That's money down the drain....
You've been great, thank you, and goodnight.
Where's there's muck there's brass, and there won't be many places more mucky than a sewer system as bidders for a network digitalisation contract in southern England are about to rediscover. According to a tender published this week, Southern Water is wading through the market to sniff out a supplier to "significantly and …
They probably have different names in highly technical jargon filled world of sewerage, but when you talk to the general public you tend to try and speak on their level... hence we tend to still talk about steam rollers and telegraph poles even though neither are strictly correct any more
(but I seem to remember Susie Dent saying 'steam roller', at least, is acceptable for modern diesel road rollers)
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"It's from the Latin root meaning hand"
"...hole or opening in a floor, pavement, etc., through which a person may pass"
"...1793, from man (n.) + hole (n.)"
I've seen several confirmations of the year of origin. But none about a Latin root. English would be the language in use at the time, though the medical profession still coins new words from the Latin.
Don't believe everything you see the posted if there isn't a decent citation with it.
"Dawn of the Bottom Inspectors" has finally arrived...
Sewage monitoring for early warning of corona virus outbreaks...
That is not a new idea/used in the past to detect infections such as cholera
How difficult will it be to correlate the two?
Actually very difficult unless they put a monitor on every single drain and sewer length. All the monitors will show is a possible issue in an area based on predicted flow rates and measured flow rates, taking into account other factors such as weather conditions.
Essentially it is a fixed point monitor, if flows are below expected levels (with a margin of error included) it indicates a problem upstream of the monitor, ir the level rises above expected levels it indicates a problem downstream. That is basically it.
A lot of behind the scenes data analysis is required, and adjusting dead bands for response signals. That is basically it.
Disclaimer: I know this as I am involved in a current live deployment of a similar system, hence posting anonymously.
"Actually very difficult unless they put a monitor on every single drain and sewer length. All the monitors will show is a possible issue in an area based on predicted flow rates and measured flow rates, taking into account other factors such as weather conditions."
You need to take into account feature creep and data fetishists. As water meters are introduced to more and more properties, how much more or less expensive will it be to also place a monitor on the household waste outlet too? Once the proposed network of monitors is in place, the management team in charge will be vastly reduced to a maintenance team. And we all know middle and senior managers are very protective of their fiefdoms. Expansion of the monitoring network is pretty much a given once the powerpoint presentations have been created to demonstrate the business case for ever more micromanagement and the ability to introduce "Pay per Poo" to the customers.
Aaah, to be in the Land of The Free.
But in all fairness we in the UK pay for all those operations too, just we pay it all as the water bill, instead of separate billing for each. You Yanks seem to suffer what is essentially a pooping tax. Hmm. Let's not give our governement and water utilities any new brilliant ideas.
If it became financially feasible to put a monitor on the end of every place where a house connects to the main line in the street, they could find out who is flushing the hand wipes or pouring grease down their drains and fine them for being the cause of the blockages. Sewer lines aren't clogging because of a few people taking massive poops!
Sewer lines aren't clogging because of a few people taking massive poops!
But some small drains can clog up due to less volume of water used in modern cisterns.
Like one of my neighbours found out after they updated their bathroom suite.
If I'm not mistaken, Trump had some beef with the EPA or some other agency because of reduction of water volume in WCs...
interestingly, this can be a major problem with urinals if water flow is restricted - uric acid starts crystallising out on the drainpipe, restricting flow even further
It means a constant fight with "green freaks" about flush volume/frequencies as they don't appreciate the costs or the (nasty) chemicals needed to clear out such blockages
The problem with urinals is not the water volume it is that some people don't flush them at all. Why bother, they think, if it is just liquid running down the drain?
I own a business that has urinals and have had plenty of problems with the urinal drains becoming slow. Doesn't matter if you turn the little screw that controls the amount of water per flush up to the max, it still happens. The plumber says it is because some people don't flush, and if no one uses the urinal for a while after it adds buildup in the pipes.
The fix he recommended was to replace with one of those autoflush valves, he said where he's done that they've had no further problems with buildup. Unfortunately those are a pretty expensive retrofit - it is cheaper to keep some muratic acid around to pour down the urinals once a month to keep them clear.
The first generation of low flow toilets sucked, too often you'd have to double flush and if the flush wasn't enough to get out of the bowl it may not be enough to carry everything all the way out your sewer line to the street. If something stops partway down, it increases the chance for something else to get stuck behind it and pretty soon you've got a sewer guy over jetting the line to clear the blockage. That's probably what happened to your neighbor.
Quality modern low flow toilets don't have the problem, but unfortunately there are millions upon millions of older models installed before they got it figured out that do, and maybe still some bargain basement ones that still do I'm not sure. If you go to a plumber's supply type place instead of a Home Depot type place they can tell you which ones are the best based on feedback from actual plumbers . Some even have demo units (flushing rubber balls, hopefully customers aren't trying them out in the showroom) so you can see how powerful the flush is.
My parent's 1960s house still has the original cistern at waist height so it is:
Siphon not valve
Has about 3 gallons or more in it
Has a good "whoosh"
Nothing remains in the bowl and most be ejected into the sewer at about 40 mph!
At one point a brick or two were placed in it to reduce the water usage but it is still many litres more than the 6l commonplace now.
Interestingly I have no recollection of the toilet of drains (it is quite a long driveway) ever being blocked.
Next door ripped everything out about 5 years and about every 6 months have someone out poking things into the manhole. This joins onto my parent's manhole so is often the access to rod upstream.
What I find even more frustrating is the use of a valve to release the flush as these either work for years or seem to need replacing every 12 months because they leak. Because the leak is into the toilet bowl it is not necessarily obvious, wasting more water than it supposedly saves.
In my youth, the phrase "that'll be a danger to shipping when it gets out into the Channel..." was often said with hushed pride/reverence when flushing the WC. I've never done one of those online genetics tests, but I wouldn't be surprised to find that I'm part Clydesdale Horse.
"...but I wouldn't be surprised to find that I'm part Clydesdale Horse."
As we are on the subject of waste water... no doubt some of this ends up in waste water, along with other medications and their metabolites eliminated by the body...
...made using the urine of pregnant mares.
Well, they already basically do the same monitoring on the water and gas networks. Not surprised they're doing it to the poo pipes.
It makes sense if you think about it. It's far easier to jet a 1 ton fatberg, before it becomes a 40 ton fatberg (I think 40 ton is the British record).
> Now they want to monitor the sewers to discover blockages, in real-time.
> How difficult will it be to correlate the two?
You're assuming they will really install monitoring equipment, and not only budget it, have it paid for, and then put the money in their pockets...
Smart meters are deployed worldwide because they allow to improve billing (more profit); Sever monitoring doesn't improve profit, and they definitely don't care if sewage floods a building and people drown in it - That's what insurances are for. So don't expect that monitoring equipment to be installed anywhere except a few prestigious showcase lines.
It does if you charge for sewer usage? Here in my US county we pay for the water we use, the water we throw away (sewer), AND the water they somewhat clean and send back to us to water the grass.
There is an upside to all this monitoring though. If you have an unknown leak, they will contact you so you can fix it before you get an outrageous bill
And I love the way these companies talk about "historic" offences as if it was so long ago that the people who did it have moved on or died. No Mr Southern Water spokesman. "Historic" is not the word to use for fines just levied for offences that took place only 10 or fewer years ago. The only reason you are being fined NOW for those "historic" offences is because it not only took a long while to collect and analyse the data for such a huge dump, but I have no doubt whatsoever that YOU, Southern Water, did everything in your legal power to delay the case as much as possible. Now we just have to wait another few years to see what fines you get for "less historic" dumping offences you possible did since 2015 because I doubt you changed your ways until you were actually convicted because we all know you will have denied everything up to and possibly since being convicted and changing your before before then might be seen as an admission of that now proven guilt.
southern water have only upgraded around here at the point of gun....
Built a 2 mile outfall pipe to replace the 200 yrd one.... while everyone was saying "build a proper sewerage works ffs" that worked until they were forced to build a sewerage treatment plant.... 4 miles back from the coast(they built 2 ten foot diameter pipes to pump the stuff up from the outfall pipe.. then back down to the outfall pipe)... upon nearly completing said sewerage treatment plant they whined about having to spend another 2 million on a UV 3rd stage..
And we'll not even go into the day when it was raining heavily, so they started 4 drainage pumps at once..... and blew out the electrics resulting in those 4 not starting and the 2 that were running promptly stopping....... and then a lot of areas found out they were below sea level when a very smelly flood come up the drains/toilets...
Wonder why the downvote.
Anyhow, here's a glossy article on the water works...
Ah, Budds Farm!
Certainly has expanded from my childhood and teen years of going to the next door tip with catapult or air rifle for ratting. Hot summer days were interesting when working at the Havant IBM plant in the "temporary" office buildings with the pervading odour of said farm wafting through the closed windows.
But that part of Langstone did have (and perhaps may still have?) the most wonderful smelling black mud that gave up large numbers of cockles and also rag and lugworm for bait.
> Wonder why the downvote.
We clearly have a Southern Water employee here: Note how all posts saying negative things about Southern Water got one downvote...
Well, Mr Southern Water employee, living in another part of the world I don't know your company personally, but apparently there is little good to be said about them, so you might be wasting your undying loyalty... Your vengeful downvotes won't change them into a model company loved by its customers anytime soon.
Hampshire is one of the richest counties in the country. Yet... there are a few places that are very deprived right next to the wealth. Some wards in Aldershot are amongst the most deprived in the south of England yet right next door is Hart District, one of the most desirable places to live.
At least Southern Water got rid of the leak that was just up the street from me. It only took them a month to get around to it.
Anon from North Town, Aldershot.
I can only upvote this once sadly.
Areas around here like West Leigh, or Somerstown or a couple of areas of Southampton would get special treatment /regeneration/investment thrown at them if they were located in cities of the north east/north west.
Mind you.. the isle of wight is even worse off.... and thats supposed to be an uber rich area...
Possibly the reasons they don't get the extra help is because they have so many wealthy residents paying larger amount of council tax and maybe it's the local authorities spending money where the wealthy "squeaky wheels" with expensive legal advisors or "forcing" them to spend.
I've personally seen examples locally of people complaining to the Council about services or maintenance and nothing being done, while in neighbouring more wealthy areas, people who more closely understand "the system", have "contacts" or have the correct legal knowledge, can make complaints and get much more immediate action from the Council. You can see the evidence from the minutes of Council meetings if you care enough to access them. People should not have to go out and learn and use specific legal phrases or play golf with the right people just to get the services they are legally entitled to. I should be able to phone the council to complain about multiple pot holes in the street and get them fixed just as or more easily than SIr Ponsonby-Smythe can get his single, tiny little pot-hole fixed next day by quoting the relevant Statutes and By-Laws.
"This project is vital but unconnected to the fine recently levied on the company for historic permit breaches at wastewater treatment works between 2010-15. Since those breaches were discovered the company has been in a major transformation of culture, people and processes."
Howe can 'breaches' be discovered when they were intentional ?
8 million quid for...
"sewer monitors and developing in parallel the associated analytics to make appropriate and effective use of the additional information to prevent sewer blockages developing"
Many software sales persons will be sniggering.
They wont even get out of bed for that sort of money.
It does seem extremely low. 30k of sensors amounts to about £266 per sensor, including hardware and software development, comms networks, installation, support and maintenance. Not expecting many, if any, will bid for that pittance.
And maybe that's the point. Offer a deliberately low contract that sounds big to the great unwashed, then when no one bids Southern Water can say "look, we tried to get this sorted out but no one would bid on it" and then they don't have to spend a penny (badum tish) more on it.
So they are now spending a lot of money on things that could have been done for far less but would have reduced profits. Now the consumer will have to pay more. As usual.
Isn't privatisation of public utilities a wonderful thing.
Greensands Holdings Limited owns Southern and is registered in Jersey. So no UK tax. It is also mainly owned by foreign investors.