back to article Microsoft does and doesn't require VMs to meet hardware requirements for Windows 11

Microsoft emitted a fresh build of Windows 11 last night, and piled on the woe for some customers hoping that virtual machines might be their way out of the hardware compatibility hole. Despite Microsoft's efforts to distract users by showing off its updates to the Photos app – now rolling out to users in the Windows Insider …

  1. Foxglove
    Devil

    Interesting link to the Photos App...

    I wonder if that page was written by a 9 year old nephew of someone on the team?

    It includes the following wonders:

    Pumped to share

    This includes rounded corners

    Mica material

    super easy

    “heart” your favorites

    whimsy of Picsart

    Yup, all sure signs of a a professional organisation wanting to look after their customers.

    1. Warm Braw Silver badge

      Re: Interesting link to the Photos App...

      Microsoft appears to have positioned (consumer) Windows as a desktop substitute for Android/iOS and to have decided that the future of its development tools is on Linux.

      Given that consumers in those circumstances will probably prefer iOS and that there's no obvious rationale for Windows Server in this picture, you do have to wonder if they've thought this through.

      1. gerdesj Silver badge

        Re: Interesting link to the Photos App...

        "iOS and that there's no obvious rationale for Windows Server"

        Do tell us about your iOS servers.

        1. martyn.hare

          Re: Interesting link to the Photos App...

          I think the comment was referring to how Linux is becoming the server OS of choice for Microsoft going forward and honestly it wouldn’t surprise me. They dropped Nano Server for physical installs, dropped Semi-Annual Channel releases altogether and have been walling off new features as Azure only with every release.

          Even their darling Office 365 is only truly built for a Windows 10 Terminal Server, which they coincidentally only licence for Azure platforms, despite the code and SKU showing up as licensable options within the traditional desktop releases (assuming you look at DISM output)

          With all that said, we are not too far off P2P hosting becoming the norm, with a combination of high-bandwidth links IPv6 slowly becoming the norm. So it’s not completely in feasible that for some purposes, iOS/Android could very well serve up data…

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Interesting link to the Photos App...

            You can already use Android as a server in certain circumstances.

            I have an app on a phone called "Servers Ultimate Pro" that lets me spin up virtually anything.

            I regularly use it for surragate DNS/DHCP if I have to take a server offline temporarily to ensure users don't get interrupted.

            I wouldn't use it as a full time production level service but as a temporary stop gap, it's absolutely perfect and seamless. Just whack a USB ethernet adapter into your phone and off you go.

            Why not use a Raspberry Pi or <insert SBC here> I hear you cry. Well it's because a lot of phones are more powerful than quite a lot of SBCs and they come with a built in screen, battery and can charge off a USB socket on a server without stability issues and current problems and I can use a tethered phone to provide temporary internet etc over 4G/5G if I need to without any extra components.

            Faffing around with routers/servers is way less stressful if everyone can crack on with stuff without interruption.

            1. John Robson Silver badge

              Re: Interesting link to the Photos App...

              Phone wins hands down because you always have it on you…

      2. Pascal Monett Silver badge

        Re: you do have to wonder if they've thought this through

        What ?

        Borkzilla think ?

        You are overly generous, my good sir.

        Borkzilla does not think. It throws stuff at the wall and charges anything that sticks.

    2. LDS Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: Interesting link to the Photos App...

      Probably they know what the average user became today. I just wonder why they didn't wrote also you can tik one photo and then tok another....

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I've never understood the American terminology 'Pumped'.

      Is it meant to be some sort of reference to Viagra?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I've never understood the American terminology 'Pumped'.

        https://dilbert.com/strip/1993-02-27

      2. Zarno Silver badge

        Re: I've never understood the American terminology 'Pumped'.

        Sir Austin Danger Powers KBE has a book on the subject. It's totally his bag.

        NSFW, DuckDuckGo or Google at own risk.

        Not liable for keyboards covered in tea, coffee, Pibb Xtra, marmite, or tunafish as result of checking.

    4. Sil

      Re: Interesting link to the Photos App...

      Whith Panos Panay,

      Microsoft is unfortunately going full Apple on the marketing BS.

    5. Dynasoar

      Re: Interesting link to the Photos App...

      Mica material ? safe as houses. Houses made out of Weetabix that is. With a €3.2Bn repair bill. https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/1008/1252595-mica-at-a-glance/

  2. Infi 1

    Windows 10 made me quite happy I'd moved to Linux for my daily driver. Windows 11 sounds like it's continuing the theme, but at least it's shiny!

    1. martyn.hare

      All major OSes suck

      Linux distros can and do drop support for hardware even when it makes no sense. Look at Red Hat and Xen PV support for example, which forced folks to get hardware with VT-x just to keep their virtualisation stack going. Or when Ubuntu thought it would be great to ditch encrypted home directories in favour of full disk encryption for no good reason, forcing people to make sure their CPUs shipped with AES-NI to avoid performance truly tanking.

      Pro tip: Pick a system which does what you need it to do and plan ahead that the hardware will be obsolete before 7 years have passed. Also, assume any software you have today could be gone tomorrow and plan for continuity accordingly.

      aaS vendors will only accelerate obsolescence…

      1. katrinab Silver badge
        Happy

        Re: All major OSes suck

        My pair of 9 year old Ivy Bridge i7-3770s are still very capable machines, and actually still faster than some new computers sold today.

        1. geekguy

          Re: All major OSes suck

          Sandybridge 2700k here and its still a great day to day machine.

        2. TheProf Silver badge
          Joke

          Re: All major OSes suck

          "actually still faster than some new computers sold today."

          Probably more powerful than the computers that put men on the moon too.

          1. katrinab Silver badge
            Happy

            Re: All major OSes suck

            Waaaaaaay more powerful than the computers that put men on the moon. That was equivalent to a Pentium 90.

        3. oiseau Silver badge
          Thumb Up

          Re: All major OSes suck

          My pair of 9 year old Ivy Bridge i7-3770s are still very capable machines ...

          There you go !!!! 8^D

          My ca. 2007 Sun Ultra24 on a Q9550 + 8Gb RAM runs Linux Devuan Beowulf and a couple of VMs without issues.

          O.

        4. hazard

          Re: All major OSes suck

          They are !!!!!

          Some folks would be jealous that you had i7's.....NOT Microsoft though. They chew you up and spit you out like rancid fruit x

      2. runt row raggy

        Re: All major OSes suck

        xen pv is fundamentally unsafe after spectre/meltdown in that the guest is cannot effectively isolate processes from each other.

      3. elsergiovolador Silver badge

        Re: All major OSes suck

        This is Linux, you can support missing features yourself. If you think Red Hat made a mistake, you can create your own version and even you could make money if the market judges indeed it was a blunder on the head covering business.

        1. werdsmith Silver badge

          Re: All major OSes suck

          No, I can't. I don't have the capability to create my own or the time if I did, nor the money to pay someone else to do it.

    2. Phil Kingston
      Linux

      Linux users are like vegans - just can't wait to tell people.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Conversely,

        MS users after eating their 'eleven' Happy Meals, you can tell at lot about sources of bloat, from analysing turds. I've had my fill with Windows 11 already.

        I genuinely can't believe MS can get the marketing so wrong with Windows 11 and still, their CMO remains in his job. Clearly, that's what happens when there is an endless supply of advertising and marketing money, that keeps backing the failed design concept, that is Windows 11.

        It offers absolutely nothing to the end user of Windows 10, more pointless churn/landfill for the sake of it.

      2. cyberdemon Silver badge
        Devil

        Re: Linux Linux users are like vegans

        When people are so stuck-in-their-ways and resistant to change that even when they know they are suffering and there is a better alternative, they won't try the alternative - It's because of a fear of the unknown, fear of looking stupid, etc. They get very irate when someone tries to convince them about an alternative lifestyle, as if it's an assault on their identity.

        I'm like you - I like my red meat, and i'm apparently happy to die at the 'normal' age from heart attack/cancer/stroke, and I fully understand the impact that meat production has on the world, and that farming is unsustainable etc.

        And yet, it irks me when some smug vegan comes along and tells me the Error of my Ways. I KNOW all of that, but apparently my brain is preconditioned to think that juicy steaks are tasty. And to agree with the vegan and change my ways is to agree that my pre-conditioned brain is stupid and a parasite on the world.

        But, at least I run Linux, and have done so for 20 years (debian sid all the way), so at least i'm not feeding that monster that is microsoft any more.

        And secretly I hope that someone could help me improve myself in various ways, without insulting my past self too much.

        So there you go. If you did try Linux years ago and found that it wasn't for you: Try it again. Much has changed. KDE is really fucking good these days. Game support is awesome via steam & proton. Wine runs the vast majority of windows apps, those that don't there are workarounds for, especially if you are not afraid to ask.

        The best thing about Linux is that the software works for YOU, not for someone else. It isn't spying on you, it isn't trying to monetise you by nudging you towards sponsored thoughts. It doesn't foist things on you that you haven't asked for. It does exactly what you command it to. And there is always a way around any problem.

        But if you're a seasoned Active Directory admin, .NET developer or HR exec, then I'm sorry but there's no way to save you. You're going straight to Hell.

    3. Michael Habel Silver badge

      Windows (H)8, was the downfall of MicroSoft, and they have yet to bounce back to the greatness of XP / Vista / 7. Linux while somewhat useable, has only further my apprciation of all things Unix. e.g. I have since switched to useing a Mac,. or Hackintosh if I were being honest, here.

      1. The First Dave

        "the greatness of .. Vista ..." !

        No further comment

        1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge
          Childcatcher

          re: the greatness of .. Vista "

          compared to the pile of steaming bovine excrement that W11 is turning out to be... Vista wasn't that bad. At least it didn't have a very long shelf life before W7 arrived and things got a whole lot better. Since then (IMHO) it has been downhill all the way.

          To bork running it in a WM is just the latest footgun moment from MS.

          I'll bet a lot of IT departments are thinking hard about alternatives to W11 right now.

  3. demon driver

    Obscure

    For what it's worth, at build 22000.168, my Windows 11 installation (which is in a VirtualBox VM on an old but still very usable Thinkpad X220T running Linux) was kicked out of Microsoft's Insider Program when bare metal installations were, too, for hardware requirements not being met, but updates seem to come in nonetheless. Just received 2021-09 cumulative update KB5005635 which updates to build 22000.194.

  4. Anoymous Coward

    All Hail Windows 10, the new XP

    Windows XP survived as a popular OS for over a decade after it was superceeded because it was better than most of its successors.

    Windows 10 will survive as a popular OS to 2040 and beyond because of the millions of devices running it that fall outside the supported upgrade path to Windows 11.

    I still have an Acer lappie purchased in 2007 that was upgraded with a SSD and now runs Windows 10 just as well as any 4GB lappie you could buy today. It is heavier than a modern lappie but I will probably continue using it while it works, or maybe pass it on to a charity.

    Millions of other people have similar stories, and they will still be telling them in 15 years time. An old OS does not stop getting used just because a new one is available, it stops getting used when the hardware it runs on dies.

    All hail Windows 10 and the security issues it will bring to millions over the next 2 decades who cannot upgrade from it!

    1. Michael Habel Silver badge

      Re: All Hail Windows 10, the new XP

      Only IF! --- MicroSoft will let you. Kinda makes me wonder will Windows XI return the the old Home / Pro / Ultimate tiers, or will the Free, as an Beer model remain in place?

  5. 89724102172714182892114I7551670349743096734346773478647892349863592355648544996312855148587659264921 Bronze badge

    Fscking hell I'm sticking to Windows XP

  6. LDS Silver badge
    Big Brother

    Will the new app stop installing "Photos Media Engine Add-on" without your approval?

    I'm quite tired of uninstalling it every time I need to give a quick look to an image. Or maybe it will have it integrated so you can't avoid your images to be analyzed by Microsoft?

    Anyway it looks they have to design and re-design apps continuously - like the screenshots one - as they can't design a good one from scratch anymore.

    1. Jou (Mxyzptlk)

      Re: Will the new app stop installing "Photos Media Engine Add-on" without your approval?

      They never could "from scratch". Microsoft is known to do many things half-assed since its existence, and that has not changed much. The actual OS below the surface got quite stable in the course of 35+ years, but the UI components not. Explorer is still prone to crash, inconsistency in the usage and so on.

      My biggest annoyance is the constant officiousness - part of the UI.

  7. mark l 2 Silver badge

    its clear that MS are just making up these requirements as they go along, and if there aren't enough people upgrading when Windows 11 eventually drops, they will back track on all the TPM and CPU requirements to get more installs so 11 doesn't become another Vista / Win 8

    1. Lipdorn

      One can hope.

      1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

        Why hope, I for one am not exactly looking forward to a forced upgrade to Windows 11, I don't think it is an improvement.

    2. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Didn't we all convince ourselves that MS would remove the telemetry when Windows 10 final came out? Instead they backported it to 7 and 8.1.

      So I wouldn't hold your breath for them to remove the TPM requirement. Consider yourself lucky if they don't backport it to 10.

      1. Michael Habel Silver badge

        Wasn't it already a req in WinX? Could have sworn that it was, at one time, or other. I think this might have been the Ship Op was looking for, and sailed away with the launch of WinX.

    3. geekguy

      fact is half the population of windows aren't going to be forced to upgrade their machines, the requirements are quite insane ! Fact is these should be features you can enable, not are forced to have

      1. Michael Habel Silver badge
        Mushroom

        But, how else can die Mutti-stadt get a hard ID on you? I take it you dislike on-line cheaters, well with TPM, these Devs, can now bam 'em at the Hardware ID level, so that once baned they will never be able to play that game ever again.

        Just imagine if the RI / MP --AA Laywers had this kiond of ammo twenty odd years ago. these TPMs are compleatly the bee knickers.

    4. Michael Habel Silver badge

      Is no one else concerned that there are Venders, acutually pusing this TPM BS, as a means of Hardware Identifacation. Example perma-banning users in Multiplayer Games, whom were accused of possible cheating. Where exactly does this invasion, end? How will States like China, or Europe both of whom "fully rescpect your free speach" NOT! will find a way to hone in on this info to zero in on those who would dare to speak ill of such things, as migration, how these migrants are not getting vaccinated, or how the vaccination, has caused them to suddely get cancer a year or so down the road?

      Just exactly whos watching this watchman TPM? Perhaps it maks sence in the world of the coporates, I find seemingly little use for it myself.

    5. hazard

      I'd rather they backtrack on the CPU position as opposed to the TPM position being frank.

  8. Mike 137 Silver badge

    Forget software for the moment - study grammar

    '"this build includes a change that aligns the enforcement of the Windows 11 system requirements on Virtual Machines (VMs) to be the same as it is for physical PCs"'

    " this will have an impact to aspects of the user experience "

    Getting software right is to a great extent a matter of attention to detail. It might inspire a bit of confidence in their ability to achieve that if they could at least cope with something as simple as expressing simple concepts such as these grammatically.

    1. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Unhappy

      Re: Forget software for the moment - study grammar

      Translation:

      Iffen zie triun der runnin of 11 onner boxen verboten, und der virtual boxen specificallen, zie hammer makken und kopfen bangun uber allen zu blinken lights gehappen. (and they'll take away your birthday and whack your, uh, thingun).

      Not only does Micros~1 tell you WHAT toys you MUST get, they ALSO tell you HOW to play with them and WHAT KIND OF SANDBOX TO USE, and PREVENT you from using ANY other kind!!!

  9. WolfFan Silver badge

    Yeah, well…

    None, zero, of the Windows machines at home can run Win11, they are a combination of too old (3rd to 7th gen CPUs) and lacking TPM 2. (They either don’t have a TPM or are 1.2) There are probably other problems. I will not be upgrading to Win 11 at home. At the office, almost all machines have TPM 1.2, and most Windows units have 6th or 7th gen CPUs. We’ll not be going Win 11 at the office, either. We have a large number of Macs and some Linux systems, mostly Ubuntu. I see an increase in the number of both. I see some people at the office continuing to hold onto Win 7 and even XP units for as long as they can. (Strangely, no-one wants to hold onto Win 8.x units. Imagine that.) We are due to replace a few of the older units at the office, and at home, soon. I see an iMac in my future at home, and built-to-order machines, WITHOUT A WINDOWS INSTALL, at the office.

    Apple and assorted Linux vendors should send flowers to Microsoft in thanks for the sales.

    1. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Unhappy

      Re: Yeah, well…

      AND... this may motivate me to FINALLY stop renewing MSDN - for I will NOT be able to run ANYTHING without virtualbox support.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Sounds like Windows 11 is shaping up to be another vista or Windows 8.

    I'll give it a miss for as long as I can.

    1. Michael Habel Silver badge

      Haters will hate, but Vista, was a great OS, and could have only gotten better, had MicroSoft managed to release SP3 for it. honestly though I'd rather have Vista then WinX, or XI.

      1. Def Silver badge
        Headmaster

        They did release SP3. It was called Windows 7.

  11. DJV Silver badge

    TPM / appraiserres.dll

    Microsoft try to restrict you, then someone comes along a shows how to bypass their stupid pointless tricks: https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/bypass-tpm-secure-boot-check-on-win-11-install/.

    I'm running 11 in VMWare Player and got the dreaded TPM 2.0 requirement when trying to upgrade to 22458 - the above fix (deleting appraiserres.dll) worked for me. I didn't even bother to replace it with the Win 10 version. Of course, YMMV.

  12. deaglecat

    W11 is just too much hassle...

    To be honest. I have just given up on all this stuff. It is a hot mess of their own making.

    The strange hardware cut offs coupled with the Ads and the Telemetry. The unwanted feature upgrades and unwanted application installs.

    Windows is no longer my daily driver... just too much hassle now.

    Ubuntu and derivatives are now good enough... just work and Steam gives good games compatibility.

  13. Robert Grant Silver badge

    This may sound crazy, but

    Why not just launch when it's ready? It's an OS; even if you only started preparing marketing after it's ready it wouldn't matter. It's a free upgrade that will no doubt be prompted to Windows 10 users and admins anyway.

    1. ThatOne Silver badge
      Stop

      Re: This may sound crazy, but

      > Why not just launch when it's ready?

      You're suggesting tech types have the power, and marketing just tags along? Heresy! OMG!

      Marketing is the power which makes the (corporate) world go round, tech types are only there because, well, you need someone to do the dirty work.

    2. David Austin

      Re: This may sound crazy, but

      Current dev build does not feel like a release candidate 3 weeks away from launch; It's stable (Thanks to it's Windows 10 core), but the UI has so many holes and bugs. My personal favourite is drag and drop via the taskbar does not work, which is currently has 4500 votes and #WontFix in the Insider feedback channel.

      Windows 11, Hardware requirements aside, has potential, but I can't see me using it for production or business use until the 22H2 version, much like Windows 10 Anniversary Edition.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: This may sound crazy, but

        #WontFix is actually not just a solution to bug problems, but a strategic choice: The goal for Windows is to become like Android, wildly successful despite limited user freedom and extensive monetization capacities.

        Why sell them Kobe beef when they happily eat meat trimmings?

        1. Robert Grant Silver badge

          Re: This may sound crazy, but

          What phone OS are you comparing Android to that has more user freedoms?

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: This may sound crazy, but

            Not a phone OS (there is none), just desktop ones. I said "Android" like I could have said "iOS", just to give an example.

            Can you freely access and control the filesystem, configure or fine-tune the OS itself? Or are you put in a playpen, and everything else is a black box? "Good" OSes give the user access to the inner workings; I'm thinking obviously *nix, but also Windows till Win7.

            Now I admit that's a power user problem, common people don't need or want that usually. Problem is power users get increasingly common, and not only among the IT crowd. Just saying.

    3. Kubla Cant Silver badge

      Re: This may sound crazy, but

      Why not just launch when it's ready?

      Because they'd never launch it.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Because they'd never launch it.

        Indeed. MS has to get it out of Alpha release first. We all know that Windows Releases are the Beta Test editions.

        Currently, W11 has more holes than a colander. My Grandson is close to junking it, it is that bad and he's a long time Windows devotee.

        I just sit by watching him struggle to get even simple things done properly with my (GOAM smug git face on)

  14. Snapper

    WTAF!

    "Microsoft warned of continuing issues with the new Start Menu and Taskbar"

    HOW long have they had these relatively simple processes in Winblows? I assume 'continuing issues' means they can't find the bugs?

    3rd rate company with 3rd rate software written by 3rd rate software minions.

    1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

      Re: WTAF!

      3rd rate company with 3rd rate software written by 3rd rate software minions.

      I am afraid you are being overly generous, more like 5th rate company with 5th rate software written by 5th rate software minions (and I might still be accused of being generous at that).

      1. Michael Habel Silver badge

        Re: WTAF!

        Witten by 5th graders in Mrs. Tompsons BASIC Class.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: WTAF!

      Remember, the start menu isn't just a menu anymore. It's a complex piece of data gathering software that has to be able to send everything you do back to Microsoft.

  15. andrewmm

    Virtual TPM is evidently possible,

    https://docs.vmware.com/en/VMware-vSphere/7.0/com.vmware.vsphere.security.doc/GUID-3D39CBA6-E5B2-43E2-A596-B9A69B094558.html

    They "just" have to port it from EFS to VirtualBox

    1. Ken Hagan Gold badge

      Re: Virtual TPM is evidently possible,

      And "they" are working on it: https://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=103946

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Can't even install windows 10

    I've a work laptop exactly the same as two others that will not install the latest windows 10. M$ keeps downloading and attempting to install the update. I've had enough with the pushed updates that just waste my time again and again.

  17. glnz

    Well, can I run it in Hyper-V with only TPM 1.2 in the hardware ????

    I'm not a tech, so basic question: Can I run Win 11 in Hyper-V, which is in my Win 10 Pro 64-bit v. 21H1 on a Dell Optiplex 7010 with only TPM 1.2 that I haven't ever turned on?

    Thanks.

  18. DavidYorkshire

    Just checked my test VM. Hosted on a ten year old Poweredge, running Hyper-V Server 2016. TPM is version 2 and enabled on the VM, but the CPU is not supported.

    VM is now on build 22000.194, and still seems to be working at the moment - no messages about unsupported harware.

    1. hazard

      Be prepared.....

  19. steviebuk Silver badge

    They are asking...

    ...for Windows 11 to be a failure it would seem.

    That is my prediction. It will fail like Vista and the gang did. Maybe not because it is bad, but due to the TPM chip bullshit requirement.

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Just feels like Microsoft are gas lighting their customers.

    This is one hell of an abusive relationship, at work.

    Like other abusive relationships, the only way to stop getting hit in the face is to leave.

    Leopards don't change their spots.

  21. Binraider Silver badge

    Have you not got the hint yet. MS doesn’t want you as a customer if you aren’t caught in the splash cash on an regular upgrade type.

    You know what you need to do. Other OS are available.

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What's Microsoft going to do if everyone just stays on Windows 10?

    Maybe, they'll actually finish the Control Panel/Settings so they are consistent, and in one place.

    Windows 10 is still 'work in progress', if you hadn't noticed, Microsoft.

    1. hazard

      Re: What's Microsoft going to do if everyone just stays on Windows 10?

      I doubt it.

      We've had MANY releases of Windows 10 1508, 1609, 1703.... and it's still not even 50% done.....

      A bit like.....

  23. Zippy´s Sausage Factory
    Unhappy

    This feels familiar

    The phrase "Windows ain't done until Virtual Box don't run" popped into my mind reading this. A bit too close to the old "DOS ain't done until Lotus don't run" to be comfortable for me.

  24. Wolfclaw

    My daily driver is AMD and supports TPM2, it's switched off, so no forced upgrade to Windows 11 Bork As A Service Edition !

  25. Blackjack Silver badge

    Hi, it looks you want me to keep using Windows 10, do you want help with that?

  26. Tron Bronze badge

    Microsoft are going all out to put people off upgrading.

    And we should commend them for this. I drew a graph and if my calculations are correct, by 2032, nobody will update Windows. Not even Microsoft employees. There will be an entire industry providing hacks to avoid it, directly erasing the code in Windows that requires it or undertakes compatibility checks.

  27. Uncle Ron

    Any Idea

    If I (or anybody I have read) had even the slightest tiny crumb of an idea that this nonsense MS is putting us through would end (or even help) the security crisis the entire universe of Windows installations goes through each and every day, I would scrap my entire home network of machines and "upgrade" the HW tomorrow. But it won't. TPM will NOT stop the malware, virus-ware, hackers, ransomers, scam artists and evil doers out there--even a little. Minutes after "11" gets entrenched, they'll be new threats and bugs and back doors, and whatever, and all that will happen is that PC manufactures will get a windfall of orders. Plus, us users will have a Mt. Everest of work to do setting up new machines. This crap MS is putting us through is simply ridiculous. When "security" support for 10 ends, I'm going to Linux. Probably equally as much work, but I will no longer have to worry about stupid people making me buy new machines for no reason whatsoever.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Any Idea

      One of the troubles is that most of the world's IT departments know Windows, and so the pain is a prerequisite to job security.

  28. hazard

    Computer Says No

    Flight Major Here

    I have a TPM 2.0 on my speedy i7-7600 HP Envy 17 (128gb m2nvme +1TB HDD + Intel HD620+TPM2.0) but, unfortunately, Microsoft ended my illustrious Flight Career on Insider Preview when they made my 2017/2018 laptop "exempt" due to being series 7 CPU. The fact that I have a fully working TPM2.0 does not cut it, apparently.

    One suspects there is more to this than meets the eye. But one cannot comment for fear of Intel and Microsoft kicking the door in at 5am.

    1. Ken Hagan Gold badge

      Re: Computer Says No

      There certainly is slightly more. TPM isn't the only hardware requirement and someone (https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/08/why-windows-11-has-such-strict-hardware-requirements-according-to-microsoft/) made an argument a while back (August) about how cohesive the new requirements were. For example:

      "If it supports MBEC, generally, it's in. If it doesn't, it's out. MBEC support is only included in relatively new processors, starting with the Kaby Lake and Skylake-X architectures on Intel's side, and the Zen 2 architecture on AMD's side—this matches pretty closely, albeit not exactly, with the Windows 11 processor support lists."

      A few things have changed since then, apparently motivated by the uproar rather than any technical objectives. I suspect that the original driver for these requirements was purely technical (getting rid of some clunky legacy code and enabling everyone to take new processor features as given) but that ever since the marketing folks got wind of it the requirements have been watered down and it is fast becoming just an arbitrary list of randomness.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Computer Says No

        Will Win11 and the hassles that it's already producing for end-users be the version that convinces the folks in the corner offices at Microsoft that they need to begin selling appliances that do nothing but act as "smart" terminals to their Azure-based applications? [ducks]

  29. stewwy

    I think I'll wait until windows 12

    History has taught us that M$ has 2 development teams and this is not the good team.

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