They really need to decide whether they are they to try and drag the decrepit old language in to the 21st century, or just play a great big game of woke-wank.
The Perl Foundation has put its Community Affairs Team (CAT) on hiatus, and the team's chair has resigned. Samantha McVey's departure came in the wake of the decision by The Perl Foundation (TPF) board to retract the CAT statements of April 19, and May 2, and put the CAT on ice "while its charter is formalized." The Register …
What used to be called "perl6" is now called Raku ... Pretty much everybody involved knew that perl would continue as perl after "perl6" was ready to go ... most surmised "perl6" would gain a new name, and most of them knew it would probably be Raku some dozenish years before Larry made it official.
Why the python people didn't go a similar route is beyond me. Probably control issues.
"Is anyone using Raku?"
Yes. Not me, though. No need (yet). Interesting evolutionary step, worth eyeballing.
"It was dropped from the FreeBSD ports collection in 2014."
That's interesting. The spec for Raku wasn't released until 2015, and wasn't officially named until late in 2019. To the best of my knowledge, there is no Slack package for it, either.
But whatever ... Who needs binary installation files? Out of curiosity, I just installed the Rokudo Star Bundle (from rakudo.org) on FreeBSD and Slackware with no problems. I used the the source tarball to build it from scratch ... all in all, installation was painless on both, and the test package ran fine on both.
If anybody cares, there is an official Docker image of Rokudo Star.
They are functionally equivalent, and it doesn't take much longer to do a job in one or the other.
But Python has masses of modern open-source libraries that Perl doesn't. Where are the supported Perl equivalents of TensorFlow, Pandas, Numpy, PyTorch, Keras and Matplotlib?
And Python code is maintainable because you can find someone to maintain it - college and university computer science departments teach it, so loads of people are experienced in it. On the other hand, most Perl programmers are retired.
"college and university computer science departments teach it"
They taught the OSI model well into the 2000s ... even though it had been essentially obsolete for well over 20 years prior. Your point?
"On the other hand, most Perl programmers are retired."
My Granddaughter isn't even in high school yet. She codes in perl (among other languages). Same for a couple of my younger nieces and nephews. They have all also learned Python, but rarely use it ... there is always a better language to code whatever project they are working on in.
Problem is that Python is utterly terrible.
The un-problem is that Perl is not terrible.
I have loads of scripts written in Perl that do exactly what I need them to do. I see no need to rework many, many hours of development time to port them to a different language like Python, when they're just fine as they are.
"Problem is that Python is utterly terrible."
Yeah but those biz/data bods love it to bits so we all have to have a passable understanding of it. Nothing like some data analyst complaing that their Python script was able to fire up 96 connections to their DEV DB just before it collapsed to its knees, but for some reason the prod system limits them to just 2 connections. Hmm now I why would we would limit connections on bog standard user accounts?!
Python and Perl have different goals and design philosophies.
Perl as it is is more useful in many cases than Python: You don't wear down you fingers into stumps writing it, and you don't have to import lots of libraries to perform common tasks. It is the ideal language when your program massages text, files and processes, and is not too complicated to fit into one source file of reasonable size.
Python is certainly better for larger applications.
>You don't wear down you fingers into stumps writing it, and you don't have to import lots of libraries to perform common tasks.
I find this a perplexing argument. How long does it actually take to type ten lines of code into the computer. Or a hundred lines?
I can type 100 lines of text in a few minutes, but it can take days to produce a 100 line program. I spend many times times longer staring at a typical program and trying to work out why it doesn't work than I do actually typing it into the computer in the first place.
So whether it takes 10 lines or 20 to do the same job is usually immaterial in the grand scheme of things.
But the nice thing about PERL is that you can type one line of anything and it will do something
Let's be honest - the nice thing about Perl is that you can capture a random burst of line noise into your editor, or have a cat walk over your keyboard, and the result will compile and do something.
Only in America! Is it Tom Sawyer? Does anyone other than the author have any idea what this is all about? I suppose that’s what happens when a scripting language becomes a religion. I guess it has all been precipitated because many of the acolytes have converted to Python. Snakes alive!
Maybe I'm a bit old, but I saw the language and handle the one sanctioned person used in that tweet, and instantly thought "I wouldn't want to work with that one..."
Why would you casually drop such overused swears online where anyone can see them?
At least bring up some fun and imaginative stuff, like "I really wombatulated the koala when I upset...".
There's also something supremely satisfying in telling someone to extract their dome from their cloaca, instead of using the tired old alternative.
I'm already coding in a lawn chair out on the shop floor, now I just need a digital lawn to tell people to get off of.
I have an old armchair on the balcony, that I literally found outdoors Idunno, ten years ago or so. Monitor on one of those high kitchen "bar" stools in front of it, laptop leaning against the legs of the stool, mouse on another lower stool beside me, and wireless keyboard in my lap.
Alas, come autumn I'll have to move my workplace in to the dinner table again.
I really have no clue what this story is about. Someone said some things, which upset some people? But it was on IRC ot Twitter, so outside of the jurisdiction of Community Affairs Team?
But we can't say what it is they said, you'll have to do your own digging for that?
Can someone summarise what this is REALLY about? It it Trump? Covid? Trans right? I can bet it's nothing to do with Perl.
As far as I can make out someone told a joke at some convention about a clever Jew outsmarting a Gentile and a Jewish person took exception to this as a type of reverse racism. Then some harsh words were exchanged and it grew from there.
And, no, Perl was not involved in any way.
"Even if imperfect," McVey said, "it is important to have some kind of Charter to work with!"
Paraphrasing: "Something needs to be done, and this is something! We must do it! If you refuse, I shall hold my breath until I turn blue, and then I shall make myself sick!"
During the meanwhile, my Daughter and I have continued reporting the odd bug, and sometimes submitting patches, and generally helping to keep perl going without petty office politics and drama-queens getting under foot. Isn't that kind of the point?
Not to us actual developers. This is a meritocracy where literacy in perl should take precedence. Nobody gives a shit if you're male, female or GLB<+/-57>T, nor if you're a Yank, a Limey or other, or even if you're conservative, liberal, or normal. Or carnivore, omnivore or vegan. We don't even care if you listen to ABBA on purpose! None of that matters here, so keep it out of the conversation.
What we are here for, and interested in, is perl. If you can code, great! If not, you can write documentation or proofread the work of others (there are other things that always need doing in any FOSS project ... ask). Ignore the personality conflicts (and those who invent them) and just get on with it. There is always something to do in the perl community. (Funny, I was saying the same thing about vi and EMACS 40-odd years ago. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose ... ).
I get the impression that a lot of these incidents happen during international conferences. Mix a fairly large number of people from very different countries/social contexts &c together and add late nights and possibly alcohol.
The obvious solution is just not to have as many international conferences. Saves money as well.
<rant>FFS. These ass-hats really piss me off.
"...and is not prioritizing the safety of the community.". Safety of the community? From what? You are building a language interpreter, not a nuclear reactor.
"...this was about multiple structural process and community outreach failures". Community outreach? Are they building shelters for the homeless, or building a fucking programming language?
I'm absolutely sick of this shit. It's 100% the reason why I refuse to get involved with any open source software. Not that I'd be welcome anyway, because I refuse to pander to this woke, communist duma-style 'committee led' wankery. Just write your fucking software. If someone behaves like a jerk, then the developers themselves can tell that person they are a fucking jerk and ostracise them if need be. What you *don't* need, is a self-appointed police committee, deciding what the 'law' should be (all in the interests of keeping everybody 'safe' of course), and then setting out to police that law no matter what, examining every communication on the group list, admonishing people for using improper pronouns and non-inclusive or inappropriate language, such as "master" and "slave", then getting together 'in-camera, in committee' to decide what the 'sentence' should be. It's communist-style politicisation of software development, and I refuse to have anything to do with it. I'd rather clean windows (glass windows) for a living.
Here's a suggestion: Instead of forming code-of-conduct 'contracts' and assembling inquisition committees to denounce fellow developers that refuse to conform to your 'safe' community fantasy, WHY DON'T YOU TRY WRITING SOME FUCKING SOFTWARE?
When are the developers going to grow some balls and tell these interfering communists to fuck off? Seriously.
I always post as jake, except in a couple of cases where one of the cats seems to have managed to tick the "post anonymously" box for me. And even then, where it has mattered I have posted a follow-up laying claim to that post. (Note that "Jake" is one of several entities that have come and gone here on ElReg, I am none of them.)
MeDearOldMum didn't raise no nameless, faceless blobs of grey goo.
Man alive you really don't like the left do you!
Agree the general tone of the rant though, let developers get on with the business of writing software. If someone is rude or abusive to others, tell them to shut the hell up with their crap no one needs or wants to hear else they get out, that's all that's needed.
"WHY DON'T YOU TRY WRITING SOME FUCKING SOFTWARE?"
Those who can, code (or write documentation, run an email list, etc.).
Those who can't, try to administrate. Usually quite poorly.
FOSS projects are by their very nature a meritocracy. Either contribute to the project in a useful mannor or get the fuck out of the way so the rest of us can. Quite honestly, we don't need your self-serving governance. Go away and stay away. Thank you.
I remember Perl. I remember once patting myself on the back and thinking just how clever I was for coming up with a really cool solution to a nasty little problem. Unfortunately, when I went back to it about six months later it looked like a puppy had puked in my editor. I had no clue what it did or how so I had to start again from scratch. I don't think I have actively used Perl in the last decade or two. It had a good life, now it is time to let it die with dignity.
Yes, Perl does make it easy to write ugly code... but you can do that in most languages, it just takes a little more effort. You can also write concise and readable code, if you so choose.
I've also not used it in over 10 years, but would be happy to if a project came along. Although, I'd be happier with Python or Go because... well future prospects really.
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