BT to phase out 3G in UK by 2023 for EE, Plusnet, BT Mobile subscribers BT is going to wind down 3G connectivity by 2023 as it looks to increase its 4G and 5G coverage across most of the UK by 2028. The lack of 3G shouldn't be too much of a pain because by that point, most people will have a 4G or 5G-capable handheld. The telecommunications giant said less than two per cent of data traffic over …
I generally find 3G more reliable and just as fast as 4G in pretty much all locations. I've assumed that is because the great unwashed masses of downloaders all use 4G leaving 3G pretty much clear for me to use.
I do think I have detected some lowering of service in the past 12-18 months, so wasn't sure whether EE was already cutting back on 3G, or whether it was all down to WFH and that virus thing.
Where do you get the idea the new system isn't ready? If there are any holes left in coverage where you have only 3G and not LTE/5G, those will go away when the 3G spectrum is repurposed.
The only possible reason you would care about 3G going away is if you are still using a phone old enough that it can't do LTE.
Interesting. I find the opposite. On the rare occasions it drops down to 3g I get either 0kb or modem speeds so slow nothing works so I think they are already reallocating bandwidth. If they start to do this I think they should start to think of switching the 3g mast off is data is unavailable to avoid 4g users accessing this band and getting no Internet (or ensure a low speed of maybe 1 to 2mbs is kept for use when on 3g).
Both 4G and 5G can use lower spectrum than 2G and 3G. The limitation is the following.
4G (band by frequency in Europe).
450Mhz/700Mhz/800Mhz/900Mhz/1500Mhz/1800Mhz/2100Mhz/2300Mhz/2600Mhz
5G (band by frequency in Europe as of 2021).
700Mhz/800Mhz*/900Mhz/1800Mhz/2100Mhz/2600Mhz/3500Mhz/3700Mhz/26.50Ghz - 29.50Ghz*
*Not supported by every 5G phone on the market as of 2021 in Europe.
3G (band frequencies in Europe)
900Mhz/2100Mhz
2G (band frequencies in Europe)
900Mhz/1800Mhz
Lower spectrum use allows for better coverage but at lower speed. This is the same for 4G and 5G.
There are more frequencies that can be used but have not seen any use in 4G or 5G as of 2021 or allocation by regulators* and those frequencies are not supported by mobile phones either. Most phones support more frequencies then are used in any market for reasons of travel between Europe, North-America (ITU region 2) and ITU region 3 (Asia, Australia and more).
*The reason for this is that spectrum is being used by something else. Military, government, private communication by companies and so on. Fixed links communication and more.
Sources
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LTE_frequency_bands
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5G_NR_frequency_bands
BT expect to cover another 4500 square miles with 4G in the next four years, sounds a lot but that is an area of 67X67 so about 15 towers.
Put that into 5G terms though and it translates to over 50 times as many transmitters, 5 G won't be getting into a lot of rural areas any time soon.
I know that is simplified but so is BT's BS.
Given that my (non-smart) water meter is in what looks like a pretty good Faraday cage I'm still puzzled about how they can read it from a range of several metres. Apart from being underground it's enclosed in a steel tube on top of which, at ground level, there's a hinged cast iron cover. Could the gap between cover lid and frame act as a slot aerial.
Gen 1 smart meters run on 2G with whoever the energy provider decided to contract with. In the north of England and in Scotland, Gen 2 smart meters use a separate long range radio wave network built and maintained by Arqiva. In the rest of England and in Wales, Gen 2 smart meters use the Telefonica (O2) 2/3G network
Phasing 2G out wasn't issue, as non-phone 2G devices never really caught on in the US to the extent they did in Europe. It is the phaseout of 3G that is proving more difficult due to fire/burglar alarms, IoT type devices like river level monitoring, and so forth. That phaseout has been postponed several times by the big telcos from 2019 with dates now set for 2022. At least the pandemic gave them a good excuse I suppose, as I doubt it made all that much difference for a couple guys driving around and working on towers.
Luckily the powers that be learned their lesson and LTE and 5G are able to coexist in the same spectrum. The reason telcos want to drop older standards is mostly about efficiently using spectrum. When the older standard can coexist with the newer one no spectrum is wasted so no reason to force people to upgrade their fire alarms or whatever.
"The lack of 3G shouldn't be too much of a pain because by that point, most people will have a 4G or 5G-capable handheld"
I know several people with arthritis who can't use a "gesture controlled" smart phone, so we'd better hope some vendors will provide 4G "feature phones". Otherwise, pseudo-Darwinian unnatural selection will "phase out" the elderly. Not forgetting of course that the currently young and agile will themselves one day become "elderly". Unless of course we adopt the principle of Logan's Run City.
I don't have arthritis but I did not jump on the 'smartphone' bandwagon.
There are few 4G phones out there. I tried the Nokia 8110 4G and I would not recommend it to my worst enemy. The 4G part was working fine, but the keyboard was barely usable and the software clunky A.F.
Sold it because I couldn't stand it anymore and no more firmware updated in sight after they fixed some of
the major issues.
Hopefully we'll get more phones (instead of pocket-computers) when 2g/3g will be shut down.
Will be interesting to see if phones and 'smart'phones sold in EU will lose the 2G/3G capabilities in the future, because in some countries that's all you have when you get out of the urban areas, unprepared tourists might be surprised.
The 8110 is a Kai OS phone. Nokia has three or four, all with identical internals but different form-factors. I tried the tough phone and found the keyboard unusable, constantly mis-typing so I sent it back for a refund.
However, there is a CAT-branded phone, the B35, which is near identical to the tough Nokia and the one I received actually works. Having a bit of trouble setting up email - possibly due to a self-signed certificate my end - but otherwise very pleased with it - though only had it a month so far.
List of Kai OS phones at the Kaiostech website linked above.
M.
The Yorkshire Dales have seen a huge increase in visitors since lockdown. Many areas (and not just the tops, but roads down valleys) have no coverage at all.
Visit The Ofcom map and look at the area around Hubberholme (BD23 5JE). Even "Outdoor", "No 4G" there are huge areas of white.
Indoors some towns have areas with no coverage at all. Even text messages don't get through, making the new two factor authentication for online purchases a pain, Settle for instance (BD24 9DJ).
These sorts of issues have nothing to do with 3G vs LTE, but with the frequency being used as lower frequencies penetrate buildings better. When they drop 3G the spectrum will be repurposed - I would guess as 5G DSS which shares spectrum with LTE so works for both but could be LTE only.
The spectrum currently used for 3G doesn't go away though - it just changes from 3G to 4G. Coverage of that spectrum stays the same.
It's even possible coverage will improve, but for a different reason; the networks are under OFCOM pressure to hit 90% geographic coverage. A site they are already visiting for a 3G-4G switch is a prime candidate to have 700/800 added at the same time. And that spectrum goes much further.
(You still need a VoLTE handset to use it though)
so, from 2023 I will not be able to get 3G/4G reception, same as I'm not able to get 3G/4G experience now? I wonder... given that I live within 'Greater London', will I get even more of the 'no 3G/4G reception' in areas with even more or less of the 3G/4G reception'?
And old ThinkPads!
3G worked fine under Win10 but not Linux until a recent kernel update. So I was thinking that 2025 wasn't a problem - let alone 2023. But then I'm on the 'Three' network and they may have an eponomatic problem phasing out 3G ;-)
Kindle 2 can use 2G outside the US, and everything since the Kindle 3 has wifi. The DX is the only version sold outside the US that would suffer from losing 3G, and hardly anyone actually bought one of those. I'm also reasonably sure every version can connect to a PC via USB, so lacking wireless will never make them useless. Lacking connectivity also doesn't delete all the books currently on them, indeed, given Amazon's previous behaviour, it's the only way to keep them safe.
Indeed. And if by "customers" you also include all the automated systems that require a phone line connection, then those that *do* make use of the cellular data channel may well only be transferring a few MB per month, which might as well be a rounding error in comparison to even a "light" user with a basic smartphone. And then there's all the systems that still operate purely over the voice channel, exchanging data via ContactID, P100 and other tone-based protocols...
... doesn't mean I can get a 5G, 4G or even (gasp) 3G signal.
Here in the barren wastelands of East Yorkshire the very fastest signal I can get - if I'm lucky - is 3G. At home, just a couple of miles from Hull, I get 1 bar of 4G. Most of the time it's just GPRS or EDGE. I can get a better signal in the Kruger National Park in South Africa, 30 miles from the nearest street light. (I know, because I've done it).
Unlike 2G and 3G, "standard" voice call are not part of 4G and 5G - they are intended to be performed over a IP/data connection. In 4G it is know as VoLTE (Voice over LTE, as LTE is the official term for 4G). I'm not sure if there's a specific term for the same thing in 5G networks but basically it works the same as VoLTE.
When 4G was launched in the UK all of the 4 main OpCos (EE, 3, O2, Vodafone) only supported VoLTE in their networks for contract customers (aka PostPaid) but not for PrePaid SIMs. Also the various OpCos only supported certain makes/models of handsets for VoLTE use.
On a 4G or 5G phone if you search through the menus you should find an option to enable/disable VoLTE (and possibly a seperate option to disable receiving calls via VoLTE as to do so requires your phone to keep an active data connection in place which affects battery life).
3 ("Three") only enabled VoLTE for their PrePaid customers in the past month or so. I belive EE is the only one of the 4 main OpCos not to have enabled VoLTE for PrePaid SIMs yet. I'm not sure how many of the various resellers (i.e. Voxi, Tesco, etc) of the Big 4 OpCos support VoLTE currently, either for their PostPaid or PrePaid customers.
If you have a handset/SIM combination where VoLTE is not enabled then whenever you receive or make phone calls they happen via either a 3G or 2G network.
Even once all the UK networks enable VoLTE for all their customers' SIMs if your 4G/5G device is not supported for VoLTE use by your provider's network for some reason then you will not be able to make or receive phone calls at all!
>3 ("Three") only enabled VoLTE for their PrePaid customers in the past month or so.
Nope, Three have supported VoLTE for any handset that had the right settings ever since they launched it in 2015. Subscription type never came into it.
I was part of the team that tested it prior to launch. The priority was to get as many customers using it as possible because it gave a big improvement in network coverage: the LTE800 band goes a lot further than 3G2100.
> "Nope, Three have supported VoLTE for any handset that had the right settings ever since they launched it in 2015. Subscription type never came into it."
My mistake, I have 3 and EE sims here and was getting them mixed up. So its EE that have only started supporting/enabling VoLTE on their PrePaid SIMs in the past month:
https://newsroom.ee.co.uk/ee-launches-unique-pay-monthly-stay-connected-data-and-new-nhs-heroes-offer-as-well-as-4g-and-wifi-calling-on-pay-as-you-go/
Note their reference to "a compatible handset", you'd expect that all 4G handsets would work.
My underlying point still stands that some people with 4G or 5G handsets/SIMs could presently be using only 3G and 2G for voice calls and potentially when those 2G and 3G networks are turned off they could lose voice service (i.e. the example a previous poster gave of a Samsung device running LineageOS or similar).
>you'd expect that all 4G handsets would work.
But then I'd be out of a job ;-)
Unfortunately there are a lot of settings that need to match in the network and the handset for VoLTE to work. Originally only operator custom software had those, and only for the network they were designed for - take that handset to another network and you're back to 3G/2G voice.
The GSMA spotted the problem and built a settings database; since 2019 most handsets will automatically install the right config for the SIM they are given. Of course there were a lot of handsets sold between 2015 and 2019, and many of them are still in use....
>Note their reference to "a compatible handset", you'd expect that all 4G handsets would work.
I wonder if it has been extended, previously it was only handsets with EE branded firmware. Thus my Huawei P30 purchased from an approved EE reseller supports VoLTE out-of-the-box (on EE), whereas one that was originally locked to another network doesn't support VoLTE.
Mind you had slightly different problem with a bunch of alcatel 3T8 tablets donated by EE to a charity last April: according to Alcatel tech specifications they support VoLTE, however the EE variant doesn't...
"that had the right settings" is doing some heavy lifting... until much more recently, other than fruit-based handsets it was a handful of mostly not brilliant ones, and only when bought directly from Three
Yup, Apples have always worked regardless of source.
All the Samsung S and Note series since S5 have VoLTE when bought from 3, and since S7 (2016) it works regardless of where you bought the handset. You may regard these as "not brilliant", but the sales figures disagree ;-)
Similar phasing applied to Huawei, who (at the time) held 3rd place in UK sales.
That is called 5GVoice (Vo5G/VoNR) and that standard is not yet ready for use. That means all 5G networks are going to be data only for a while. Currently there is also no support for 5GVoice in any mobile phones on the market that I know of (it might be built in but not enabled).
VoLTE and Vo5G are both build on IPv6 network connections.
Source
https://www.nokia.com/networks/solutions/voice-over-5g-vo5g-core/
https://www.ericsson.com/en/5g-voice
Driving around darkest North Essex I am lucky ot get a phone signal let alone a G for data. I guess they didn't include no G in the calculations.
If you are on 3 you shouldn;t bother turning your phone on. O2 is pretty poor non-existant outside of towns, Vodafone is patchy and EE is better than most but still lots of not spots.
Mrs Anon tells me Voice over LTE voice quality on EE/BT is awful with anything less than 3 bars, and for most, do their handsets support it at all?
No LTE coverage in my house, so what about the 3G signal assist? It's the only way I can make/receive calls on my handset inside the house or garden.
Turn off 3G and Signal Assist and I'll need either 1) a new VoWiFi handset 2) a VoIP App or 3) plug the land line back in... (facepalm)
Hope EE/BT keep the Signal Assists running on a slimmed down virtual / cloud 3G core.
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