boy out of the East End...

          You might also want to look up the 43 Group, a bunch of mostly but not exclusively jewish ex-servicemen disgusted that, after defeating Nazism in Europe, Mosley was active again in Blighty. So they found where their meetings were, and went in, cricket bats, hobnailed boots and 6 years of military experience to hand against a bunch of shites who'd been interned as sympathisers, or 'exempted' on medical grounds, or were plain old spivs, with, as they say, hilarious consequences.

          Well, I find a bunch of Nazis and fascists lying bleeding on the floor pretty fucking hilarious.

          Quoth Rik: Remember, kids: always wash your hands after touching a fascist.

          1. Alan Brown Silver badge

            It may not come as a surprise to most that the safest place to openly be a Nazi after WW2 was inside the borders of the USA. Even then most of them rebranded themselves as "anticommunists" for at least the 1940s-60s

            1. Outski Silver badge

              Or Argentina - Juan Peron was quite happy to harbour them.

      2. Androgynous Cupboard Silver badge

        Haw Haw leaps to mind whenever I think about Tucker Carlson's defence of Putin - "did he ever murder my family?" With that attitude let's hope he never pulls jury duty.

        While any sort of direct conflict between the US and Russia would be a disaster, a tiny part of me wants it to happen in the hope we see Carlson and Trump put in an internment camp for the duration.

        1. Blank Reg Silver badge

          That is the typical republican point of view, if it doesn't directly affect me then it's not important

  8. Spanners Silver badge
    Meh

    "arbitration, often in Stockholm or London"

    So, ruling out irrelevant nowheres, that will just be Stockholm then. Or will they have to start doing it in the EU now?

    The capital of a wannabe historical theme park is probably not much use now.

    1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

      Re: "arbitration, often in Stockholm or London"

      London is the global capital of business arbitration. It's not universal, New York, Stockholm, Switzerland, (Hong Kong at least used to be), all get heavily used - but where two businesses from different countries have to sign a contract they'll quite frequently agree to do it under English (and Welsh) contract law because it's well understood, more predictable than the way European* contract law tends to be interpreted and takes place in a well-run jurisdiction where it's pretty much unheard of to bribe a judge.

      It's a growing area of UK exports. As well as the huge amount of legal work that gets done in London as part of doing business there.

      If a government wants to issue debt, but is worried that it might not be trusted (say due to past defaults) it will usually issue that debt in London, under English law or New York under US law. This allows governments to borrow at lower rates, because they can't just default without legal consequences, as they could under their own law. The good point being governments can borrow if they need to, the bad side being there's no easy way to fix it when they screw up and borrow too much, like Greece or Argentina.

      * This isn't a criticism of European judiciaries by the way. But the jurisprudence on contracts is a bit different in Western Europe, and judges are more likely to heavily interpret the contract and try and correct it after the fact. To try and come to some kind of fair arrangement. Whereas traditionally English contract law is more minimalist - and where both parties are professionally advised and considered to have the ability to understand what they signed, judges will do the minimum to fix the dispute using the written terms of the contract (or ending it) unless there is serious reason to do otherwise. Hence the outcome of a legal case is much more predictable for both sides.

      1. Outski Silver badge

        Re: "arbitration, often in Stockholm or London"

        Hence the outcome of a legal case is much more predictable for both sides.

        Mike Lynch might disagree with you, there

        Generally, though, a pretty astute summary, upticked

  9. DrXym Silver badge

    It's cloudy out there

    In these days of cloud computing and web 2.0, I wonder how effective their piracy splurge would even be. Not to mention the serious problem they'll face getting hardware to run the software on.

    1. Blank Reg Silver badge

      Re: It's cloudy out there

      I believe somewhere in Russia they are still making vacuum tubes so they have the option to go really old school with their home grown computers

  10. F. Frederick Skitty

    I hadn't thought about it until reading this article, but wonder how much Russian business relies on the cloud platforms from Amazon, Google and MicroSoft. Despite Putin's push to autarky, I doubt private businesses there have done any different than in the West and have moved wholesale to the cloud. If so, then cutting off the big three cloud providers for Russian companies would have a massive impact on their economy.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I'd say that stripping the Russia located AS numbers out of BGP routing would pretty much make certain that they wouldn't have access to anything cloudy. It would stop the cyberattacks, though, because they use breached systems outside Russia for that but it could mess up their C&C for a while.

    2. Graham Cobb Silver badge

      Well, those are the top 3, of course, but there are Russian cloud providers that can be encouraged to step up, and there are already existing Chinese ones which may remain accessible as long as Putin keeps the Chinese government on his side.

      Their biggest issue will probably getting storage and chips to build the expanded capacity.

      I could imagine Putin rationing cloud capacity to provide for the needs of the military, the state and major economic entities (in that order).

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Maybe swap the first two round.

      2. lglethal Silver badge
        Go

        I find it more than a little funny that Xi still hasnt come out and completely attacked Putin. I mean China spent billions developing for the Winter Olympics in order to get some nice headlines (mainly internally, but also to boost their international exposure away from Xinjiang and South China Sea aggression topics). And Xi's best buddy Putin didnt even wait one week until the main Olympics were over before invading. Now the Olympics in China may as well have not happened for all of the newsworthy headlines and good will it's generating.

        And the thing is, there really was no pressing need for Putin to have invaded when he did. He could have waited a couple of months, let Xi get his headlines and then invaded, nothing would have changed in the situation with Ukraine (hell his General's might have had more time to actually learn how to supply an invasion). Yet he still decided to shit all over Xi's games.

        I'm really surprised there hasnt been more fallout in that relationship...

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Maybe he decided to strike when European gas reserves were at an all-time low, before they started post-winter replenishment?

          1. graeme leggett

            though picking the start of the mud season seems to have been a poor compromise

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              I suspect that was a fun side effect of waiting for the Winter Olympics to finish. With it, the winter too finished, turning previously frozen ground into a major problem for vehicles with badly maintained tyres.

              Good.

          2. Outski Silver badge

            Perhaps closing the Rough storage facility wasn't such a great idea after all...

            https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jun/20/uk-gas-storage-prices-rough-british-gas-centrica

          3. First Light Silver badge

            Any word on what caused the Sellindge fire? It does seem to have happened at a suspiciously convenient time given the current conflict.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              While the full investigation is yet to be published, it wasn't to the best of my knowledge a software or networking issue. Transformers, like any other power electronics do occassionally go wrong no matter how over-engineered. Within the transmission network, one prefers to remove things before they get to that state, however Identifying precisely when to intervene on something before it fails is non-trivial. This is not without implications for cost on either detection methods or early replacement.

              Other layers of security exist, not least of which are the maintenance of rolling reserves; rapid starting storage, commercial turn down contracts and other aspects of system design to provide defence in depth. Panicky market mechanisms "sense" potential weaknesses and act in a derogatory manner exacerbating the problems... e.g. if there is a potential shortfall then the market will detect that and set prices accordingly... UP!

              Generation and interconnection doesn't enjoy quite the same degree of redundancy; but we have IFA1, IFA2; BritNed, and a bunch of others being built that provide more of a hedge than before.

              You are right though, there almost could not have been worse timing for such a fault.

              Lot of good people work mostly invisibly to manage the increasingly complex network; despite the best efforts of Government and it's Quangos to mess things up through 30 years of ruinous privatisation.

              Unsurprisingly, A/C because I might happen to be one of those good people trying to do the right thing.

              -Power in Trust.

        2. DrXym Silver badge

          I think China is perfectly content to sit back and watch both sides rip chunks out of each other. They're probably even strategizing business opportunities they can make out of the situation.

          1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

            It's probably annoying for Chinese generals.

            Their two enemies, one is too strong and is unlikely to fight a land war with you, the other looks like it could be taken by a Grannie doing tai-chi

        3. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

          But Putin likes wars during Olympics. It's his thing. Summer 2008 invasion of Georgia, and Winter 2014 and 2022 for Ukraine. To be fair he also invaded Ukraine in 2015 - but sometimes it's just too long to wait for the next Olympics...

  11. LDS Silver badge

    Running vulnerable software...

    The funny thing is they will get a far higher risk of running vulnerable software because they can't patch it easily or quickly - something that wasn't much of an issue forty years ago. So they will become better targets for cyber attacks. Sure, they could cut them ourselves out of the internet - but that's a double edged sword.

  12. Dave Null

    It'll be like cars in Cuba, but software

    No security updates, no support from vendors and open to killswitches from vendors ("RU keyboard language detected? Click here to call your licencing representative to discuss") etc.

    Russia will have a software landscape of out of date, unpatched and unsecure apps from enterprise to infra to consumer to app store. Good luck replacing all big vendor OS and applications with their own home-grown versions.

    1. Outski Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: It'll be like cars in Cuba, but software

      Perhaps our Russian sysadmin brethren and sistren will have one last Patch Tuesday today, with a lot of extra special goodies just for them :o)

      1. Clausewitz 4.0 Bronze badge
        Devil

        Re: It'll be like cars in Cuba, but software

        Russians are know to be good reverse engineers.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Russia is considering

    should change their official flag to skull and crossbones, and national anthem to one from the Pirates of the Caribbean, no less irrational that what they're doing.

    Not that it matters though, because, frankly, Russia and Russians are already fucked, and will remain fucked for a VERY long time. There is absolutely no realistic path for them to unfuck themselves, even if they, in yet another irrational move - suddently stopped in Ukraine, apologized and withdrew. Or even if they were to launch all their nukes, to fuck everybody and everything else. Which is, frankly, the only 'meaningful' thing they can still do :(

    ... although, given their military performance displayed in Ukraine (sure, one-sided, but pretty, scarily, consistent across the board, on every possible level, at least give them credit for that consistency!), I no longer dismiss absurd comments that if they do press this magic 'red button', it will either not work, or do something totally unexpected (kind of 'Lazy Gun', with a sense of humour ;). It's kind of a miracle they haven't nuked themselves (or the whole world) by mistake over the last 80 odd years...

    1. Danny 2 Silver badge

      Re: Russia is considering

      "I no longer dismiss absurd comments that if they do press this magic 'red button', it will either not work"

      This is supposedly written by a FSB analyst -

      The only cynical thing I can add is that I do not believe that VV Putin will press the red button to destroy the whole world.

      33 First of all, there is not one person who makes the decision, at least someone will jump out. And there are many people there – there is no “single red button”.

      34 Secondly, there are some doubts that everything successfully functions there. Experience shows that the higher the transparency and control, the easier it is to identify deficiencies. And where it is unclear who and how controls, but always bravura reports – everything is always wrong there. I am not sure that the red button system is functioning as declared. Besides, the plutonium charge has to be replaced every 10 years.

      35 Thirdly, and most disgusting and sad, I personally do not believe in the willingness to sacrifice a man who does not let his closest representatives and ministers near him, nor the members of the Federation Council. Whether out of fear of coronavirus or attack, it doesn’t matter. If you are afraid to let your most trusted ones near you, how will you dare to destroy yourself and your loved ones inclusive?

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Russia is considering

        >Russia and Russians are already fucked, and will remain fucked for a VERY long time

        I suspect Belarus is even more fucked.

        Short term it is going to have an army of unpaid and unfed Russian troops camped in it.

        Medium term Russia is going to asset strip it of food and materials they can't get from the west.

        Longer term we are going to get back into trade with Russia as soon as possible, we need their commodities, they need our money. Nobody needs to trade with Belarus and nobody will want to spend the political capital to trade with an enemy. Europe isn't going to be welcoming starving Belarusian refugees.

  14. Plest Silver badge
    Pint

    Fantastic! Russia, you go for it...

    We all know the dear Ruskies are running mostly on ripped of cracked software and live by the keygen, well you better handover some money to Eugene Kaspersky 'cos you're going to need a shit load of good AV/anti-malware when all those dodgy cracks and keygens loaded with shitty malware written by the nasty guys, get inside your country's systems!

    Given that you're slowly being cut off financially and it's only a matter of time until the world banks put you on "special measures" ( ie, pocket money to keep critical infrastructure going ), you really don't need all those office PCs going tits up and demanding bitcoin to be unlocked when you ain't got a brass rouble to rub together!

    Raising a pint to every malware writer putting their shitty code into keygens and packing them off through torrents to Vlad's New Eden!

    1. First Light Silver badge

      Re: Fantastic! Russia, you go for it...

      Aren't most the malware writers from there, though?

    2. Clausewitz 4.0 Bronze badge
      Devil

      Re: Fantastic! Russia, you go for it...

      You just gave a fantastic idea. To create a legitimate company specialized in software cracks/keygen in Russia. Malware-free, with contracts et al.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Fantastic! Russia, you go for it...

        They also just destroyed any chance of there being a Russian software industry.

        Ban foreign software and you promote internal use of open source or the writing of native alternatives.

        Just allow everyone to pirate Windows and there is no local software, no innovation, no future trade with Russian software companies but a brain drain of Russian programmers as soon as they can travel.

  15. Missing Semicolon Silver badge
    Devil

    AllOfMp3

    Will that be back now?

  16. FuzzyTheBear
    Mushroom

    Time to cut off all access

    Like Kirk said one day to Scotty " Pull the plug , Scotty "

    They want to mess with the internet ? ok .. let's cut off all their accesses to the net and telephone cables.

    All that is one inch outside their territory gets cut with chainsaws. No more MrNiceGuy ( TM ) , time to take the gloves off.

    Hit the cables , destroy satellites , turn the keys , whatever it takes. And i don't mean wait and see and wait a bit more , hesitate , reconsider then wait .. i mean they should be cut-off now. Every minute we play nice to them , they stab us in the back. They do not deserve to be anywhere near the internet.

    Cut the snake's head.

    1. Jon 37

      Re: Time to cut off all access

      There is value in keeping the Internet communications open, so people in Russia can get news and information from non-Russian sources that don't have to toe the party line.

      If you want the Russian people to vote Putin out and/or stage a coup, then they need to know what's happening. If all they hear is Russian propoganda, they would have no reason to do that.

  17. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

    They'll have to answer to...

    ORACLE !

  18. StrangerHereMyself Bronze badge

    Bad move

    This sounds like a very bad move to me as it would place Russia outside the civilized world and could result in them being completely isolated. It's also rancorous and ill thought through as software piracy is already rampant in Russia without such a law.

    But formalizing it Russia is digging itself into a hole it cannot get out of.

    1. First Light Silver badge

      Re: Bad move

      The moment they rolled into Ukraine they put themselves outside of the civilized world.

      Well, Putin and his cronies did.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Bad move

        And Ukraine didn't even have WMDs

        1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

          Re: Bad move

          But it did talk about re-starting it's WMD program. In hindsight, that may not have been wise. But that's always been a proliferation issue. Nations that feel threatened may decide they want their own nuclear capability.

          1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

            Re: Bad move

            Just meant that this was a blatant political move to make the President look tough and paper over problems at home.

            It wasn't justified by the military threat of a Ukraine that could launch WMDs in 45 minutes at a capital city 4000km away

            1. Binraider Silver badge

              Re: Bad move

              It was justified in Putin's mind by the discovery of oil in very large quantities off the coast of the Crimea, and by the fall of the pro-Russian government.

              Putin does not want a pro-EU petrochemical state competing with his only source of income. And nor do the gulf states either given lacklustre reactions of OPEC.

              Ergo, make up a load of shit to sell at home, and stomp on those oilfields. Exxon and Shell lost a bunch of equipment when Crimea were overrun.

              The short term economic damage versus the worlds hopeless hydrocarbon addiction is a calculated risk in the part of Putin. He's gambling on the long run paying off. The resolve and potential Collapse of governments to keep up sanctions is going to be challenged in the very near future.

              £3000/yr energy bills on average to small properties plus uneconomic transport are enough to bring down governments.

              And in the meantime 44m people are stuck under law of the gun.

              As much as a fat V8 is appealling, there's something to this electrification argument. Even if it is bloody difficult to do.

              1. Fred Daggy Bronze badge

                Re: Bad move

                I think that Europe isn't needing to have a competing petrochemical industry. More like self sufficiency, mostly. This could be the kick to get everything started.

                Lots of renewable energy, as many power saving technologies as possible (perhaps world leading), topped up by North Sea, Middle East and other sources of oil.

                Energy independence give a lot of freedom. Ability to change sides, or have no side at all. And buy from the lowest bidder pricewise, or best, ethically.

                But yeah, Europe will be sending Russia as few Euros as possible. A direct loss, plus any associated industry. For the gain of Europe.

  19. Long John Silver
    Pirate

    Sooner or later so-called IP was bound to become a weapon in sanctions 'diplomacy

    Russia's proposed breach of IP based rentier economic hegemony is welcome.

    The concept of IP is inherently false. Even worse, it endangers the thing it supposedly protects: creativity and industrial innovation. In a world where knowledge is kept behind paywalls (copyright) and monopoly is applied to applications of knowledge (patents) a core precursor for free-rein of ideas is stifled. Scrapping copyright and patents would release cultural ferment. The alternative to rentier economics is return to competing for patronage to support projects ranging from the mundane (pop music and film) via literary culture to innovation in science. In fact, the higher reaches of culture, as once were exemplified in universities, were, and many still are, dependent upon patronage from public funds, charitable bodies, and individual donations.

    In post-rentier economics (essentially return to what pertained at the time of Leonardo da Vinci) the end product - be it an idea or digital artefact constructed from an idea - has no monetary value whatsoever. Similarly, use of ideas for constructing physical artefacts like widgets and pharmaceuticals carries no expense beyond that of construction.

    In rentier economics applicable to the world of ideas, all constructed artefacts, digital and physical, are deemed as products to be sold on a open market. Supposedly IP determined markets are fallacious. They operate on monopoly basis. There can be no price discovery. 'Scarcity' is absent although pretence is made of it being the driving force. Lack of scarcity is obvious with digital artefacts because they can be copied endlessly without degradation. Scarcity of physical products protected by patent is false too and attained by restriction on production.

    Post-rentier economics primarily consists of markets in skills. People, and companies, must convince other people that what they offer to produce given adequate funding is of cultural worth or monetary worth when later developed as physical product in an open (non-monopoly) market. The bedrock for markets in skills and imagination is 'reputation'. This is earned through previous deeds other people set store by. Reputation alone has value. This determines whether patronage can be obtained. It is reputation that requires legal protection: not any ideas generated. A key to disseminating reputation is an ethic requiring full disclosure (attribution) of ideas from other sources which have been re-presented (e.g. an alternative ending to a novel written by somebody else), otherwise borrowed from, and/or developed along new lines.

    A simple example should suffice. Consider post-rentier economics film making. Many would-be film makers emerge from college with a short work they created during their studies. That past attainment indicates potential for greater things and access to resource raised through patronage enables undertaking bigger projects. Most likely, the sample "short" would act as passport into joining a co-operative of the like minded or being taken on by a cottage industry film company. The company would raise patronage for further works on basis of reputation gained from previous works. Patrons (e.g. through crowd funding) are not "investors". They seek no financial return. They look forward to a finished work to which they may have contributed a tiny sum.

    The final product in digital incarnation has no intrinsic monetary worth despite cost of making it. Anyone may distribute it so long as attribution is intact.The originators may generate further income through selling added-value goods and services associated with their works. Global reach of the Internet enables easy dissemination and maximises prospect of recognition, i.e. reputation, from people interested in that film genre.

    Just as for Leonardo da Vinci, people making a living through film (writers, technicians, producers, directors, and when applicable, actors) live off income streams generated through patronage. Nobody owes them a living other than that which is freely given. They have no royalties to live off and thus must make pension arrangement from income. Use of imagination offers revenue from sale of physical artefacts. For instance, autographed - indeed personalised - DVD copies much as when a photographer sells signed copies of his work. Operating in this manner encourages financial prudence regarding operating costs. A host of intermediaries effectively made redundant by digital production - they don't yet know it - are surplus to requirements and cannot gorge off a carcass from which production companies receive only a small share. End recipients - so-called 'consumers' - are left with greater personal disposable income and if so inclined may exercise more power of patronage.

    Russia is proposing only limited renunciation of "rights" culture. However, that may be sufficient to provoke broad questioning of the rotten foundation to a huge body of law. Doing their sums, nations might begin to grasp that total abolition of the concept of IP along lines mentioned above, would produce greater benefit to their own economies than losses resulting from not being able to enforce indigenous "rights". African and Latin American countries could start by renouncing copyright on academic materials and patents for pharmaceuticals.

    The only deeply vulnerable nation is the USA. It is highly dependent upon supposed IP rights. Perhaps the USA shall rue the day when it bearded Russia.

    1. doublelayer Silver badge

      Re: Sooner or later so-called IP was bound to become a weapon in sanctions 'diplomacy

      "In post-rentier economics (essentially return to what pertained at the time of Leonardo da Vinci) the end product - be it an idea or digital artefact constructed from an idea - has no monetary value whatsoever."

      Ah, Leonardo da Vinci. A man who famously never needed anyone's patronage to produce his work, and whose original art is valued at zero because the copies are exactly the same. If you're going to argue about IP rights and the benefits and drawbacks thereof, it helps not to use examples that directly contradict your statements.

  20. Binraider Silver badge

    While I haven't had to resort to it for a very, very long time; underground computing "resources" were generally widely available on Russian hosted sites.

    Back in the good old BBS days, Eastern Europe was pretty good for it too.

    You have to wonder which side of the fence those capable and skilled hackers sit on today. The humble dial up modem had a lot to do with the downfall of the Soviet Union, and those same skills might be the ones needed today for not dissimilar reasons.

    1. F. Frederick Skitty

      "You have to wonder which side of the fence those capable and skilled hackers sit on today."

      I suspect most of them are on the Western European and North American side of the fence. By which I mean they're working for high salaries and with higher standards of living outside of Russia.

  21. Clausewitz 4.0 Bronze badge
    Devil

    Safe Heaven for Hackers

    The west is pushing Russia to become the true, undeniable safe heaven for hackers.

    1. jake Silver badge

      Re: Safe Heaven for Hackers

      The commentard known as Clausewitz 4.0 suggests: "The west is pushing Russia to become the true, undeniable safe heaven for hackers."

      As a hacker, I feel perfectly safe here in the heaven called California. Somehow I rather think I wouldn't feel quite so safe in Russia.

      If by "hackers" you actually mean "crooks", kindly say "crooks". Ta.

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Is this really new?

    I remember walking down Nevsky Prospekt in St. Petersburg in 2004 and seeing a little store in a pedestrian underpass. They were selling very reasonably priced homemade CD and DVD compilations of all your major commercial software packages with cracked licenses.

    In later years, they moved to warez servers. Our software piracy team tracked one warez server running in a Moscow police station.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Is this really new?

      Seen much the same in Hong Kong and Bangkok. The latter especially!

      Back when I was a poor student, access to pro applications on CD for a couple of dollars had it's uses. I could never have gotten legitimate access to Visual C and a bunch of other programs on student budget. Yet they were "needed" to practise outside of the labs on site. Yes, yes, other compilers available. But not the ones the "lecturer" wanted to see workings in... Literal paywall to employment.

      Today, open source has caught up enough to provide tolerable alternatives; and indeed "free" versions of commercial products are pretty good (albeit inspire vendor-tie in).

      I totally get why Adobe and others have adopted the subscription model. Even so, I would have balked at a $100/year subscription while living off student loans. I'm not a fan of today tbh, even though no longer an issue for such cost.

  23. vincent himpe

    of course they will offer payment...

    but since the other party can't accept it ... winner winner.

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