back to article UK and USA seek new world order for cross-border data sharing and privacy

Officials from the USA and UK have signaled an intention to together shape a new world order for data sharing across borders. International Trade Secretary Anne-Marie Trevelyan and Nadine Dorries, Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport, met with US Secretary of Commerce Gina Raimondo to hold discussions on …

  1. Detective Emil
    Meh

    Nice drafting

    Congratulations to the US and the UK on producing a joint statement that mentions none of the following: GDPR, EU, adequacy, Max Schrems …

    1. alain williams Silver badge

      Re: Nice drafting

      PETs and other fine sounding words that will have no real meaning. You can have all the tech that you want - but unless there are strong laws that prevent the abuse of personal data then companies & governments will do as they wish.

      The sort of thing to start with: if a USA company goes bust then the personal data that it has will be sold to the highest bidder regardless of what the company promised when the data was acquired.

      But I expect the UK government to not put in any real effort and will allow our privacy to be abused.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Nice drafting

        I upvoted, but with a small caveat: a US company does not need to go bust to sell its data to the highest bidder. And to the 2nd highest bidder, too. And then to any bidder, really.

      2. Gordon 10 Silver badge

        Re: Nice drafting

        I have a suspicion that their definition of PET's doesn't square with the dictionary definition of a PET.

      3. Zippy´s Sausage Factory
        Meh

        Re: Nice drafting

        The only thing I expect from the UK government is that they do as much as they possibly can to undermine GDPR. And then they'll whine when the EU says that British businesses need to be GDPR compliant to trade in the EU, but there we are.

        We need an "I am so very very tired of this nonsense" icon...

    2. codejunky Silver badge

      Re: Nice drafting

      @Detective Emil

      "Congratulations to the US and the UK on producing a joint statement that mentions none of the following: GDPR, EU, adequacy, Max Schrems …"

      I was happy to see that too, not that I would want to see those words coming from the joint statement between the UK and US.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Nice drafting

      I imagine the only contribution from Nadine Dorries would be an agreement on the supply of Rocky Mountain Oysters (the American prairie kangaroo being such an endangered animal)

    4. Woodnag

      UK will pull out of GDPR

      Once UK has pulled out of GDPR, it will attract FB, Google etc to locate there replacing IRL.

      UK will try to extract from European Court of Human Rights also, but will fail on that one.

      1. oxfordmale78

        Re: UK will pull out of GDPR

        The UK pulling out of GDPR would be massively stupid in economic terms, although I wouldn't put it past the current government to take this step.

        I am currently working for a SaaS company, based in London, selling worldwide. As the UK is still complies with GDPR we can process EU data, however, once the UK pulls out we won't be able to do this, and would need to move jobs to an EU subsidiary.

        It is also unlikely Facebook and Google would move from Ireland. Ireland is covered by GDPR, and it is only the favourable tax conditions plus and English speaking population that attracts these companies to this country in the first place. Prior to COVID I could see the UK becoming a low tax country, however, with the massive COVID debts and an ageing population that is now unrealistic.

        1. Eclectic Man Silver badge

          Re: UK will pull out of GDPR

          From the UK ICO web site:

          "The GDPR is retained in domestic law as the UK GDPR, but the UK has the independence to keep the framework under review. The ‘UK GDPR’ sits alongside an amended version of the DPA 2018."

          (https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/dp-at-the-end-of-the-transition-period/data-protection-and-the-eu-in-detail/the-uk-gdpr/)

          So I think it might require an Act of Parliament to repeal it, or replace it with something else (not that that would put off a government intent on 'liberalising' personal data protection laws).

        2. Woodnag

          Facebook and Google in Ireland

          "... it is only the favourable tax conditions plus and English speaking population that attracts these companies to this country in the first place"

          I suspect that the Irish DPA pretending that GDPR doesn't apply to FB helps a lot in retention.

          https://noyb.eu/en

    5. Nick Ryan Silver badge

      Re: Nice drafting

      The also accidentally left in a couple of spurious words that should not have been there and the intern who typed them has been fired:

      The two nations want a regime that "promotes and advances interoperability between different data protection frameworks, facilitating cross-border data flows while maintaining high standards of data protection and trust."

      1. Eclectic Man Silver badge
        Joke

        Re: Nice drafting

        /begin sarcasm

        Surely it was only "protection" that was accidentally left in? They want our trust. After all, we poor dumb minions, leading our sad, humdrum lives, cannot be expected to understand the complicated ways our data can be used to enhance the lives (and bank balances) of our 'betters', now can we?

        /end sarcasm

    6. DS999 Silver badge

      Why should they?

      The UK wanted out from under the thumb of EU regulation, so in a US to UK negotiation what you end up with is going to look a lot more like the US version of privacy (i.e. "privacy, what's that?") than the EU version.

  2. Chris G Silver badge

    “Of all the democracy-affirming technologies, we’re particularly interested in ones that can help us use personal or sensitive data responsibly,”

    So they need organisations that have experience with this kind of data and who can cooperate, maybe the NSA and GCHQ would fill that bill since they have been doing it for years.

    Though possibly not responibly.

    I find it unlikely that any agreement between the UK and US will fit in with the EU's notions on data sharing.

    1. Nick Ryan Silver badge

      I find it unlikely that it will include any notions regarding data protection or trust.

  3. Howard Sway Silver badge

    democracy-affirming technologies

    “Of all the democracy-affirming technologies, we’re particularly interested in ones that can help us use personal or sensitive data responsibly,” said Dorries.

    Presumably without the inconvenience of us plebs having much of a say whether or not our personal data gets used or not if there's money to be made from it. There's no such thing as a "democracy-affirming technology". Just whether or not technology is used in a democratic way, including whether people have a say in how data is collected and used. The tech can't help you be responsible, you have to have a sense of responsibility and decency yourself. And the want-to-play-fast-and-loose-with-personal-data-for-profit attitude of our government is just about the opposite of that, so once again we're trying to lead a world that doesn't seem all that interested in following us.

  4. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    If you run a UK business that depends on sharing PII with the EU - tough.

    1. Joe W Silver badge

      Yeah, but who does that? I mean, none of those banks etc. contributes in any meaningful way to the UK GDP, right? And it is not like the writing was on the wall for an action like this. And any agreement facilitating data sharing with the US will have no influence on that - especially in the light of https://www.theregister.com/2021/12/08/germany_cookie_service/ there is no reason for concern whatsoever...

  5. Pseu Donyme

    The worst offenders come from the US ...

    ... because there has been no data protection legislation worth mentioning and so no impediment to their business model - essentially privacy violation for profit. Hence, what would really be needed would be proper data protection legislation (akin to the GDPR) on the federal level, and crucially, its vigorous enforcement (which has left quite a bit to be desired in the EU so far). I'm actually somewhat hopeful about this as Big Tech seems to have attracted the ire of just about everyone, including the current US administration and their political opposition.

    1. Cederic Silver badge

      Re: The worst offenders come from the US ...

      Aren't there now a range of data protection/privacy laws in California?

      1. Androgynous Cow Herd

        Re: The worst offenders come from the US ...

        on the books is not the same thing as enforced...

    2. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

      Re: The worst offenders come from the US ...

      I'm actually somewhat hopeful about this as Big Tech seems to have attracted the ire of just about everyone, including the current US administration and their political opposition. .... Pseu Donyme

      You might like to realise that hope is not a vain expectation, Pseu Donyme, as Big Tech effectively morphs into a highly proactive, relatively anonymous and practically invisible and almightily autonomous unofficial rotten government opposition in direct command and absolute control of all future ethereal communication platforms with audiovisual bands of telepathic instruction for universal education and entertainment of emerging intelligence in primitive planetary species/novel heavenly bodies surrounded and confused by thoughts engaging with enigmatic diabolic dilemmas awarding and rewarding diligent and venerable souls with attractive and addictive temptations to please and sate.

      Indeed, in deed you may like to conclude the morph is complete and IT is under Remote Virtual AI Command and a NEUKlearer CyberIntelAIgent Control.

      And if one accepts that as so, what requests would you have of IT so that IT and AI can ponder on the wisdom of the delivery and fulfillment of your personal wishes ...... for those are the sorts of services available for Futures and Hedges and Derivative Market IPOs.

      I Kid U Not.... for the Greater IntelAIgent Game is already a Long Time Experienced in the Running of HyperRadioProACTive Quantum Communication Fields of Work, REST and Play with AIMaster Pilots and Non Commissioned Veteran IT Officers alike leading the Ways in the Frays and Destroying all Failed and Failing Edifices which may Seek to Rise Up before them ...... in Order that Future Generations of Timely Space Travellers Greatly Benefit from the Fundamentally Radical Changes Always Currently Needed and Presently Afoot and Afleet of Foot in the Vanguards of Progress.

      And as strange as it seems, many folk will be terrified of that, and there will even be a few lost and misguided/perverted and subverted/arrogantly corrupt and basically ignorant souls who would pronounce and announce and anoint it as akin to acts of terror too and in so doing confirm the primitive failed nature of their present disposition.

      And Big Tech is Blessed with the Stealth of being a Vast Broad Church of Many Roomed Mansions where Succour and Support Abound in the Safe Harbours of Secure Havens.

      1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

        Re: The worst offenders come from the UKUSA channeling their Inner Yakuza... ????‽ !!!!!

        And here is some proof of a few elements of the above which be a constant and consistent worry for government wonks and supplied by the BBC ......... 'Cyber attack war games' to be staged by UK and US

        Only 100 cybercrime brains worldwide says Europol boss ...... although whether you believe anything the BBC share as a fact is in reality much more in support of a relative fiction is that which is part of the presentation problem dilemma to consider.

  6. Warm Braw Silver badge

    The challenges associated with working across jurisdictions

    Translation: "if only countries would stop taking control of their borders"

  7. heyrick Silver badge

    while maintaining high standards of data protection and trust

    It's utterly astonishing that anybody on the left side of the ocean can such a thing with a straight face.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: while maintaining high standards of data protection and trust

      Oh, but they are perfectly serious: data being owned by companies there, it is very much protected against the people it refers to, who have no right whatsoever to control their own personal information.

    2. Eclectic Man Silver badge
      Joke

      Re: while maintaining high standards of data protection and trust

      heyrick: "It's utterly astonishing that anybody on the left side of the ocean can such a thing with a straight face."

      'Botox'

      1. heyrick Silver badge
        Happy

        'Botox'

        My favourite comment of the week, right there.

  8. Aristotles slow and dimwitted horse Silver badge

    Did conversations go like this?

    UK Gov : We want us to share data responsibly to make us look like we know what we're doing.

    USA : We want all your data.

    UK Gov : Ok, can we have something nice in return?

    USA : No.

    UK Gov : Ok, that's lovely then. When can we sign?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Did conversations go like this?

      well, you can't complain about the UK (gov) taking no stand (or: token, feeble, toothless, pseudo-stand). After all, once we were kicked out by the EU, we have absolutely no bargaining power left, right?

      1. mickaroo

        Re: Did conversations go like this?

        If I remember correctly...

        We weren't kicked out of the EU. We dragged ourselves out, kicking and screaming...

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Did conversations go like this?

          oh dear, I must work harder on my sarky mode, says Boxer.

  9. Wolfclaw

    and once all signed up, EU cuts all data links to UK, due Barmy Boris handing it over to US of A$$ via the back door.

    1. Woodnag

      Yup

      I trust the UK will enjoy its US hormone beef, chlorine washed chicken plus the bonus of Palantir running the sales of UK medical records...

  10. m-k

    shape a new world order for data sharing across borders

    as a meanigless pleb I would MUCH RATHER there was a free-trade agreement across borders than... this. The amount of hassle to send a simple (...) parcel to our friends in the EU is insane. Oh, and you can't send them chocolate either. Or perfume (Evil, evil eu ;) Well, brexit means...

  11. stiine Silver badge
    Facepalm

    " that can help us use "

    Use?

    I think that's the wrong word and therefore you bastards have gone into this with the wrong idea.

  12. Potemkine! Silver badge

    All of your data are belong to US

    That was easy, wasn't it?

  13. WageSlave5678

    Wave bye-bye to our Health Data then

    This is a precursor to The Johnson et al. selling the UK's NHS data as part of the break-up and selling off of the NHS itself.

    It's a goldmine to US Healthcare providers, and we're already selling data like crazy, but within the current boundaries.

    It's clear this is yet again removing consumer/patient protection in the interests of big business.

    Shame on the UK Govt.

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