back to article Bullseye! Debian-based Raspberry Pi OS scores an update with 'less closed-source proprietary code'

It's been a while, but the Raspberry Pi OS has had a major version bump, taking this flavour of Linux for the diminutive computer to Debian Bullseye. Debian Bullseye debuted in August, and the Raspberry Pi team admitted that getting its eponymous operating system updated had "taken a bit longer than we'd hoped". Bullseye will …

  1. Tom 7 Silver badge

    "making things feel a bit more modern"

    for someone elses value of modern.

    1. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Thumb Up

      Re: "making things feel a bit more modern"

      massive upvote for criticizing the obvious mis-use of the term "modern"

      Also worth pointing out: what about older RPis with less than 1G of RAM ???

      Apparently someone isn't looking at the BIG picture and existing install base.

  2. Dave 15 Silver badge

    Why?

    Why would someone want a more modern hi that requires the duplication of the screen pixels stealing a heap of your available memory. People today are just to prolificate with my memory and processor, I want efficiency especially from the os

    1. thames

      Re: Why?

      They are taking a very pragmatic approach to all this. They're using a lot of third party software, so if they want to continue doing that they need to follow the upstream projects, albeit some ways behind. The alternative is to do the maintenance themselves, which would be a lot of work.

      1. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Devil

        Re: Why?

        there is nothing wrong with forking OLDER versions (i.e. without the bloat) and just maintaining them separately...

  3. Lon24 Silver badge

    Back to the Past

    Went to download to discover it is still armhf ie 32 bit. It's good that Debian Bullseye continues to support legacy 32 bit hardware - but RPi3 onwards can support 64 bit as the excellent 64 bit Buster beta demonstrated.

    If upgrade from Buster is not recommended I don't understand why release this when upgrade from Bullseye 32 bit to a future 64 bit is for the birds.

    Those of us who use 32 bit Debian Bullseye are painfully aware that an increasing part of the userland are no longer providing 32 biit upgrades. 64 bit is not the future it is now. This is legacy release. Most people would do well to wait for an arm64 release rather than go for possibly two complete wipe & installs. Or try the unofficial Debian arm64 edition.

    1. bob, mon!

      Re: Back to the Past

      > Or try the unofficial Debian arm64 edition.

      I'm sticking with 64-bit RaspiOS beta for now. I have to maintain both RPi3 and RPi4 with their differing boot methods, so bringing the Debian release up looks daunting. Or maybe I'm lazy.

      1. thames

        Re: Back to the Past

        I have been using Ubuntu Server on the Pi 4, and it seems to work pretty good. I haven't discovered any problems with it so far. It's 64 bit.

        Both Raspberry Pi OS and Ubuntu make extensive use of sudo in managing them, so they're more similar to each other than to original Debian in that sense.

        I have benchmarked software that I've written on both the Pi3 and Pi4 in both 32 and 64 bit modes. The Python and C programs were significantly faster just by switching from 32 to 64 bit without any other changes. I have a pretty comprehensive set of benchmarks so I don't have any doubts about the difference.

        As I understand it the thing that has been holding Raspberry Pi OS back from switching to 64 bit is their desire to maintain backwards compatibility with the Pi 2, which won't support 64 bit mode. They would have to put out a separate version of the distro for that. It's a choice though that I think they will eventually be pushed into.

    2. Old Used Programmer Silver badge

      Re: Back to the Past

      They recommend against and upgrade in place. That's something they've always done with major releases, so nothing actually new on that front.

      If you read the announcement blog post, they have a link to instructions on how to update in place, should you wish to go that route. They just won't provide support if you run into trouble doing it.

      1. James Hughes 1

        Re: Back to the Past

        At the same time the 32bit version was released, we also released a new beta of the 64bit version to match it. You should try it out. The more people who test it the better.

        1. dharmOS

          Re: another closed system with no upgrade path

          I don't use Mathematica or Minecraft Pi, but anyway of getting VNC Server to run on the 64 bit version of the Rasp Pi OS (the killer app I need for 64-bit space).

      2. Ian 55

        Re: Back to the Past

        Managing to break Debian's normally rock-solid ability to update from one version to another is quite an achievement - shared by Linux Mint - but not a good one.

        On various bits of kit, I have successfully done upgrades from Debian Woody onwards, so nearly 20 years, and the only problem has been catching up with the configuration changes made in upstream projects each time.

  4. thames

    Installed it

    I've installed it on my Raspberry Pi 3. Since I've only got 1 GB of RAM I didn't see the new visual effects. I normally run it as a headless server over SSH anyway, so that doesn't matter.

    Overall, it seems fine with no surprises. It has some newer versions of software (e.g. Python 3.9 as opposed to 3.7).

    I did the recommended full re-install. I used the SD card imager which they provide, so that was fairly painless.

    I just re-installed by own software projects and they ran fine without problems.

    I don't see any reason for anyone to not go ahead with the upgrade.

    1. werdsmith Silver badge

      Re: Installed it

      Not only is it python 3.9.3, it’s also the default now.

      I had spent the weekend rebuilding one pi server with 64 bit buster. This drops on Monday, so I’m doing it all again today.

  5. Manolo
    Joke

    Drawing in the case?

    "The GTK+ toolkit is used to draw standard user interface components in the case of the Pi,"

    I thought it would draw on the screen.

  6. ColonelDare
    Thumb Up

    Just wondering...

    "This means less closed-source proprietary code...,"

    With their 10th anniversary not far off, I wonder [hope] whether the liberation from none copyright code might open the way to launching some RISC-V based open source hardware? With an onboard RP2040 Pico to add to the fun, maybe?

    Oh - and we'll need the Python bindings for libcamera which are still in the works I believe.

    Thank you RPi Team and roll on February 2022! :-)

  7. rerdavies

    I'm not sure Raspbian 64-bit is a big priority given that Ubuntu 21.04 64-bit runs exceedingly well on Raspberry Pi 4, and runs with a newer 5.15 kernel that now has mainline Raspberry Pi 4 support.

    1. James Hughes 1

      Now that the huge amount of work needed to get Bullseye out is done, we can spend a bit MORE time on the 64bit version. Fortunately a lot of the work done for Bullseye is directly applicable to a 64bit version (libcamera, V472, KMS etc). Try out the latest beta released the same day. Bound to be some issues, so the more testing done the better.

  8. drankinatty

    "GTK+ 3 had removed some features they'd been depending on"

    That is a bit of an understatement "some" (or "a lot") is relative I guess. The tabbed dialogs being a bit "jarring" is more accurate. There are many significant Gtk changes that will impact the Pi, especially if you have limited screen real estate. Gtk+3 removed the toolbar widget as well as the menu widget. (which to a large degree is why you will see menu entries have grown taller and many applications can no longer fit the same number of icons in the new object used as a toolbar without the bar ellipsizing with spillover in '...' menu to the side).

    Few apps properly apply the new gtk.toolbar class style which mitigates the toolbar icon appearance somewhat with set_style() -- but there is little motivation to do so since much of the gtk.toolbar class style is deprecated now like to be removed in Gtk4 (no + in the name anymore). The Gtk change is one of the reasons the direct Buster->Bullseye update for Desktop installs isn't recommended (though there are more reports of success than failure) And with a Pi 3+b, I'm not anxious to have my nicely themed desktop revert to one with jarring square corner tabbed dialogs...

  9. Steve Graham

    low-budget

    If you want fancy effects with openbox (shadows, rounded corners, translucent windows: that sort of thing), you can run a compositor called "compton". On my system, it has just 42Mb of memory allocated (at least, that's what pmem says). It's in the Debian/Devuan repos.

  10. aqk
    Go

    Well, Chromium on Bullseye wouldn't work 'out of the box' on my Rasp 4B, so I had to install Firefox.

    Mind you the monitor was a 50" TCL 4K TV. Perhaps someday I'll try Chromium with a cute little 24" 1092x768 monitor.

    Doesn't matter much- I mostly run it headless as a storage server and web-server anyhow. But NOT with 48 TB!

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Biting the hand that feeds IT © 1998–2022