back to article What you need to know about Microsoft Windows 11: It will run Android apps

Microsoft on Thursday announced Windows 11, or tried to as an uncooperative video stream left many viewers of the virtual event flummoxed by intermittent transmission gaps in the opening minutes. The technical issues proved bad enough that Matt Velloso, Technical Advisor to the CEO at Microsoft, suggested trying the YouTube …

  1. Paul Herber Silver badge

    Windows

    Windows for Workgroups 10.11

    1. Version 1.0 Silver badge

      Re: Windows

      LOL, unfortunately it takes a lot longer to boot and get going than Windows for Workgroups.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Windows

      Just checked around the office. Only half of our PC's can support Windows 11 due to the TPM chip requirement. So that's a no-go.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        TPM

        Why would Landlord M$ want to foist TPM on their Windows tenants?

        Trusted Platform Module.

        1. bombastic bob Silver badge
          Unhappy

          Re: TPM

          so they don't want anyone running it in a VM, then? At least, not with VirtualBox...

          (as far as I can tell VBox does not support TPM emulation, though it appears that VMWare _DOES_)

          I guess this means I will NOT be trying out their new OS. Not like I *really* wanted to, though... (the last time around was JUST! TOO! DISAPPOINTING!!!)

      2. rmullen0

        Re: Windows

        Yeah, I don't want that UEFI crap. I have a 3 GHz dual core PC from probably 2008 that I've been using (HP xw4600). Works perfectly fine after all these years. Though probably it doesn't support UEFI, or, at least I don't have the BIOS configured to use it. I think Microsoft just wants me to finally make the switch to Linux. I don't see what the point of all this is. To give me a features such as running Android apps that I have absolutely no need for? Or, once again, needlessly changing the UI around. They haven't even finished cleaning up all the control panels from Windows 2000, and now what, a new annoying UI again? I am sick and tired of this hoop jumping. I think the industry as a whole is completely out of it's mind. I guess I will return to refusing to upgrade for a decade, or, finally just switch over to Linux and be done with it. Something, smart people did 20 years ago. The company looks like a complete joke. They aren't offering any improvements. They are just changing things around for no good reason. And forcing people to upgrade to new hardware when there would otherwise be no need to do so. They are a pretty terrible company, and they did a really horrible job with the transition from .NET Framework to .NET Core. Another complete fiasco. I'm looking forward to retirement as these companies are completely out of their minds and too far gone. I am stick of jumping through their stupid hoops. I can't believe is was so dumb to buy into their marketing BS for as many years as I did.

        1. aks

          Re: Windows

          Windows 11 is explicitly *not* Windows 10 so you won't be pushed to use it. Windows 10 will remain supported for a number of years.

          Don't threaten to switch to Linux, simply do it. It's relatively painless, especially if you use Linux Mint Cinnamon. The UI is familiar enough that you won't have a large learning curve.

          We're now waiting to discover whether our compatible hardware will be charged to replace Windows 10 with 11 or be a free upgrade as it has been from Windows 7 onwards.

          1. Snake Silver badge

            Re: Switch to Linux

            Why does every Linux supporter only discuss - worry about, promote in regards to, and frequently discuss - the UI??!!

            For the *vast* majority of people keeping, or from the start choosing, an OS is mostly NOT about the UI!! It's about what programs run on it and what drivers / devices the OS supports.

            MacOS was fantastically popular for a long time because of audio device and system-wide color management support, plus the programs that supported those abilities. Re, desktop publishing, still and moving image editing, and audio mixing. That is, creative workflows. The OS supported the abilities that those applications needed for best performance, and creatives therefore flocked to it.

            Windows remains the King of desktop OS's because of code and driver support. Period. Both people and businesses use Windows on the desktop because it runs the apps that they need to get their work done, and supports the hardware components that help in that workflow.

            Switching to Linux will NEVER bring those abilities - Windows app support is via a subsystem that does not guarantee compatibility, and driver support DEFINITELY has no compatibility.

            Please, please, I beg you people. Linux has its place, but after 20+ years the market has shown that said place is not, and will never be, even a modest portion of the desktop market.

            1. Smartypantz

              Re: Switch to Linux

              Windows OS is the preferred desktop OS all-right. For the cubicle squatting corporate drones with everything centrally managed, and monitored.

              For those of us that actually would like the use of computers to be a pleasurable "experience" (to quote MS) Linux is the obvious choice.

              Gaming.. Check

              Privacy.. Check

              Calm and uninterrupting.. Check

              Stable.. Check

              Powerful.. Check

              1. Snake Silver badge

                Re: Linux preferred

                Not for anyone creative, for a start: I can't run anything Adobe on it. Nor the largest variety of image editing applications, to make a point. Even if you don't want Adobe Photoshop, you can't run DXO either, for example, and therefore also forget about AfterEffects or ANY industry-compatible desktop publishing.

                No Photoshop OR InDesign, even after all these years?? Linux can kiss my rear.

                Linux can't run any of the dedicated interface programs that all my office CAD printers and 3D mills require. Nor will it run a single one of the custom industry-specific apps that I use daily, except in a compatibility box (WINE).

                Again, you won't admit the fundamental limitations of Linux on the desktop, whilst the market is very much aware of them and has therefore prevented Linux from making any inroads in the desktop market.

                You are in IT, an area where Linux excels (of course), so the IT developers creating Linux software focus on making IT-centric apps, which you find useful and appealing.

                The rest of the desktop market does not; a wonderful Linux IDE does not serve non-IT users.

                Linux is actually GREAT for two types of users, NOT the ones that you specify: (a) IT industry / developers, and (B) non-power users who can settle for the standard / available OSS software instead of the more powerful paid alternatives (note: video editing with DaVinci Resolve on Linux is, pretty much, the only exception to this rule).

              2. Christopher Rogers

                Re: Switch to Linux

                "cubicle squatting corporate drones" or individuals who need to pay bills to support themselves and their families?

                You should really move out of your mum's spare room. Have a wash, get vaccinated and realise Trump didn't win in January.

            2. rmullen0

              Re: Switch to Linux

              So, I guess you are fine being smacked around by an authoritarian corporation that does whatever they want regardless of what their customers think. And forces them to dispose of hardware that has nothing wrong with it, other than it doesn't allow Microsoft to inflict its customers with DRM and take away their freedoms. Microsoft doesn't even bother asking their customers what they want. If they did, they wouldn't arbitrarily be forcing UEFI and TPM on them. If you want that, then fine, add support for it, but, don't screw your customers over who don't. They just want people to go out and buy new hardware, that's all. It is obvious that they do not care about security. Look at all the holes in it that they have to constantly patch. And TPM will do nothing to fix that. I want to know why the idiot Store apps open up a million firewall rules even for apps that aren't listening on ports. You can turn all the rules off and on reboot, or when software updates, the come right back again 5 minutes later. That is a flat out broken design. It is gross incompetence that their software does that, and after years, Microsoft has done nothing to fix it. "Secure by default" Yeah right. Their whole "Trusted Security Initiative" is a joke.

              1. Snake Silver badge

                Re: being slapped around

                Please, let's grow the -f- up for once! I'm going to do some slapping of my own here.

                Using our computers is NOT about yelling "Freedom!!" and "But Big Corp!". We use our computers TO GET A JOB DONE.

                Period. That personal computer is in front of us to get something accomplished, be that this quarter's reports or a rocking time of shoot-em-up entertainment.

                And yet here you are, the typical OSS fanatic. Worrying about OS "Freedom" whilst the REST OF US only care about whether or not it will actually function in the way we need it it - whether it fundamentally provides the functionality to make this computer in front of us worth anything at all.

                Why do we 'stand' being 'slapped around' by some big corporation's OS?? BECAUSE YOUR OSS SOFTWARE DOES NOT DO WHAT WE NEED.

                I'm getting PAID for my photography work. I'lm getting PAID when I do graphic design work. My co-worker is getting PAID for her 3D CAD design work and subsequent CAM output.

                And Linux's tools in ALL those fields?? Amateur level! If they exist at all. GIMP not only doesn't handle adjustment layers, a HUGE negative to any professional photo editing, it doesn't even handle CMYK, meaning that it can't be integrated into a graphics design workflow. Linux can't drive 3 of the 4 CAD/CAM output devices (2 printers and one mill) in our office, never you mind the fact that Linux can't run any CAD software that is normally used in our design industry.

                Linux is GREAT with STEM programs but everything else has lagged behind for decades now (except OpenOffice and Resolve).

                Linux has now made great inroads into professional video editing thanks to DaVinci Resolve. But, before that?? Not a single professional video technician would even THINK of using Linux, it just didn't have programs with the power level that was necessary.

                And that's the secret word for this discussion: NECESSARY. We use Windows and MacOS because they are NECESSARY to run the applications that are NECESSARY for our lives. There's not much choice.

                If OSS GAVE us a real choice - pro-level industry apps - then yes, I would indeed probably switch. I tried back on Linux 5.2. And found out that everything ELSE in the OSS ecosystem wasn't to the development level of the OS.

                And 20+ years later I'm pretty much STILL waiting (OpenOffice, Resolve and a few others excepted).

          2. Silly Goose

            Re: Windows

            This windows 11 nonsense was the final straw for me. I am writing this from my Mint desktop and it is faster and more efficient than windows from what I am finding.

            No more Windows for me :) and I can play my games in Steam on Linux without Wine. I am finding no downside to dumping windows.

          3. Tom Paine

            Re: Windows

            I've been up-votong comments like this for what seems like decades. Wait.. it IS decades!

            Shit I'm old. Still, it's nice to see CDE living on, in a manner of speaking.

      3. Dan 55 Silver badge

        Re: Windows

        You might be able to turn on TPM 2.0 by flipping an option in the BIOS settings.

        1. Sgt_Oddball Silver badge

          Re: Windows

          We can only hope.

          I just had a quick squiz looking for the compatible TPM 2.0 module for my AMD mobo... Only one I can find is second hand on ebay for 5x retail price with 2 days to go.

        2. ibmalone Silver badge

          Re: Windows

          None of my own computers have 2.0, one has 1.2. Work machines TPM 1.2. Fortunately already using a KDE desktop, so don't need to switch to MS's.

          Android apps is an interesting one, looks like MS moving in the opposite of walled garden direction in some respects.

          1. ThatOne Silver badge
            Devil

            Re: Windows

            > Android apps is an interesting one

            Yes, I really want to see Google and Microsoft code fighting over your private data: "It's mine!" "No, I saw it first!"...

            .

            Fortunately Microsoft hasn't yet finished turning Linux into a Windows feature, so we still do have some choice in the matter.

            (Former Microsoft OS user (from DOS 2 to Win7))

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Windows

            I have seen with some HP laptops that there updates that can upgrade TPM 1.2 to TPM2.0

            Maybe other makers have similar?

        3. Claverhouse Silver badge

          Re: Windows

          Yeah, the first thing a purchaser from PC World does with a new computer is dive into the BIOS settings.

      4. Lon24 Silver badge

        Re: Windows

        "Just checked around the office. Only half of our PC's can support Windows 11 due to the TPM chip requirement. So that's a no-go."

        Denied the 'right' to run a supported Windows OS on your good hardware. Are MS promoting landfill like they did to netbooks when Vista* was launched?

        Oh well it's an opportunity in 2025 or even before for the unchosen to choose a genuine KDE-esque experience. Other GUIs are available and so are the distros that support them.

        Time now to not get entrapped into the Microsoft Teams ecosystem which may leave you no choice down the line. Unless you believe in a God who chooses who he will let into his particular conception of paradise.

        *The inability to run Vista as a supported OS caused us to try and eventually switch to Linux. Some pain in the transition but who is smiling smugly now?

        1. 42656e4d203239

          Re: Windows

          >>Time now to not get entrapped into the Microsoft Teams ecosystem which may leave you no choice down the line.

          My Manjaro laptop runs Teams just fine....

          OK Microsoft may kill the ability to build Teams for other platforms sometime, but so far so good; the fellas who do that sort of thing for the Arch user repository ecosystem are maintaining a current Teams package.

          YMMV of course (depending on your distro of choice)

      5. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Windows

        How did you check? When I ran the tool it just gave me a message saying that updates were controlled by the company administrator...

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Windows

          Just checked with tpm.msc. All of the "refreshed" PCs we bought a year and a half ago to get us from windows 7 to windows 10 have tpm 1.2... a*se!

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: have tpm 1.2... a*se!

            TPM 1.2 *is* supported.

            It isn't recommended, and you'll be given a warning, but it will install.

            1. Dan 55 Silver badge
      6. hoola Silver badge

        Re: Windows

        Another global shortage approaches plus a huge number of perfectly viable devices then being binned.

        Is it really that critical for the average consumer? I can see why some commercial outfits may need TPM but to enforce it on everything.....

        Yes, I know they can install Linux etc. but many simply don't have the knowledge or cannot be bothered. I have not dabbled with Chrome for a long time, can this just be installed on something that ran Windows as the only OS?

      7. Wayland Bronze badge

        Re: Windows

        The TPM thing is not needed. You can install it without this.

      8. keithpeter Silver badge
        Windows

        Re: Windows

        "Just checked around the office. Only half of our PC's can support Windows 11 due to the TPM chip requirement. So that's a no-go."

        Way down the comments on this article, someone has suggested that the TPM 2.0 requirement is only confirmed for beta testing release and therefore perhaps not for the final version.

        Can anyone pin the TPM 2.0 requirement down? Domestic users only? Beta trial versions only? All installations?

        Otherwise I'm thinking of vast waste and extra cost for large IT estates (think NHS, civil service, local authorities and so on) for no special benefit (they sit behind firewalls of various qualities on networks that are monitored in various ways). I feel my once-a-decade letter to my MP coming on.

        1. SecretSonOfHG

          Re: Windows

          Ha, most of the estates you mention would be happy to be on Windows 10 by 2025. Just remember the recent incident with the Irish health services....

        2. Roland6 Silver badge

          Re: Windows

          >Can anyone pin the TPM 2.0 requirement down?

          MS have (as of 24-Jun-2021) published the Win11 platform specifications:

          https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-11-specifications

          Also as a more detailed document here (TPM isn't the only thing you need to look out for):

          https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/minimum-hardware-requirements-overview

          Additionally, they have published a listing of supported processors:

          https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/windows-processor-requirements

          Note you need to have TPM enabled in the BIOS for the Windows 11 compatibility checker to find it. Also, there are debates going on about support for fTPM (firmware TPM) embedded in the CPU compared to a motherboard-based hardware TPM chip, with some recent AMD Ryzen CPU's (with fTPM) not being deemed compatible with Win11.

        3. Dan 55 Silver badge
          Pirate

          Re: Windows

          Way down the comments on this article, someone has suggested that the TPM 2.0 requirement is only confirmed for beta testing release and therefore perhaps not for the final version.

          Just like telemetry for Windows 10, then.

      9. 101 Not Found

        Re: Windows

        Embrace extend extinguish. Only trusted platforms allowed

      10. Tom Paine

        Re: Windows

        How old are they?! AIUI TPM has been mandatory since Vista. Those desktops almost certainly have it; it's just not enabled in the BIOS or whatever the cool kids call it these days.

  2. Someone Else Silver badge

    So, SatNad...

    Does the New, Improved, Win11 allow me, its lowly and oft-ignored user, to disable "telemetry"?

    If so, great...I'm interested.

    If not, fuck off, then.

    1. keithpeter Silver badge
      Windows

      Re: So, SatNad...

      "We need to be empowered to choose the applications we run, the content we consume, the people we connect to, and even how we allocate our own attention,"

      Well, that is what the man said.

      PS: the choice of the word 'even' in that last clause really bothers me.

    2. elsergiovolador Silver badge

      Re: So, SatNad...

      You are no longer a consumer, you are a bee that produces data, which is then harvested, packaged and sold, without any compensation for you.

      But hey! There are some shiny windows for you..

    3. This post has been deleted by its author

      1. Kane Silver badge
        Gimp

        Re: So, SatNad...

        "Microsoft are an imperfect ally but they’re probably the most significant member of your digital world that actually gives a crap about individual freedom, privacy and democracy."

        Ahahahah!!! Hahahahah!!!111!11!

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

          1. ibmalone Silver badge

            Re: So, SatNad...

            What owned dependencies? Or is this just FUD?

            Also, given MS's embracing of open source and increasingly Linux, who exactly do you think you're batting for with this one?

            1. This post has been deleted by its author

              1. Lon24 Silver badge

                Re: So, SatNad...

                Downvote for avoiding a good question with moronic abuse. But on a positive note I'm not calling you a eugenist. They may have been terribly mistaken but they were mostly quite smart ;-)

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moron_(psychology)

                1. This post has been deleted by its author

                  1. Claverhouse Silver badge

                    Re: So, SatNad...

                    I'm not that concerned about various governments looking at my computer use; I am though very concerned about ghastly marketing firms and things like Microsoft reading my data.

                    Selling someone an operating system does not include the included right to check what the buyer is doing with his computer for ever more.

                    1. Anonymous Coward
                      Anonymous Coward

                      Re: Does not include the right to check what the buyer is doing ... for ever more.

                      Microsoft would like to collect info, but they do ask during installation. It's easy to say no to everything apart from basic telemetry, and that's a small price to pay for the extra security that information allows them to provide.

                      And yes, I know Windows is arguably the least secure mainstream OS, but nevertheless it has improved hugely over the years - and basic telemetry is one of those things that helped bring that about.

                  2. ibmalone Silver badge

                    Re: So, SatNad...

                    If you or I knew the answer to that then we wouldn’t be having this conversation because one of us would be genuinely clairvoyant and along with knowing what the PRC, Russians and NSA have compromised in our software supply chains we’d also know that this conversation was a waste of time with no positive outcome for anyone involved.

                    The thing is, we know commercial software has been compromised by intelligence agencies in the past, including holding on to vulnerabilities in Windows, so there's no particular use in asserting open source dependencies are compromised in particular (looking forward to bugs: "Regression, remote access exploit no longer works after commit abc123"). If they want to compromise open source they'll at least have to put some effort into maintaining it. MS have been less dislikeable recently, but as with Apple their goal is user lock-in, telemetry and requiring online accounts are moves towards that goal, the best we can hope for is they see utility and interoperability as a better way to achieve customer loyalty.

                    1. yetanotheraoc

                      Re: So, SatNad...

                      "requiring online accounts"

                      There are a few pluses, and more minuses, but that minus is the last straw for me. It shows how much MS *actually* cares about their users. I use Windows 10 rarely, Windows 11 will be never.

                      1. Anonymous Coward
                        Anonymous Coward

                        Re: "requiring online accounts" - the last straw for me

                        It may be worth waiting to see what "requiring online accounts" really means.

                        The mainstream belief for a large number of users/sites/blogs is that an online account is already necessary in Windows 10, but we know that is not the case as there are at least two ways to install without one. That may well be the case with 11 as well, in that generally speaking you need an account but in reality there are workarounds.

                        1. Dan 55 Silver badge

                          Re: "requiring online accounts" - the last straw for me

                          No need for whataboutism, just check the MS website:

                          Windows 11 requirements

                          Windows 11 Home edition requires an Internet connection and a Microsoft Account to complete device setup on first use.

                      2. Anonymous Coward
                        Anonymous Coward

                        Re: So, SatNad...

                        You will be missed, go well my friend.

      2. Someone Else Silver badge
        FAIL

        Re: So, SatNad...

        That nasty “telemetry” is the thing that is going to save your ass from getting owned one day.

        Manure! (Your nure, and everyone else's nure!!)

        That check with SatNad's sig on it is in the mail.

    4. Hubert Cumberdale Silver badge

      Re: So, SatNad...

      I'm hoping that maybe O&O ShutUp 10 will be turned up to 11 for just that purpose.

      Also:

      "Chat from Microsoft Teams has been integrated in the taskbar"

      ...seriously? I really hope I can kill that one with fire. Native(ish) Android apps sounds good though. I have no desire for a smartphone, but people insist on communicating via WhatsApp etc., so I'm running BlueStacks at the moment, which is a bit of a sledgehammer to crack a nut. (As an aside, I bet BlueStacks are rather worried about their business model right now...)

      1. Kane Silver badge

        Re: So, SatNad...

        "I have no desire for a smartphone"

        How do you get around the requirement for a phone number to verify against?

        1. bombastic bob Silver badge
          Unhappy

          Re: So, SatNad...

          oh do they want a CELL PHONE NUMBER now JUST to use a computer? As WELL as a cloudy login? Yeah no TRACKING there... no linking your cell phone to online (and offline) activities or anything.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: they want a CELL PHONE NUMBER now JUST to use a computer

            They haven't said any such thing.

          2. Hubert Cumberdale Silver badge

            Re: So, SatNad...

            Whoa, let go of the capslock... I'm not really sure what you're talking about, but it sounds angry.

        2. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

          Re: So, SatNad...

          "I have no desire for a smartphone"

          How do you get around the requirement for a phone number to verify against?

          Huh? There are phone numbers for phones which are not smartphones.

          (Personally, I find the idea of running Android apps on Windows fairly repulsive; that's something I would only ever want to do in an emulator I control, not Microsoft, and then only for development purposes. That's an attack-surface expansion I can do without. But tastes differ.)

        3. Hubert Cumberdale Silver badge

          Re: So, SatNad...

          I used my non-smart phone – all it needs is a text verification number.

      2. katrinab Silver badge
        Paris Hilton

        Re: So, SatNad...

        There is a Windows version of the Whatsapp App in the App store, or you can download an installer if you don't like app stores.

        There's also web.whatsapp.com if you don't like to, or can't, install software on your computer. Chrome and Edge allow you to install that website as an App without administrator permissions. Basically it is a desktop / start menu shortcut that links to the web page without the UI elements of the browser.

        1. Hubert Cumberdale Silver badge

          Re: So, SatNad...

          As I discovered, the web/desktop versions only work if you have it also installed on a phone/tablet/emulator. Not only that, said other version must be actually running and currently connected to the web for you to even use the desktop/web client (making it basically useless in my scenario).

    5. Down not across Silver badge

      Re: So, SatNad...

      Disable telemetry? Far from it. The article suggested that (at least for Home version) with Win 11 microsoft account is now mandatory unlike in Win 10 where at least you can just use local account and shun the "Store" and Cortana etc.

      1. 8bitHero

        Re: So, SatNad...

        The article indicates the account will be necessary for the install process (indicating you are likely to get the media via the Microsoft store), but not beyond. At least that's how I read it.

    6. Danny 14 Silver badge

      Re: So, SatNad...

      i know what i will be doing, creating fuckloads of gpos to get rid of all the cruft.

  3. mark l 2 Silver badge

    "For businesses, it is just another feature update in the annual series of feature updates they have to deal with in the new 'Windows as a Service' world,"

    But this Windows 11 feature update will probably come with a financial cost to businesses as no doubt MS will only be offering the free upgrade route to home users, and enterprise customers will need to pay for Windows 11 licenses. And for them this new Windows might be coming only a couple of years after they spent a lot of time and money to migrated to Windows 10 on the MS marketing promise of that was the last ever Windows version.

    1. Lazlo Woodbine

      I've just checked our Microsoft 365 license, and it includes all OS upgrades during the lifetime of our agreement.

      If the business does subscribe to Microsoft 365, and there's no reason most should, then we'll just have to wait and see if the 'free' upgrade includes Pro as well as Home licenses.

      1. mmonroe

        They will probaby do an Adobe...

        Long ago, we purchased CS6 with cold hard cash. It does everything we want and need, but we're not allowed to install it any more as Adobe has withdrawn the licence. M$ might well do the same in near future.

    2. jbuk1

      That's not how Microsoft licensing works in the Enterprise.

      No enterprise will be running Windows 10 home and that's the only version which has ever been free.

      We already pay for Windows and we have software assurance so we get whatever the latest version is as part of that.

      That's exactly how it was going from XP to 7, 7 to 8, 8 to 8.1 and 8.1 to 10.

      We just download the latest iso from the volume license centre and crack on....

  4. Throatwarbler Mangrove Silver badge
    Facepalm

    What . . . why?

    "Your PC will need UEFI Secure Boot and a TPM 2.0 security chipset to run it."

    I mean . . . really?

    1. keithpeter Silver badge
      Windows

      Re: What . . . why?

      To encourage the purchase of new computers in the absence of large increases in computing power?

      tpm.msc tells me that the perfectly serviceable Thinkpad X230 that my partner uses to run Windows 10, teams, zoom and her basic software has a TPM 1.2 standard chip fitted, and so will not be able to run Windows 11 if we believe the press release.

      https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/information-protection/tpm/switch-pcr-banks-on-tpm-2-0-devices

      TPM 2 devices have extra memory locations that can store a set of SHA1 hashes between boots. Perhaps some form of hardware fingerprint?

      Free upgrades: anyone taking bets on an auto-upgrade from Windows 10 to Windows 11 failing to check the TPM standard and refusing to boot once installed?

      1. Roland6 Silver badge

        Re: What . . . why?

        >TPM 2 devices have extra memory locations that can store a set of SHA1 hashes between boots. Perhaps some form of hardware fingerprint?

        Makes sense for MS to want to store Windows licence/activation keys in the TPM.

        1. elsergiovolador Silver badge

          Re: What . . . why?

          > Makes sense for MS to want to store Windows licence/activation keys in the TPM.

          Why it does make sense? They didn't need that for years, what's changed?

          Or do they need that to track you more accurately?

          1. PerlyKing Silver badge

            Re: What . . . why?

            Let's try a minor rewrite:

            Makes sense for to MS to want to store Windows licence/activation keys in the TPM.

          2. aks

            Re: What . . . why?

            In my recollection, they've been doing it for years, even Windows 7 with UEFI.

      2. J. Cook Silver badge

        Re: What . . . why?

        Free upgrades: anyone taking bets on an auto-upgrade from Windows 10 to Windows 11 failing to check the TPM standard and refusing to boot once installed?

        Nope, but I'll lay good odds that it'll happen for the first week or so of the initial rollout to people living in the Fast Release (or beta build, Insider, or whatever it's called this month) group.

        Any my personal workstation is either Not Compatible, or has a TPM module that I've disabled in the BIOS because windows 7 doesn't use it. :(

      3. aks

        Re: What . . . why?

        There won't be an auto-upgrade from 10 to 11. That's the entire point of calling it 11.

    2. This post has been deleted by its author

      1. elsergiovolador Silver badge

        Re: What . . . why?

        I actually bought a TPM module recently. I spent a good hour trying to find the right model for my motherboard. It arrived. Got my desktop out. Nope, the pins go the other way around...

        But manufacturer lists this model as the right one. Oh.

        1. Nick Ryan Silver badge

          Re: What . . . why?

          Been there. Got the TPM module. Returned it.

          Turns out the manufacturer omitted to fit the headers that they stated were there in all their documentation and sales literature.

      2. rmullen0

        Re: What . . . why?

        They don't care about generating lots of e-waste. They just care about making lots of $$$$$. What end users think or the negative impact that it has on the planet doesn't matter and never does when it comes to authoritarian corporations like Microsoft.

        1. keithpeter Silver badge

          Re: What . . . why?

          Which is why we need regulation: to price in the externalities.

        2. Craig100

          Re: What . . . why?

          I wouldn't call them "authoritarian". I'd call them "arrogant and naive", as they always have been IMHO.

      3. ThatOne Silver badge
        Devil

        Re: What . . . why?

        > This is going to generate a huge amount of waste

        Which is going to generate a huge amount of profit...

        You can't make omelette without breaking other peoples' eggs.

    3. Andy Non Silver badge

      Re: What . . . why?

      Looks like the wife's elderly Windows 10 laptop wont be upgraded to 11, but rather to Linux Mint.

    4. blue_cheese

      Re: What . . . why?

      That isn't all. If Intel processor then must be at least 8th generation.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I mean . . . really?

      No.

      They allow installation under 1.2 but warn against it and advise 2.0.

      1. keithpeter Silver badge
        Windows

        Re: I mean . . . really?

        Well, that is good news. Anyone got a reference?

  5. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    "Windows 11 has a new KDE-esque user-interface"

    They've caught up!

    "Win32, .NET, UWP, Xamarin, Electron, React Native, Java and Progressive Web Apps"

    The really sneaky thing would have been to add iOS and/or MacOS to that list.

    1. LovesTha

      I believe I'm going to be forced to migrate from Ubuntu to Windows at work in the not too distant future (so probably 2 years time), the new snapping features look like they'll soften the blow from losing access to awesomeWM a little bit.

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

  6. Nick Ryan Silver badge

    Typically useless "Check tool" from Microsoft... run the thing:

    This PC can't run Windows 11

    While this PC doesn't meet the system requirements to run Windows 11, you'll keep getting Windows 10 updates.

    [Learn More]

    Does the [Learn More] link tell me what about my PC does not meet the requirements of Windows 11? Like fuck it does. Just a page of requirements.

    Typically similar to the all too common moronic "an error has happened" type error response (as in "we know what the error is but we're too lazy or stupid to trap it and to give information").

    1. J. Cook Silver badge

      It's probably stashed in an XML file buried somewhere in the dank, depths of your AppData folder in your profile. :(

      1. Nick Ryan Silver badge

        Is this the correct XML file: "\Disused Lavatory\Filing Cabinet (locked)\Beware of the Leopard.xml"?

        Bugger. Forgot my flashlight.

        1. David 132 Silver badge
          Happy

          Check your pocket - do you still have the Thing Your Aunt Gave You That You Don't Know What It Is?

    2. Adelio Silver badge

      I have a brand new PC at home, but it runs windows 10 professional.

      The check tools tells me

      "Your organisation manages updates to this pc"

      Contact your IT admin.

      So no help there.

      1. ThatOne Silver badge
        Devil

        It's your fault: Don't confuse poor Microsoft by having a "Professional" Windows at home! At home you're supposed to run "Home", period...

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Android?

    Eh. MS has spent the last 25 years battling the security holes they themselves put into Windows. Do they really think they can simply wave their magic wand to add Android capability to the mix and it'll all just miraculously work and take us to rainbow-unicorn land? I've got a feeling the dark-underbelly guys are already rubbing their hands together in gleeful anticipation of the coming slaughter.

    1. Potemkine! Silver badge

      Re: Android?

      Absolutely! I'm not sure it's a great idea to embark a new ecosystem which is famous to be a security nightmare.

      1. Richard 12 Silver badge

        Re: Android?

        Given that it runs in a VM by fundamental concept, why not?

        Isolating VMs from the host and each other is a much simpler task than isolating applications from each other why still allowing them to share data.

        1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

          Re: Android?

          So it's perfectly safe, as long as there's only ever one Android app running at at time, and that app never has access to sensitive data (including the host filesystem), and there are no VM escape exploits, and ...

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Will it still ship with unending crapware?

    1. elsergiovolador Silver badge

      The abomination called Teams is included by default. I wonder if it will be collecting data for employers and updating their productivity score...

      This should be illegal.

      1. rmullen0

        Yeah, they got rid of idiot Cortana and instead decided to add another abomination in it's place, Teams.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Usually OEMs that add a lot of the cruft.

    3. Confuciousmobil

      They’ve already said it has the ability to run Android so you can install your own.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "The new UX isn't so much of a change that it would require user retraining,"

    HA! You want to try working with people who moan that they can't still have XP or Widows 7 and bleat on a regular basis that they can't understand why things have to change. One day I'd love to introduce someone from M$ and the rest to the few thousand OAPs (average age 87!) I have to deal with.

    1. karlkarl Silver badge

      You should carry out a user study one day. You might find that users really are faster with Windows XP.

      The interface was simpler, snappier and didn't have slow fades subtly slowing down the users.

      Similar user studies did show that the Win9x interface was faster than the older 3.1 interface too showing that the pinnacle was reached in early 2000s and has only been downhill since.

      That said, I don't think Microsoft even has the skills to carry out proper usability studies any more.

      1. rmullen0

        What do you mean "anymore"?

        1. Richard 12 Silver badge

          They used to do them. That's where Win95 thru Win7 came from.

          1. Nick Ryan Silver badge

            They also invested millions into user interface metrics and research and produced very good style and usability guides.

            These were immediately ignored by other departments within Microsoft such as the department responsible for Microsoft Office.

            I suspect they gave up with this investment as it was not generating immediate profit and also was not being used by their own developers.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "That said, I don't think Microsoft even has the skills to carry out proper usability studies any more."

        Sure they do. The MS Marketing department asks the Graphics Design department how they expect a Windows computer to work, and, voila, usability study.

        That's the only thing that makes sense in explaining everything since Win8...

    2. Throatwarbler Mangrove Silver badge
      Windows

      "You want to try working with people who moan that they can't still have XP or Widows 7 and bleat on a regular basis that they can't understand why things have to change."

      You mean like a sizeable percentage of El Reg's commentards? Don't get them started on the ribbon interface, either, or you'll never hear the end of it!

      1. mmonroe

        Classic Shell and UBitMenu are your friends here. When the new IT manager took over, he wanted to know why I was still running XP and the rest of the company are on Windows 10. Looks ARE everything after all...

      2. logicalextreme Silver badge

        I prefer Win10 to 7 and XP for a variety of reasons but the Ribbon interface can still go to hell, go directly to hell and forget about even looking at that £200.

        The only way I've found to live with its existence is to have carefully cultivated a career in which I never need to open an office application. I begrudgingly accept it in pbrush.exe because it seems like an appropriate place for it.

        1. K Cartlidge

          Re: the Ribbon interface can still go to hell

          When I'm in an anti-ribbon mood I use Ctrl+F1 to hide it away then the old muscle-learned shortcuts like Alt+E, S, V to paste values-only in Excel - the old menu option keystrokes mostly still work.

    3. keithpeter Silver badge
      Windows

      "One day I'd love to introduce someone from M$ and the rest to the few thousand OAPs (average age 87!) I have to deal with."

      I'll raise your Senior Citizens with my dear fellow teachers.

      1. 42656e4d203239
        Pint

        Have a beer - It's Friday and nearly the Summer Holidays --->

        >>I'll raise your Senior Citizens with my dear fellow teachers.

        I'm with you there brother.... starting to try to get the teachers here to use W10... not looking forward to September!

    4. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Thumb Down

      can't understand why things have to change.

      "have to change" - WHY is that exactly?

      the 'end all'/'be all' is NOT the OS, but rather getting your work done and/or having fun.

      Any "have to change" that GETS IN THE WAY OF THAT is COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY and should NEVER happen.

  10. knarf

    Except you can't upgrade most devices running current Win10

    Need a 8th Gen intel or more, tpm.

    My top end surface book 1 i7 16Gb can't be upgraded.

    The community is going nuts already.

    https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-windows_install/windows-11-qa/d3317d2c-d0d2-4ace-8672-a9425fce9124

    I still remember VISTA, went out and bought MACs for the whole family.

    Except Apple is less viable than before moving to Mx.

    1. Wayland Bronze badge

      Re: Except you can't upgrade most devices running current Win10

      With a few tweaks people are running the leaked Windows 11 on all sorts of hardware. On installation there is a window that pops up telling you the hardware is not suitable, however that's really the only problem. There are methods to get past that.

  11. John70

    "Will run Android apps"...

    Is Windows 1 step closer to becoming full Linux?

    1. Fungus Bob

      Re: "Will run Android apps"...

      One of the many missteps IBM made with OS/2 was allowing it to run Windows programs - gave developers less incentive to make native OS/2 apps and more incentive to make Windows apps.

      1. rmullen0

        Re: "Will run Android apps"...

        If only Windows went the way of OS/2.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: "Will run Android apps"...

          At least OS/2 had a decently designed kernel.

    2. The Oncoming Scorn Silver badge
      Holmes

      Re: "Will run Android apps"...

      It's one step closer to ensuring users drop Macro$haft in favour of it though.

  12. Mike Lewis

    All I want to know is...

    1. Will I have another frantic battle to stop it trying to install itself on my mum's antique laptop?

    2. Are all the settings in one place now?

    3. Will Microsoft drop its "ready or not, here I come" installation of buggy updates at the most inopportune time?

    1. Dr. Vagmeister

      Re: All I want to know is...

      "1. Will I have another frantic battle to stop it trying to install itself on my mum's antique laptop?"

      Judging by the article text, and comments here, the TPM2.0 requirement probably means you have no chance of installing it even if you wanted to.

    2. J. Cook Silver badge

      Re: All I want to know is...

      In order: Yes, Of course not, and Please wait, installing the update and forcing a reboot to answer that question. (aka Feck Yes.)

    3. rmullen0

      Re: All I want to know is...

      In answer to 2, no, they most certainly will not have all the settings in one place. They are to incompetent to do that. 20 years of not doing it has proven that. Instead, they will add yet another parallel layer of settings to further confuse matters. And yet still probably muck around with the old settings too so that you can't find anything there either (not that you ever could).

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: All I want to know is...

        You're not supposed to change the settings, you're supposed to use the defaults the system installs with: Microsoft knows best. And don't give me any crap about getting work done, you're an asset, not a customer.

    4. GioCiampa

      Re: All I want to know is...

      2. From what I've seen this far... no

  13. Dr. Vagmeister
    WTF?

    From the article :

    CEO Satya Nadella concluded the presentation with a statement of purpose that positions Microsoft – the monopolist of decades past – as the champion of openness, at least compared to its rival Apple.

    So, Microsoft are not as bad as Apple, so they can claim being open ?. Was he laughing when he said that ?

    Microsoft will always be the monopoly for PC's. They know it, and that's why they can pull the crap such as forcing you to purchase a new PC when windows 10 is unsupported.

    Unless you move to Linux.

    2024, the year of the Linux desktop. Hurrah.

    1. Def Silver badge

      2024 - The year I retire to some beach somewhere and stop giving a shit about all this horse shit. :)

      1. rmullen0

        "horse shit". Exactly the word I wanted to use in an earlier comment but feared would be censored. Yes, the closer you get to retirement, the more you realize that you wasted your life on "horse shit" working with this crap day in and day out. A constant rearranging of the chairs on the Titanic while the planet burns.

      2. Adelio Silver badge

        That will be me within 9 months! I just cannot take any more....

      3. cookieMonster
        Thumb Up

        You’re on the home straight, hang in there !!

        1. Def Silver badge

          Well, not really. I currently have at least another 19 years until I can retire. (Retire with maximum pension that is.)

          But I really doubt I'm going to wait that long. :)

    2. elsergiovolador Silver badge

      I only keep Windows PC because the software I use doesn't exist on Linux.

      The day company makes a Linux version, I'll switch.

      And if Microsoft starts messing about with Windows 10, I'll consider moving on Mac where that software exists too.

    3. keithpeter Silver badge
      Windows

      You jest, but remember that younger adults these days (i.e. the future market) are quite happily moving from phone/tablet/tv-thing/laptop/car and mode-switching amongst the various interfaces.

      A generation of *perfectly fine* corporate laptops rendered unsupported and sold to the refurbishers may well end up being deployed with a suitable linux and sold on.

      Alternatively, Microsoft may be complaining that businesses are failing to update in a few years (because the businesses don't want to send perfectly usable devices to refurb/landfil)

      1. Wayland Bronze badge

        Businesses generally update to stay out of trouble. They don't want to find no one can support their computers because they are too far out of date. However many will take that risk and stick with what works, never looking to improve what's good enough.

        The computer industry on the other hand is always excited about the amazing new things computers can do. In many cases these are worth while but only makes sense if someone is there to applied these new abilities to the business.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Microsoft Account required

    https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-11-specifications

    "Windows 11 Home edition requires internet connectivity and a Microsoft account to complete device setup on first use."

    Just no. I won't be 'upgrading'.

    Not that I can having either the wrong CPU (works fine with Windows 10 currently) or old TPM version (ditto). Can't tell which as the PC Health Check doesn't give any details.

    What a waste for the environment come 2025. Make it an optional Windows 10 feature update instead.

  15. John Savard Silver badge

    Almost Yawned

    I was going to say that it wouldn't matter if Microsoft Windows could run Android apps, if it isn't licensed for Google Play.

    But then I realized that even if Google's web site for apps won't recognize a Windows 11 computer as a 'compatible device', nearly everyone with an Android app they want people to use would of course also submit it to the Microsoft Store.

    So this is significant.

    1. Wayland Bronze badge

      Re: Almost Yawned

      The PC has been left behind in this area. There are so many important things that only work on a smartphone. I should be able to scan a cheque and pay it into my bank but this is only available on a smartphone.

      1. Adelio Silver badge

        Re: Almost Yawned

        Who still deals with cheques..... I used to get the odd one from dividends untill i change to reinvest. I just SENT a cheque to the local council to pay a traffic fine. Cos i could....

      2. LovesTha

        Re: Almost Yawned

        I can only use PayID (Aus standard way to send money to phone/email) in the phone app, not a browser.

        Why?

    2. Ken Hagan Gold badge

      Re: Almost Yawned

      If everyone did that, could people point their phones at the MS store and dispense with Play altogether?

  16. PiltdownMan

    WHY

    was El Reg SO LATE in reporting this story?

    Even the BBC had it hours before you.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: WHY

      Because its fucking night time mate.

    2. Intractable Potsherd Silver badge

      Re: WHY

      Not everything needs to be reported as soon as it vomits forth. This manufactured need for immediate, uninformed, commentary on everything is quite counter-productive. Waiting a little while to produce analysis is a good thing.

  17. Ganton Scum

    Forced MS Accounts? I am litterally pissing my pants in excitement!

    1. Intractable Potsherd Silver badge

      I don't think that's excitement...

    2. Wayland Bronze badge

      No true. Simply install with the Internet disconnected. Then you get the local account option. In fact on leaked Windows 11 they have put that option back on the screen.

      1. rmullen0

        I need to unplug my computer to opt out of their idiotic accounts???? Wow, that's user friendly. Thanks Microsoft! You're doing a bang up job ensuring that no one upgrades to your new garbage operating system.

  18. DS999 Silver badge
    WTF?

    TPM 2.0 spec is less than two years old

    How can they seriously make that a requirement? Very few PCs will be upgradeable to 11, so either they will have to support Windows 10 for a decade or Apple will be supporting iPhones longer than Microsoft supports PCs.

    What in the world is Microsoft thinking here?

    1. Someone Else Silver badge

      Re: TPM 2.0 spec is less than two years old

      What in the world is Microsoft thinking here?

      You assume they're thinking? You know what happens when you assume...

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: TPM 2.0 spec is less than two years old

      I agree with your sentiment, and I'm uncertain of the TPM 2.0 spec, but TPM 2.0 devices have been available since before Windows 10.

      1. DS999 Silver badge

        Re: TPM 2.0 spec is less than two years old

        The TPM 2.0 spec was finalized in late 2019, how could you offer TPM 2.0 compliance before the spec is even finalized? You sure you aren't thinking about TPM 1.2 devices, those have been around longer.

        Now maybe 2.0 was pretty well set in stone a year or two earlier, there's always a lot of red tape when a standards organization blesses a spec. But I'd be highly skeptical of anything that claims to be TPM 2.0 that was made in say 2016 - there's only so much update via software you can do, particularly of a standard that is supposed to be hardware based. If it is so easily updated via software, what stops malicious actors from "updating" 2.0 devices in a way that totally compromises them?

        The reason I think they are insisting on 2.0 is that there are some pretty serious attacks on 1.2, some of which are supposedly unfixable. They have to keep Hollywood happy or they won't let you view their content on Windows 11!

        1. thondwe

          Re: TPM 2.0 spec is less than two years old

          TPM 2 devices pre-date the official spec (Standards always take time) - My kids laptops have it and they hail from 2017 - Google trawl suggests 2014 for first devices?

          BTW, Moaning about WIndows 11 Home needing an MS account - anyone got far with an iphone without an apple account or Chromebook/android without a Google account - the world is what it is...

        2. Sandtitz Silver badge

          Re: TPM 2.0 spec is less than two years old

          "The TPM 2.0 spec was finalized in late 2019, how could you offer TPM 2.0 compliance before the spec is even finalized? You sure you aren't thinking about TPM 1.2 devices, those have been around longer."

          I'm certain. Conversion software for (some) TPM chips to from 1.2 to 2.0 has been available for quite some time from the usual computer manufacturers.

          Digging around, it seems that the TPM authority has released the latest revision of TPM 2.0 last year, and the earliest revision there is from 2013.

          "If it is so easily updated via software, what stops malicious actors from "updating" 2.0 devices in a way that totally compromises them?"

          The TPM chips very likely only accept updates that are cryptographically signed. Just like most BIOS and other firmware updates these days.

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: TPM 2.0 spec is less than two years old

          I've got 100s of 2016 and 2017 desktops and laptops here and they all support tpm 2.0.

          Just bog standard business Lenovo's. Nothing fancy.

    3. elsergiovolador Silver badge

      Re: TPM 2.0 spec is less than two years old

      Is TPM backdoored or is that for more accurate tracking?

      Not sure what else would they need it for.

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

    4. Wayland Bronze badge

      Re: TPM 2.0 spec is less than two years old

      A DLL change in the installer removes the TPM requirement.

    5. Chris G Silver badge

      Re: TPM 2.0 spec is less than two years old

      If MS is indeed thinking, it may be thinking about the corporate funds they have invested with makers of the hardware required by Win11.

      If I was Microshaft, that's what I would do.

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    One word: underwhelming.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Nah, Android apps on it will be good. Takes power away from Google.

      Let me guess, you're a salty Linux user.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        re: Let me guess, you're a salty Linux user.

        As opposed to what?

        1. ThatOne Silver badge
          Happy

          Re: re: Let me guess, you're a salty Linux user.

          A sweet Linux user?

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        I'm a Windows user, actually. It just seems a bit disappointing for a major new version. So the taskbar is now centred, and you can run Android apps. Is that it? Did Microsoft actually ask Windows users what they wanted, as I can't imagine many saying "Gee, it would be great if I could run Android apps".

        1. tiggity Silver badge

          There's plenty of software you can install to run an android device virtually on a PC, be it the android dev kit from Google or simple stand alone stuff like Nox, LDPlayer etc. (free & ad infested to monetize aimed at non techy folks who cannot use Googles android dev kit or otherwise set up an android VM)

          Back (years ago) when I did some android dev stuff, all my android development was on an emulated android on the PC & it only went on a real mobile device for "real world" testing after it had been fully tested in the virtual environment (which was great as could easily test all sorts of different "phones" - different android versions, screen size, DPI etc - far better than just using a few random "real" phones you had around as allows a real mix of different setups to be tested)

        2. rmullen0

          AC hit the nail on the head. Microsoft doesn't bother asking users what they want. They just do what they want regardless.

    2. Wayland Bronze badge

      I am a Linux user but from what I have seen of the leaked Windows 11 it's easier to use than Windows 10.

  20. viscount

    Has MS explained why Windows 11 exists at all given they clearly said Windows 10 was the final release? The real reason may be marketing, but what is the excuse? Corporate customers are not going to be thrilled with another major Windows version.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Did you really believe them? Did you believe their marketing department was going to give up on a new marketing push every 5-10 years?

      1. viscount

        I don't really get that - most of their money comes from corporate subscriptions and they hate new major versions.

    2. Candy

      Throwing Jerry Nixon under the bus...

      "given they clearly said Windows 10 was the final release"

      They kind of never did. Jerry Nixon (a developer evangelist at MS) said "Windows 10 is the last version of Windows." So it's true that he said this. Once. It's also true that when asked about it, MS has never confirmed this to be true. Sure, they didn't deny it either.

      This quote is very much over-reported.

      1. viscount

        Re: Throwing Jerry Nixon under the bus...

        Interesting how little they have said about new version cycles at all before this. If you were buying into a strategic OS wouldn't the update/upgrade strategy be a key question?

    3. ThatOne Silver badge
      Devil

      > Corporate customers are not going to be thrilled

      So what? It's not like they can jump ship... They're so bogged down in technical debt that they will keep paying just to keep their company working.

  21. J27 Silver badge

    Is it weird that I'm exciting about the Window Tiling features AND ONLY the Window Tiling features?

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      I don't think you're weird, but then who's to know I'm not weird?

      Yeah, the tiling features and virtual desktops (something that seems so obvious and useful when I've used it in other Desktop Environments)

  22. rcxb Silver badge

    "And if you do bring your own commerce engine, you keep 100 per cent of your revenue, we keep zero."

    24th June, 2021. Keep the date. This is the kind of promise that will get slowly watered down a bit at a time, until nobody makes a fuss when it is reversed entirely. At least, assuming they're successful in driving more developers to use their "Store". This sounds like Microsoft from the old days, promising vendors everything, then doing the opposite.

    1. Richard 12 Silver badge

      Probably not

      It costs practically nothing to run an "app store", and nobody sells anything on the Microsoft one anyway.

      I've only even opened it to get WSL images.

  23. TVC

    Windows 10 may be my last Windows version.

    Just checked my main machine and it won't run Windows 11 so Windows 10 may well be the last Windows version for me.

    1. rmullen0

      Re: Windows 10 may be my last Windows version.

      Maybe that's what Microsoft meant when they said that Windows 10 was going to be the last version of Windows. It was the last nail in the coffin and all that users could tolerate.

  24. BrowserUk

    I might upgrade in 2030, if I live that long.

    I only stopped using Vista 7 months ago. (Despite all the initial furore, once the UAC had been tamed; the services trimmed and few other annoyances defanged, it was a rock solid OS -- my best uptime was 4 1/2 years, ended by a local power cut. Best of all, no tracking and I controlled the updates.)

    The need for new hardware finally prompted me to upgrade; but only after I'd spent a year researching the web for how to take control of Windows 10; the final element was the release of the newer versions of the SledgeHammer.

    By about 2030, the new generation of keen, young activists will have worked out how to tame MS's desires in treat their users like sheep, and poke their fingers into every orifice and load up MY PC with a bunch of crap I have no use for and wouldn't use if I did; at that point -- assuming I'm still alive and retain the mental faculties and incentive to find and follow the usually baroque sets of instructions and procedures required to take back control, I might consider installing it -- if I need to.

    Otherwise, I guess I'll get a chromebook.

    1. Wayland Bronze badge

      Re: I might upgrade in 2030, if I live that long.

      All the amazing things of Windows 7 came from Vista. Congratulations on 54 months uptime.

  25. Jason Hindle Silver badge

    So will this be the full Windows that runs on mobile?

    Being able to run Android apps does look like the gateway to something that runs on mobile. Obviously, Microsoft would need to skin it to win it.

    1. CrackedNoggin Bronze badge

      Re: So will this be the full Windows that runs on mobile?

      I thought MS already tried that and abandoned it. Was it Windows 8?

      1. Jason Hindle Silver badge

        Re: So will this be the full Windows that runs on mobile?

        That was the disastrous Windows Mobile 8. Mobiles are now powerful enough to run the full OS. Microsoft has a big advantage over Apple in this area in being a software first company. So where Apple would never allow full macOS to run on an iPad, for fear of cannibalising sales in other areas, Microsoft is free to provide a phone or tablet that can be all things to all people*.

        * Though they did try and fail with this in the tablet space. Samsung shows the way in this area, with its DEX product.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: So will this be the full Windows that runs on mobile?

      Win 11 comes with xCloud which will let you play xbox and PC games on Android.

      If they can stream games, I am sure they can stream subscribed windows programs as well.

  26. Blackjack Silver badge

    Just what everyone wants in Windows, Android malware.

    1. Evil Scot
      Coat

      You assume malware distributors ship via Amazon app store. and that Amazon will still support it.

      Icon as coat has a passport in the pocket.

      1. Blackjack Silver badge

        EVERY APP STORE HAS MALWARE, Be it the one from Apple, Google, Amazon you name it.

        Is a growing problem, if not even Apple walled garden can keep malware truly away, what can you expect for Windows? More so as we already had just a few months ago, a case of "Run Android Apps on Windows and Linux" have severe security issues.

  27. Michael B.

    Linux Subsystem - Android?

    Hang on, I wonder if this whole Linux subsystem malarkey in Windows 10 was really just a prelude to having Android apps all along.

    1. Pirate Dave Silver badge
      Pirate

      Re: Linux Subsystem - Android?

      Yeah, it's weird, for sure. I can see running Linux stuff on Win Server, not so much on desktop. Not really sure what the Android compatibility brings them long-term - certainly seems a lot of work just to run fart-apps and games and apps that mostly make me wish I was on a full computer.

      Maybe MS just wants to finally run a popular phone OS...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Linux Subsystem - Android?

        Android apps are effectively Java apps. Why would there be issues running up a Java VM on windows?

        1. Richard 12 Silver badge
          Boffin

          Re: Linux Subsystem - Android?

          Most non-trivial Android apps are compiled to native code. Usually written in C++, but other compiled languages with C bindings are used too.

          Part of the reason Microsoft can do this is because Windows 10 already supports OpenGL/OpenGL ES (via ANGLE) and Vulkan.

          Every phone app is hardware accelerated as the CPUs aren't great at pushing pixels, so that part is critical to support.

        2. sw guy

          Re: Linux Subsystem - Android?

          Oh no.

          (letting apart the case of native code)

          Java as a source language, yes (though you should have a look at Kotlin).

          But Android does not run a standard JVM:

          Java bytecode is transformed into something very specific to Android before your phone dares to execute application.

        3. Richard Plinston

          Re: Linux Subsystem - Android?

          > Android apps are effectively Java apps.

          While many Android apps have been written using the Java language, they are actually Dalvik apps that run using the Dalvik VM or ART. They do not run on any Java VM.

      2. Wayland Bronze badge

        Re: Linux Subsystem - Android?

        There are import apps available only on smartphones. It's annoyed me for along time that these don't run on a PC. I suppose I could get an emulator but I always ended up with something crap.

    2. Geoff Campbell

      Re: Linux Subsystem - Android?

      No. Android Apps don't go anywhere near WSL, as far as I can tell.

      GJC

  28. gandalfcn Silver badge

    "What you need to know about Microsoft Windows 11" Nothing, nada , zilch. End of.

    1. Nick Ryan Silver badge

      You need to know about Microsoft Windows 11. It's the latest thing from a dominant monopoly therefore avoiding it is near impossible and counter-productive unless your mentality is one of "I don't like what I am seeing therefore I am going to shut my eyes and walk around blindly pretending that I didn't see it".

      As for what you need to know about Microsoft Windows 11? Largely that it's little more than a minor UI reskin, a further attempt to lock users into Microsoft's online rental ecosystem, all with an extra sprinkling of needless hardware requirements to enforce unnecessary hardware churn.

      1. rmullen0

        "As for what you need to know about Microsoft Windows 11? Largely that it's little more than a minor UI reskin, a further attempt to lock users into Microsoft's online rental ecosystem, all with an extra sprinkling of needless hardware requirements to enforce unnecessary hardware churn."

        Oh man. You hit the nail on the head on that one. Good comment. Nice and succinct and cuts to the core.

  29. JDPower666
    Facepalm

    The irony of system requirements that rule out a bunch of devices, then having a promo vid stating "Designed for any device"

  30. RLWatkins

    KDE? Android apps?

    Well, at least they didn't copy GNOME 3 again, but instead this time copied a shell which people actually like.

    As for Android apps, it's called an "emulator". I've been running them on Win7, started... what? Eight or nine years ago? Always worked just fine.

    1. Wayland Bronze badge

      Re: KDE? Android apps?

      Better if they run like WINE runs Windows programs on Linux. The programs run normally and not in a little box.

  31. rmullen0

    Welcome to Windows 11, the new Windows 7 and Windows XP

    With the TPM and other stupid requirements, this will just be what happened with Windows 7 all over again. Namely, tons of people refusing to upgrade, as well they shouldn't with Microsoft's stupid authoritarian decision making that is based on nothing but making them more $$$$$.

  32. steviebuk Silver badge

    No choice at all

    "Personal computing requires choice. We need to nurture and grow our own agency over computing itself. We want to remove the barriers that too often exist today and provide real choice and connection."

    Requiring a UEFI bios and TPM 2 (even if not using Bitlocker it sounds like) and forcing people to have a Microsoft account to carry on the install for Windows 11 Home is fucking choice.

    I'm an IT engineer by day, but more and more I'm getting dishearted with the way Windows is going. Soon it will be software as a service "No Internet? Tough tits. Move out of the stick or use something else. We don't care, it will be software as a service and you will pay the yearly sub for it".

    Its why I'll be keeping hold of my current PC and my spare for years. So if I want to go back to old games and the glory days, I can.

    1. Wayland Bronze badge

      Re: No choice at all

      I'm running Windows 11 with a local account.

    2. ThatOne Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: No choice at all

      > "Personal computing requires choice"

      Who told you he was talking about your choice?...

      It's not about you, it's about making profit.

  33. js6898

    mspaint

    This doesn't even make sense - by the end of W10 support in 2025 there are still going to be millions (hundreds of millions?) of perfectly good PCs and laptops running W10 without TPM2 that can't be upgraded. Are they going to be left without security patches etc after 2025?

    Also, I bet they get rid of mspaint leaving only paint3D - a deal breaker for me!

    I knew they would disallow a local account even before the announcement - they have been wanting to do this for a long time.

    Wonder if they will stop using the HOSTS file, thus removing one way of stopping ads etc?

    One thing I predict is that they will remove the various ways we have of stopping automatic windows update eg by making the update and medic services unstappable.

    1. steviebuk Silver badge

      Re: mspaint

      The local account issue is fucking stupid. They are essentially saying "All you people out in the sticks or with no Internet, fuck you, you can't have Windows 11".

      Dicks.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: mspaint

      Time to find a Win2k/XP computer and copy the MSPaint, Notepad, and Wordpad EXEs. They're always handy to have around.

      1. js6898

        Re: mspaint

        ... and the dlls

        1. Pirate Dave Silver badge

          Re: mspaint

          Only Wordpad uses external files (three .WPC files). Paint and Notepad are self-contained, as far as I can tell.

  34. arachnoid2 Bronze badge

    TPM 2.0 chipset

    Ive seen mention this is only a requirement of the beta not the final edition

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BO52a70XlYo

    There are even mentioned on reddit of chromebooks running the beta with no tpm

    1. Silly_Monkey

      Re: TPM 2.0 chipset

      Requirements listed here : https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/whats-new/windows-11-requirements

  35. demonwarcat

    Windows 10 like Windows 7

    While I understand why Microsoft are insisting on UEFI and TPM this is going to slow down take up massively. Of my machines only one meets the requirements. I don't know why one laptop doesn't as Microsoft's tool helpfully doesn't report why. As I build my my own desktops none has a TPM module. I did consider adding one to my main machine a couple of years back. I have been considering updating my gaming machine and this buts that is now on the backburner until mainboard manufacturers make TPM modules standard not an add on you can plug in if you can track one down. Since all my machines are stable and perform sufficiently for there jobs I don't see me spending money just to make them Windows 11 compatible. Until faced with a hardware failure or performance drops below an acceptable level I shall just keep running Windows 10. And if that takes me past 2025 then reluctantly I shall run Windows 10 unsupported. My personal guess is there are sufficient people in a similar position that like with Windows 7 Microsoft will be forced to extend support

    1. steviebuk Silver badge

      Re: Windows 10 like Windows 7

      Same. Are charity worked for has a training room with old kit in. Doesn't need to be fancy, its good enough. All upgraded to Windows 10 just fine with SSDs slapped in. However, now, none of them will be able to use Windows 11 if a TPM2 chip is required.

      It doesn't appear to be about security in my eyes, more like DRM.

      1. Claverhouse Silver badge

        Re: Windows 10 like Windows 7

        The first thing a Charity ought to do is to landfill every old ( <3 years ) piece of kit and buy the very latest recommended kit --- and budget for Windows Licenses. After all, charities' main purpose is to support international conglomerates.

    2. Geoff Campbell

      Re: Windows 10 like Windows 7

      > this is going to slow down take up massively

      It occurred to me this morning that perhaps something Microsoft learned from Windows 10 was that a slower take-up can be beneficial for them. Windows 10 as it exists today is very different to the launched version five years ago, it has evolved and changed as the population has grown. And today, they have 1.3 billion live instances, which isn't too shabby.

      I wonder if perhaps this has been seen as a good experience for Microsoft?

      GJC

  36. LybsterRoy Bronze badge

    Just for a giggle I thought I test my main laptop - its still running W7. FUN - the compatibility tool requites W10 to run. I do have one (old HP laptop) in the house running W10 so I may try it on that later.

    Looks like I'll keep on with W7 on the three PCs mainly in use and Mint on my ultraportable.

    1. Spacedinvader
      Facepalm

      did the same thing, result --->

  37. RyokuMas Silver badge
    Trollface

    "Windows machines will be able run Android apps..."

    As if there aren't already enough ways to get viruses onto Windows machines!

  38. Binraider Bronze badge

    The complete list of Android applications anyone wants to actually run on Windows?

    Yes, there we go, that was a long list. I accept it's a useful capability (sort of) for development reasons. But not that useful. You absolutely will want to test on real hardware. This is a desperation response to the rise of Chromebook; and fails to acknowledge why Chromebook is doing well. Price tag, familiarity, performance adequate for the applications it's needed on.

    Regarding the TPM2 requirement. A cursory google suggests most of work supplied tools post 2018 either has, or can be flashed to upgrade to TPM2. If the manufacturer chooses to release such an update. Otherwise, it is an e-waste generator in a time when PC hardware is already in short supply. 2018 isn't old in an era where PC's hardware performs well even if 5 to 10 years old. 2025 might be the 10 retirement date; so at that point 7yr old kit falling out of support is to be expected. Though remember the last 18 months of Win7 support weren't exactly shining lights; enforced obsolescence to motivate sales.

    This feels like the manufacturing consortia have pressured MS to put in a requirement to help motivate sales further.

    As for the visual fluff - don't care. QOL improvements? Can't see anything.

    If anyone asks me for a recommendation - and doesn't know what they are doing - Chromebook or M1 depending on objective. For anyone that does know their way around a computer. Flatten and install BSD or Linux of choice. Come and join us!

    1. arachnoid2 Bronze badge

      Blackberry

      Remember how long they lasted after integrating android appz.

    2. Wayland Bronze badge

      Someone asked me for laptop advice for their young child. They had found a Windows 10 machine with 4GB RAM. I assumed that when they said Laptop they wanted Windows so I said that 4GB would be horrible to use. Instead we selected a Chromebook which was cheaper than the Windows 10 machine but worked much better. No complaints that it was not Windows 10, perfectly happy with what the Chromebook does.

      I think Windows is only needed for legacy support. If the user does not have prior Windows requirements then they more choices.

  39. Fursty Ferret

    Remember: if it's free, you're the product being sold.

    * which is not to say that I won't use it in the same way that I use Gmail. Also shiny. And round corners.

    ** my personal preference is that until all the old Windows 2000 control panel dialogs are gone, you're not allowed to call it Windows 11.

    *** actually, I wonder if Windows 2000 still works in 2021?

  40. Ken Moorhouse Silver badge

    "...just..."

    "For businesses, it is just another feature update in the annual series of feature updates they have to deal with in the new 'Windows as a Service' world,"

    "...just..."

    pffft

  41. Tilda Rice

    So, no Android or Tablet for you? Need a Google account

    So, no Apple device for you. Needs an Apple account

    Yes, lets pelt Microsoft for doing exactly what the other manufacturers do.

    I knew this whole thread would be juvenile MS hating.

    We even had the proverbial Micro$oft etc.

    Still frequented by 11 year olds.

    1. Wayland Bronze badge

      Firstly the reason I won't have Android is I won't have a Google account.

      Secondly Microsoft are not forcing the MS account they are just urging strongly. You can install with a local account.

    2. julian_n

      My Android device is quite happy without a Google account - /e/

      1. rmullen0

        Sure, if you don't need apps from the app store.

        1. tiggity Silver badge

          .. sideload sorts that out

        2. This post has been deleted by its author

    3. ThatOne Silver badge
      Thumb Down

      > lets pelt Microsoft for doing exactly what the other manufacturers do

      So what if others do it too? Billions of flies eat crap, does this really mean we should do the same?

      Windows was (till recently) the OS you could run without an "account" requirement. You could make one if you needed one (dev or IT guy), but it wasn't mandatory.

      You might ask why not have an account, it's not like it costs anything. Well, it does make things more complicated as you need a working internet connection at all times (which is fine if you stay at home, but not guaranteed on the road or in the boonies), not to mention I'm not comfortable handing out my name and address to anybody who asks.

      I was a stanch supporter of Microsoft once, I've been using PCs since the original two-floppies "IBM PC" running DOS. I've bought and used Windows 3, 3.11, 95, 98, 2000, XP (32 and 64-bit), 7 (32 and 64-bit), but when Microsoft turned hostile I slammed the door and went Linux. Don't try to sugarcoat me the train wreck that is the current Windows marketing. User experience, the one thing users actually care about, has steadily gone down since WinXP. Win7 was the last palatable Windows from a user point of view, and even then they had already started to hide settings and make changing them harder and harder.

      /rant

      (Didn't downvote you though.)

      1. Geoff Campbell

        1) You don't need a working Internet connection at all times, only when you are initially installing Windows. It works perfectly well off-line with a Microsoft account, even if your files are stored on OneDrive (they can be cached locally and will sync when you next connect);

        2) You don't need to give Microsoft anything other than a valid email address to set up a Microsoft account. And that email address can be dedicated purely for use with a single PC if you like.

        GJC

        1. bombastic bob Silver badge
          Stop

          no thanks. I still do NOT want it.

          1. Geoff Campbell

            That's your choice to make, knock yourself out. But the choice should be made on the basis of actual real facts, rather than rumour and falsehood, yes?

            Me, I run a whole range of OSs, for a whole range of tasks. Windows on the desktop, various flavours of Linux and OpenBSD for server and network stuff, VMware hypervisor underpinning a lot of them, Android on phones and tablets. I think there's a couple of VMS machines in the loft, but that's ancient history. It's all good.

            GJC

            1. ThatOne Silver badge

              > But the choice should be made on the basis of actual real facts, rather than rumour and falsehood

              Agree, and for me the "account" thing isn't the big issue, it's just the last straw which, taken individually, wouldn't bother me more than that.

              The real problem is, as I said above, user experience. My experience, actually. In XP I knew where to look for about everything settings-related, and it was cleanly put in obvious categories, with a consistent UI. In Win7 already some of those settings modules had been replaced by "Wizard" type dialogue panels with the pertinence of a drunken Clippy.

              The best example of this evolution is the simple disc checking tool (CHKDSK and its descendants): At first you got a nice full, complete report of what it had found and done. By Win7 Microsoft had decided we didn't need to bother our little heads with such technical things, so no result report at all. If you programmed it to run at startup it would write an entry into the system log (you had to stumble upon it to know), but if you did check a disk on the fly - nothing. Seriously, what would it cost to keep showing the old results window CHKDSK used to show since the very beginning? It's clearly a case of regression for regression's sake.

  42. arachnoid2 Bronze badge

    appraiserres.dll

    There is mention of bypassing the tpm requirement by installing appraiserres.dll

  43. Tim 11

    "rekindle the passion of fans"

    fix the UI (yes just go back to windows 7 if you must)

    remove the adverts and crapware

    then you might stand a chance of getting your fans back

  44. Victor Ludorum

    So if it needs TPM 2.0

    What's going to happen to all those motherboards that self builders and small shops use? There's going to be one almighty stampede for TPM2 modules.

    Dell have got a 'sale' on at the moment and I can't find much mention of Win11 or TPM. Some people are going to be upset in 6 months time when they can't upgrade their 'new' computer...

    Also, will we be able to run it in a VM? I'm sure some people would like to run various setups in VMs for testing etc...

    1. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Unhappy

      Re: So if it needs TPM 2.0

      will we be able to run it in a VM?

      VMWare appears to have TPM virtualization. VirtualBox does NOT, as far as I can tell.

      In my search on this subject I have run across one or two TPM software solutions, particularly one on github.

      I would expect VirtualBox to support this eventually, but it could end up being a PAYED ENHANCEMENT of some kind (and may not be supported on Linux, and PROBABLY NOT on FreeBSD). But we shall see. If the tech needs ilcensing, money will end up changing hands.

      needless to say, if TPM 2 is required, and I can't run it in a virtualbox VM, I will NOT be testing it.

  45. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The stupid app to check to see if your computer will run Windows 11 just tells me no, and does not tell me why, typical Microsoft.

  46. Silly_Monkey

    hmmm - interesting : "Our commitment to sustainability

    We’re building sustainability into everything we do, including our operations, products, and programs."

    "Empowering our customers

    We are developing and delivering sustainable solutions, tools, and resources to help our customers accelerate their sustainability progress."

    Source : https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/corporate-responsibility/sustainability/report

  47. Omnipresent

    Nothing to see here.

    32 bit side loaded android third party apps are perfectly safe, nothing to see here.

  48. bernmeister
    Holmes

    I ran check.

    I ran the compatibility check but it was not specific. It simply said I could not run Windows 11. I dont have the time to sit down and work out what is not compatible. I am running windows 10 on a modern laptop. It exceeds all the basics such as processor performance, memory size, disk size, screen size (I am running three screens using a Kensington adaptor), so I am just going to skip it. for a few years.

  49. Anonymous South African Coward Silver badge

    How long before a vulnerability is found via android?

    Nah, will give it a skip until it's more solid. V1.00 of anything = full of bugs and nasty critters.

  50. arachnoid2 Bronze badge

    Nowt like a bit of confucius to make ones day.

    Windows 11 check says no way hosey, so I check the internet on a Dell 5770 . Some says no some say yes its under TPM in the bios on some models of that number.

    Check bios no TPM setting but there is a PTT which when enabled passes the Microsoft checks......

  51. Sil

    Limited compatibility

    Here's my problem with Windows 11: Graphic card, DirectX 12 & WDDM 2.x

    I bough components to build a brand new computer in December 2020, except a graphic card, since modern ones were, still are, and will be probably until H2 2022 impossible to purchase.

    I installed my old NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970 in my computer.

    Hence, it is NOT compatible with Windows 11.

    I'm pretty sure I won't be alone with this issue, unless bitcoin value goes to $0.

    1. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Unhappy

      Re: Limited compatibility

      remember the worldwide RAM shortage when Windows '95 released?

      graphics cards and TPM modules. Oh, joy.

  52. Diez66

    Central Windows Button

    Why, now I will have to pay attention not just flick the mouse down:

    OK I could use the key!, I could worry about something really important.

    It will be configurable, please?

  53. taxman

    Only Some Android Apps....

    Read the small print. Only those available from the Amazon App store, @500k. So not all those other couple of million on the Google Play Store. Not really big news then.

    1. arachnoid2 Bronze badge

      Re: Only Some Android Apps....

      Be interesting to see if apk files run.

      1. mrmond

        Re: Only Some Android Apps....

        You can sideload apk files.

        Source winaero.com, theverge, windowscentral & a lot of other places.

  54. jason_derp Bronze badge

    Jumping the gun, and the hand, and the arm, the person...

    "...due be officially released around November or December this year..."

    The lone man in a booth ordering three pies before his appetizer has even arrived.

    The overweight guy walks into the gym for the first time and asks his PT if he can run a marathon next week.

    A guy orders some krill eggs online and begins looking into registering as a zoo.

    I've got a million metaphors. You can't just drop the cack-smelling heap of Win10 that you made on our shoes and then tell us the next one is worth buying, @holes.

  55. Aussie Doc Bronze badge
    Coat

    Optional sensible title here

    Okay, I'm retired but keep good with a few of my old customers and a while back two of them were given laptops to play with when they first had to work from home.

    Just a couple of Thinkpads I had lying around running a latest Cinnamon Mint of some sort with full printer compatibility (a Brother Laser IIRC) and their 'fave' internet thingy (Firefox).

    They are not the most IT tech folk (they say that's why they pay me the big bucks 'lol') but both heard about the new Windows 11 and how it probably won't work on their newish work machines.

    They want me to install that same motor (OS - they are truckies) I had on the laptops because they never had any problems at all with them and realised that most of their computer stuff was all based online.

    Now, if these guys feel comfortable using an alternative to MS because they basically live 'in the Cloud' (for better or worse) then I can see the potential for other smaller businesses looking to do the same.

    Certainly in my part of the woods (actually, desert) businesses simply don't have the big bucks to be buying new hardware just to run a new OS even allowing for the continued current Windows 10 support.

    Food for thought for some, I suppose.

    Still looking in my pocket for the big bucks ---------------------------------------------------------^^

    1. Ken Moorhouse Silver badge

      Re: Food for thought for some, I suppose.

      I'm sure this will kickstart the legacy market.

      I'm doing a fair amount of work recovering data trapped in older applications and supplying it in the form of an application that will run on older or newer versions of Windows.

      Newer apps seem to take a slap-dash approach to accuracy on the basis that quantity of data has ballooned, it is impossible to achieve precision. A good example of that is bank reconciliation apps that take their input from a bank feed and [allegedly] spit out a set of accounts at the other end. This Android trend will accelerate this, people will follow like sheep, sideline their accountants, and get devoured by HMRC. Ok I've digressed from the main point, but you mark my words, what is happening now in the "App" world is really not healthy.

  56. Jonjonz

    So all you need to run Android Apps natively in Windows is 32 Gig memory. I am impressed.

  57. LeoPukk

    obsolete

    I see the transtion to X11 as a way of Microsoft to avoid further developments for 32-bit, small tablets and laptops. That will make them obsolete in 2025.

  58. fiskrond

    Cheap grog for those who don't know the difference..

    Even as a utter noob non-techie Win>Linux home user... Windows is increasingly striking me as the equiv to Smirnoff vodka/Jack Daniels whisky...

    A shite product with a huge marketing budget...

  59. This post has been deleted by its author

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