Microsoft releases Windows 11 Insider Preview, attempts to defend labyrinth of hardware requirements

Microsoft on Monday released its first Windows 11 Insider Preview build (22000.51) to its Dev channel. It also took the opportunity to tackle head on the criticism it faced over the operating system's tough hardware requirements. A Microsoft document [PDF] released last week details the hardware requirements for Windows 11. It …

[ayay]

hardware requirements

If that doesn't change, the year of Linux on the desktop may be upon us, brought by the most unlikely chain of events to boot.

Many serviceable machines are 7-10 years old, and many people in first world countries are having trouble to upgrade, let alone the third world. You find TPM 1.2 in some, most won't have anything.

Hell, even new machines won't make it. The machine I bought a couple of months ago - 11th Gen Core i5 - does not have TPM 2.0, thus incompatible. I can get a module, but I assume these are probably overpriced by now, just like everything else.

[JDPower666]

Re: hardware requirements

Nope, not the year of Linux, just several more years of people continuing to use the old Windows version they were already using that just works.

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft you really are going to have to rethink this one through, and sack the head of marketing.

I regularly use both Windows 10 and Linux (and macOS), and I often have to minimise the browser to see the background, to work out which operating system I'm working in because:

a) I can just no longer tell.

b) There is very little difference between browsers like Chrome and Firefox when working across the different OS's today, including macOS.

It's pretty clear the main advantage today for Windows 11 (and macOS) over Linux is the amount of money spent promoting Windows 10 (now 11) and Office 365, compared to Linux, which for Linux, is basically, word of mouth, zero.

And given the backlash against the minimum requirements for Windows 11, the amount of money Microsoft will throw at this will be off the scale, but I believe the damage is already done.

Windows 11 has failed from the off.

There is just nothing compelling about what Microsoft are trying to do here. It's utter fakery, to sell more hardware, Windows 11 is Windows 10, and Windows 10 "does the drudge" everyone needs it to do. This just locks down the hardware further for little to no reason, but more to the point, locks down what people can do on their PCs further.

Environmentally, Windows 11 is an absolute traversty, potentially generating vast amounts of landfill for no reason other than to sell more of the same but using new Windows 11 'compatible' hardware, that is no faster than the non-compatible Windows 10 hardware.

Microsoft you really are going to have to rethink this one through, and sack the head of marketing.

[Lon24]

EU to Microsoft: you really are going to have to rethink this one

I imagine EU beaureacrats are at this moment sharpening their mice to force MS to extend the Win10 2025 eol to 2030 or whenever. They will argue the landfill/environment impact but the impact on constituent government IT budgets for forced hardware upgrades may help.

The EU has form on bringing MS to heal. Let's hope they can do it again. Otherwise it's going to be Linux users like me who will most benefit buying some great second hand kit dumped on the market at silly prices.

[Charlie Clark]

Re: EU to Microsoft: you really are going to have to rethink this one

Windows 10 EOL already matches the planned depreciation of most IT budgets. Governments can probably hold out for longer for a fee. If the EU does intervene, it might be over some of the weirder hardware restrictions such as TPM. But, if Windows market share continues to decline, then all you'll probably hear will be the tumbleweeds.

[MisterHappy]

Re: hardware requirements

Possibly the few months of people finding the switch in the Bios to enable TPM.

Win 11 checker failed me for not having a TPM, passed after I looked around the Bios a bit.

[NATTtrash]

Re: hardware requirements

"That might be true Jim, but not as we know it".

Looking the screenshots of W11, I can't escape the impression that it looks very much like Gnome and xfce. But hey...

[Snake]

Re: hardware requirements

I am awaiting detail technical justifications of leaving out Intel CPU's older than Coffee Lake. According to Wikipedia, the only new technologies that Coffee Lake implemented over Kaby Lake, beyond the expected increase in speeds, is CNVI, a connectivity interface for WiFi and Bluetooth.

So, exactly, why is Kaby Lake banned??

[sofaspud]

Re: hardware requirements

I've been trying to puzzle that one out myself. I mean, I have no plans to upgrade (sidegrade?) to Windows 11, but my i7-7700 on Kaby Lake is still perfectly snappy and has TPM 2.0 (according to the BIOS, anyway) but Microsoft's checker still blows me the raspberry and I can't figure out why.

My CPU is not listed on MS's compatibility list but other i7's are.

It's stupid confusing. I've been toying with switching fully to Linux anyway, so maybe now's the time.

[Anonymous Coward]

Legs eleven

Run away!

[uro]

Forcing hardware upgrades in the midst of a global silicon glut, how to do PR the Micro$oft way.

The whole forced hardware requirement on updating Windows 10 to 11 is a really bad PR move considering the entire world is in a silicon glut at the moment and to be quite honest for the froseeable future until new silicon fabs are constructed & those currently under contruction are fully operational for chip pricing and availability to fall back to "normal" levels before many people will even consider upgrading hardware, nobody wants to pay much higher than MSRP for silicon that is out of date within a few years.

I get the whole TPM thing, all my systems have TPM 2.0 along with Secure Boot, security is paramount in an ever connected world (and also secure virtualization which M$ are pushing heavily).

However, there are hundreds of thousands, possibly millions of systems out there that do not support TPM 2.0 or it is only available via a TPM 2.0 module for the motherboard (which the enablement of may or may not even be accessible from the BIOS depending on vendor) and which have already have had any available stock vacuumed up to be resold at massively inflated prices on ebay.

By forcing this on those users in the current silicon climate there are going to be an awful lot of people running Windows 10 (or still running Windows 7 *gasp*) for a very long time past Micro$oft's proposed sunset date for W10.

The most insane thing of all is Micro$oft not adding a feature to their "PC Health Check" app do the leg work and return the meta-data from users running it to build a database of supported hardware that way.

Alternatively they could use their insider builds to harvest meta-data on compatability from people running those (they probably already are), because evidently Micro$oft have only tested the last two generations of cpus and nothing prior to that, not even their own Surface books.

With that insider build datamining they could easily scrape that data back to Redmond and at least begin to formulate a database of compatible hardware from that data in addition to their "PC Health Check" app, which in turn would allow them to better inform their userbase of potential hardware vs. software conflicts preventing them upgrading their operating system to the latest patched version.

That would potentially allow the big OEM's to inform their clients (and regular users to infrom themselves) whether they need to upgrade their entire inventory of office computers this year, next year or within the next five years, thereby saving everyone a lot of hassle and expense, although that may be part of their plan, we are talking about Micro$oft here after all.

[katrinab]

Re: Forcing hardware upgrades in the midst of a global silicon glut, how to do PR the Micro$oft way.

glut

noun

An excessively abundant supply of something.

The current silicon situation in the world is the complete opposite of that.

[LybsterRoy]

Re: Forcing hardware upgrades in the midst of a global silicon glut, how to do PR the Micro$oft way.

Several W7 PCs here. The compatibility check won't even run on then

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Forcing hardware upgrades in the midst of a global silicon glut, how to do PR the Micro$oft way.

You clearly missed the article where Microsoft signed off on a rootkit, a TPM 2.0 Chip makes no difference whatsoever if Microsoft don't check the code they are signing off, on.

TPM 2.0 is only as good as the security Microsoft have in place on checking/validating code that becomes part of the OS, and regarding the signing of this rootkit, what seems apparent, is that there was none.

TPM 2.0 seems more about locking down what you can do wtth your PC with Windows 11 installed, rather than securing it from malware, as here, with Microsoft failing to check/validate code that they've signed.

Importantly looking ahead:

With Windows 12, Microsoft get to decide which hardware is supported because they control the TPM 2.0 chip. In a word, it's a massive power grab.

[ibmalone]

Re: Forcing hardware upgrades in the midst of a global silicon glut, how to do PR the Micro$oft way.

Yes, one thing that struck me about the "rootkit" was it required admin to install and appeared to be intended to let gamers spoof location. That is, the real crime is trying to escape corporation control. (And of course it keylogged, because the kind of people who write this stuff are often dodgy.)

This may turn out to be a factor, when people realise their older hardware running linux can do things they are no longer allowed on newer hardware. The same way I still own a RPC-1 DVD drive.

[drankinatty]

Why I don't look forward to version updates anymore....

Having used DOS before windows, Windows 286, 386, 3.0, 3.1, 3.1a, ...., I must admit the anticipation of a new Windows release is not quite what it used to be.... The "newness" of things in each release haven't been "new features" providing needed capabilities, but more "new gimmicks". (I still have no clue what the 3D Object Folder is for, though the God folder is nice...)

Maybe we expect to much. The DOS 3.3 to 4.01 jump was huge, no longer being limited to 32M partitions was great, but it is been many windows versions since I have been able to point to something new and say "how did we ever live without that?". To be fair, the desktop has matured and stabilized for windows and Linux (which has been my primary desktop since 2001, though I have a dozen or so windows boxes as well)

At least we have rounded-corners to look forward to in Windows 11 (something I think we go in windows 95). If they really want to wake Windows 11 up, maybe Aero comes back... We shall see.

[LovesTha]

Re: Why I don't look forward to version updates anymore....

Getting past 2G partitions was also good....

[ThatOne]

Re: Why I don't look forward to version updates anymore....

> At least we have rounded-corners to look forward to in Windows 11

And new themes and new sounds! What else do you need to be happy?...

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows 11 hardware requirements

are no more onerous or unreasonable than expecting the family of a condemned man to pay for his own Firing Squad's bullets.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Windows 11 hardware requirements

That's too high a price to pay, even for Rounded Corners ®.

[elsergiovolador]

Re: Windows 11 hardware requirements

Cut Corners ® was taken away by government

[SotarrTheWizard]

Re: Windows 11 hardware requirements

. . .Because Running with Windows is ***far*** more dangerous than Running with Scissors (evil grin)

[MachDiamond]

None for me, thanks

TPM does nothing for me at all so I really don't care to have it. It may wind up being a huge problem which just makes me want to stay with what I have that works for far longer.

There is so much hardware that is now useless but still works fine. If the developing world could buy those machines second hand and still have them able to be used albeit much more slowly, the world would be a much better place. As it is, all of the functional but deprecated hardware is shipped to third world country's waste heaps where the plastic is burned to recover the metals. How good is that for the planet?

[ThatOne]

Re: None for me, thanks

> How good is that for the planet?

Who cares about the planet? Your career and bonus are the only things of any importance: You'll live another (let's say) 40 years, and you want to spend those with a yacht at Monaco, a couple Italian sports cars, and a penthouse overlooking Central Park. Hard (business)men don't give a damn what happens after they bite the dust.

[eldakka]

Re: None for me, thanks

> There is so much hardware that is now useless but still works fine. If the developing world could buy those machines second hand and still have them able to be used albeit much more slowly, the world would be a much better place.

This is already a thing and has been for decades. If you ever go to a computer auction and wondering who is snapping up those pallets of 50 5-year old computers, switches, routers and so on, it's businesses that are doing exactly that - shipping them off to 3rd-world countries to be used in schools, government offices, private businesses, and so on. They don't need the most recent version of windows, or the most modern version of Adobe Photoshop, etc.

[AnoniMouse]

Silicon Valley's post pandemic recovery plan

So there we have it: the tech cartel pulls together its excessive and unaccountable might to tell the world that it WILL buy new hardware and new software to replace something that, for most users, ain't broke.

No doubt a pleasing prospect for the IT industry but less so for everyone else attempting post-pandemic recovery.

Meanwhile, shedloads of perfectly serviceable hardware will be prematurely consigned to the scrap-heap.

But perhaps it's unreasonable to expect an industry that "mines" money out of pointless energy consumption to care about needless waste.

[elsergiovolador]

Re: Silicon Valley's post pandemic recovery plan

There are still many people believing in Keynesian economics and broken window theorem. It's going to work though, at least in the US, as long as they can print more money unchallenged.

[ITMA]

Re: Silicon Valley's post pandemic recovery plan

My reply to the cartel involves sex and travel in bold capitals with day-glo yellow highlighting.....

[eldakka]

Re: Silicon Valley's post pandemic recovery plan

> So there we have it: the tech cartel pulls together its excessive and unaccountable might to tell the world that it WILL buy new hardware and new software to replace something that, for most users, ain't broke.

But no-one, not even Miscrosoft, is forcing anyone to upgrade to Windows 11. Windows 10 still has at least 4 more years of support, till 2025. If your current computer can't handle windows 11, then it is probably more than 3 years old, which means with the 4 more years of win10 support means it'll be at least 7 years old - if not older if it is more than 3 years old already - by the time you might need windows 11, assuming Microsoft doesn't offer security updates after that four-year support window closes in 2025.

AFAIK, there is nothing compelling in windows 11 that 'hurts' if you don't have it. Windows 10 had DX12 if you are a gamer, which wasn't going to be in Windows 8, but again, that mattered really only to gamers. I haven't seen anything, yet, as marginally compelling as going to win10 for DX12 that would prompt a windows 11 upgrade.

Apart from some business/professional cases (e.g. you work with windows so are expected to have Win11), the only reason to upgrade existing systems to Win11 would be for a "keeping up with the Jonses"-type situation. You want the latest, grooviest thing, not that you need it, not that it makes any practical sense to upgrade to it.

[keithpeter]

Re: Silicon Valley's post pandemic recovery plan

@eldakka

So domestic users of Windows 10 won't get forced updates to Windows 11? No system tray nags?

[ITMA]

Re: Silicon Valley's post pandemic recovery plan

"But no-one, not even Miscrosoft, is forcing anyone to upgrade to Windows 11."

That was said about Windows 10 - but Microsoft went ahead and did it anyway.

That decision made "New Coke" seem like a rip-roaring success.

[Swordfish1]

And MS expect everyone to upgrade systems with TPM 2.0

My Sabertooth MB, has a 20 pin connector, for such a device

Our laptop won't as its 12 years old, but is running the latest version of windows 10

My wife's computer, I'll have to checkout the pinout on the MB - its the original Ryzen ROG MB, Asus - Crosshero IV .

If worst comes to the worst, I'll install Chrome on the Laptop, and Ubuntu or Lime on the PC's, and just dump MS

I've not used Chrome, but I used to have Linux software tri-booting on my PC, so I can handle the likes of Ubuntu, and Lime.

MS - not everyone can afford to replace their main boards , and all associated stuff such as CPU's RAM, etc

I can afford a suitable TPM chip, but those have rocketed in price, and we do need a tool, that checks your system, and point you in the right direction, regarding a suitable TPM, for a particular system.

Much like what memory manufactures do, like Crucial- Download a tool, and it scans your system, and recommends a compatible device.

Otherwise MS, you can stick your Windows 11 update

Very pissed off CS

[Anonymous Coward]

M$ are clearly signalling the upgrade path from Windows 7 & 10

to Linux. No new hardware required.

[Malcolm 1]

Most likely that your wife's computer already has TPM 2.0 in the form of fTPM integrated into the processor (enable it from the BIOS). But ... if it's a first-gen Ryzen CPU then it's not currently on the supported list for reasons Microsoft have so far not elaborated on.

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps Intel outbid AMD in the 'Bung' stage.

[Dave K]

Yeah, that's the bit I don't get. I have a 1st gen Ryzen 7 system (a self-build) and after enabling fTPM in the BIOS, it does pass the TPM part of the check. But of course it then fails on the fact that my CPU isn't on the supported list. Not quite sure why an 8 core 3.4GHz CPU that is under 4 years old is considered to be "unsupported" by MS, maybe they're just being lazy here.

The interesting part will be to see if MS's installer further down the line checks and blocks installation onto such silicon or not.

[Boothy]

Interesting.

I've got an Asrock X570 mobo, with a TPM header (and no module fitted), and a Zen 2 CPU (3800X).

Going into the CPU config in the UEFI and I turned on fTPM.

Boot back into the OS (Win 10 in my case, gaming PC mainly), and a TPM 2.0 device now shows up in Devices, tpm.msc now shows TPM is active, as does the Settings page for the processor security.

No idea if this would work for Win 11 though, but might be worth a first shot rather than buying a TPM module.

[eldakka]

> if it's a first-gen Ryzen CPU then it's not currently on the supported list for reasons Microsoft have so far not elaborated on.

Well, being on the supported list means they have actually tested it. How many combinations of the thousands of CPU SKUs, hundreds of chipset SKUs released in the last decade do you think Microsoft should test? How many years back? 3, 5, 10, 20?

Windows 10 still has 4 more years of support, therefore Microsoft probably chose its CPU test set from a combination of age, quantity (number of tests they want to do), likliehood of ever running windows 11 - 6 year old CPU running windows 10 has 4 more years of support, making it a 10 year old CPU by the time windows 10 support runs out, how many people are likely to need to install windows 11 on a 10 year old CPU, certainly greater than zero, but enough to justify spending millions of dollars on testing 5 years, 6 years , 7 years or older CPUs?

At some point they have to draw the line of how far back - taking into account 4 more years of windows 10 support for systems they don't certify for 11 - they will go back and test.

Not to mention that the current support list is the current support list. It would surprise me if that list doesn't grow over time as they get around to - or allow other parties to certify, e.g. Dell - other systems.

[cornetman]

> Well, being on the supported list means they have actually tested it. How many combinations of the thousands of CPU SKUs, hundreds of chipset SKUs released in the last decade do you think Microsoft should test? How many years back? 3, 5, 10, 20?

Well if you're talking about AMD, actually not that many really, even going back to Zen 1.

[eldakka]

> Well if you're talking about AMD, actually not that many really, even going back to Zen 1.

Right, which is why recent CPUs are being tested. They've got Zen+ and newer on the support list, they just haven't gone back to Zen 1. That's where they've drawn the line, newer than Zen 1. But if you include Intel CPUs, and ARM64 ones, even back to Zen 1+ (2018ish) is hundreds of different SKUs across AMD and Intel.

For AMD, that's 16 desktop CPUs (Ryzen 3 1200 -> Threadripper 2990WX), 18 desktop APUs (from Athlon Pro 300GE to Ryzen 5 Pro 3400G), and 14 mobile CPUs (Ryzen 3 3300U to Ryzen 7 3780U). Thats 48 CPUs for one generation from one vendor. Intel would have had even more. Spread that across 3 generations over that period, and you are talking hundreds of SKUs to test.

Could they have gone back to Zen 1? Sure. But then they'd have had to do the equivalent Intel generation as well. And why only Zen 1? Why not complain that they aren't testing 2011 Bulldozer/Sandy Bridge CPUs?

All of those systems/CPUs they haven't tested with Windows 11 are perfectly happy on 10, and will be for at least the remaining 4 years of Microsoft's WIn10 support window, by which time all of those systems will be over 8 years old.

[eldakka]

> MS - not everyone can afford to replace their main boards , and all associated stuff such as CPU's RAM, etc

> I can afford a suitable TPM chip, but those have rocketed in price, and we do need a tool, that checks your system, and point you in the right direction, regarding a suitable TPM, for a particular system.

You don't need a TPM chip. Why? Because there is no compelling reason to upgrade to Windows 11 within the next 4 years.

Windows 10 is supported until 2025.

Most computers sold in the last 3 years (more like 4, but being safe) that aren't the absolute bottom-rung models, have built-in chipset/firmware-based TPM functionality that satisfies the TPM requirement, once you've gone into the UEFI and switched it on that is (most systems seem to have it defaulted to off/disabled).

Sure, in 2025, if you haven't already replaced incompatible computers that will be more than 7 years old by then, you then might need to go find a TPM module. But you have 4 more years to make that decision.

[LybsterRoy]

I'm still shuddering from the 64GB disk requirement. I know disk (HDD or SSD) is cheapish but what rubbish are they sticking on there?

My W7 install on my main laptop, complete with hiberfile, swap file, Office, WordPerfect Office, Delphi D2007 (loads of 3rd party components), etc etc still comes to under 32GB

Does anyone have a breakdown of the stuff taking up 62GB?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not exactly for your benefit,

In a word: Telemetry/Auditing.

Microsoft need space to store all this data collecting, they do. 7GB of diskspace 'headroom' alone is allocated/reserved for Windows Update in Windows 10, just so it doesn't fail from lack of disk space.

https://www.theregister.com/2019/01/08/windows_10_reserved_storage/

[ThatOne]

> Does anyone have a breakdown of the stuff taking up 62GB?

Crappy programming and lack of optimization can turn any small footprint into a huge one.

Heck, some time in the distant past I was given a floppy disk booting a full QNX OS, with a full graphical user interface, a fully functional network stack, a text editor and a web browser - All that off a single 1.44 MB floppy! I know it's not as simple as that, but one would be very tempted to think that everything beyond 1.5 MB is pure bloat...

[Boothy]

Part of it might be the periodic full updates Windows does, assuming it's going to be the same process as with Windows 10.

Some of the bigger updates basically do a full reinstall of Windows to a fresh 'Windows' directory (you can find a Windows.old directory hanging around for a while afterwards, basically your old installation as far as I know (or at least a subset of it). It can be used to 'recover' back to the older release if you have issues.

It gets housekept after a few days (a week I think), but it does mean Windows can basically double in size periodically.

The 'Windows' folder typically seems to be around 20-25GiB for Win 10, so you might need double that during a major 'feature' release.

[Anonymous Coward]

@"Windows.old directory"

left over for rolling back changes same as windows upgrades

[Splurg The Barbarian]

No Offline Account Support

Reading through that article and the list of minimum requirements and its not the hardware requirements that jump out, rather the fact it states Microsoft account required for Windows 11 Home.

I run Enterprise at home with it being the only version of 10 (not including Education which is basically Enterprise) that can be blocked from sending everything back to the mothership. Microsoft have been making it more and more "difficult" to refuse the online account over time and if one of these accounts is an essential part of this OS then there is no way I'd use or recommend this to others.

This is purely on point of principle as for me there should be an option for the owner of a device to not be an unpaid tester/data source or a continual income stream for MS. It would be back to Linux for me as my daily driver.

[Ozzard]

Check out Pi-Hole - run on a VM if necessary

Our remaining Windows boxen and VMs are finding they're having a hard time of it reporting telemetry back to the mothership; they suddenly can't resolve any of the DNS names. Might have something to do with me blocking 53 outbound for anything except the household DNS server, which is running Pi-Hole... *innocent whistle*

Ad-free on mobile is another blessed relief.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Check out Pi-Hole - run on a VM if necessary

Has any kind soul published a list of Host names that M$ uses for Win10 Telemetry, together with any IP addresses that M$ may have hardcoded to avoid DNS lookups?

[AnotherName]

Re: Check out Pi-Hole - run on a VM if necessary

It's difficult. I used to block various advertising sites via my hosts file that were used by MS Store desktop games like Mah-Jong, but within a short time the ads were back as they either had the IPs hard-coded to avoid DNS lookups or had a list of alternate addresses they could use. Eventually I stopped using the games - it was the easiest option.

[Recluse]

Re: Check out Pi-Hole - run on a VM if necessary

I run a Windows 10 VM (to cater for a few necessary programs - e.g. Microsoft Money) within a Linux Mint desktop. I also run pfsense with the pfblockerNG add on - this provides a DNS sink hole capability as well as IP blocking.

Originally I just added every combination of Microsoft DNS associated names to the sink hole, but still there appeared to be a lot of data being extracted.

I eventually (as far as I can tell) blocked this by adding every Microsoft ASN number I could find (currently 29 in my list) to the IP blocker within pfblockerNG.

Every time I boot the VM my firewall logs fill up with attempted connections to Microsoft allocated IP addresses.

Moral if story - if you want to block Microsoft do it at the IP level

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Check out Pi-Hole - run on a VM if necessary

@"Moral if story - if you want to block Microsoft do it at the IP level" dont forget to disable IP6 as well or you are wasting your time

[Recluse]

Re: Check out Pi-Hole - run on a VM if necessary

I basically block anything Microsoft related at my pfsense firewall until such time as I need to update my Windows VM at which point I temporarily enable access.

Note there are wider implications in blocking Microsoft eg Azure hosted websites etc. This can be overcome by segmenting your network devices into access lists - appreciate I am a bit of a tin foil hat in this regard. Unfortunately privacy requires some effort (and occasional inconvenience).

ASN numbers listed for Microsoft shown here

https://whois.arin.net/rest/org/MSFT/asns

If you are using pfsense firewall this article describes how to block ASN numbers

https://dannyda.com/2021/04/22/how-to-block-asn-autonomous-system-number-with-pfsense-firewall-how-to-block-an-organization-using-pfsense/

[LenG]

Move on folks, nothing of interest here

My brand new home-build (AMD 5950 cpu, 32GB memory, 8TB local SSD storage) failed the compatibility checker because I have not enabled TPM. Hopefully that means the upgrade process will not badger me with advice to switch to Win11. Not that I could anyway as I do not have a M$ account.

Win 10 no longer makes installation without such an account easy, as I discovered when I attempted to install Win 10 pro on my new build recently. However this is easily bypassed by disconnecting from the internet at the appropriate time. I'll be curious to know if this works with Win 11 when it is generally available, but not so curious as to actually attempt the upgrade.

I can see myself like some of the Win7 diehards, still running this OS for the forseeable future. Mind I mostly use it for games - any significant / sensitive work is done on an ancient Intel NUC running linux.

I have to honestly say that of the list of new features there is nothing I want. Of the other changes described I applaud the removal of live tiles but Classic shell does that for me anyway. As for "lively interactive animations", the very thought brings me out in hives.

[DailyLlama]

TPM

Does China still ban TPM chips on devices sold there?

If so, how is any PC in China expected to upgrade?

[AnotherName]

Useless checker

I ran the upgrade checker on my HP laptop (i7 gen 8 with TPM 2.0) running Win10Pro in a domain. All it tells me is that my updates are controlled by the domain admin (me) and doesn't tell me if it is upgradable or not. I know it probably is, but I won't be able to check my wife's older HP laptop - which probably isn't upgradable - in the same domain for the same reason.

As I'm not asking for it to install the upgrade, what is the point of not telling me if it is upgradable or not? I think I'll move both of us over to ZorinOS that I'm already running on another laptop and drop out of the MS Partner Network for good.

[mark l 2]

I expect MS will back track on the TPM requirements for upgrading from Windows 10 when the number of upgrades gets nowhere near their expectations due to peoples PCs not meeting the minimum requirement.

There will be 10s of millions of PCs (some only shipped recently) that do not have a TPM or it is disabled in the BIOS. Most end users don't even know how to get into their BIOS to enable it even if they have a TPM, not helped by the fact that each manufacturer has their own key press combination to get into the setup.

From years of trying to talk users over the phone into entering the BIOS, they get frustrated with missing the 1 or 2 second window in which they key press is recognised before the PC start to boot to the OS. And so I expect people will just stick with Windows 10 rather than upgrade if the upgrade utility says their PC don't meet the minimum specs.

[Ilgaz]

They know

I think MS really knows the amount of machines with TPM 2.0 and CPU generations. The amount of telemetry in Windows 10 is absurd and 98% of people won't bother to disable it.

There is already a part of Windows showing TPM status, check tpm.msc .

[PRR]

Re: They know

> confident that Intel eighth-generation Core processors, ...more uncertain with Intel seventh-generation Core chips

And that is another thing. I am not a genealogist. I know what a "2G Mustang" is (1967) but how would a mere user know what "begat" is in the machine?? It's not on the box. It's not in the manual. Generation is not in the About Computer popup. I doubt it is in the BIOS/POST which anyway goes by too fast for my eye.

Since I used to know some of this stuff, I know where to find that I have a "Pentium G3220". WhatEVER that is. (I know: old and cheap. I'm retired.) The Intel ARK site lists the CPU but not what generation it is/was.

I can not imagine WHAT could "require" a newer CPU. There are a few newer technologies but checks and patches already exist in the compilers. (I remember when a math coprocessor was optional and a whole bucket of opcodes had to be slowly emulated.) TPM already foot-shot by signing a rootkit.

It's sad. I'm trailing-edge because they don't sell what I want. I would spend real money with Microsoft, Intel, and Dell/etal, if they offered a slightly faster machine, of no onerous specs, and deep support of legacy software and accessories. But instead they have got about $130 of my money this *decade*. (One $55 CPU, one Windows.)

[Alan Edwards]

TPM is required

A TPM is required, which leaves me in the weird situation that my decades old laptop (T510 witth a Core i5-540 and a TPM) could run Windows 11 but not really like it, but my Core i7-6700 desktop could easily run it but can't because it doesn't have a TPM. I guess it'll run Windows 10 until it dies...

[Plest]

Can't see any real positives from this.

1. Old boxes dumped down at the local council dump next to the e-waste skip, ultimately to end up on a third-world beach.

2. A shedload of out of date Win10 boxes still out there, still running critical stuff because the box in question cannot be switched off. Ticking security timebombs.

3. For those with the cash - Off to the Apple store.

4. For those with tech nous - Off to the nearest Linux distro website to find a suitable distro they will use all day long from now on.

When was the last time you got excited about a new Windows release? Win95? Windows XP? Windows 7? What does Win11 have that could possibly entice people to bother upgrading other than the threat of being cut off and having their Win10 shut down in front of them.

Now how many of you out there still have that really old box out there that's running old software where the dev has long since vanished and never left the source behind? The software was coded in 2004, only runs on Win7/Win10, no one has the source to attempt an update and rebuild and therefore "ain't broke, don't fix" will be the battle cry of IT depts all over the world.

Nice idea, better security through the TPM thing and I appreciate MS have to be shown to care about securing their software but ultimately this is simply going to be a rough time for MS.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Can't see any real positives from this.

"that could possibly entice people to bother upgrading other than the threat of being cut off"

Has there been any other reason to upgrade Windows since XP, 20 years ago?

New themes, stupid animations and shuffling the GUI about is all we got since, resulting in some user-friendliness jewels like Vista and Windows 8 every other time.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Can't see any real positives from this.

DX11. Way better than 9.

[fidodogbreath]

Re: Can't see any real positives from this.

A shedload of out of date Win10 boxes still out there, still running critical stuff because the box in question cannot be switched off. Ticking security timebombs.

Windows 10 is still supported with semi-annual releases until October 2025. Security updates might even continue beyond that. So there's a bit of time before the apocalypse.

[Colonel Mad]

Motherboards may have a TPM header, but most modern CPU's have a baked in TMP that just needs enabling in the BIOS.

[karlkarl]

---------------

El Reg was also surprised to find that when Windows 11 turned up on the Insider programme, its release number was... 10."

--------------

Hmm, that *is* surprising. It should probably say 6. After all, I can count the number of actual changes since Vista on one thumb.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: I can count the number of actual changes since Vista on one thumb.

It's difficult to count either way...

Widgets are back!

[ColonelClaw]

So, if Win11 doesn't support PCs older than 2015 (or whatever the year is, I have no idea), then does that mean that MS has taken the opportunity to strip out all of the old legacy code and drivers, thus slimming the OS down to a lean and mean athlete? That would be an actual positive!

I'm not holding my breath...

[fidodogbreath]

does that mean that MS has taken the opportunity to strip out all of the old legacy code and drivers, thus slimming the OS down to a lean and mean athlete?

If they did, we all know what the reaction would be, at least from some quarters. "HOW DARE THEY eliminate support for Arcnet and Token Ring!! How will we connect our PS/2s and Amigas? What's next -- forced upgrades from Netware over thick coax? This is nothing more than a shameless a cash grab!"

[Steve Evans]

The list of non-approved CPUs includes Xeons from this year!

[fidodogbreath]

Windows 10 20H1 supposedly requires a 6th-gen Core processor. I currently have an i7 2600K running 20H1 very smoothly thankyouverymuch. Last night Windows Update prompted me to install (the also incompatible) 21H2 on it.

We also have an old Lenovo laptop running 20H1 quite well on a 4th-gen Core i5. Both boxen have SSDs and 8GB RAM. Neither has secure boot enabled.

This might be a deal like Windows 10, where TPM and other hardware are required in order to enable specific features in Windows 11, but not to run the OS itself. Just my own speculation.

[ITMA]

They just don't learn....

You would think that Mickeysoft would have learned a few things from the last time they messed about with the Start Menu to such as degree - and that went SO WELL didn't it.... NOT!

[Michael Wojcik]

a sense of what now?

"adds a sense of liveliness irritation through interaction animations"

FTFY.

You know what I find makes an OS seem "lively"? Not wasting resources on pointless crap, such as animations.

30 years ago my PC RT, with a tiny fraction of the resources available to a modern Wintel box, was generally more responsive than my Dell laptop running Win10.

[logicalextreme]

Re: a sense of what now?

Innit. On the (now thankfully very rare) occasions that I have to show somebody how to do something in Excel and remember that it now comes with animations turned on by default, my reaction is always "you use this application every day and just put up with this?!". It's alarming how few people even bother asking if something can go faster.

[ThatOne]

Re: a sense of what now?

Tue, yet people eventually have to accept the inevitability of fate: Death, taxes and Microsoft GUI fads... You end up being grateful you're still able to do your work, somehow.

[Anonymous Coward]

Wrong issue to address. What about the horrid UI/UX. That is a much bigger problem. I don't want to relearn my OS again for the 3 time in as many OS releases. Should've known that these weren't anywhere need final and there wasn't need to panic. First of all, that RAM requirement is way too low. You need at least 8GB of RAM for Win 10 to run right. 16GB for best results. Second, the processor requirement was incredibly vague. 1 gigahertz (GHz) or faster with 2 or more cores on a compatible 64-bit processor. I think I have an old Athlon x64 that would meet that requirement. I doubt 11 would install on it.

[LastTangoInParis]

Thanks for the (more) memory

Win 10 and now Win 7 both need 8 GB RAM to even boot and run Windows Updates. I’ve lost count of how many relatives and friends have asked me to take a look at their unusable Windows laptops, desktops etc that were all fixed by upgrading from 3 or 4 GB. For what exactly? So MS can foist more crappy code on us?

[Jim-234]

Perhaps this is how Microsoft wants to make sure they get a new windfall of revenue.

So Windows 10 was basically promised to be "free" upgrades for the "supported life of the system"...

So how do you get everybody to have to pay Microsoft for an OS upgrade?

Force the system to be "past the supported life".

Put in some requirements that block all but the latest systems that Microsoft just got licence fee money for, with some bogus hardware requirements and lists.

Microsoft gets to collect new license fees, and the customers get to have to purchase a whole new PC so Microsoft can get their cut. It wouldn't do for Microsoft to just simply charge you for Windows 11 and let you keep using your perfectly good PC now would it?

[Fruit and Nutcase]

If Apple can force users to upgrade

So can we!

[Steve Evans]

CPU requirements...

The CPU requirements are a joke.

My dual Xeon workstation is rejected for the CPU(s)...

24 cores just doesn't seem enough for Windows 11, and I've got more RAM than the minimum hard drive requirement!

I can easily run half a dozen Windows 10 VMs, with generous RAM allocation, on the same machine.

There is no way a machine like this is going in a landfill!

I guess there'll be no curved corners in my windows future.

(I don't think I own a single machine that will meet the requirements).

[ThatOne]

Re: CPU requirements...

> I don't think I own a single machine that will meet the requirements

You're not supposed to own it, you're supposed to buy it.

[Jonjonz]

64Gig Storage, You Bet!

i can only imagine how much bloat ware it takes to pad out an OS install to 64 gig.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: 64Gig Storage, You Bet!

PS. Think you can just buy an external with X terabytes to meet the storage requirements, too bad, MS won't let Windows install on external drives.

[AnoniMouse]

The tech cartel is abusing its monopoly!

Only in a world where "mining" value requires huge amounts of energy to be wasted on pointless computation could we allow an industry sector to unilaterally declare that users will be required to replace perfectly usable hardware and software just in order to maintain the revenue streams of the industry sector.

[Miss Config]

W11 as 'Phone' ?!

Apologies for being fick if I've missed it here but the question for me is :

will Windows 11 work in such a way that, in terms of using apps, it can replace a smartphone ?

Says someone who does not have a smartphone.