back to article Will I inhale coronavirus at this restaurant? There’s an app for that

Chiyoda Ward, an area of central Tokyo, has created an app to help folks ascertain whether or not a restaurant is well ventilated and therefore less likely to lead to a COVID-19 infection. The Ventilation View app relies on the presence of a CO2 sensor that Chiyoda Ward is giving away to businesses. Once that sensor is …

  1. Grunchy Silver badge

    “Killer App”

    Risking your life relying on somebody else’s opinions simply because the opinions were put in app-form. Even better if you only knew how ignorant those app-people are, or what fees they charged to ‘clear’ certain restaurants over others.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: “Killer App”

      There's no "personal opinion". From the article:

      The Ventilation View app relies on the presence of a CO2 sensor that Chiyoda Ward is giving away to businesses.

    2. Phones Sheridan Silver badge

      Re: “Killer App”

      As someone who has experienced a HSE spot check to see if my building ventilation is up to COVID standards, I can tell you it’s very much a real thing and not an opinion.

      This winter is going to be very draughty to meet the airflow criteria we’ve been given.

      More info here, including the use of CO2 monitors to assess ventilation. https://www.hse.gov.uk/coronavirus/equipment-and-machinery/air-conditioning-and-ventilation/assesssment-of-fresh-air.htm

    3. Chris G

      Re: “Killer App”

      "A rating of 1,000 parts per million or lower of carbon dioxide indicates there's adequate ventilation to avoid coming down with coronavirus."

      The above statement is BS, you won't necessarily avoid covid but the potential for coming down with covid is reduced.

      It is stupid, poorly thought out statements like that, that create problems.

      1. Phones Sheridan Silver badge

        Re: “Killer App”

        Unfortunately, it's government approved, and legally enforced BS. So we're all here with the windows open, with the heating on full, working in our coats.

        1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

          Re: “Killer App”

          On the plus side, it might benefit employees. Personally, I've found a lot of offices to be too hot and stuffy. But that's always been a challenge for employers. Some will want it feeling tropical, others, polar. But high CO2 levels cause drowsiness, just ask a slaughterhouse.

    4. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: “Killer App”

      Ph33r 2.0 - NOW with more ANGST!!!

      (we're all SO in for an awakening about this nonsense)

      icon because FACEPALM

  2. herman Silver badge
    Holmes

    For a breath of fresh air

    In New York, if you want a breath of fresh air, then you got to open a window and stick your head inside a building.

  3. Piro Silver badge

    Laudable

    I monitor CO2 and PM 2.5 with two separate devices in my home, the data provides some interesting insight in to how stale (or not) the air is, and the dramatic effect of closing doors and having several people gather in one place. I know it's obvious, but having the actual data to compare against starts to give you a feel for how stuffy things are without even having to check, a bit like you get an idea for temperature or speed.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "a CO2 sensor that Chiyoda Ward is giving away to businesses"

    But are they actually installing it?

    What's to stop them putting it next to a convenient open window

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Ventilation is key

    COVID fatalities would've been a fraction of what they've turned out to be had good ventilation practices been in place in hospitals and care homes.

    We've known this for over 100 years when wards were large and airy and came complete with huge windows that were opened at regular intervals to introduce fresh air. Sadly this doesn't sit well with the green agenda whereby the drive towards increased energy efficiency mandates the use of what are effectively hermetically sealed buildings everywhere.

    1. Charlie Clark Silver badge
      Stop

      Re: Ventilation is key

      None of the reports I read about care homes seemed to think ventilation was the problem: cheap, over-worked labour and poor hygiene. This is also why the mortality rate due to influenza is also so high in care homes.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Ventilation is key

        Care homes are often run by private companies that are naturally very concerned about the bottom line. When you have elderly residents that require room temperatures > 25C to be comfortable, guess what happens to all the windows?

        The severity of COVID is highly dependent on the amount of viral load you're exposed to. We know this because otherwise healthy hospital staff working on COVID wards tend to be more likely to get seriously sick. We also know that improving ventilation decreases the viral load which is why it's virtually impossible to become infected in open air settings.

        1. Jimmy2Cows Silver badge

          Re: virtually impossible to become infected in open air settings

          Citation desperately needed.

          Reduced likelihood does not equal virtually impossible.

          1. Phones Sheridan Silver badge

            Re: virtually impossible to become infected in open air settings

            The BMJ

            The WHO (no the other WHO!)

            The Journal of Hospital Infection

            Pretty much everyone of them says the chances of getting airborne covid in a space is reduced if it's ventilated. People on here are nitpicking on the choice of language used by layperson forum members.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: virtually impossible to become infected in open air settings

            The proportion of infections happening outdoors is likely much lower than 10%; and some of the studies we have reviewed thus far suggest that it is likely less than 1%.

            https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/224/5/925/6291889

        2. Helcat

          Re: Ventilation is key

          "We also know that improving ventilation decreases the viral load which is why it's virtually impossible to become infected in open air settings."

          Erm... not quite: Airflow helps disperse the droplets that contain the virus, but it doesn't reduce the amount of virus in each droplet. Larger droplets fall from the air quite quickly and they have the larger quantity of virus particles. Smaller droplets can persist and get blown around more, but have a smaller amount of the virus.

          The main cause of viral spread is proximity, and outdoors you have more space so people spread out meaning lower risk of exposure. Crowd together, however, and the risk goes up.

          So it's quite possible to catch covid in open air settings especially if you're crowded together, unmasked, shouting or singing or exhaling with gusto.

          1. Version 1.0 Silver badge

            Re: Ventilation is key

            So the Cooks in the restaurants are safe, all they get is toasted viruses and hot air ventilation over the stove ... but the air has been cleaned when they light the stove.

      2. This post has been deleted by its author

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The Covid-Industrial complex at its finest...

  7. Ceyarrecks

    Easier Q to answer,...

    Do they have adequate (read: noticeable) ventilation?

    Ventilation defined as the rate where internal, stagnant, stale, infected air is exchanged with fresh, clean, filtered air from outside.

    oh! I keep forgetting,... none actually CARE about the health of their visitors to invest in that bit of infrastructure,

    just give them your £$¥ and be on your way,...

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