back to article Developing for Windows 11: Like developing for Windows 10, but with rounded corners?

Microsoft has been hyping the versatility of Windows 11 for developers, from Android to Linux to Progressive Web Applications and the new Win UI 3, though much of what it showed last week also applies to Windows 10. Kevin Gallo, Developer Platform Corporate VP, said last week that "Windows 11 is for all developers." That is a …

  1. Maximus Delfango
    Boffin

    When asked why it took so long to release Windows 11, a Microsoft spokesperson said "we had to spend a lot of time to find enough Microsoft staff willing to hold down the old pig so we could apply some more lipstick to it."

    "At both ends this time," they helpfully added.

    1. Paul Herber Silver badge

      but now it's a penguin-pig.

      1. wolfetone Silver badge

        A piguin?

        1. Paul Herber Silver badge

          could be, I'm just winging it here!

    2. gfx

      win 10

      As for windowdressing, computer at work was hiding known file extenstions dug around a bit found the settings window and it was exactly the same as the one in Win 7 or maybe even XP.

      1. FIA Silver badge

        Re: win 10

        I think it goes back to NT4.

        It's okay though, in Windows 11 it has nice rounded corners.

        1. Mike Lewis

          Re: win 10

          Never mind the quality, feel the width.

          1. Brewster's Angle Grinder Silver badge
            Paris Hilton

            Re: win 10

            Never mind the quality, fondle it's curves.

            Paris, because...

        2. redpawn Silver badge

          Re: win 10

          Eleven is a nice round number.

  2. elsergiovolador Silver badge

    Windows 11 the IE6 of operating systems?

    Has anyone seen the dumpster fire that is Teams for Linux?

    I hope nobody uses Windows to develop anything for Linux...

    1. Maximus Delfango

      Re: Windows 11 the IE6 of operating systems?

      "Has anyone seen the dumpster fire that is Teams".

      You could've stopped right there.

    2. Snake Silver badge

      I'm impressed

      Almost no one is actually running Windows 11, yet the fear / demonisation / dismissal of it has already kicked up into full gear.

      Can we say "Let's wait and see what it brings?, if only for a single *day*, before we drag it out back and shoot it??

      1. FIA Silver badge

        Re: I'm impressed

        First impressions... a new layout for the lock screen, some UI tweaks, rounded corners, and a much better settings app. Otherwise, once you turn off centralised task bar icons it's pretty much the same.

      2. Throatwarbler Mangrove Silver badge
        Windows

        Re: I'm impressed

        Are you kidding? A new version of Windows is like catnip to the Reg's Microsoft-haters brigade. It's already the worst piece of software ever written; this much is known as an article of faith.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I'm impressed .... NOT !!!

        Snake,

        If it is anything like Windows 10, it is the kindest thing to do !!!

        Windows 10 has suffered for 5 years (or was that just me !!!) and is now awaiting the final bolt to the head.

        Windows 11 by all accounts is Windows 10 + Marketing + 'Rounded Corners' ..... do you want to suffer again !!!

        Windows 'Fischer Price' version AKA Window 'Meh' is not what anyone needs !!!

        1. Snake Silver badge

          Re: Windows 10

          Yes, it's just you :-P

          Windows 10 is far more stable than even Win7 was, with far fewer reports of BSOD's (I do not believe I have experienced one myself).

          I have begun to believe that people with problems are the ones that upgraded in-place from Win7; fresh Win 10 installations are quite stable. Indeed, the first time I've done a wipe-and-replace on am entire partition in decades was on a Win 10 upgrade machine, but its symptoms ended up reading like a not sector corruption/virus, and as there was nothing on the drive but the OS it was a time saver to kill it off and start again.

          Win10 is an overall improvement over any Windows before it. It gets hate for 2 reasons really: updates and telemetry. If you want, both can be controlled to the best of our abilities with ShutUp, so it's really not a problem if you just take a few minutes of research to find answers

        2. bombastic bob Silver badge
          Facepalm

          Re: I'm impressed .... NOT !!!

          but if they hype the marketing for LONG ENOUGH, they can announce something new+shiny (that's really just trivial) with great fanfare like it's truly an epic event, with shock and awe and hordes of newly converted fanboi customers stampeding to the local retailer to purchase it...

          (Or so it MIGHT be if they MADE IT LOOK LIKE WINDOWS 7 and got rid of "SETTINGS" and the SPYING and the ADS, though keeping the 'rounded corners' would be allowable)

          icon, because, facepalm

      4. Geoff Campbell
        Go

        Re: I'm impressed

        You're new here, aren't you?

        Yup, I quite agree. I'm running 11 now, and I rather like it. I'm also running it on a couple of machines that aren't on the quite restrictive HCL, interestingly.

        GJC

        1. Snake Silver badge

          Re: New here

          Just the opposite :p

          But you need to step lightly in regards to the Windows / Linux discussion here, as Linux/OSS-heads just never want to admit that their wunderOS is not, repeat NOT, a desktop operating system. And fundamentally it never will be.

          Linux Desktop, in all its iterations, is a mutliuser server kernel with a windowing server thrown on top. The same paradigm as DOS & Win3.11. But as the world left that behind decades ago, OSS-heads still believe that the world is interested in maintaining that. Drop into the CLI to manage your disks. Is the CLI configuration file/script set up properly to allow the GUI to start at all?? Did you install all your necessary drivers at the CLI before you started the GUI, and did the GUI find the device? Or, are you using the GUI interface to get the job done and does it actually work as required??

          Desktop OS's have a fundamentally different paradigm than a server OS, and is developed with completely different compromises. Simple user experience is key, and compromises are often made to the user's benefit over the OS's demands (security, for example).

          Windows is a desktop OS and, as a comment on another active thread proves, with a direct cut-and-paste quote,

          "Nor does the built-in window manager need to be 2D FLATTY FLATASS FLATSO (with NO other choice available), instead of the 3D Skeuomorphic appearance that actually SOLD WINDOWS TO THE PUBLIC in the FIRST PLACE

          (with 54 upvotes and 10 down)

          is that a desktop OS, especially Windows, is criticized for just about *everything*. It's too glitzy. It's not glitzy enough. I has the wrong color palate. It doesn't offer the color palate I prefer. It doesn't have good enough CLI administration. It has too much GUI administration. It's animation is behind the times. It's animation it too resource intensive. It doesn't come with enough built-in apps. The built-in apps are too bloated / not feature-rich enough. It lost driver support on legacy hardware. The drivers aren't stable enough. It doesn't offer enough security. The security inconveniences the user too much.

          Should I go on?? All those and more have been the complaints leveled against every Microsoft OS since Win7.

          Anyway, biatching about Linux only gets the Faithful started. Heaven forbid that you discuss Windows in an actually-balanced light.

          1. Geoff Campbell
            Windows

            Re: New here

            Yup, all of that, and more.

            I've never understood why people get so wound up about an OS. It is what it is, it works, and it works better than the alternatives (FTAOD, I don't see MacOS and Windows as direct competitors, given the vertical integration Apple have enforced down the years - two very different approaches, of which the Microsoft approach suits me better).

            <shrug> I can't help coming to the conclusion that a lot of this is simply about badly shaved apes allowing their tribal subconscious to rule their more rational side.

            GJC

          2. bombastic bob Silver badge
            Devil

            Re: New here

            thanks for quoting me. But I think you missed the point. Linux is STILL a "desktop OS" because of how it's used. Windows is what it is because Micros~1 MADE it that way. And Micros~1 *STILL* does NOT respect what CUSTOMERS want, which is to have their OS be what THEY want it to be, and *NOT* what Micros~1 wants them to HAVE (by force, if necessary).

            Those complaints would disappear if Micros~1 would just STOP being so TYRANNICAL (one size fits all users, no exceptions), and *ALLOW* *USER* *CUSTOMIZATION* *AGAIN*, including the COMPLETE removal of spyware, NOT being forced to update, the Windows 7/XP/2000/9x appearance, "control panel only" vs Schizoid-Settings, and, my favorite, 3D SKEUOMORPHIC (or for the FLATTY fans, all 12 of them, that too. as an option, NOT default).

            Micros~1 lost touch with what sold Windows "as a desktop" back in the 90's. It had been available since the mid 80's, but nobody really wanted it. It wasn't until it went 3D SKEUOMORPHIC and had built-in games like Solitaire that people jammed the stores wanting to buy it. Micros~1 forgot that.

            At first, they EMBRACED what the public wanted.

            Then, they EXTENDED it to become 2k and XP, F'd up with Vista, but restored most of that in 7.

            Then they EXTINGUISHED the best parts, until it became 10.

            Whereas with OSS desktops, you have absolute FREEDOM as to how you want it to look and behave... by forking your own version, if there's not already enough to choose from.

            And, worth mentioning, I get MORE work done using FreeBSD or Linux than I've ever been able to do with Windows, even though I nearly always install Cygwin, which WSL has tried to compete with for some reason, I might add... ANYWAY, I somewhat-recently brought a ~17 year old laptop into a new contract where they had no Linux machines available, even though I had a W10 machine available to me, and was able to work FASTER and GET MORE DONE even though it only had 500mb of RAM and a 1Ghz processor - so 2 days later I was handed a spare W10 CPU box and I took it home and put Linux on it for them (installer running while I played games), brought it back the next day, and used it for on-site dev work for months, and it is still running at the moment for remote-in things. WSL on the W10 box did not help much at all.

            Yes. Linux _IS_ a "desktop OS" when it is used that way. And more.

            1. Snake Silver badge

              Re: Linux is a desktop OS

              But then, under that (mistaken) belief, so is Unix.

              And therefore we all should be have been using Unix Desktop for the past 3 decades, rather than be concerned with a Unix derivative, Linux.

              See how that works? Taking a server OS and topping it with a window server makes it 'desktop" in individual usage case, but not in design.

              There's verb, and then there's noun.

              In development, the Linux kernel is multiuser server. If [we] press it into single-user desktop use, with a windowing server, then that's our onus.

              1. Richard Plinston

                Re: Linux is a desktop OS

                > But then, under that (mistaken) belief, so is Unix.

                Of course it is. Mac is BSD (Unix) based and it is a great desktop system.

                > Taking a server OS and topping it with a window server makes it 'desktop"

                Windows NT was developed as a server OS, the original design included it being multi-user*. Windows NT 3.1 had a GUI, basically from Windows 3.1, added on top. The NT design still underlies all the subsequent versions of Window.

                > Linux kernel is multiuser server. If [we] press it into single-user desktop use

                Unix, Linux and Windows (post 3.11) are all pre-emptive multi-tasking kernels. The only difference in being multi-user is that the user id is attached to the process and this is checked against the various security settings and attributes. As Windows does this too then it is actually a multi-user kernel, it is just not simultaneously multi-user (except TSE and/or Citrix). It can swap users and may even be able to leave the original user with some idle processes until they swap back.

                * the multi-user bit was removed because Bill wanted to sell a copy to every user rather than one copy for a bunch of users. This was added back for TSE.

            2. matjaggard

              Re: New here

              As usual BOMBASTIC BOB you're talking nonsense in random CAPITALS.

              Just a couple of points you're very wrong on - Windows 11 is not there to make money from existing Windows users because it will be a free upgrade. Also WSL competes (if you can call it that) for a very good reason, specifically that you don't need to compile the application for Cygwin or WSL - you just run Linux applications in it. It is thousands of times better than Cygwin.

              Just for the record, I used Linux for 6 years as my development desktop but still used Windows occasionally too. Linux is better for filesystems - quite a bit faster compiling Java than Windows due to NTFS overheads but Linux is worse for quite a few things in the UI due I guess to the split between Gnome, GTK, KDE, QT or whatever. As another example nobody seems to have successfully made a UI tool for changing screen resolution that works.

          3. Richard Plinston

            Re: New here

            > Desktop OS's have a fundamentally different paradigm than a server OS,

            So, you are saying that Windows Server is crap!

            > Windows, is criticized for just about *everything* ... [rant on] ...

            Yeah, people want choice. One size does _not_ 'fit all'. Get over it.

            1. Snake Silver badge

              Re: Rant

              Of course one size does not fit all. Ranty Rant-a-Lot is what we're accusing Linux fans of, thank you for noticing. Not many people here get to rant about Linux without 100's of downvotes, sorry.

  3. elsergiovolador Silver badge

    The new slogan

    "Windows, let your ideas fly through it"

    Also Windows 11 version is valid in decimal, binary and roman literals, which signifies having Windows 10, Linux and Android on the same platform.

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: The new slogan

      "Windows, let your ideas fly through it"

      Like a bird

      1. runt row raggy

        Re: The new slogan

        like 80s pants.

        1. gerdesj Silver badge
          Windows

          Re: The new slogan

          One should keep one's pants to one's self. However, if one is trying to avoid the Front, then a couple of pencils will be required too.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: The new slogan

        Like a 'turd'

        Sounds a lot closer. Some people get a kick out of examining what is in animal turds. The MS W11 variety is nothing more than a package for ancient turds all dressed up with nowhere to go other than to stink the place to high heaven.

        Have a nice day.

        Where's me coffee...?

    2. Must contain letters

      Re: The new slogan

      And for crusty old geezers octal.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: The new slogan

        Binary

  4. BinkyTheMagicPaperclip

    Better hope they sort out the CPU and TPM support

    If it's as strict as currently being mooted, I can't see a mass of users upgrading their hardware to run Windows 11. The market needs to be large enough for developers to bother writing software for it.

    1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge
      Childcatcher

      Re: Better hope they sort out the CPU and TPM support

      OTOH,

      The PC makers will be gearing up for a bumper Crimble as the domestic lemmings all dash out to get the latest and greatest version of MS saga 'Lipstick on a Pig'.

      Cynical? you bet.

      TBH, I'm thinking of going to somewhere nice and remote for Christmas just so the relatives can't ask me for help getting their new PC to work 'just like the old one'. It is always the same with MS releases. They break lots and lots of stuff. This may be accidental but because it has gone on for so long I think it is deliberate.

    2. Boothy Silver badge

      Re: Better hope they sort out the CPU and TPM support

      I'd be interested in knowing just how many new devices are being built, that don't come with TPM 2.0 as standard.

      I've got a newish (about 19 months ago) build, based on an AMD AM4 X570 chipset mobo, this is still a current model and whilst it does have a TPM header, it does not come with a module fitted.

      Also no one seems to stock the module, I had a look yesterday. Some places list the module, but where they do, there is no stock (typically a 'Notify me' button). Has there been a rush on TPM 2.0 modules recently? Or are stockists just not ordering them?

      1. J27 Silver badge

        Re: Better hope they sort out the CPU and TPM support

        Modern AMD and Intel CPUs contain a TPM, you just need to turn it on on the BIOS.

      2. FIA Silver badge

        Re: Better hope they sort out the CPU and TPM support

        I've got a newish (about 19 months ago) build, based on an AMD AM4 X570 chipset mobo, this is still a current model and whilst it does have a TPM header, it does not come with a module fitted.

        Go into the BIOS, look for fTPM, enable it. That's the on-chip version, and is all that's required.

        IIRC it's on the CPU so it will depend on what you're running, but if it's 2xxx or newer Ryzen you should be okay. I'm on the same chipset with a 5xxx series CPU, win 11 installed just fine.

        Interestingly, after installing, went into the BIOS and disabled the TPM. Machine booted just fine. (I don't use bitlocker or similar though).

      3. BinkyTheMagicPaperclip

        Re: Better hope they sort out the CPU and TPM support

        There are some being sold, including (according to people online) Microsoft Surface devices that don't support Windows 11.

        Yes, there has been a run/scalping on TPM devices recently.

        The issue is existing devices, not new ones in general. Security improvements are laudable, but enforcing new hardware and associated environmental cost whilst Seattle swelters in a heatwave seems unwise.

        Windows 10 apparently worked on a pentium II, although I doubt you'd want to try that(!). On the other hand, my main system here which has 64GB RAM and twin CPUs probably isn't supported by Windows 11 despite having more than enough horsepower to run the majority of functionality.

        This needs to be a gradual change, where a TPM is used if it exists, but existing PCs with sufficient horsepower are also supported.

        This all stinks of collusion with hardware manufacturers. Microsoft should have learned from the Vista days, where they allowed manufacturers to weaken the Vista requirements to unusable levels. Unfortunately now they're going the other way.

  5. LDS Silver badge

    Why should I use a subpar mobile application on a desktop system?

    De Icaza shows once more how IT companies have been brought into a mobile reality distortion fields and became so fashion-driven they can no longer understand users real needs.

    Sure, it may be occasionally useful - I can already see my Samsung Phone screen on Windows 10, used it maybe twice to see how it worked - but if someone is using a desktop system it's because he or she needs full-fledged applications and not some pale imitation designed to run on a tiny screen and be usable with a finger.

  6. King Olaf

    Any new font will just be as useless as the last if l and I remain indistinguishable.

    1. Def Silver badge
      Coat

      What a ridiculous comment. When you zoom in, I is clearly one pixel wider than l.

      1. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Coat

        Ill be the judge of that... (apostrophe left out for effect)

  7. Elledan Silver badge
    Meh

    Rounded corners? How revolutionary!

    Is MSFT expecting that its victi^Wusers have already forgotten about the Aero Glass experience it was touting since Vista, and which has Win7 as this smorgasbord of translucent elements, rounded corners, drop shadows and being able to actually identify where an individual window begins and ends? Because to me it sounds like they're doing a miserable retreat from the 'Modern UI' AKA 'Metro' experiment they embarked on with Win8 and rammed down people's throats throughout Win10.

    Imagine, an OS that's both pretty and useful. That must be something that will take Neo-MSFT some time to get used to, I'm sure.

    Not that any of that matters to me until MSFT sorts out the system requirements for Win11. With them dropping the 'soft limits', my CPU (6700K, OG Skylake) isn't even remotely on the list and TPM modules are sold out until roughly 2024 anyway.

    I'll just be forced to keep using Win7 that's totally adequate for my needs and also looks very much like Win11 already, while not forcing Teams and an online MSFT account onto me. The horror.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Rounded corners? How revolutionary!

      Yep, pretty much all of this.

      Many years ago, us, X11 users would just change the windows manager to have a different look and feel, multiple workspaces etc ...

      With current MSFT, a completely new OS is needed ! And with mad requirements !

      Geez, we're doomed.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "Rounded geometry is a design element that traverses every corner of Windows 11"

      said Diego Baca, senior design director.

      Without a trace of irony.

      1. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Trollface

        Re: "Rounded geometry is a design element that traverses every corner of Windows 11"

        In another language his last name 'Baca' sounds like the word for "idiot". Yes, it's the first thing that entered my head.

        Then again, in yet another language from the same region of the world, my IRL first name sounds like the word for "simple" which COULD mean 'idiot'...

  8. guyr

    Meh to both Windows 11 and mobile 5G

    I actually am getting old, but I can't get excited about either Windows 11 or the next mobile standard 5G. My main computer is still running Windows 7 (I have a secondary on Windows 10, but rarely use it), and my 3 year old 4G phone on Android 10 does everything I require. Microsoft positioning Windows 11 not to run on anything older than 2 years makes my (non)-decision about Windows 11 very easy.

    1. karlkarl Silver badge

      Re: Meh to both Windows 11 and mobile 5G

      Don't worry, it isn't just your age. The industry has stagnated in a fairly boring way for a long time. Improvements are artificially slow and overly monetised sucking all of the passion out of everything. Microsoft in particular has no actual direction forward anymore, they are just stumbling towards the largest pile of money (currently called the Cloud).

      Check out this image to help remember when computers were interesting again!

      https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E3nYQVbXoAA33DI?format=jpg

      1. guyr
        Happy

        Re: Meh to both Windows 11 and mobile 5G

        Haha, like that picture. I had totally forgotten that I went to the midnight release of Windows 95. :)

    2. gerdesj Silver badge
      Gimp

      Re: Meh to both Windows 11 and mobile 5G

      yay

      (-Syu)

  9. Brewster's Angle Grinder Silver badge
    Joke

    I've just seen my first job ad: "Two years experience on Window 11 required."

  10. MarkET

    Windows 11

    Android = phone, Linux = PC / Server. Windows 11?????

    1. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Trollface

      Re: Windows 11

      Windows 11 = boat anchor

  11. js6898

    Everyone is looking the wrong way

    By far the majority of comments I've seen on Windows 11 are about rounded corners, centralised start menu etc etc

    Everyone is looking North whilst a herd of stampeding elephants is coming up from the South

    Windows 11 is not and never has been about tweaking the interface. It is about positioning for Windows as a Service

    MS could never have forced eg 'local accounts cannot be used'' onto Windows 10 - but Windows 11 you must have a MS account to install and must have aa MS account to 'use certain features'

    That is why MS is releasing W11

    1. karlkarl Silver badge

      Re: Everyone is looking the wrong way

      Agreed. It does make me wonder what OS businesses will install then.

      Or will they send around an intern, logging into his Hotmail account on each machine?!

      Hahaha... haha... ha.... oh damn.

  12. HenryCrun

    So from what I've seen so far scattered over the web, this new W11 will not work unless you use UEFI. That's not very helpful, if true, as loads of people will be stuck converting their HDDs over and then get a nasty surprise that their video card stops working. The video card issue may be more of a problem with people searching around for any card that they can get their hands on in the current supply shortage. Likewise anyone with a perfectly good CPU kept going for lightweight work, think AMD FX-6300 for example, that do not provide TPM. I wonder how long I can keep W10 running before I finally swap over to Unix/Linux/BSD?

    1. Geoff Campbell
      Windows

      At least until 2025, and probably further.

      But why wait? If you prefer Linux, install it now. It's fine, it's been a viable alternative on the desktop for years now. I don't understand all these people saying "I'll go to Linux, the moment you force me to! Just watch!".

      GJC

  13. Bruce Ordway

    Windows 11?

    If I remember the Windows 10 launch correctly, it was announced as the "last" version forever?

    Now we have a better idea of how MS defines "forever".

    I'd be happy to see the version where MS finally cleans out some of the schizophrenia.

    Some consistency in the areas of computer admin, settings, etc... would go a long way in winning back some of my original affection for Windows.

    (Which I lost at Windows 8 and have not found since).

  14. JWLong Bronze badge

    Loving It

    I'll make a bunch of money reverting desktops/laptops to OS's that work after MS shoves Win11 down everyone's throat.

    Work's for me, I like money.

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