back to article Microsoft fiddles with Fluent while the long dark Nightmare of the Print Spooler continues for Windows

Microsoft has released a number of Windows 11 updates even as it acknowledges yet more holes found in its flagship operating systems by researchers. Build 22000.132 hit the Windows Insider Dev Channel overnight. The usual raft of tweaks and improvements included a fix for an explorer.exe crash in the Windows Sandbox and Chat …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "Snipping Tool and Snip & Sketch apps have been replaced by a new Snipping Tool"

    The fact they can't get a screenshot app right shows the state of Windows development today. And still none of them can create tabs with a screenshot each...

    1. Zippy´s Sausage Factory

      Re: "Snipping Tool and Snip & Sketch apps have been replaced by a new Snipping Tool"

      The fun thing for me is that "Snip & Sketch" was supposed to replace "Snipping Tool", but has itself been replaced by a new tool also called "Snipping Tool".

      You couldn't make this up...

      1. nintendoeats Silver badge

        Re: "Snipping Tool and Snip & Sketch apps have been replaced by a new Snipping Tool"

        It does seem odd, since it's one of the few things in Windows that "just works" and didn't need any messing with to begin with.

      2. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

        Their latest 'Laurel and Hardy Moment'

        Another fine mess you are getting us into.

        Then there is the

        Fiddling while Redmond Burns.

        MS seem to refuse to want to deal with the big issues.

    2. Waspy

      Re: "Snipping Tool and Snip & Sketch apps have been replaced by a new Snipping Tool"

      https://getsharex.com/

      saves all screenshots you make, can highlight, annotate, add text, make gifs. Can even run as portable, i love it.

      Quite why MS can't just make this I do not know

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    That's it then...

    I refuse to upgrade to that obvious flustercluck of an OS. I'm sticking with Win7 on the grounds that I can use it to reliably get shit done without having to update/reboot every time some MS pseudo-coder gets a bug up their arse.

    1. Piro Silver badge

      Re: That's it then...

      It has been a hot mess since 8, yup.

      It's not like 7 was perfect in every way, but it at least had a relatively consistent design and did not strive to get in your way.

    2. Grunchy Silver badge

      Re: That's it then...

      Windows 7 was the best version and even better, they stopped screwing around with it.

      I like that!

  3. martyn.hare
    Mushroom

    Moral of the story…

    Computers suck.

    Seriously… every OS is shitt when used on a desktop.

    Windows has software where everyone bundles private copies of libraries leading to tons of unfixed issues across common software packages. Even Microsoft themselves are guilty of this with some of their apps (e.g. Teams doesn’t re-use Edge, OneDrive bundles older private Qt lobs etc.). They should maintain a central packaging system for common libraries and I don’t get why they still haven’t done so. Chocolatey and WinGet just install apps with the same crap privately bundled (often vulnerable) code. Combine all that with running half the core system services as a user account more powerful than root and… it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see why the OS is so vulnerable. If Microsoft developers would stop focusing on performance degrading, hacky garbage like Virtualisation Based Security and instead started limiting the privileges of key services like the Print Spooler, these recent vulnerabilities could probably be classified as low severity right now.

    Linux is no better, It makes you choose between distros which don’t patch many security holes properly due to a lack of resources (e.g. Debian Stable), distros which omit key open source packages because of patents which don’t seem to be an issue for anyone else (Fedora/RHEL/SUSE) and those where key functionality constantly breaks (ArchLinux) because FOSS devs clearly hate maintaining ABI compatibility. All of them have trouble maintaining basic functionality like hardware accelerated video decoding and non-crackly audio…while none of them want to pool resources and work on making a standardised base system to free up resources to fix the rest. Guys like Lennart Poettering who try to standardise things get shat on instead of rightfully receiving the praise they deserve for significantly improving the base system.

    Then you have macOS which eschews both compatibility and centralised libraries making for the worst of both worlds. Whenever a new OS version lands you can guarantee it’ll have the same audio/graphics issues as Linux combined with the library problems Windows has… except without any of the legacy support to excuse it. 16GB RAM is enough to run a bloated GNOME desktop alongside bloated Windows 10 but still not enough to run macOS without relying on an overkill SSD as a memory supplement. Sure, it has GUI isolation baked in and more sandboxed apps than the other two combined and a ton of decent personal computer security enhancements baked right in but this is overshadowed by the fact it can’t even do multi-user execution of software correctly (try running sandboxed apps as different users in the same desktop session.. good luck).

    FreeBSD can’t handle simple things like disconnecting devices while they’re in use, Solaris can’t handle heavy I/O without the GUI locking up harder than Linux with an early 2.6 kernel (in fact Linux still locks up under heavy I/O to this day)…. which is probably why folks call it Slowlaris…

    Computers suck.

    1. normal1

      Re: Moral of the story…

      Linux IS better; old complaints are the sound of new volunteers in Linux....

      Make Linux as good as you want.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Moral of the story…

      Er, what?

      Whenever a new OS version lands you can guarantee it’ll have the same audio/graphics issues as Linux combined with the library problems Windows has… except without any of the legacy support to excuse it.

      Nope. Haven't had an issue with that since 10.6. As a matter of fact, even on the machines I have Monterey beta 5 everything works, and that includes fun things like Panasonic Lumix camera streaming (which is in itself a beta) and various bit of software and hardware from Rode microphones. Not a hitch. I'm looking at buying a Shure digital/XLR mic once my budget has recovered from buying a socket converted anamorphic lens, and I don't think I'm unreasonable to expect that not to offer me any problems either.

      16GB RAM is enough to run a bloated GNOME desktop alongside bloated Windows 10 but still not enough to run macOS without relying on an overkill SSD as a memory supplement.

      Have you actually ever been near a MacOS machine? I have an i9 based laptop which has 32GB of RAM and that has never really gone past around 14GB or so other than with caching (I plan to run a gaggle of VMs on that soon for a test which may finally get a bit further into RAM), and the M1 machines I have tend to hover around the 8GB and that's only if I have too much open in Firefox - I can get it to around 12GB if I open all Affinity apps at once as well as load up Final Cut Pro and Motion with large files. As a matter of fact, the M1 machine has as yet to hit swap - ever, even when it's compiling FOSS code for a brew install or when Handbrake is converting video formats.

      Sure, it has GUI isolation baked in and more sandboxed apps than the other two combined and a ton of decent personal computer security enhancements baked right in but this is overshadowed by the fact it can’t even do multi-user execution of software correctly (try running sandboxed apps as different users in the same desktop session.. good luck).

      I'm not sure why I would want different apps with different users, but if that's really an issue I can spin up an extra user and it will happily execute things simultaneously.

      As for Linux, I know people who are *serious* audio freaks and they run most of their sound via a Linux box to manage the digital paths. Yes, I know they've been grumbling about having to make a choice (which is also the problem for those beginning with Linux - a choice of desktops can be a pain) but once you have that working it tends to follow the "erect member" protocol in that it stays up as long as you don't f**k with it. That said, it's one of the reasons I prefer MacOS in that respect - most of Rode gear becomes a digital source or target the moment I plug it in and so becomes selectable as input and/or output depending on device. It's proper plug and play, and you will find Macs sit in most studios of people who do anything with music, also because it handles MIDI control paths really well.

    3. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: Moral of the story…

      Guys like Lennart Poettering who try to standardise things get shat on instead of rightfully receiving the praise they deserve for significantly improving the base system.

      LSB is standardising the base system. Poettering is not improving the base system, he's reinventing the wheel, making things more difficult to configure by using proprietary binary formats (not what you want when a system is half-hosed), and introducing new bugs and exploits while doing it.

    4. Pirate Dave Silver badge
      Pirate

      Re: Moral of the story…

      "Guys like Lennart Poettering who try to standardise things get shat on instead of rightfully receiving the praise they deserve for significantly improving the base system."

      "martyn.hare" has to be the worst anagram of "leonnart poettering" ever. It's like you didn't even TRY. I can say this because nobody praises Poettering and his shitty, obtrusive, over-reaching systemd except Poettering.

      Fuck systemd.

    5. FIA Silver badge

      Re: Moral of the story…

      People just have unrealistic expectations.

      They want secure computers, that are easy to use, and fast.

      Doing all 3 well is damn hard.

  4. Mike 16

    Blast from the past

    Maybe an early encounter with "Every OS Sucks"?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d85p7JZXNy8

    or in text:

    https://genius.com/Three-dead-trolls-in-a-baggie-every-os-sucks-lyrics

    From which one can deduce it was written some years ago because it includes the lines:

    -----------

    The fridge, stove and toaster, never crash on me

    I should be able to get online, without a PHD

    My phone doesn't take a week to boot it

    My TV doesn't crash when I mute it

    -----------

    Ah, for those halcyon days.

    1. Al fazed
      Facepalm

      Re: Blast from the past

      There is only now....................

      and on it bloody well goes......................

      ALF

  5. Mike 16

    Blast from the past

    Perhaps you had an early encounter with "Every OS Sucks"?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d85p7JZXNy8

    or in text:

    https://genius.com/Three-dead-trolls-in-a-baggie-every-os-sucks-lyrics

    From which one can deduce it was written some years ago because it includes the lines:

    -----------

    The fridge, stove and toaster, never crash on me

    I should be able to get online, without a PHD

    My phone doesn't take a week to boot it

    My TV doesn't crash when I mute it

    -----------

    Ah, for those halcyon days.

  6. Henry Wertz 1 Gold badge

    kernel mode

    Main issue here is, historically the printing and on-screen graphics both used GDI, GDI ran in kernel space, so virtually the whole printing system is still in kernel space. Don't get me wrong, you could stick the whole printing and print spooling systems in user space (like Linux does) and still have nasty exploits, but you'd hopefully at least have it running as an unprivileged user instead of in-kernel.

  7. ROC
    Devil

    Return of Linux Hater?

    https://www.informationweek.com/government/-linux-haters-blog-signs-off

    Is that you Linux Hater, but now with impartial hatred of all OS's?

    We sure could use a good ol' fire and brimstone tent revival of raising OS Hell!

    Sic 'em!

  8. Ken Moorhouse Silver badge

    rounded corner treatment

    AKA cutting corners.

    1. Al fazed
      Boffin

      Re: rounded corner treatment

      Still look great, but still work like a brass turd

      All of 'em.,

      ALF

  9. Denarius

    here we go, again and again

    Now I have a new keyboard after the lauding of Pottering and his breaking of what was not borked, increasing complexity and creating multiple dependencies the author has a good point which all of us, bar the newbs, have heard over the millennia. (for the dull of mind, think about it) And this comes down to a problem with economics. What will you pay for ? So far, market forces are answering with "crappy stuff" Much as I would love a simple OS phone that booted in 20 seconds, had reliable communication abilities, could not run an Android or any other "app", because that is the problem solved with the browser. Also only programs that did not require every process to run as admin/root, etc the cost would probably be higher than a $200 cheapie handset. Worse, the corporates would go broke. Imagine being able to upgrade just parts ! This applies to vehicles with hideously complex touch screens on radios when simple mechanical on/off switches are cheaper, and just work. TVs with an OS? BH, same as cars. OK, software defined radios instead of expensive (in comparison) inductors and capacitors/resonators should still be able to power up in seconds. Fine, but would anyone buy this even if made ? Is an entrepreneur out there would would make a punt on building a simpler TV with adequate size or fund the linux phone projects whose parts can be upgraded individually ? I doubt it.

    1. sabroni Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: for the dull of mind, think about it

      "Now I have a new keyboard after the lauding of Pottering and his breaking of what was not borked, increasing complexity and creating multiple dependencies the author has a good point which all of us, bar the newbs, have heard over the millennia."

      Yeah, get back to us when you're coherent.

    2. Fred Daggy Silver badge

      Re: here we go, again and again

      The TV has an OS is the one that gets me every time.

      I need just a bunch of HDMI inputs, and be able select one. Volume and brightness and connect to the remote with infrared. My internet company provides IPTV, My Ps3 (to play the occasional bluray and some skyrim when insomniac), Apple TV - because it nice to show the wrinklies photos when they are all on the couch rather than passing the phone around, kodi/xbmc for everything else. I do not need smart ANYTHINK. I don't need it connecting to the internet, no monitoring me, listing or sensing anything in the room AT ALL.

      TV: You are a screen - do that and do it well.

  10. krf

    And yet, people still use Windows. The antivaxers of the internet refusing to believe the facts of reality.

    I solved the problem by programming now on my 8080 (or at least a clone of my 1976 machine). C and assembler are fun and in all these years it has never leaked my personal details to the world. Lots of BSODs, of course (actually white) but they are my fault and fun to fix. After a career of Visual Studio (barf), Delphi and Xcode, the pureness of a machine that only does what I tell it is soothing in these days in which the gods have apparently abandoned the human race.

    mvi a, 55h

    out 8

    hlt

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Other stories you might like