back to article Facebook and Amazon take over Philippines-to-USA sub cable after China Mobile quits

Amazon Data Services Inc. and Facebook contractor Edge Cable Holdings USA have applied to operate a submarine cable linking the Philippines to California, after China Mobile (CMI) bowed out of the project. The cable in question is called CAP-1 and will use six fibre pairs in a design capable of carrying a theoretical maximum …

  1. Lil Endian

    Subverted by US (tm)

    108 terabits per second

    Amazon & FB's slurping epeens must be raging.

    1. NoneSuch Silver badge

      Re: Subverted by US (tm)

      "They can't stop the signal, Mal. They can never stop the signal."

      They can monitor, categorize and index every byte though.

      1. very angry man

        Re: Subverted by US (tm)

        up vote for the Firefly reference


      Re: Subverted by US (tm)

      Amazon cock vore? Never thought I'd see that in an elreg comment.

      1. Lil Endian

        Re: Subverted by US (tm)

        Hehe, I'm sure you didn't!

        Although perhaps we're in the wrong forum, as "Amazon Facebox Cock Vore" belongs here!


          Re: Subverted by US (tm)

          "Oh, Bryan, where are you right now?"

          "Ah yes, I'm approximately 5 feet away from amazon.facebook.cock.vore"

          "I don't want to know what you do in your spare time, I want to know where you are."

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward


    I won't mention porn. I won't mention porn. I won't mention porn!

    Mmmmmmm... porn.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Hello more intercept and surveillance

    We will need a lot more crypto..

  4. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    So China might get the data

    If Facebook is managing that data, I really don't see how China having it would be any worse.

    1. Arctic fox

      Re: So China might get the data

      Indeed. I am having a bit of a problem trying to decide between FaceBook/NSA on the one hand or the CCP on the other. Devil and the deep blue sea and all that.

  5. Jamie Jones Silver badge
    Black Helicopters

    Encrypt the endpoints!

    As the US government showed Google, even if you have private cables and manage the ends, your data isn't safe.

    Isn't it therefore now standard practice to encrypt the traffic as soon as it's travelling outside your property? In which case, where's the issue?

    As an aside, where I used to work, we had a MOD related network link to Northern Ireland, and that was encrypted because underwater wasn't considered secure, and that was 25 years ago.

    1. Lil Endian

      Re: Encrypt the endpoints!

      ...where's the issue?

      Security services are adept at using end point analysis, which reveals much useful intel. While they'd obviously benefit from decrypting transmissions, it's mostly politicians that harp on about it.

      So (easy access to) a nice big pipe facilitating end point analysis is a nice catch. If a foreign gov were controlling the pipe, US would need to compromise the system to gain access, with US companies controlling the pipe they can just ask for/bully access.

      1. Jamie Jones Silver badge

        Re: Encrypt the endpoints!

        I would have thought a big blob of encrypted data between 2 points (not individual streams) wouldn't offer much when there are so many simultaneous users either end!

        As for your second point, yes, having China involved would make it harder for the US to snoop. I didn't think about that!

        1. Lil Endian

          Re: Encrypt the endpoints!

          It's the "big pipe" endpoints that are of interest. Encryption between doesn't matter, "they" encrypt on the way in, and decrypt on the way out. So any visible/viable IP packet end point data is available at either end. Otherwise forward routing would fail. VPNs and Tor make it a bit harder :)

          1. Jamie Jones Silver badge

            Re: Encrypt the endpoints!

            I'm thinking of the company that owns sites either side of the endpoint effectively running conceptually a single VPN over the "cable". All routing etc. would be done inside the companies sites. Any ongoing sniffing of metadata would not be related to the undersea cable.

            1. Lil Endian

              Re: Encrypt the endpoints!

              hehe - split thread :)

              Yes, the company/orgs handling the pipe traffic encrypts during transit, but they have access to the metadata before and after transit. So do those they grant access to.

            2. -v(o.o)v-

              Re: Encrypt the endpoints!

              Like MACsec?

      2. Imhotep

        Re: Encrypt the endpoints!

        This was the cable that was to initially route through Hong Kong, right?

        Then another issue might have been to cut off access altogether.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Encrypt the endpoints!

      Encrypting the messages doesn't necessarily stop people eavesdropping on what places you're visiting, or who you're talking to. Either of which can get you sent for "reeducation" in China.

      1. Jamie Jones Silver badge

        Re: Encrypt the endpoints!

        As I understand it, it's not encrypting individual packets for a stream, it would be encrypting the whole traffic that travels over the point to point link(s)

        1. DJO Silver badge

          Re: Encrypt the endpoints!

          Can't encrypt all the metadata, the system needs that to route the traffic.

          All spooks know the metadata is just as important as the content, in some cases it's the most valuable information a spook can harvest (it's admissible in court, illegally acquired content is not).

          1. Jamie Jones Silver badge

            Re: Encrypt the endpoints!

            The decrypting, and then the routing would be inside the "safe zone". After that, anyone checking the metadata for individual routes would be doing so outside the transatlantic cable anyway.

            Think of the "cable" only being used as one big VPN between the carriers sites either side of the link.

            1. Lil Endian

              Re: Encrypt the endpoints!

              A "safe zone" from those without access, yes. To those with access to the safe zone the metadata is visible before/after "big pipe" encryption.

              1. Jamie Jones Silver badge
                Thumb Up

                Re: Encrypt the endpoints!

                Of course, but that's down to the company using the link, and is nothing to do with whatever carrier owns the pipe!

                The original point was about China spying on the metadata of the undersea link. I contend it won't be an issue.

                Basically, if I ran a company on both sides of the pond, and I wanted to buy a connection to connect them (whether I'm an ISP, transit company, or even a private company wanting to reliably link 2 sites, I'd basically run a VPN connection between the 2 sites, over this link.

                Therefore it doesn't matter if China or Facebook, or anyone else is involved in the link - the only metadata they will be able to gather is how much traffic goes A <> B and when.

                These sorts of links won't be carrying individual connection streams, they'll be point-to-point links for whatever company signs up to use them, and the only metadata available will be whats associated with these links..

                That was my point!

                Oh, and split thread, yep! Sorry for repeating myself!

                1. Junray

                  Re: Encrypt the endpoints!

                  Since the (Covert Operation a hidden history of CIA's in the philippines) its too alarming to giving a permission to a nation who have a capability and recent history of damaging the sovereignty and the internal security of the philippines.

      2. very angry man

        Re: Encrypt the endpoints!

        Encrypting the messages doesn't necessarily stop people eavesdropping on what places you're visiting, or who you're talking to. Either of which can get you sent for "reeducation" "out side of amucker.


  6. gandalfcn Silver badge

    So the 'Pines are considered secure? That's a novel idea.

  7. HammerOn1024


    "Chinese telcos get a better reception in the Philippines..."

    To me, that's just fine and the Chinese telco is a completely Philippines problem within their boarders. When it comes to bringing it ashore to the U.S; a hard NOPE!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Well...

      Congratulations, patriot. You've swallowed the propaganda like a good 'ole slice of American Apple Pie.

      Don't forget to watch out for pinko commies too.

      YOU ESS AY!

    2. gandalfcn Silver badge

      Re: Well...

      The 'Pines remember what the USA did to their country. Just as the Chinese remember what the UK, USA etc. did to it.

      Which boarders are you referring to? The GIs at Angeles? Or the airmen from Clark?

  8. Junray

    Now Philippine National Security at Risk

    US infiltrating to Philippine technological system can easily manipulate the country's private data,putting its society in jeopardy,remember the (Operation Cyclone) & (Timber Sycamore) and the various activities of US by funding rebel groups by bringing chaos globally is enough reason to never trust US presence in you're nation.

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