back to article YouTube expands vaccine misinfo crackdown, nukes anti-vax channels for good

YouTube says it will remove anti-vaccine videos from its service and has already blocked the channels operated by several widely viewed anti-vaccine advocates. "Vaccines in particular have been a source of fierce debate over the years, despite consistent guidance from health authorities about their effectiveness," the super- …

  1. redpawn Silver badge

    I've been vaccinated

    and now I attract spam, beware!

    1. Jamesit

      Re: I've been vaccinated

      Me too, 2x mRNA no side effects either.

    2. JDPower666

      Re: I've been vaccinated

      Me too. The tinned variety. The vaccine is clearly magnetic.

  2. jake Silver badge

    About fucking time.

    'nuff said.

    1. stiine Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: About fucking time.

      What the hell am I supposed to watch for amusement now?

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge

        Re: About fucking time.

        Flat earthers?

        1. Kevin Johnston

          Re: About fucking time.

          Apparently they have followers all round the globe

        2. stiine Silver badge

          Re: About fucking time.

          They aren't very entertaining to me. well... except that one flat-earth rocketeer.

      2. jake Silver badge

        Re: About fucking time.

        The few remaining fanatic Trump supporters?

        1. My other car WAS an IAV Stryker Silver badge

          Re: About fucking time.

          Sadly, more (much more) than a "few".

  3. Howard Sway Silver badge

    video giant said that content making false claims that approved vaccines are dangerous

    so, are they going to return all the money they made from knowingly disseminating this garbage that kills people for many months to something like a fund for vaccinating people in less wealthy countries who would dearly love to get the vaccine?

    Why's it taken nearly a year of all that lovely ad revenue to realise the harm it was causing?

    1. jake Silver badge

      Re: video giant said that content making false claims that approved vaccines are dangerous

      Of course alphagoo are not going to return it ... the advertisers got their money's worth, didn't they? In alphagoo's mind, they earned it fair and square ... it's the advertisers that paid for all the bullshit leading idiots down the garden path, so how can it be alphagoo's fault?.

      They are money-grubbing capitalist pigs, answering to no one but the shareholders, and they can do what they like because nobody has done the one thing that'll stop them.

      That would be leaving the entire system behind en-mass, if you were wondering. Won't happen, though, because people as a herd flock like sheep, with roughly the same IQ.

      Next question?

  4. VicMortimer
    Flame

    And I just spent 15 minutes reporting Mercola's Twitter posts for vaccine misinformation.

    Feel free to do the same. These fools are killing people.

    1. Jamesit

      In my opinion Mercola is a quack and should lose his license if he has one. Is he a doctor> Wikipedia doesn't make it clear if he is or not,

      1. katrinab Silver badge
        Alert

        Most of these "doctors" are Doctors of Philosophy (phd), not Doctors of Medicine (md).

  5. Mobster

    Now Texas will sue YouTube under their new silly law demanding social media companies allow all content. This from the same republican legislators who always bark about free market, no regulation of business yada yada yada.

    1. DevOpsTimothyC Bronze badge

      Now Texas will sue YouTube under their new silly law demanding social media companies allow all content.

      While I would have preferred that Texas taken the same position as Australia, I'm probably the odd one out here but I completely support both Australia & Texas's decisions to remove the ability for these companies to have their cake and eat it too.

      Either a company is a common carrier who cannot and NEVER filters content, OR they have a duty to filter their content and run legal risks for failing in their duty to filter. They should not be allowed their current ability of claiming common carrier protections while still filtering content.

  6. This post has been deleted by a moderator

    1. jake Silver badge

      Re: Thanks to the Vaxxed

      Odd. Last time I checked it was the folks without the jab who were dying in droves.

      I realize that logic isn't exactly the strong point of people like you, but perhaps look at the graphs again? The evidence is quite clear ... unless you are a complete fucking idiot, of course. In which case, say hi to Darwin for me.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Thanks to the Vaxxed

        Hey, no COVID cases here in Darwin at the moment, so stay away please. We do unfortunately already have our own bunch of anti vax imbeciles and don't need any more.

      2. DS999 Silver badge
        Facepalm

        Re: Thanks to the Vaxxed

        No doubt he will claim the information from official sources you are referring to is fake, and he's getting the real story about how it is actually all the vaccinated people and not unvaccinated dying in hospitals from conspiracy theorists brave truth tellers on Facebook!

        1. Joe W Silver badge

          Re: Thanks to the Vaxxed

          I don't care if people get vaccinated.

          I care if those who do not get vaccinated go out in public especially in crowds (look at the city centres, they are busy again, like before CoViD), are working in kindergardens or schools where kids cannot yet get the shot. I know a few people who suffer from long CoViD, and that is no fun, like at all. Not getting vaccinated as a teacher should count as attempted manslaughter...

          I don't care if you don't want to get vaccinated and then kick the bucket - as long as you don't take anybody else with you, or cost the health insurance money. Or take the hospital bed of somebody else, who got the shot.

          And to the crowd hissing and booing about "being forced to get the vaccination": Yeah, we should totally do that. Worked with smallpox. Victory of science and all that.

          1. stiine Silver badge

            Re: Thanks to the Vaxxed

            If you were vaccinated against smallpox, what were the chances you'd contract smallpox? Apparently, getting vaccinated against Covid19 doesn't actually prevent you from catching, carrying, or spreading, Covid19, it only probably prevents covid from killing you as fast.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Thanks to the Vaxxed

              A vaccine preps your immune system to fight a disease. When you encounter an infection, your body already knows how to fight it. This can prevent you getting ill and dying. It can also prevent the disease taking hold and becoming infectious.

              The primary function of the current COVID vaccines was to prevent people dying. It wasn't known if they would prevent people being infectious. Unfortunately, while it doesn't look like they can completely prevent this, they will reduce the viral load. This will limit how infectious you are and for how long. A large study of healthcare workers in Scotland showed that an unvaccinated person living with a vaccinated healthcare worker was at least 30% less likely to be infected than one who lived with an unvaccinated healthcare worker.

              So while getting vaccinated won't eliminate the chances that you can pass on the virus it will make it less likely, as well as making it much less likely you will end up in hospital or mortuary. This is why mask wearing is still advised. If you do both, you are less likely to infect other people than if you just do one.

              Possibly future iterations of the vaccines will be more effective at preventing infection. Until then, I will gladly take the current ones to make it much less likely I will get seriously ill.

              1. Martin an gof Silver badge

                Re: Thanks to the Vaxxed

                A vaccine preps your immune system to fight a disease. When you encounter an infection, your body already knows how to fight it.

                Obligatory xkcd

                M.

                1. David 132 Silver badge
                  Thumb Up

                  Re: Thanks to the Vaxxed

                  I feel that at this point, there’s an obligatory XKCD for any conceivable situation that might arise anywhere in the multiverse.

                  What a time to be alive.

                  1. Gene Cash Silver badge
                    Pint

                    Re: Thanks to the Vaxxed

                    Randall Munroe is an absolute national treasure. A one-of-a-kind bloke. And I'd buy him all the beers to hear all the stories.

                    1. A. Coatsworth
                      Happy

                      Re: Thanks to the Vaxxed

                      Just national treasure?

                      I'd propose to include him in the UNESCO World Heritage list!

                    2. Martin an gof Silver badge

                      Re: Thanks to the Vaxxed

                      And I'd buy him all the beers to hear all the stories.

                      Well, Christmas is coming and quite a lot of the stories are in the books he's written so maybe you don't need to think too hard about what to get the nephew or the god-daughter this year :-)

                      M.

            2. Paul Crawford Silver badge

              Re: Thanks to the Vaxxed

              People still die in car crashes, so is the wearing of seat belts pointless?

              Or maybe a factor in the lower death rates?

              1. John Robson Silver badge

                Re: Thanks to the Vaxxed

                Bad example - it's not like the introduction of seatbelts actually caused a measurable drop in death rates.

                Their efficacy as protection for those wearing them in the event of an incident is not in doubt, the sense of security they provide is suspected to make drivers far less risk averse, and that disproportionately affects the vulnerable road users - including pedestrians, who are exposed to higher risk, but without any mitigation. And all drivers are pedestrians at some point in their journey.

                1. Gene Cash Silver badge

                  Re: Thanks to the Vaxxed

                  Seatbelts were viewed as "things that would kill ya" and I know a ton of people that wouldn't wear them. So we got the annoying dingle-noise, then we got airbags.

                  Airbags were actually mandated because it was shown that they protected more of the population because the use wasn't voluntary.

                2. James Wilson

                  Re: Thanks to the Vaxxed

                  Could you possibly add a link to show that? My understanding was that seat belts saved more lives than any other safety device. Certainly the latest stats I could see say seat belt use in the US is about 90%, however non-wearers make up nearly half of the fatalities.

                  1. Snake Silver badge

                    Re: Seatbelts

                    "Certainly the latest stats I could see say seat belt use in the US is about 90%, however non-wearers make up nearly half of the fatalities."

                    And that's called Darwinism. You know, the same thing that anti-vaxxers can [hopefully] become exposed to...

                  2. John Robson Silver badge

                    Re: Thanks to the Vaxxed

                    "Mandatory wearing of seat belts reduces the likelihood of death or injury in case an accident happens, but does not reduce the death rate per capita."

                    Wilde GJS. Target risk: dealing with the danger of death, disease and damage in everyday decisions. Toronto: PDE Publications, 1994.

                    Seatbelts certainly protect individuals wearing them, there is no real doubt there.

                    But the introduction of them should have generated a drop in the road casualty rate, whereas what actually happened was that the gradual decline in casualties plateaued for the rest of the decade before slowing again. (UK figures - Legislation introduced at the start of 1983)

                    Data from: https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ukgwa/20110503151558/http:/www.dft.gov.uk/adobepdf/162469/221412/221549/227755/rrcgb2009.pdf

                    1. trindflo

                      Re: Thanks to the Vaxxed

                      I took a look at your PDF.

                      One problem I see with the reported deaths is that they are for all motor vehicles. I didn't see where that was broken down by cars (that have seatbelts) and other sorts of vehicles where they don't exist or are unlikely to be used: motorcycles, buses, taxis.

                      Another issue I'm aware of in the US is that after seatbelts became mandatory equipment there was an expectation that of course people would use them. It needed to be mandated and police needed to stop people for not wearing them; often the safety belt could be seen dangling out the driver's door. I assume the use in Great Britain also needed to be mandated at some point, but if not hats off to your nation.

                      1. John Robson Silver badge

                        Re: Thanks to the Vaxxed

                        The mandate was 1983 - and the wearing rates did spike significantly, but the data doesn't show any corresponding drop in deaths... which implies that even though they clearly help an individual when an accident happens they don't actually reduce the death rate on a large scale. The most likely explanation is that people feel safe so take more risks. In this particular instance the risks disproportionally affect those who aren't protected by the seat belts (i.e. motorcyclists, pedestrians etc).

            3. Kane Silver badge
              Boffin

              Re: Thanks to the Vaxxed

              "If you were vaccinated against smallpox, what were the chances you'd contract smallpox? Apparently, getting vaccinated against Covid19 doesn't actually prevent you from catching, carrying, or spreading, Covid19, it only probably prevents covid from killing you as fast."

              Vaccines do not provide immunity, they provide the ability for the immune system to be better prepared for if it comes under attack.

            4. DS999 Silver badge

              Smallpox vaccine was "only" 95% effective

              About the same as the mRNA vaccines after the second shot.

              The thing that made smallpox unable to spread quite so effectively as Covid-19 is that it wasn't contagious until sores were clearly visible on patients - so it was easy to know who the hell to stay far away from if you hadn't already survived it. Covid-19 is at its most contagious before the carrier has symptoms - and half the cases are without symptoms so unless they got tested they never knew they were spreading it even in hindsight. With smallpox, everyone had symptoms so there was never any silent transmission.

              Smallpox also killed a third of the people who caught it, so there weren't a bunch of idiot deniers running around saying "its just like the flu!" Or if there were, they quickly paid for it with their lives.

          2. jmch Silver badge

            Re: Thanks to the Vaxxed

            Not sure whether to thumbs-up for this: "I don't care if people get vaccinated. I care if those who do not get vaccinated go out in public especially in crowds"

            or thumbs-down for this: "Not getting vaccinated as a teacher should count as attempted manslaughter".

            Now, serious question: we don't deny a hospital bed to alcoholics, heavy smokers, people whose dietary choices lead them to be obese and/or diabetic, or adrenaline junkies involved in accidents, when they require medical attention for things that are related to their life choices. Why should being unvaccinated be any different from any of the above?

            Of course there are ways to promote certain behaviours and dissuade others: Smokers are uninsurable for certain things and carry higher premiums for others. Drinkers aren't (usually*) eligible for a liver transplant. I can see the logic of unvaccinated people having to pay higher health insurance premiums. But not of denying them a hospital bed, nor of making vaccination status into a sort of Chinese social score where unvaccinated people are second-class citizens

            *unless you're famous I guess eg George Best

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Thanks to the Vaxxed

              Nobody is denying an antivaxxer a hospital bed right now. But there are morons extracting patients that are critically ill with COVID from hospital beds; and putting them at seriously higher risk (or in some cases killing them). Or the nutters grifting off selling horse dewormer as snake oil (causing shortages of said medicines for their intended uses).

              The second class citizen argument; I know where you are coming from, with some employers now saying get vaccinated, or get sacked. But frankly; the answer is get vaccinated. There is no excuse at this point with regards availability in the US or UK (if not the Western World full stop); and the range of vaccines available means the odds of them ALL being unsuitable for you on medical grounds is basically zero.

              Any argument you might make around vaccine safety versus going unvaccinated is null and void, because the risk is overwhelmingly worse for being unvaccinated - for either your selfish self, or for anyone you ever come into contact with.

              So stop with the horseshit trying to evade getting a needle you might be mildly scared and/or inconvenienced by for 24 hrs, and get it sorted.

              Simples.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                @AC - Re: Thanks to the Vaxxed

                For my curiosity, on what basis do we have to assume that all people who are not vaccinated will get sick, contaminate others and die ? Any studies besides those generously offered by what we use to call "Big Pharma" that will enlighten us ?

                I find it hilariously weird that those who are vaccinated fear those who are not.

                1. This post has been deleted by its author

              2. Jellied Eel Silver badge

                Re: Thanks to the Vaxxed

                Any argument you might make around vaccine safety versus going unvaccinated is null and void, because the risk is overwhelmingly worse for being unvaccinated - for either your selfish self, or for anyone you ever come into contact with.

                I.. see. So basically get vaccinated, or else. Would that be herd mentality, or herd immunity?

                If the latter, well, it's not really working, ie people who have been vaccinated have also been catching covid and being hospitalised. But selling booster jabs will apparently fix this. If not, well, the vaccine producers aren't liable.

                But what about risk? We're about to conduct experiments on school kids. They want the jabs. Or their parents want their kids jabbed. Or teachers. Or vaccine company's sales VPs. But the risk to kids from covid is extremely low, whereas the risk from the vaccine is unknown.

                But that's a general issue. People often aren't good at understanding risk, especially when data and propaganda haven't been great. So the good'ol 'case' counts that simply counted test results rather than whether people were ill from covid or not. Especially when cycle counts for PCR tests were set too high, so tests were too sensitive. Filter through that noise and it becomes clearer who the at risk groups were, ie the elderly, obese and some other pre-existing conditions. And if you're generally fit & healthy, the low risk of covid infection's balaned against the risk of say, myocarditis from being vaccinated.

                But then there are other policy problems. So unvaccinated people are becoming second class citizens, and denied various things. Get jabbed if you want to keep your job. Get jabbed if you want to travel. Get jabbed if you don't want Bath University's 'unclean' wristband.

                Of course if people have already been vaccinated, then they're safe. It's the unvaccinated that are taking the risk. So if they get ill, it's their problem, not the vaccinated.. Oh, except the vaccine isn't a magic bullet, and being vaccinated could actually increase the risk (ADE). Or Bath's policy may also need a short-sleeves mandate so wristbands are visible at all times. Failing that, there's always badges so the vaccinated can keep at least 2m from the unclean.

                Or there's some other boring science stuff. Like if you've already had covid, and recovered, you'll have antibodies. That's basic immune system stuff, and potentially means you're better protected than someone who's just been vaccinated. So why would someone with natural immunity need a jab? Other than policy, and perhaps a lack of antibody testing..

                But that's also an issue with fake vaccination claims given the only way to really understand if someone has been vaccinated (or developed natural immunty) is to look for the antibodies. But that would be a GoodThing(tm) because it would help assess vaccines effectiveness, and an idea of the spread of natural immunity. There will be millions of people who've had covid without realising it, so unlikely to have been tested and become a 'case'.

                1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

                  Re: Thanks to the Vaxxed

                  Of course if people have already been vaccinated, then they're safe."

                  I'm not disagreeing with you but I have to take issue with that point. Of the people dying in hospital from Covid in the UK, four times as many are dying who were unvaccinated compared to those who have been vaccinated. That's a pretty rough comparison because the figures are not broken down into who the people dying are, ages, underlying conditions etc, but it's a significant difference that shows just having the vaccine doesn't mean you are safe, it means you are at least 4 times less likely to die than if you don't get vaccinated. Of course, the risk of dying from Covid is vastly reduced now anyway too because we know more about it and how to treat it.

                  1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

                    Re: Thanks to the Vaxxed

                    I'm not disagreeing with you but I have to take issue with that point.

                    You're meant to. But it's also part of the problem. Focus is now on making sure everyone is vaccinated, regardless of medical need. Or whether it's a good idea (ADE again).

                    That's a pretty rough comparison because the figures are not broken down into who the people dying are, ages, underlying conditions etc, but it's a significant difference that shows just having the vaccine doesn't mean you are safe..

                    Exactly. But there's also the problem with stats, and PR again. Dead within 28 days of a positive test (or vaccination) and covid killed you. Or the vaccine did. Or covid made up some (or none) contributing factor to the death. As you say, there are many cofactors that might have been involved that make the situation more complicated than declaring 'cases', or covid deaths.

                    Throwing vaccinations, and mutations into the mix just makes attribution a whole lot harder. Delta's apparently more transmissable, but less lethal. Typing the variant takes time & costs money, so may not get done. So it then gets harder to say with confidence that milder cases are due to a milder strain, vaccination, natural immunity, treatment regimes or a combination of all of those.

                    But politics, the media and other vested interests don't necessarily understand that, and so prefer simple messaging. Get vaccinated, or lose your job! Even if the vaccination offers no benefit, and represents an additional risk. Which in the case of vaccinating kids, especially with the mRNA vaccines is pretty much an unknown long-term risk.

                    Despite being vaccinated myself, the natural immunity issue is still an important one. It means a person may have better immunity than a vaccine offers, so the vaccine is pointless. As is curtailing any rights for the naturally immune person. So there's an aspect of non-science public policy in forcing vaccinations on people who don't need them, which isn't the way medecine is supposed to work. But again, the problem is identifying those people. One way is to assume that a positive PCR test means natural immunity, but when PCR testing was done too aggressively, that might be an incorrect assumption, along with the way it inflated 'cases'.

                    1. This post has been deleted by its author

                2. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: Thanks to the Vaxxed

                  Keep digging that selfish hole, you ignorant antivax scum.

                  There are plenty of better educated 12 year olds openly expressing that they cannot wait to be vaccinated.

                  There are plenty of people full stop that recognise even if they are at lower risk themselves, they recognise the risk to everyone else. And the best way to mitigate that we have right now, is to get vaccinated.

                  Natural immunity plus a vaccination provides equal or better cover, so saying “It doesn’t do much more” is a fairly pointless argument versus spending a shedload on antibody testing on mass scale. Your argument that a vaccine could be higher risk is moot, because it’s efficacy and side effects are well known. About 4bn test cases so far..

                  And if you become second class, from your selfish approach, frankly, I do not care one jot, because you clearly do not give a hoot about anyone but yourself by being scared of a needle.

                  Enjoy your measles, tb, smallpox, polio, etc. The rest of us first class citizens won’t miss your absence for your obstinance.

                  1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

                    Re: Thanks to the Vaxxed

                    Keep digging that selfish hole, you ignorant antivax scum.

                    A pleasure to meet you, and thank you for demonstrating what the media has created..

                    There are plenty of better educated 12 year olds openly expressing that they cannot wait to be vaccinated.

                    I think you mean 'indoctrinated' rather than educated. But that's the problem. An educated 12yr old should realise their risk from covid is essentially zero. They're extremely unlikely to become ill, or become a carrier. They may also know that the vaccines haven't been trialled on children, and the short & long term effects are unknown. The first rule of medicine is "First do no harm", yet peer pressure is about to enrol your 12yr old in the world's largest medical experiment.

                    Natural immunity plus a vaccination provides equal or better cover, so saying “It doesn’t do much more” is a fairly pointless argument versus spending a shedload on antibody testing on mass scale.

                    Nope. Natural immunity arguably provides better, and longer duration resistance than vaccination. Your body would have the antibodies, so can resist subsequent infections. So vaccination is pretty much pointless, and an additional risk. The only benefit is being able to flash your vaccine 'passport' to demonstrate you're one of the herd.

                    And antibody testing is necessary, otherwise you have no idea how effective either natural immunity or the vaccines actually are. You may have seen news stories discussing this, or even journal articles, or just stories about the 'need' for booster shots.

                    The rest of us first class citizens won’t miss your absence for your obstinance.

                    Again, thank you for demonstrating the problem. I'm actually vaccinated btw..

            2. TheFifth

              Re: Thanks to the Vaxxed

              Firstly, I'll say I don't agree that we should deny the unvaccinated beds, however I don't think what you say are equivalents.

              The thing is, smoking, drinking, eating too much etc. are not contagious. You could make an argument about passive smoking, but since we banned smoking in indoor public areas, that's not such a problem. You can't kill someone else by eating too many pies yourself.

              When someone refuses to get vaccinated (and those same people are likely to refuse to wear a mask too), they stand more of a chance of having a higher viral load and passing it on to others. They could pass it on to someone unable to be vaccinated (those with auto-immune disease etc.), or cause a breakthrough infection in an elderly person (vaccines are less effective in the elderly). They are not only a danger to themselves, they are a danger to others too.

              So I don't view someone who is obese or alcoholic in the same way I do those who choose to be unvaccinated at all.

              1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

                Re: Thanks to the Vaxxed

                You can't kill someone else by eating too many pies yourself.

                Sure you can. Someone who's morbidly obese is more likely to end up in hospital, and thus take up a bed that could have been assigned to a vaccinated covid sufferer. Or someone who's injured themselves playing sports, or indulging in some other risky activity like DIY.

                But previously, the medical system doesn't judge, just treated patients as they present. In the UK, that means the NHS spends money. In the US, someone with a self-inflicted injury will pay dearly, especially if their insurer doesn't cover it.

                But such is politics. Some people seem happy to deny the unvaccinated medical care, or other services. That just builds on anti-smoking PR. So why not go after the fatties next? And then which group should be socially ostracised after that?

              2. jmch Silver badge

                Re: Thanks to the Vaxxed

                "When someone refuses to get vaccinated (and those same people are likely to refuse to wear a mask too), they stand more of a chance of having a higher viral load and passing it on to others. They could pass it on to someone unable to be vaccinated"

                You know what, I get the solidarity angle of vaccination, and the societal pressure to do so. What I don't get is the pointing / shaming / blaming of those who decide to pass. If someone is in regular contact with vulnerable people, say a healthcare worker or someone in the family, then they should get vaccinated to protect their patients / family / friends. Vulnerable people can choose to only interact with vaccinated people, avoid crowds, and take other measures like masks themselves. Alternatively, they can take their chances and mingle more with crowds and strangers.

                But don't be expecting complete strangers who don't otherwise want to vaccinate themselves to do so just in case some random person in the crowd could be vulnerable.

                Just to be clear, I am very much pro-vaccination. I am also very much pro letting people make their own choices, and I am also very much pro to having a constructive and understanding dialogue with those in disagreement rather than name-calling and sanctions.

                1. trindflo

                  Re: Thanks to the Vaxxed

                  "the pointing / shaming / blaming" is happening on forums. This is denying people who want to spread misinformation an unchallenged bully pulpit. It is nothing close to anti-vaccine fanatics intentionally spoiling the vaccines so they don't work, which is the sort of thing that happens when an unchallenged preacher is allowed to foment irrational fervor.

            3. trindflo

              Re: Thanks to the Vaxxed

              The concern is that the hospitals become overwhelmed. Hospitals are doing a great job of keeping a percentage of people who contract the disease from dying. If the hospitals do become overwhelmed I can see an argument for treating the people who got vaccinated first.

              1. jmch Silver badge

                Re: Thanks to the Vaxxed

                "The concern is that the hospitals become overwhelmed"

                One thing I haven't often seen mentioned is that even before covid many hospitals were understaffed and overworked. AFAIK the appreciation being shown to front line health workers has been mostly limited to applause, social standing and Facebook likes... Not so much in terms of salary

            4. Old Used Programmer Silver badge

              Re: Thanks to the Vaxxed

              The other reasons you cite aren't filling ICUs past capacity. Unvaxxed COVID-19 cases are. So when it gets to the point of having to ration medical care (read recent articles about Idaho), and it comes to a choice between a serious COVID-19 case in someone unvaxxed OR one of the other types of cases, what should happen? Where does the deliberately unvaxxed COVID-19 case sit in the priority queue when there isn't the staff or beds to accept everybody who needs that level of care?

              1. jmch Silver badge

                Re: Thanks to the Vaxxed

                "Where does the deliberately unvaxxed COVID-19 case sit in the priority queue"

                How do you know what counts as 'deliberate'? Health issues for which vaccination is contraindicated aren't always black and white.

    2. anonanonanonanonanon

      Re: Thanks to the Vaxxed

      I think we're supposed to be dead in a year right? So you should start finding out what an absolute moron you are in a bout 2-3 months?

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Thanks to the Vaxxed

      You forgot the joke icon.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Anti Vax protesters

    The anti vax protesters here in Oz keep banging on about how they are being discriminated against. However, I have had a look at the relevant legislation and as far as I can tell (IANAL) at least here where I live, it isn't actually illegal to discriminate against morons.

  8. Binraider Silver badge

    Any possibility of antivaxx crap being just 'satire' long since stopped being funny.

    It's a grifting industry and both the antivaxxers and those that profit off it need a good slap. Looking at those making t-shirts, mugs hell, even newspapers are being printed now specifically to spread antivaxx crap.

    We like to talk about censorship here. well, I can't use rude language on telly before 9PM (except every channel in the universe does it anyway), but I can willfully spread disinformation that IS killing people. If that isn't a system in need of reforms I don't know what is.

    Good on United Airlines saying get vaccinated or get sacked. Some of us would like to use what limited time we have here to see the world rather than being perpetually stuck at home.

    1. jake Silver badge

      "Good on United Airlines saying get vaccinated or get sacked."

      Some cities here in California are doing this, too. The largest city that I am aware of which is going to be implementing it is San Jose. Naturally, some will quit over this mandate. Including some members of the city's police department ... not just "civilian" employees, but also sworn officers.

      It occurs to me that the fucking morons refusing to get vaccinated probably contain the small subset of cops who play fast and loose with civil rights. Perhaps this pandemic will bring about at least a little bit of decent change.

      It's an ill wind & all that.

  9. jmch Silver badge

    Excellent!

    This type of misinformation isn't some sort of harmless flat-earthism, it can have dangerous consequences.

    What I DO really wish for though, is to stop the totalinariansim around vaccines and actually inform people in detail. So many mainstream media stop at 'vaccines are safe and effective' and leave it at that. Health authorities and media seem scared to say in clear plain language:

    "Yes, there ARE cases when vaccines cause harm, in some cases permanently, and there are people who are going to die because of the vaccine, this is unfortunately inevitable when dangerous side-effects are one in many millions but we're giving this to a few billions. Even though there are risks with the vaccine, it's much less than the risks of covid, where the chances of illness, permanent damage, or death, are all X times more likely than with the vaccine, and that X can vary wildly between different groups of people. Here are the details, talk about it with your GP and decide for yourselves"

    Branding people who are reluctant to get vaccinated as nutters isn't going to make them more likely to vaccinate. Denying that any injury/death to vaccinated people is related to the vaccination while refusing to acknowledge that many people died *with* covid not *of* covid is just stoking conspiracy theories, because if you do the numbers properly, vaccines are still considerably safer (for most groups). Insisting that children should be vaccinated when the cost-benefit in this age group is non-existant and currently FDA etc approved studies were adult-only is nuts.

    1. Martin an gof Silver badge

      Re: Excellent!

      Insisting that children should be vaccinated when the cost-benefit in this age group is non-existant.

      It's small, but not non-existent. There are some direct benefits from children with certain underlying health conditions, but for healthy children the benefit is mostly indirect and it does seem to be far, far smaller than the benefit that would be gained by vaccinating all adults worldwide. What is most concerning to me is that we are using vaccines on children (with a small benefit) instead of sending them to countries which can't afford to vaccinate their adult populations. There was even a story last week about vaccines going out-of-date because we (in the UK) have stockpiled too many!

      The benefits from vaccinating healthy children are "indirect" because they are nearly all to do with adults. At one step removed, although children rarely suffer badly from a CoViD infection, they can act as carriers. Vaccinating would reduce their efficacy as carriers and therefore their chances of infecting adults, who may not have had the vaccine, perhaps for a medical reason, or whose immune systems haven't responded well to the vaccine, or who are simply unlucky.

      This kind of benefit is not just on health grounds - you might prevent a hospital admission or even a death - but also on economic grounds; an adult who tests positive has to self-isolate. In the UK this is for ten days either from last contact with the infected person or from the day following a positive test.

      A child testing positive also has to isolate, and most children in the UK are testing (using Lateral Flow Tests) twice a week, so many (though by no means all) asymptomatic infections are caught. If a child is isolating then the adults in its life will probably have to take time off work in order to look after it at home and set up home schooling.

      At two steps removed, even though UK guidance is now that a fully-vaccinated adult who tests negative after an encounter with someone testing positive does not have to isolate (but is encouraged to take daily LFTs), some sectors have slightly different rules. The NHS in Wales, for example, requires that if the positive case is within the same household, an NHS worker - even if they test negative - must be withdrawn from patient-facing roles.

      These are all economic costs which would be reduced if children were vaccinated and therefore less likely to become infected, and if infected less likely to be infectious, but (and I haven't seen figures, but it just seems obvious) the health and economic benefits of vaccinating healthy children in "first world" countries surely pale into insignificance compared with the health and economic benefits of ensuring that all adults worldwide are vaccinated.

      M.

      1. jmch Silver badge

        Re: Excellent!

        "It's small, but not non-existent."

        Granted

        "What is most concerning to me is that we are using vaccines on children (with a small benefit) instead of sending them to countries which can't afford to vaccinate their adult populations."

        Absolutely this!

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Google v. Russia

    the Russians are really hurt that their state-sponsored and controlled, totally impartial, bestest-clicked German-speaking yt channels are off yt. How dare they, those google lackeys of evil imperialism tell Mother Russia how to conduct information war, it's like, SO UNFAIR and we shall make them pay for this! (literally)

    But, beside that popcorn-time level, it does look like putinism is batting down the hatches...

    1. KittenHuffer Silver badge
      Trollface

      I hate to be an idiom nazi .....

      ..... but the saying is to "batten down the hatches"!

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I hate to be an idiom nazi .....

        My personal favourite is 'butter', for the visual effect

        1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I hate to be an idiom nazi .....

        Batting down the hatches is much more fun and intrinsically violent!!!

  11. Peter D

    When does misinformation become information?

    This is a laudable action but it could end in tears. What if a mother, say, felt her child had been adversely affected by a vaccine in a hitherto unreported way and wanted to bring attention to her concerns? Now, she could find no other parents came forward and her thesis would be rejected. Alternatively, a number of parents from around the world could report the same issue. In isolation these reports would have gone unnoticed by local regulators. However, Mavis through her YouTube channel had gathered evidence of a rare side effect. Of course, Mavis would never be able to do this now because she would be guilty of spreading misinformation. Wen does misinformation become information? Mavis needs to know.

    1. jake Silver badge

      Re: When does misinformation become information?

      Does Mavis have a doctor to talk to about her little one? You know, the people who have years and years of study designed exactly to put them in a position to be able to help people out in situations like this?

      No, no, no, whatever was I thinking ... Obviously she must post it to YouTube, that way she'll get all of humanity responding to her, and she won't have any trouble whatsoever separating out fact from fiction. Especially all those facts the doctors, the WHO and the CDC are hiding from us law abiding citizens.

      Honestly, the mind boggles ...

      1. Peter D

        Re: When does misinformation become information?

        Mavis went to her doctor with her concerns and he told her that there had been no reports of this side effect and little Malcolm's symptoms were unrelated to the vaccine and remained idiopathic (that's medical speak for we haven't got a clue).

        1. jake Silver badge

          Re: When does misinformation become information?

          Get a second opinion, as allowed by law. And a third, if necessary. Make noise. But in useful places.

          Posting to YouTube and the like will get you nothing but cranks. If you're lucky.

          As a side note, how "little" is Malcolm? If he's all THAT young, he's in the experimental group and Mavis's doctor automatically has access to all the data available, most of which will not be found on You Tube as yet as it hasn't been published for the simple reason that it's still being compiled.

          1. Peter D

            Re: When does misinformation become information?

            Mavis believes Malcolm is still little because of the particular vaccine he was given 4 years ago when he was 12.

            1. Dinanziame Silver badge
              Stop

              Re: When does misinformation become information?

              Then Mavis should listen to her doctor telling her this is unrelated to the vaccine. She should most definitely not listen to whatever crap people trying to sell dodgy nutrients are spouting on the internet. There's one person like Mavis born every minute, but we should protect people like Mavis from those trying to take advantage of them.

            2. jake Silver badge

              Re: When does misinformation become information?

              So Mavis is posting a question (not a statement) about a vaccine, and the question has to do with something other than Covid to boot ... So what was your worry about YouTube removing incorrect info about Covid, again? You seem to have lost track of the plot.

        2. Martin an gof Silver badge

          Re: When does misinformation become information?

          But even so, Mavis's doctor reported the case via the mandatory "yellow card" system because as a professional he realises his knowledge is incomplete, where it met a similar report from another doctor and triggered further investigation.

          Well, that's the theory...

          M.

      2. anonanonanonanonanon

        Re: When does misinformation become information?

        But you know what would happen, the video would be picked up and amplified with no context, and simply serve as fuel for the antivaxxers, any useful replies she might get would be buried

        1. Peter D

          Re: When does misinformation become information?

          Mavis is not media savvy enough to understand these concerns but she does have legitimate concerns about her diminutive offspring. A few years ago he had dreams of being a professional basketball player and now he can't even watch a game because he can't see over the kid sitting in front of him.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: When does misinformation become information?

            She does not have a legitimate concern. She's looking for somebody to blame for what goes wrong in her life. There are people who will lie to her in order to take advantage of her, and she would totally believe these people because they're telling her what she wants to hear, as opposed to the unwelcome truth that her kid is just small, like many other people, and she should deal with it.

          2. jake Silver badge

            Re: When does misinformation become information?

            And MeDearOldMum had dreams of me being an Astronaut. Sadly, I was pigeon-toed, cross-eyed and extremely near-sighted so I washed out of Air Force Pilot training before I even got there. Clearly, MeDearOldMum should have been blaming all those nasty vaccines I got as a child, not her own genetics.

            1. Outski Silver badge

              Re: When does misinformation become information?

              Whereas my mum was delighted when I became short-sighted and developed hay fever in childhood, as it meant that there was close to bugger all chance of me following in her father's footsteps and joining the RAF as a pilot or navigator (he didn't come back from a raid over northern France in '44).

    2. naive Silver badge

      Re: When does misinformation become information?

      “And if all others accepted the lie which the Party imposed—if all records told the same tale—then the lie passed into history and became truth. ‘Who controls the past’ ran the Party slogan, ‘controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.'”

      (George Orwell 1984)

      Hail to our overlords Marc, Sundar, Larry, Satya and Sergey for keeping us healthy.

      1. Peter D

        Re: When does misinformation become information?

        I should point out that I'm most definitely pro-vax. What worries me is the idea that companies like Google consider themselves to be legitimate arbiters of what constitutes misinformation. On one hand they benefit from being considered not a publisher but on the other they behave exactly like one. What qualifies Google to have their cake and also to eat it?

        1. Androgynous Cupboard Silver badge

          Re: When does misinformation become information?

          The fact that they have taken two years to come off the fence shows that they have thought about this point too. For far too long, in my opinion.

          In common with many wringing their hands in doubt over vaccines, you appear to be worrying about the splinter and ignoring the log. There are no risk free options. Yes, there is a non-zero risk from a vaccine, just as there is a non-zero risk that real information will be caught in Google dragnet. However this must be weighed against the risk of not being vaccinated, or the risk that Youtube would otherwise be peddling misinformation directly leading to peoples deaths.

          You don't get to avoid this choice, and you have to make it with uncertain knowledge. Life's unfair like that, I know. Google have made a choice, it's the right one, and it would have been the right one 18 months ago. It seems they were wringing their hands too.

          1. stiine Silver badge
            Facepalm

            Re: When does misinformation become information?

            Seriously? I think they finally got a wakeup call because their advertisers started to complain about advertising to people who think the government could afford to manufacture enough injectable microchips to implant into the 7 billion people on the planet if they could only convince everyone to get a shot...

            1. jake Silver badge

              Re: When does misinformation become information?

              Exactly. Follow the money. The bad publicity was affecting their bottom line, so they have started pulling the obvious bullshit.

              One wonders if profits actually increased in some measurable way when they pulled posting rights from a certain ex-president ... if so, it would explain why the various multi-billion dollar advertising companies are now more prone to jerk the platform out from under the bullshit artists.

              And about fucking time, too.

        2. Binraider Silver badge

          Re: When does misinformation become information?

          How is Google any different to other news outlets in this regard. There are widely read rags full of not only terrible journalism but downright lies that routinely influence the outcome of elections and referenda.

          The level of misreporting regarding the industry I work in is staggering. Many people all over the world vehemently deny the reality upon us. Partly fuelled by certain papers spreading FUD about the changes that the world and economy HAS to go through. Secondly fuelled by the economic reality that making that change is going to be painful.

          Google is doing the right thing here. Eventually. Nobody is forcing them to remove content.

          I hope setting an example is a prompt for others to follow.

          One way or the other, the species will be dragged kicking and screaming and survive somehow; or it will destroy itself. Fighting for the former is a worthwhile cause.

          1. stiine Silver badge
            Coffee/keyboard

            Re: When does misinformation become information?

            You presume that the government didn't send them an NSL that said 'boot all of the channels you consider to be anti-vax'

            Yes, that would be stupid, but this is the U.S. government we're talking about.

            1. jake Silver badge

              Re: When does misinformation become information?

              Yes, the US Government is stupid (all large governments are, almost by definition). But there was no NSL. Not this time. No need.

              Ol' Bill of Occam sez follow the money.

        3. jake Silver badge

          Re: When does misinformation become information?

          "What worries me is the idea that companies like Google consider themselves to be legitimate arbiters of what constitutes misinformation."

          What worries me is that people as a herd consider the bullshit they read online to be TRVTH. As I've been saying for decades, Critical Thinking 101 should be mandatory for high school graduation.

          "On one hand they benefit from being considered not a publisher but on the other they behave exactly like one."

          Oh, horseshit. They allow you to publish any old bullshit, to your heart's content ... UNTIL you start to affect their company (and shareholders) negatively. At that point, you get slapped on the hand, the offending content gets removed, and you get told not to do it again.

          It is NOT the stuff that they are publishing that gets pulled, it is the stuff that you are publishing that gets pulled. The freedom of the press belongs to he who owns one.

    3. Cybersaber

      Re: When does misinformation become information?

      Medical professionals have systems to document and catch these kinds of reports for researchers to research. More concerning is the chilling effect of politicizing science like what happened to the investigation into the origins of COVID-19 as per the recent US congressional hearing.

      This would cause those systems to document the *potential* rare corner-cases from being investigated by those researchers because they're told they shouldn't research it. (nobody has done that re: COVID vaccines, but it was chilling when it was done to origin studies.)

      So in summary, as long as actual _scientists_ (i.e. not cranks on social media) aren't told they're not allowed to research, Mavis's problem already has a solution i.e. there already are researchers who do this kind of research for really rare medication side-effects long before 2020 and COVID.

    4. DrXym Silver badge

      Re: When does misinformation become information?

      If the mother thinks her child is harmed she should talk to her doctor. The doctor will report an adverse reaction and analysts will determine if there is an actual risk associated with the vaccine. It also means the child will see a doctor to be treated for harm.

      Or mommy could go on social media and spread her uninformed opinion about her child's "vaccine injury" where it will be picked up by antivaxxers, embellished and amplified. Eventually enough people are scared out of vaccinating their kids that outbreaks occur and people die or suffer harm for real.

      So yeah, social media needs to snuff this bullshit out as soon as it happens and unleash the ban hammer on channels & users that spread misinfo.

  12. big_D Silver badge
    Black Helicopters

    5G chip...

    It also includes claims that vaccines facilitate the remote tracking of recipients, which is evidently a thing among the tin-foil hat crowd.

    Yes, it is that damned 5G chip they slip in... It was a little "extra" provided by Bill Gates. It also makes you want to buy Microsoft products. Although, I have a feeling that my chip might be damaged. Since I got my vaccination, I've bought an iPad and I've installed Linux on my main PC, replacing Windows 10...

    Can I get my money back?

    :-D

    1. jake Silver badge

      Re: 5G chip...

      "Can I get my money back?"

      You can have every penny you paid for the jab returned to you. Make sure you have your receipt(s) with you when you make your claim in order to expedite processing. Thank you.

      1. stiine Silver badge

        Re: 5G chip...

        Are you counting tax money paid? Surely you don't think all of these shots are free... that would just be stupid.

        1. jake Silver badge

          Re: 5G chip...

          ::sighs::

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: 5G chip...

      Apparently, Bill decided against putting chips in the vaccines and put them in the horse worming tablets instead.

    3. Jellied Eel Silver badge

      Re: 5G chip...

      Actually, the statement is correct. Although it's not the vaccines per se, it's the track & trace apps that get installed alongside them, Or just being told to flash your 'vaccine passport' so you can be tracked there.

      There's also some truth in 'particles' in the vaccine. Like in Japan, where some vaccines had been contaminated during manufacturing. So context is important, and differentiating between self-assembling nanotech 5G radios, and other possible contamination.

      1. jake Silver badge

        Re: 5G chip...

        What are these "apps" you speak of?

  13. mark l 2 Silver badge

    While removing these antivax nutters from YT is a good thing, the cynical part of me thinks that Google are not going this for the good of the community but because they have decided that because most advertisers don't want their ads running along side these sort of videos. So they decided it actually worth nuking the channels for the positive PR since they were probably not attracting any big brands that were willing to pay top prices for the ad slots on those videos anyway.

  14. Tired and grumpy

    Yes, let's suppress all dissent. Doing that made the USSR such a lovely place and look how well it's working in China. Does no one on the left recognise the slipperiness of the slope, or are you all just happy to avoid any challenge to your consensus?

    El Reg itself might considering worrying about when the culture warriors will start coming after snark. The general tone of the organ, when not virtue-signalling, has no shortage of micro-aggressions. But, as Pastor Niemuller said, there will be no one left to speak up for you.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Its not dissent. It is provably and proven not just to be inaccurate but to be positively harmful. It took a long time, but eventually most places went from doctors recommending certain brands of cigarettes to complete advertising bans and in some places plain packaging with "using this product will kill you and the people you love" messaging. Nobody sensible is claiming the free speech right to encourage people to take up smoking because it is good for your health any more and many countries are clamping down on secondhand smoke too because although they havent yet banned smoking altogether they are very keen to reduce the harm caused by smokers to other people.

      Vaccine conspiracy theories are similar. Yes, CoViD is a thing. Yes, many people have died as a direct result of catching the disease. No, the cure is most definitely not worse than the disease. Saying otherwise is actively positively harmful and frankly in the cases of the worst offenders I hope there is someone out there looking very seriously at whether it is possible to charge them with attempted manslaughter or a similar charge in the same way you would go after a drug dealer knowingly handing out drugs cut with rat poisin.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        No, the cure is most definitely not worse than the disease.

        With all due respect you, nor anyone else, can say that for certain for every demographic. Vaccine side effects can take several years to manifest themselves, especially if they trigger immune conditions.

        Please bear in mind that 80% of people that contract COVID are asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic.

    2. jake Silver badge
      Pint

      "El Reg itself might considering worrying about when the culture warriors will start coming after snark."

      They keep trying, but us Loyal Commentards keep beating them off with a stick.

      Funny, isn't it, how we fight like cats & dogs over many things, but are united in keeping the general tone of this august organ as it is.

      Personally, I think that useful info flows far more freely with an element of snark to lubricate it. That's what made the good points of Usenet take off as fast as it did. I could point to many FOSS projects that wouldn't be what they are without it, too. And many proprietary projects that withered on the vine without it,

      Beers all around.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    And some are going 'old school'

    Went to pick up my usual Metro on the way to work the other day and discovered I'd picked up a copy of 'The Light' by mistake, a 'truthpaper' declaring"1400 dead and 1m affected by the vaccine" on the front page

    (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/27/truthpaper-the-anti-lockdown-newspaper-bypassing-online-fact-checkers)

    1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

      Went to pick up my usual Metro on the way to work the other day and discovered I'd picked up a copy of 'The Light' by mistake, a 'truthpaper' declaring"1400 dead and 1m affected by the vaccine" on the front page

      Sounds plausiible*

      So a covid death was anyone who died within 28days** of a positive covid test.

      A covid 'case' was anyone who tested positive.

      So by the same standards, anyone who dies within 28days of being vaccinated could be a vaccine related death***

      Anyone hospitalised (for any reason) could become a vaccine 'case'.

      *This post contains traces of sarcasm and cynicism.

      ** Or did they? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbwlGv9SWfY

      *** There are lies, damn lies and....?

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Well known mechanic about to fall foul?

    A youtuber I have followed for years and respect, well known for his mechanical revival has started on the anti vax/ivermectin rubbish. Just little things dropped in the main videos of fixing old stuff. I really hope he doesn't end up as collateral damage from this :(

    1. Santa from Exeter

      Re: Well known mechanic about to fall foul?

      That would not be collateral damage.

      He is, if anything, worse than the rabid anti-vaxxers as many can see them for the single issue nutters they are.

      If he is slipping in 'gentle homilies' amongst the useful stuff he is subverting people subtly, and therefore harder to spot.

      Just treat it as 'Oh Well, he used to be a decent guy' and find another fixit channel.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Well known mechanic about to fall foul?

      Give us a clue, please!

  17. This post has been deleted by its author

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    https://newsthump.com/2021/09/30/pro-vaxxer-who-caught-covid-found-alive-and-well/

  19. _LC_ Silver badge
    Pirate

    Remember the laptop of Biden's son?

    Can you recall when news about another “lost” laptop of Biden's son came out and it was dismissed as Russian propaganda? YouTube deleted videos about it. Twitter deleted posts...

    Months later, it turns out that the story was 100% true. The Russians didn't have anything to do with it, of course.

    When do you realize that this is 1984?

    1. stiine Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: Remember the laptop of Biden's son?

      a long time ago when i was in 10th grade, back in 1984.

  20. DrXym Silver badge

    Good

    Medical misinfo kills people and YouTube seems to be one of the good guys in stamping it out. Certainly better than Facebook or Twitter which are doing next to nothing.

    Facebook has a way to report misinfo but barely enforces it.

    Twitter claims to operate a 5 strikes rule but has no way to report misinfo. It seems they only respond when the media shames them into responding. I could point to the likes of Ivor Cummins, Gillian McKeith and others who spread lies day in day out with zero repercussions. If Twitter were serious about their own rules these people would have been banned within weeks of the policy coming into effect.

    1. stiine Silver badge

      Re: Good

      If you get your medical (mis)info from rando youtube channels, then you deserve to die by whatever method they convince you to try.

      I just hope the CDC channel is nuked because of their 'masks don't work' statements/lies from early in 2020. That would just be poignant.

      1. _LC_ Silver badge

        Re: Good

        To be true, we knew that masks didn't work decades ago. This has long been studied. Now all those researchers are being declared idiots, because we just found the miracle cloth against virus.

  21. This post has been deleted by a moderator

  22. sharpwolverine

    Public health experts wonder what took so long

    The amount of money they were loosing because of the COVID deniers finally got to high and was starting to eat into profits.

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