How do I opt users out of this "upgrade" ?
Some simple registry key ?
Microsoft has named October 5 as rollout day for Windows 11, though the IT giant's determination to support only relatively recent hardware will limit adoption. General manager Aaron Woodman posted the new date, and said that it is "the first version of a new era of Windows," highlighting its refreshed design, new Microsoft …
If you're in a business that's Microsoft based then you just hand the entire problem over to IT -- they provide the computer, they make everything work and they're responsible for dealing with any problems.
Meanwhile you use a more realistic system to get actual work done. There are programs that allow you to use your super-spiffy but generally useless Windows system as a terminal (preferably not VNC, though). Computers are cheap and these rollouts typically involve a lot of junking of older but otherwise perfectly usable kit so there's plenty of opportunity to get your hands on a spare system.
Obviously if the company's dumb enough to mandate using Windows despite everything then just find another job. Or just go with the flow, do what you can but make sure you systematically document any problems and interactions with IT so that when the schedule ordure hits the air mover you've got your rear suitably covered.
(NB -- I'm a developer of embedded applications so I have all sorts of needs that don't fit into the traditional IT model.)
"Now to install MS Office all the software that actual businesses use to actually run"
None of the businesses I consult for run MS-anything. Why do you think MS is necessary, when it is quite clear that reality says otherwise? Is it a religious thing for you?
"(and maybe a few recent games)"
Playing games at work? You're fired.
Nice anecdote. I've got one too.
All of the businesses I consult for run MS-something. From insurance brokerages to tool & mold shops to non-profits that teach... they've all got something that requires Windows. Sure, some of what they do has FOSS equivalents. But with my customer base there's always that one thing that interfaces with a milling machine, or tracks donations, or does EDI to the national secure network for their industry.
Can some industries do without Windows? Absolutely. Content-production being a huge category of them. Advertising firms, video production firms, billboard designers, music studios, newspapers. Sure. But the other guys? The smaller but more numerous guys? No. Because the software the auto-makers provide body-shop repair companies to look up panel parts and paint codes and industry-standard billing estimates... Windows first.
Understand... I absolutely do not guide my customers' purchases. I don't push Windows. They tell me what milling machine they just ordered from Germany and what the installer wants for a controller PC. They tell me what heating & cooling system they bought for their new gallery and what the manufacturer's software requires. They tell me what cargo truck scheduling and routing software their customers demand them to use. They tell me what the performance tracking software for the treadmills they bought for their gym uses for their patrons. Windows, Windows, and more Windows.
Sorry, but in the small & medium business segment there are plenty of markets that are mandatory Windows ones. The folks suggesting "just install Linux and LibreOffice" are missing the point that it's all the other stuff that integrates with Office that invalidates that idea.
> (and maybe a few recent games) ...
What games? There will be a Proton release, or Lutris extension which handles it. Linux will even running EA's shitty fucking Origin "service".
Just because YOU do not know how to do it, does not mean it cannot be done.
Had a game released back in July that had no issues under Linux. Game back from 2020 that ran with no issues. A few older ones that ran without issues as well.
Hell, the only game I have ran into that has issues with Linux, is the Linux version of Black Mesa.
If you have a PC that meets W11 requirements but do NOT want it to automatically update to W11 but want to stay on W10 then the procedure is:
1. turn off Windows Update so that your W10 machine never updates automatically
2. manually download the W10 security etc updates each month or whatever from the Microsoft Update Catalogue and apply them manually.
You can pick which OS build you’re targeting using GPO, LGPO, MDM or plain old registry key changes provided you’re using Windows 10 Pro. That’s assuming you want a secure environment until EOL for any given build.
For people who want it to stop auto-updating without losing the ability to grab on-demand repairs, antivirus updates and necessary compatibility fixes on the fly, you can script the pause of updates because it too is just a registry key and is very easy to have a scheduled task fire a script as SYSTEM to pause it with (date+29 days).
Want it off off? There’s a GPO or LGPO to remove access to all Windows Update features. That turns it off off on Windows 10 Pro, even blocking manual updates, on demand downloads and Windows Defender engine updates.
There. You can turn it off. Enough said!
Yes you can turn off Windows Update (and turn it on again)
1. disable the Medic Service. Either set Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\WaaSMedicSvc to '4' or take ownership of the .dll and erase it
2. then you can turn the WU service on and off as you wish
OK all the snark about FOSS, Linux, etc. is all well and good (and even expected, these are the El Reg forums, after all). And I actually do have Linux on my main machine. But my music machine requires Windows (well, the machine itself by no means requires Windows, but the applications that run on it certainly do). It is an 8th gen i5, and so may well be in the crosshairs of a Micros~1 forced-march into their revenue stream.
So let me rephrase Tom Chiverton 1's original question:
How do I opt users who must remain Windows users (may ghod have mercy on their souls) out of this "upgrade"?
Easy on the snark, and heavy on factual, useful info, please...
Why do you think your music "requires" Windows? I have no issues with music on Linux (including production), and haven't for a long time now.
 Other than the underlying code being aesthetically ugly ... if we ever have the time, my daughter and I might make it our job to pretty it up a bit as a learning tool for her daughter.
I've grown tired of trying to get through to these people that, pretty much with the exception of video thanks to DaVinci Resolve, "Linux" and "content creation" DO NOT COMPUTE.
But they continue to live in denial. I'm gong to get downvoted hard, but these people don't DO hard-core content creation yet want to tell those who do that they, somehow, "know better".
Windows Server makes for a excellent DAW operating system.
Steinberg Cubase works a treat on Server 2016, 2019.
As does Reaper and Ableton.
Server doesn't have any of the latency sapping B/S you find in the W10/W11, plus you get ReFS which works well for a recording computer.
I've no doubt 2022 will be the same.
It's on the LTSC (or whatever its called now), so no feature updates, only patches + AV updates.
I have RME interfaces in my 3x DAW machines. They work a treat. Very low latency.
Windows 11 has Secure Boot as one of its requirements. Windows 10 does not care.
If you disable Secure Boot in the BIOS then at least the first few rounds of Windows Update should not try to downgrade your system to Windows 11.
(M$ may find too many people use this escape route and remove the Secure Boot requirement sometime in the future.)
Icon for what should happen to the M$ staff who keep tinkering with the UI rather than trying to fix the myriad of bugs in every windows release. ========>
Just don't approve it in WSUS or whatever you use for patch management.
I set up an extra group for trying out the new releases and Windows 11 will go the same way. It will be blocked for a majority of users and only released to a test group, once we are ready to look at it. Once it runs fine with the test group, we then gradually add other machines to the Windows 11 upgrade group, until all (eligible) PCs have been upgraded.
"Scrap a PC that otherwise works well, or stick with Windows 10"
Or perhaps put up-to-date and modern Slackware or BSD on it and just use the bloody thing until it falls apart, and THEN scrap it. Unless you enjoy throwing away perfectly good tools just because a multi-billion dollar international marketing company's advertising tells you to, of course, in which case carry on, consumer.
A lot of my day-to-day business is easily handled by a near 18 tear old HP laptop running Slackware-current and the recent LibreOffice. The rest is run from a similar era desktop. Neither machine has ever given me any trouble.
To you nay-sayers: How much money has running Redmond products cost you in the last nearly twenty years? Make sure you include the cost of waiting on updates, recovering from crashes, unnecessary reboots, hardware upgrades (or replacements) when MS rolls a rev., malware problems, and all the other bits and bobs that waste your time and money.
It continues to amaze me that the Corporate World still lets the thing in the door ...
My 2009 Sony Vaio Core i7 no additional series number, 1st generation, is still happily running Mint Linux and works just fine (since I put an SSD in a couple of years back).
I use it as a backup PC, but it works just fine. I also have a Pi 400, which is fun.
Tossing up, whether to put openSUSE or Manjaro on my main PC at the moment.
Interesting how the horrible Windows 10 that had everyone all up in arms (and rightly so) has suddenly become the "good old" Windows 10, now that an even worse Windows has darkened our collective doorstep. I wonder how bad Windows 12 will have to be to make Windows 11 look reasonable by contrast!
It was the same with Windows 9x, Windows 2000, Windows XP and Windows 7.
People don't like change, and when change is forced upon them, that thing they've been slagging off for half a decade is suddenly the bee's knees and needs to be kept at all costs.
XP was a pile of poop, when it was released. It was a security nightmare until SP2 came along. Then, people were used to using it for so long that many fought to keep it, when Vista and Windows 7 came along. The same with 7 going to 10.
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Snark aside - as far as I've been able to discover, there aren't any substantial upgrades under the hood. It just seems to be a skin update, with added TPM/UEFI malarky.
I suppose it's possible that this is scene-setting for some actual future useful upgrade, but if it is, MS aren't letting on.
If you are interested in the security and integrity of your Windows installation, the upgrade brings some (minor) benefits to evil maid style attacks or malware installing bootloaders or rootkits, but apart from that...
Oh, new, must have shiny shiny, you can't forget that!
Mine's the one with a selection of live distro USB-sticks in the pocket.
The trusted computing malarky actually exists in Windows 10, but it has all been optional so far. If you have new enough hardware with HVCI compatible drivers, you can use it today. All Windows 11 does it make it all mandatory.
As to if those new security features are actually useful and worth the cost, that's debatable. There are plenty of articles regarding HVCI that discuss the pros and cons.
Having been an insider tester for the last month, the one feature I though was interesting - the ability to run Android apps on the desktop - has been removed from the launch version of Windows 11.
Other than that, at the moment it's basically Windows 10 with a different (has potential, but rough at the moment) User Interface.
Get the feeling this is the push it out the door and get it done version, and the 22H2 version of Windows 11 will be different and stable enough to warrant another look.
well, as far as Lenovo goes, some models that were announced around Jan 2021 and supposed to become available in spring. This was moved to 'looks like June / June', which was then moved to "September, hopefully". So... good luck with October :)
My one remaining Redmond computer runs Win2K, which is in my mind peak Microsoft.
The only reason I run it is because I used AutoCAD2K to document this place and a couple others, and have seen no need to "upgrade" ... like Win2K, ACAD2K is peak AutoDesk. On the rare occasion that I need it, the twenty year old box runs LibreOffice adequately.
The system is airgapped.
I know of several other businesses that keep Win2K around for various reasons.
Windows XP was a pig, compared to 2000. And the Fisher Price user interface never made me feel like it was a professional operating system.
I actually jumped to Linux for my main desktop at that time. Keeping a PC in the corner for 1 game and checking Office documents that I needed to send out to customers. Then to OS X, then back to Windows 7... Now I'm looking at starting the cycle again.
Windows 11 was announced in late June, and it's already out in October? I understand that it's actually little more than Windows 10.1 under the hood, but this is still unexpected when compared to previous releases. I guess they think they'll iterate on stuff when feedback from their testers (and by testers I mean their users) reaches critical mass.
"swore left and right that Windows 1 0 was going to be the last version"
You have a source for that statement?
Or are you refereeing to that one statement one Microsoft employee made once that probably was just badly worded and should have meant "latest Windows" but that certain Media people are referring to over and over again?
Unfortunately, we didn't see Microsoft come out and deny it either. They let the rumour circulate without issuing a clarification.
Just about every company will issue a clarification or response to rumours, particularly if they could be seen as damaging to the company. Even NASA was forced to respond to the truly fucking ludicrous rumour that they were operating a child sex/torture/cannibalistic-death camp on Mars for the Democrats.
The fact they didn't do this, means MS share as much of je blame, as the media quoting the one guy repeatedly.
I think he's referring to those farts from the top MS echelons about how, in this / current day & age of [monetizing the service path], Windows is going to be with us, for ever and ever, as [smoothly, unnoticeably, rotfl] self-upgradable service. waas or something
Damn, that Google search is good (1st hit), there goes from some 'MS employee' :
"The Windows 10 operating system introduces a new way to build, deploy, and service Windows: Windows as a service. Microsoft has reimagined each part of the process, to simplify the lives of IT pros and maintain a consistent Windows 10 experience for its customers.
Prior to Windows 10, Microsoft released new versions of Windows every few years.
oh, and this gem:
Device compatibility in Windows 10 is also very strong; new hardware is not needed for Windows 10 as any device capable of running Windows 7 or later can run Windows 10. In fact, the minimum hardware requirements to run Windows 10 are the same as those required for Windows 7. Most hardware drivers that functioned in Windows 8.1, Windows 8, or Windows 7 will continue to function in Windows 10.
- but that was 'then', and the latest (in a loooong series of) MS-generated problems is now, eh.
Windows is going to be with us, for ever and ever, as [smoothly, unnoticeably, rotfl] self-upgradable service. waas or something
waas == "Windows, as always, shit"
Microsoft has reimagined each part of the process, to simplify the lives of IT pros and maintain a consistent Windows 10 experience for its customers.
Well, that explains why "Windows 11", because if they were to make this release under the Windows 10 moniker, that would lend the lie to this statement.
Not that anyone really believes Micros~1 doesn't lie...
"but does appear to work as it is supposed to."
"Supposed to" is relative. According to who? Microsoft's financial department? Their advertising department? Their "collect as much info about the users as possible" department?
It certainly doesn't work the way I think an OS is supposed to work ...
Supposed to, as in, when you click on something labeled "Network Settings" it comes up with a Network Setting Page, and when you click on some of those settings, it opens up a completely different control panel window with a complete set of settings.
It does what the programmer intended it to do rather than crashing.
I guess we'll really know what's what when/if MS release Windows 10 21H2. Maintaining different (even if closely related) codebases goes against everything MS has done in recent years, so it would make sense for Windows 10 and Windows 11 to be really close. Alternatively, expect Windows 10 to get little more than lip-service support in future.
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Congrats, Borkzilla, on shutting yourself out of a rather large portion of the market.
I don't know if you've heard, but people don't upgrade every year anymore. And with the amount of computers that were sold due to COVID, you're not going to see much headway before 2026 the way you're going.
Most of us had to be dragged/forced to windows 10, and now a new OS that requires a stupid chip because 0.0001% of people stupidly click on things they shouldn't.
Every review I find of windows 11 talks about their new "like MacOS" thing..
Great, android apps, that's just what everyone needs on their desktop pc...
More xbox related crap....
I think I'm just getting too old for this....
Yes, the dock (sorry task bar), is very confusingly like a MacOS dock.
So much so, that when I was running it in a VM in my actual MacBook, I actually started looking for the menu bar at the top of the screen.
The start menu thing is not at all like the MacOS launcher, and it is also not resizable.
I have 4 monitors and two keyboards/mice on my desk. Two monitors are attached to a Windows computer which I use for work, the other two are attached to the MacBook. So it is not like I'm unused to doing things in Windows.
OK, all new PC's will have to have Windows 11, Cos Microsoft will restrict windows 10 sales.
I am really not sure how many people will upgrade their existing PC's to Windows 11.
Probably half of all PC's, if not more will be unable to upgrade to windows 11 AS THEY ARE CURRENTLY CONFIGURED. Now some of these might be made to run windows 11 after making changes in the bios..... but a lot will never run windows 11 with Microsofts current restrictions.
I just do not see any reason to upgrade my PC to a new, even worse version of windows.
I have to admit I am tired of Microsoft releasing either new windows versions or just "security" updates and breaking so many PC's.
If they spent 50% of their time just making Windows more reliable and faster then maybe I might be interested. but Microsoft have apeared to spend most of the last 10 years fannying about messing up the UI for very little benefit... Playing their violins whilst watching Rome burn!!!!
I like Microsoft as grew up with them but fuck this.
"Freshen up... or else...
The sting in the tail of Woodman's post, though, is the warning that "certain features require specific hardware; see our Windows 11 specifications page for more information.""
Considering its been pointed over relatively new hardware also won't be supported due to lack a TPM 2 chip.
I installed Windows 11 on my Windows 10 laptop (core i5 7th gen Kaby Lake). I bought a new hard drive for the install so I wouldn't screw up my Windows 10. Strangely, I had to disable Secure Boot in the BIOS to install it (probably because I used ISO+Rufus to make the USB). My Windows 10 was installed with legacy BIOS so I had to disable that and enable UEFI. Still have not enabled Secure Boot and everything seems to working OK.
In my opinion, the hardware requirements have absolutely NOTHING to do with win11 operability and EVERYTHING to do with microsoft buying off the hardware manufacturers by forcing people to buy new kit. The only reason I upgraded from win7 was because several bits of software I used were purposely crippled to not run on win7. Common sense & Norton has kept me from security problems since my first pc in 1986.
So a "new Microsoft Store, and integration with Teams and Microsoft 365". So what, I will never use any of these, and the "new" start menu is awful. I have to use Classic Shell to give myself a resonable start menu since windows 8.
Microsoft seem incapable of leaving stuff alone in the UI, not sure if there are ANY improvements under the surface?
I've been an Insider tester for Windows 11 since July, and I am... concerned... this is going to RTM in October.
The current build feels between Beta and Release Candidate - they're stable, but there are so many papercut bugs and UI rough edges (For example: Taskbar Drag and drop doesn't work), I can't see how enough of them could be fixed for that gold date not to leave a lot of frustrated normal and power users.
The fact they've delayed the Android app support until next year seems to back this up: They're pulling features and fixes to get it out of the door.
gut reaction is like you had to wait a year for Windows 10 Anniversary edition to get all the issues ironed out, Windows 11 won't be "Finished" until the 22H2 version comes out.
I've been reading El Reg stories and the reader comments about new versions of Windows since I first started work in 2007 and discovered this corner of the internet during my lunchtimes. I'm a person who likes stability and predictability - other than the sun rising and setting, there is nothing more certain and predictable than a Windows release that causes anger, confusion and just sheer bewilderment. Every time, people marvel at the ingenious ways Microsoft have found to irritate and confound their users..
.. and long may it continue.
Post Generation 7 CPU just to run a program launcher?
Remember, that's all windows is in the long run. It's the software you run on top of it that should get the CPU cycles.
Even if you buy a whizzo new PC just because MS and the CPU/PC manufacturers want to screw the environment for the sake of greed, it's capability will be reduced by the CPU sucking program launcher.
Seriously, how can a program launcher have anything but minimum requirements?
More proof, if you needed any, that Microsoft is run by morons. I don't know what these people are thinking. I will not upgrade my hardware which is working perfectly fine, just so I can run Microsoft's latest garbage operating system. I will switch to Linux before that happens.
Biggest joke of the article: ''...integration with..teams..''
On a Windows laptop I can and regularly use Zoom, Conflab, Ring Central, Whatsapp and G-Suite tools to initiate or join online meetings with voice / video ( not Conflab but that is why I use it when needed. ) and collaboration / screen share or document share as needed. This all works without any major issues. Might have the odd video freeze and some stutter on sound.
But when I have to use MS Teams ( MS is emphasised because it is the same fucking outfit that made the fucking OS ) I end up with nothing but problems:
The bastard thing tries to load whenever I reboot ( doesn't matter what settings you use of what you change in MSCONFIG ) and basically runs the processor and memory / HDD use at about 100 % for about 10 minutes before deciding that it will not load, in the meantime slowing everything else to a bloody crawl.
When it is eventually on and settled, trying to open it for a meeting results in more furious disk thrashing, slowing down of everything else followed 5 minutes later with a message saying it can not load because I don't have an account and why don't I open one now..even though I DO have a bloody account and I have tried to input the details when and if prompted to no avail.
Finally after 3 tries, at least, it opens up a Teams window and then I have to persuade it to look for my video camera and / or mocrophone which it invariably can not see.
During an actual meeting I can use the laptop to heat my fucking house. I have to turn up the volume by 30 percent to over ride the fan noise which does sound like it is trying to take off.
Why the merry fuck can the incompetents who make both the OS and the Teams program not work together ?
Pretty much every comments section that mentions MS is full of angry self righteous sock and obsessive people who want to tell everyone else why they are brilliant only using FOSS and that anyone using MS products are lazy or stupid. It’s getting childish.
By all means have banter but getting personal…really?
I use both Windows and Linux devices. I use MS Office and also OSS office applications.
This is just one use-case example but guess what, I don’t rate one highly over the other and don’t recommend either. People should use what they are comfortable with or what they are given to use.
These arguments are hardly more mature than “my dad is better than your dad” comments.
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