Windows 10 2004 is nearing the end of the road. Time for a Windows 11 upgrade?

As the monthly Patch Tuesday excitement got under way this week, Microsoft issued a reminder that the first Windows of the pandemic, Windows 10 2004, was due for the chop. An upgrade to Windows 11 is in order, unless one is using Surface hardware bought around that time. The impending demise of Windows 10 2004 has been etched …

[Steve Davies 3]

Upgrade? Nah!

At least that is what all my friends who still use Windows are saying. They are ALL sticking with Win 7 until they can move away from the Windows platform entirely.

These are not just normal users but hardcore developers with decades of experience on everything from Mainframes to embedded microcontrollers.

I know from chatter on other forums that these are not alone.

[Mark 85]

Re: Upgrade? Nah!

There's many of us who are still using Win 7. It's stable and not crap shoot on what works and doesn't work. And many of us are still using legacy "buy once, use forever" software instead of bug ridden subscription stuff.

As the articles point out.. Win 11 is still Win 10. Can't hide a pig with a face lift.

I do have a Linux box waiting for one or two more bits of software before I yell "FREEDOM!!!!" and kill the Windows box.

[J27]

Re: Upgrade? Nah!

I honestly don't feel like there is a big difference between using Windows 7, 10 and 11. They all work, more or less, they all run everything I need to run.

[elsergiovolador]

Thin ice

I am just a couple of apps away of fully migrating to Linux.

Unfortunately manufacturers of some of the apps don't yet consider making a build for Linux. But if everyone starts adding pressure...

Microsoft may suddenly find themselves empty handed.

[keith_w]

Re: Thin ice

Until such time as Linux or any other alternative operating system is as easy to use as Windows (and yes, I say that with a bit of tongue in cheek) the hoi polloi of average users (by which I mean people who basically use it for browsing and email) will not be switching. Oh, and it had better come pre-installed. I was thinking that it would be more likely for people to switch to IPads, but I then realized that those who would do that have done that.

[Boris the Cockroach]

Re: Thin ice

I think the 'pre-installed' phrase is the key one among the email/browsing/farcebork only crowd.

But as for ease of use...... installing linux mint from a USB stick was pretty easy.

Boot up with stick in port....

Select install option (full disk or use a bit of it)

Press go

.

.

Log in

And away you go

(i did a win10 install on the same disk first..... and as ever.... restart restart restart restart update restart printer wont talk to win10 update driver install restart)

[Terry 6]

Re: Thin ice

average users (by which I mean people who basically use it for browsing and email)

A strange understanding of "average users". If there's such a thing it's the vast army of office or home-office users who use a PC for actual work. They write documents (probably using WORD, they use simple spreadsheets (possibly as a database - because for everyday simple list management it's all they need- there's sore point here*) They might do some stuff with simple graphics or even page layouts, and then there's PowerPoint.

*Sore point. Once upon a time there were simple flat file data base programmes. Cheap or free and very simple to use, so that you could, for example, create a simple list of a few hundred customers or members, some contact details, maybe their preferred product or their ranking in the darts league or maybe an account number, or when they paid their membership. You could store all you needed and do simple key word searches or sorts. Ideal for a small business or to run a club. They need a relational database like I'd need a pneumatic drill to dig my flower bed. These seem to have vanished. So we use Excel as the next best thing

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: Thin ice

"These seem to have vanished. So we use Excel as the next best thing"

I think you may have swapped cause and effect.

And, of course, all these things are not only possible using FOSS, they're being used daily by "average users" who've been moved over to them by folk hereabouts who got fed up of supporting friends and family on Windows.

[J27]

Re: Thin ice

Microsoft Access is a flat-file database program. It's terrible, but it does exist.

[Fading]

Re: Thin ice

Friends don't let friends use Access.

[Terry 6]

Re: Thin ice

The question is who does use Access.

It's too complicated for the ordinary user in a small office who realises they need to store a small amount of organised data.

And it's not much cop for a pro-level database, as far as I can judge from comments here and experiences elsewhere.

[43300]

Re: Thin ice

A number of niche commercial databases in the land management field used to use Access, distributed with the Runtime module, but nearly all of them have now moved to SQL (free Express version in most cases as the databases are not large). I imagine the same is true in most other fields too.

[Terry 6]

Re: Thin ice

It's far, far more complicated than the average ordinary user who wants to keep a few hundred records with a handful of fields want to learn. So, as I noted, that's why they use Excel. They used to give away simple DB software on magazine covers. Now you can't find them.

(And don't give me 'Nux options. That's just not what most people use unless they are or know a deep down techie.)

[Michael Habel]

Re: Thin ice

The Road to Pleb-ville is paved with corporates... So your employer would need a good reason to ditch M$ Office, and the Windows tie-in, first.

Given how new post-Intel Macs are going. That iPad crack isn't as far off the mark. Honestly though given the incredably short life span of Apples iPad line. What 4 years, before Tim gets bored of it, and thinks you need a new one? this wouldn't be so bad IF you could at least use a supported browser. but, you can not use one because apple cut, everyone off. So I susspect, thats one asspect of it.

On that note. its also why I will be waiting to see what the second, or better third gen, Mac Pro on M1x is going to look like. Before diving in. I't one thing to blow 800$ on an iPad. Its another to do that on a Laptop, Desktop. With a built-in time bomb.

[ecofeco]

Re: Thin ice

I have the same problem. 2 apps I need that are not available for Linux and will not run under Wine.

[Fonant]

Re: Thin ice

If they're not 3D-graphics-intensive they may well work fine under a copy of Windows as a virtual machine. No good for 3D games, though.

I found replacements the few Windows-only Apps I used to use. Joplin is a nice replacement for Evernote, and I've always used LibreOffice here anyway.

[Fonant]

Re: Thin ice

I made the jump about a year ago, to Fedora. I use Virtual Machine Manager to fire up my old Windows copy as a virtual machine when needed (usually to play along with a scammer to waste their time).

The trigger was finding that Win10 had got corrupted somehow, and nothing I could do would get it to boot. Installed Linux, and re-installed Win10 from scratch as another boot option.

My PC still dual-boots into native Windows 10 if needed, but I rarely use that and only ever for playing games that aren't yet ported to Linux.

Since I'm a Linux sysadmin Linux was an obvious choice, and it's lovely having the same tools on my desktop as I have on my servers :)

[Boothy]

Re: Thin ice

Been thinking of doing that myself for a while, just haven't got round to it.

I've done dual and multi boot in the past, but as a gamer, I found I was rarely booting into Linux, as little worked there (a few years ago now).

So the last time I built a new system, (end of 2019, new Ryzen 2 system), I didn't bother putting Linux on.

Steam + Proton seems to be getting better all the time. Plus the new Steam Deck, assuming it's a success, might push more devs to either natively support Linux, or at least make sure their Windows version of a game works well under Proton.

Perhaps it's time to have another go with a Linux game rig (dual booting to my existing Win 10)?

[Anonymous Coward]

I upgraded last night

I quite like it. Simple, clean and once you've added a few decent browsers, eminently enjoyable.

[Version 1.0]

Re: I upgraded last night

The best feature of the "upgrade" is that soon we'll see no more "upgrades" to Windows 10 which means that life will be so much better when you turn the PC on ... everyone will be able to just get things done, not waiting for the "upgrade" to cause new problems.

[DomDF]

Re: I upgraded last night

Wasn't that the claim back when Windows 10 launched?

[ecofeco]

Re: I upgraded last night

Exactly. NEVER trust MS.

[Roland6]

Re: I upgraded last night

>The best feature of the "upgrade" is that soon we'll see no more "upgrades" to Windows 10

Having upgraded to W11, you shouldn't be seeing any "upgrades" to W10, however, you will be seeing plenty of upgrades to W11...

[TopCat62]

Re: I upgraded last night

So you didn't run two monitors with the taskbar docked to the right of one of them then.

[Lucy in the Sky (with Diamonds)]

Top Gear Track

I have recently went to Windows 10, just so I can set times on the Top Gear track in Forza Motorsport 7.

Yes, I am shallow, and I have only ever upgraded an operating system just so I can play a game that really wanted to play.

It was worth it.

Once Linux puts out a game with the Top Gear track on it, or a version of Linux comes out that is compatible with all my Windows and DOS games and applications, I will consider moving to Linux.

[Piro]

"Time for a Windows 11 upgrade?"

I refer you to Betteridge's law of headlines.

[localzuk]

Why upgrade?

Why is it preferable to upgrade to Windows 11 than just do what we've been doing for years, and run the normal update to a later edition of Windows 10?

[Roland6]

Re: Why upgrade?

Probably because if you are still running an "ancient" version of W10, your system probably doesn't satisfy the W11 requirements and so the upgrade will fail and thus cause the average user to visit PCWorld et al. just to be told they need to buy a shiny new system...

[43300]

Re: Why upgrade?

Then find that PC World doesn't have anything in stock!

Certainly on business systems the delivery times are ridiculous at the moment - Dell Latitudes are on a 2-month lead time.

[Boothy]

Re: Why upgrade?

That's what I was thinking, especially with statements like: "Versions 2004, 20H2, and 21H1 share a common core operating system,"

To me, the path of least resistance is generally the better choice.

So if you're on 2004 now, then (assuming staying with Windows) moving to Win 10 20H2 or 21H1 would in almost all cases, be the better choice than switching to Windows 11, as it's likely to have less issues. Especially this early in the life cycle of basically a new(ish) OS, that does seem to have some known performance and compatibility issues atm.

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows 11 Updates are already messing up: 2021-10 Cumulative Update Preview for .NET (KB5006363)

On the 06/11 it installed 2021-10 Cumulative Update Preview for .NET Framework 3.5 and 4.8 for Windows 11 for x64 (KB5006363)

Microsoft re-released this update as 2021-11 Cumulative Update for.NET Framework 3.5 and 4.8 for Windows 11 for x64 (KB5006363) on 08th November 2021 (For Patch Tuesday) (45.2MB File)

The problem is Windows 11 didn't offer to install the re-released update over the preview update on Patch Tuesday, and won't install it manually if you download the file from Windows Catalog, saying that the preview update (KB5006363) is already installed.

If you manually removed the preview update (KB5006363), Windows Update history still shows the preview update installed, but Windows Update does then fetch and install 2021-11 Cumulative Update for.NET Framework 3.5 and 4.8 for Windows 11 for x64 (KB5006363).

So you can conclude from that the Cumulative Update Previews, aren't being replaced with the final version, as they are released, in Windows 11 RTM.

Conclusion: Windows (11) Update is still a bag of clunky rusty old nails and has been for 20+ years. Microsoft, you need to do some basic testing of this product, you have no excuse. Sack the head of marketing and employ a few engineers. This is unacceptable.

[Lucy in the Sky (with Diamonds)]

WSUS

I use a WSUS server at home (and also in my clients' environments) to shield the computers from bad updates.

Anything with the word "preview" is a no-no, but I feel no guilt on letting others suffer from it, from which I learn lessons.

Generally, I wait two weeks after patch Tuesday, and approve those that do not create negative headlines.

For most of my clients, the primary objective is to not generate newspaper stories from updates that could have went better.

If I do my job well, nobody should know that I actually exist…

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: WSUS

It was more to make the point that we are only on the second release of updates on Windows 11, since release to RTM and updates aren't working as they should, using Windows Update, rather than WSUS.

I just can't believe Microsoft has all the resources it does, yet no one checks this stuff. Shockingly bad. There is no choice to opt out of the previews, and this machine isn't part of the insider programme.

Having installed Windows 11, I'm yet to find a reason it was worth installing Windows 11.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: WSUS

The ONLY feature of Windows 11 I find attractive is that it will be supported beyond 2025.

This box won't get upgraded, though. It will eventually be supplanted by a native-Ubuntu box running my VMs, where I already do all my work. I just need this one Windblows box for video gaming.

Unlike some people, there isn't a single thing I can think of that I run other than games that isn't available under Linux - primarily because most of my "software" is delivered as SaaS nowadays, not as desktop applications.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Windows 11 Update, the usual clunky bag of rusty old nails.

Update: Looks like this .NET KB5006363 update is now causing issues with Citrix software too:

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/answers/questions/626306/problems-after-installing-2021-11-cumulative-updat.html

I suppose anyone with hardware that MIcrosoft has decided 'artifically' isn't compatible, will be glad to here that users of Windows 11 are getting the same old, same old, regards Windows update. Nothing fcuking changes.

We're not even at seven updates since Windows 11 was released to RTM, and there are already problems with the update process:

KB5005537 KB5006674 KB5006746 KB5008295 KB5007215 KB5006363

[Robert Carnegie]

Windows 10 maintained till 2025?

But is that free maintenance for all users until 2025? Old system support has come expensive before now.