back to article There's something to be said for delayed gratification when Windows 11 is this full of bugs

An update to the Insiders version of Windows 11 includes a massive list of bug fixes, many of them serious, showing the wisdom of holding back on an early upgrade from Windows 10. Windows 11 was released on 5 October but has proved a problematic upgrade due to onerous system requirements and certain user interface decisions, …

  1. nematoad Silver badge
    FAIL

    A fan?

    "the Start menu refuses to appear when summoned...the solution is to open Task Manager, then kill and restart the Explorer process, which is not too painful though hardly intuitive."

    It seems that some people are easily pleased.

    1. J. Cook Silver badge

      Re: A fan?

      Yep, that's the normal fix when Explorer decides to take a long walk off a short pier, or branches to Fishkill, like when it's trying to connect to a network share that's suddenly stopped, or trying to open a local drive that's decided to be SO local that it won't talk to even the hardware it's installed in...

      Can we get confirmation that moving a network mounted folder from A to B still takes an eternity when the folder in question has over, say, 10,000 child objects in it?

    2. Binraider Silver badge

      Re: A fan?

      A bug I remember distinctly having to deal with right back to 95.

      Same symptoms and user action at least, if not same root cause.

  2. DJV Silver badge
    Facepalm

    We fixed an issue...

    "we fixed an issue that kept putting the words 'we fixed an issue' at the beginning of all our bug fix reports."

    "we fixed an issue that meant the fix that was supposed to prevent putting the words 'we fixed an issue' at the beginning of all our bug fix reports really worked this time."

    "we fixed an issue that meant the fix that was supposed to really work this time to fix the problem of putting the words 'we fixed an issue' at the beginning of all our bug fix reports did actually work this time even though it didn't last time."

    "we fixed an issue ... oh fuck it, it's pub o'clock - just install Linux instead!"

    1. Joe W Silver badge
      Linux

      Re: We fixed an issue...

      My siter once was bitten by a moose penguin?

    2. Chris G Silver badge

      Re: We fixed an issue...

      " We fixed an issue that meant we had to keep fixing things that aren't broken."

      Is what I would really like to hear, one OS that works reliably and only has updates to keep up with advances in work practice.

      I also want a flying car, a robobutler and a cold fusion plant for my workshop.

      1. Version 1.0 Silver badge

        Re: We fixed an issue...

        "one OS that works reliably and only has updates to keep up with advances in work practice." - that was the Digital Equipment RSX11-M ... remember those days when you just loaded an operating system update with no need to reboot.

        1. Duncan Macdonald Silver badge

          Re: We fixed an issue...

          Agreed - the only RSX-11M crashes that I ever had were caused by hardware faults (or an idiot disconnecting the power lead!). VAX clusters were also robust - one system that I looked after kept going after an idiot pulled the lead from the star coupler that resulted in one computer having loss of local access to all disks. VMS noted that the other member of the cluster still had access and rerouted all disk access over the Ethernet to the other member. Apart from a slight slowdown there was no impact on the application software either when the fault occurred or when the lead was plugged back in restoring the normal access path.

          The NT kernel in Windows still shows many influences from VMS (not surprising as David Cutler was responsible for RSX-11M, VMS and Windows NT).

  3. Swordfish1

    Not wasting my time on Windows 11 - the update AFAIC, can wait for at least another year. After being burned, when windows 10 surfaced - I've learned one lesson - never ever update windows, until, it actually works. Not being used as cannon fodder anymore MS.

    1. J. Cook Silver badge

      Well... Yes?

      I mean, my old advice of "wait until three months after the first service pack is dropped before upgrading a stable production environment" still sort of plays... I think.

      1. phuzz Silver badge

        The trouble is, we don't get 'Service Packs' any more, although we do get a version 'number' like 21H1, maybe Win11 22H1 will be usable?.

        Windows Update offered me Win11 today, but I think I'll wait another few months...

    2. EarthDog

      There's a difference between leading edge and bleeding edge. My time limit is usually close to a year.

      1. eldakka Silver badge
        Coat

        > There's a difference between leading edge and bleeding edge.

        One involves a lot of blood from the user.

    3. Screwed

      I run two Windows machines - both currently on 10.

      Thankfully, one cannot run 11 (the other could) and I really get tired using two different versions at the same time. Hence, Microsoft have made it quite clear I need to remain on 10. Indefinitely.

      Then permanently wander off to MacOS and/or a flavour of Linux. (Already have an M1 Mac mini and a Linux box. So neither is unfamiliar.)

      Ironically, I do have 11 running - in Parallels under MacOS. But will probably scrap that when my trial comes to an end. The only way I would keep it is if Microsoft offer an ARM licence for 11.

      1. Blitterbug
        Meh

        Linux is nice 'n all, but...

        ...not for the punters. My business is supporting home & businesses who are already on the Win platform, and by and large, it's a fine experience. If Linux ran the stuff most people wanted, I'd almost be tempted, given MS's shenanigans, but we're not there yet.

  4. RuffianXion

    Windows Update makes me happy

    Whenever I've had a bad day I like to open Windows Update just so I can read, "This PC doesn't currently meet the minimum system requirements to run Windows 11".

    It never fails to improve my mood.

    1. Youngone Silver badge

      Re: Windows Update makes me happy

      Me too. My desktop machine has a quad-core processor running at 2.8 GHZ and 16 GB of RAM but apparently Microsoft are saving me from something because it is not good enough.

    2. AW-S

      Re: Windows Update makes me happy

      I am rather worried tonight.

      One of our systems has advised it can be upgraded to W11.

      I am going to wake up tomorrow and find it's too late to prevent this from happening.

      1. ADRM
        Stop

        Re: Windows Update makes me happy

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_s50gEvG7g

        This video from Brian of Britech tells you how to prevent Windows 11 overwriting your install of 10. I have done it to my machine.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Windows Update makes me happy

      I look at "This PC doesn't currently meet the minimum system requirements to run Windows 11". as another blatant ADVERT in Windows 10, in the same way "Get Windows 10" was, and ask why the world's Competition and Markets authorities, aren't clamping down on this type of advertising?

      It's market abuse, plain and simple. A prime place in the near monopolistic desktop OS Windows product that can't be bought by any outside party, that they use to advert their new wares.

      Google are the same, they have an advert on the search page today, prime spot below the search box for YouTube 'shorts'. aka TikTok videos. Yet, TikTok (as an example) can't advertise in that spot.

      1. phuzz Silver badge

        Re: Windows Update makes me happy

        How's this different from Ubuntu telling you that you can upgrade in the motd?

    4. Bruce Ordway

      Re: Windows Update makes me happy

      >> useful improvements over its predecessor are hard to identify

      I found this statement pretty uplifting too.

      1. Yet Another Hierachial Anonynmous Coward

        Re: Windows Update makes me happy

        I think an additional "s" on the end of predecessor is required.

  5. Nameless Dread

    Some things never change

    ... The solution is to open Task Manager, then kill and restart the Explorer process, which is not too painful though hardly intuitive.

    Sounds like the bastard son of 'Stop it then Restart it' (of beloved memory).

    1. Simian Surprise
      Unhappy

      Re: Some things never change

      "of ... memory"?

      Lucky you!

  6. cb7

    The fact that something as fundamental as the Start Menu or the settings screen can so easily go AWOL on so many machines does nothing to instill any confidence as to the quality of the rest of the OS, even though the kernel itself and most other things are actually quite robust now.

    I continue to detest software that doesn't put up meaningful error messages for the end user when it runs out of options to make something work.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The usual Microsoft mess.

    ^ See title.

  8. TonyJ Silver badge

    Dear Microsoft

    Reinstate your testing team.

    Stop using users as guinea pigs for your half-arsed, rushed, releases.

    Oh and whilst you're at it, can the telemetry.

    It shouldn't be this hard.

    I've stuck W11 on my daily driver just to try and get used to it. For me, personally, it's probably 90% meh and 10% what? Why the hell would you do that? And unfortunately, the 90% that is good news (good as in I don't notice anything), that 10% is utterly jarring to the point it actually interrupts what I am doing/wanting to do.

    When IT pro's have to stop and think about how to do simple tasks, anyone with half a brain would think that there are things that need to be changed.

    I wouldn't (yet) go quite so far as to call this utter crap. Just crap, but come on - most of that 10% is an own goal. Stop it.

    Example of needless change/steps added: I want to give my NIC a static IP address:

    Right-click on my network icon in the notification area. Don't left-click though because that brings up a whole different dialogue

    Click Network and Internet Settings

    Hmm ok - so far looks ok. Seems to have a fair bit of info that could be useful at first glance.

    Click Properties

    Another meh/ok - everything I might need seems to be here.

    IP Assignment Automatic (DHCP) with an Edit button to the right.

    Click Edit

    Now there's a drop-down box.

    Click the drop-down and I can choose manual.

    Oh ffs - now I have to choose to turn on IPV4 and/or IPV6 and under each I can now finally set the static settings.

    But wait... DNS encryption - ok... good... but NOW you need some narrative. What this does won't always be obvious to some users.

    It's just messy. It's a metric shit load of extra steps that shouldn't need to be there.

    Right-click the network icon. Click Network & Internet Settings. Now show me a summary of network cards, let me right-click the one I want and choose properties. Everything else can be put there.

    I realise I am nit picking over things and I am not averse to change at all but it's change for the sake of change that adds no value - it certainly doesn't make things any easier or faster to achieve: quite the opposite.

    1. J. Cook Silver badge

      Re: Dear Microsoft

      Inquiring minds want to know- did they leave the legacy control panel in place like they did with windows 10? because if that's the case, it's the same process as windows7, except that you have to open a run dialog and put in "control" to spawn the windows 7 style control panel...

      1. TonyJ Silver badge

        Re: Dear Microsoft

        @J. Cook

        Just had a quick check and indeed they have.

        1. J. Cook Silver badge

          Re: Dear Microsoft

          Oh, good. that's actually a useful work around, which means it'll get removed in the next biyearly update.

    2. ITMA Bronze badge
      WTF?

      Re: Dear Microsoft

      "Dear Microsoft

      Reinstate your testing team."

      Erm.... We ARE the testing team.....

      And the scary bit is Microsoft seems to think there is nothing wrong with that....

  9. FrenchFries!

    DevOps in action

    Yep.

  10. LDS Silver badge
    WTF?

    Is it normal that when I try to download the Server 2019 patch it does it using HTTP only???

    No HTTPS???

    1. Ken Hagan Gold badge

      Re: Is it normal that when I try to download the Server 2019 patch it does it using HTTP only???

      Http is not an unreasonable choice for delivering content that is both digitally signed and the same for everyone.

      1. LDS Silver badge

        Re: Is it normal that when I try to download the Server 2019 patch it does it using HTTP only???

        Just you can intercept the connection and deliver something with the same name, and once users executes it and understand it was not what they thought they downloaded may be too late....

        1. Richard 12 Silver badge
          Angel

          Re: Is it normal that when I try to download the Server 2019 patch it does it using HTTP only???

          Or you know, download the signatures via a secure channel and use that to confirm it wasn't tampered with.

          It's not difficult.

          Quite a few things do that. The main reason being that it means proxies can cache it, torrent-style protocols can distribute it, local dedicated caching can be set up (WSUS) and you can even use sneakernet to get the update onto machines that don't have much bandwidth.

          This means offices can continue working when every machine starts updating itself, as it only gets downloaded from "outside" once, instead of utterly saturating the block's bandwidth so nobody gets to do any work for a couple of days.

  11. Diodelogic

    Well...

    I've been running Windows 11 for about two weeks now, and so far the only real problem I've had was one of my own making--I totally hosed the system drive on my computer and, via a MAJOR brain fart, failed to realize what I had done. Got that fixed and since then things have been more-or-less okay.

    I can't say that I really notice all that much difference from Windows 10 except that some applications (especially my Firefox browser) are noticeably faster to come-up than before. I downloaded Winaero Tweaker because I knew there would be some things I wouldn't like, such as the two-layer context menu. That is nothing more than an annoyance to me. Most of the tweaks I made were the same ones I used in Windows 10. I haven't run into any serious bugs, but this isn't a work computer on a corporate network, either.

    Having upgraded my hardware to a 3rd gen Ryzen 5, TPM 2.0 was not an issue. Replaced all my spinning rust (except for an 'emergency' external USB drive) with an m.2 NVME system drive and SSD for the rest, the system is about 5-8 times faster--the computer boots to a usable desktop in about 20 seconds from a cold start. I did this while still using Windows 10.

    Overall I guess I'd say that Windows 11 works tolerably well, for me. I wouldn't presume to speak for a corporate environment.

    1. Chz

      Re: Well...

      I'd missed the checkbox to opt for Windows 10 instead of 11 when I bought the Mrs a new Dell (they had a pricing oopsie, and to my great surprise they honoured it). The nicest thing I can say about Win11 is that it hasn't yet pissed my wife off. Win7->10 did. WinXP->7 did. So they must be doing something... if not right, then less wrong.

    2. ITMA Bronze badge

      Re: Well...

      But here is the real question...

      What does W11 do for you that W10 does not?

      When considering things such as "starts much faster", how much of that is W11 and how much is really the hardware upgrades just to meet W11's minimum system requirements?

      1. Diodelogic

        Re: Well...

        ITMA: If you are referring to my post, then I will reiterate that I'd already made the hardware changes while still using Windows 10. I didn't know about Windows 11 until well after the changes were made. I may have unintentionally conflated some conditions to make it appear that Windows 11 was responsible for the massive increase in speed of my computer--mea culpa. What I was trying to say was that even with the new hardware, I still noticed an increase in system speed.

        I did not change the hardware to meet any conditions for Windows 11.

        The only change that I am aware of in Windows that might help with speed is a new memory management system, and, as I said, I do notice an increase in speed. Of course, as always, YMMV.

  12. Rick594

    I'll wait for Windows 12,1 I should have a quantum computer by then

  13. Blackjack Silver badge

    Wow Windows 11 makes Windows 10 look good.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I guess you think that the Windows 11 bugs are much higher quality?

  14. Mike Lewis

    Black screen of death

    > Windows 11 introduced a novelty in the Windows world: a black screen of death.

    That was actually introduced by Windows 7.

    I fixed the neighbours' computer - again - and told them not to move it. Of course they moved it and got a black screen. I found out that Windows, running on that particular hardware, was sensitive about which USB port you used for the mouse.

  15. Sorry that handle is already taken. Silver badge
    WTF?

    Some of the advice blogs (e.g. gHacks) have been absolutely spewing out "how to do/fix XYZ in Windows 11" articles. Every time I see one of these I wonder "isn't reverting to Windows 10 an option?"

  16. Lorribot

    So the really annoy thing is they release an out of band patch you can only get form the Update Catalog and it is 1.6GB as it has all the patches in it that you have already applied and obviously don't need.

    MS really need to stop do this stupidity. Just provide the new patch as as a standalone and FFS fix printing so I can actually patch my Print server already.

    1. Richard 12 Silver badge

      Could be worse

      Seems like macOS updates are always that size of download, regardless of what changes.

      I would really appreciate it if Apple could learn about incremental updates.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Could be worse

        But how would Apple gouge 4x the price for a larger SSD then? (that's built into the arm silicon and degrades from day one, with no way of replacing it. The landfill clock starts ticking as soon as you take the new arm-based MacBooks/iMacs from the box).

        All fool you for buying one of the latest landfill crud macs. I won't be buying another. The trashing of the Updates Page in High Sierra, by pulling the plug on the Update Page CSS formatting servers, said everything about Apple I needed to know. Three months to fix, after a high-profile campaign, just wasn't good enough, by that time, people had replaced their machines, and the devious methods of Apple had done what it needed to, forced people to upgrade.

  17. ecofeco Silver badge

    Oh, about a year should do it

    I've learned over the decades, DECADES, to wait at least a year for MS to fix most, MOST but not all, of the bugs in its new releases.

    What's the old saying? "Only fools rush in..."

    1. ITMA Bronze badge

      Re: Oh, about a year should do it

      The magic words to deploy in business environments when asked about "when can we get W11"? are...

      ROI - Return On Investment.

      What planet are Microsoft on if they think a small business with 70+ machines, all of which are perfectly good capable machines running W10, are going to chuck them all and buy new ones just to run W11.

      Personally, without a bloody good reason not too, I'm going to do what I did with W7. Wait until EOL approaches and we've had maximum value out of the cash we've spent on machines.

      1. ecofeco Silver badge

        Re: Oh, about a year should do it

        I can't wait to retire and never use microshite kit again for the rest of my life.

  18. Blitterbug
    Thumb Down

    Bad for Ryzen

    Had to wipe a customer's new HP Ryzen Win 11 box back to the metal after it started BSoD'd endlessly, even during attempts to factory reset. I have *never* seen this behaviour on any new machine and as a result, I now don't believe the only Ryzen issues are the slowdown that was reported due to off-balanced cores.

    1. ecofeco Silver badge

      Re: Bad for Ryzen

      Missed the early Win 10 rollout did you?

      Epic Bsods.

  19. hup hup hoo

    Up and down

    Microsoft do seem to suffer from big company itis at times.

    They rushed Windows 8 when 7 was going great guns, diverting devs off Windows Mobile at a time it just had a chance to succeed. Result: People hated Windows 8 and Windows Mobile died from neglect (MS owned Skype at the time and didn't even have a native skype client).

    And now they've rushed 11 when nobody needed it. All they had to do was wait until spring - the PC makers would have been happy as it would have been a boost at a lull time of the year.

    Crazy.

    Having said that I quite like it. Though I got on with Win 8.1 (not even i'm sick enough to have managed to like Win 8).

    1. J. Cook Silver badge
      Thumb Up

      Re: Up and down

      8.1 was... something I could actually live with; the 'modern' UI wasn't TOO intrusive on it, there was an actual start button to aim the mouse pointer at, and there were no ads in it, even in the paid version.

    2. ecofeco Silver badge

      Re: Up and down

      At... times? LOL, 20+ years is a LOT of "times".

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