back to article Mark it in your diaries: 14 October 2025 is the end of Windows 10

Microsoft has updated its product lifecycle documentation to state that Windows 10 Home and Pro will be retired on 14 October 2025. The statement is likely linked to the forthcoming event on 24 June where Microsoft promises to unveil what's next for Windows. Note that it is the future of Windows, not of Windows 10, that is the …

  1. Nifty

    They're going to fix that bug whereby legacy machines are still able to run Windows 10.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      The fact that you can't upgrade to 20H2 if your machine's BIOS does not support secure boot would seem to fix running it on legacy hardware...

      1. Sandtitz Silver badge

        The fact that you can't upgrade to 20H2 if your machine's BIOS does not support secure boot would seem to fix running it on legacy hardware...

        [citation needed]

        I'm running Win10 21H1 (updated from 20H2) on native UEFI sans Secure Boot. No problems detected.

        1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

          But is your UEFI box *capable* of Secure Boot? Maybe that's what he meant. Legacy machines that don't even have a Secure Boot option might be what will eventually be no longer supported. They've not yet made Secure Boot mandatory.

          1. Sandtitz Silver badge

            "But is your UEFI box *capable* of Secure Boot?"

            Yes. It is a 4th gen i7 laptop, but due to alternate booting I've disabled Secure Boot for easier living.

            "Legacy machines that don't even have a Secure Boot option might be what will eventually be no longer supported."

            Oh, I'm sure that will happen one day. Or at least requiring UEFI boot.

            Win8 already required certain processors instructions/features, and practically everything pre-AMD64 / Intel Core i series was not working. Those same CPU requirements stand today with Win10. Likely some CPU feature will be a requirement in the future, thus cutting out more hardware.

            ...Or requiring more RAM than older systems can be fitted with. Or removing legacy BIOS boot. Or dropping 32-bit support for those few % still using it.

      2. MarcC

        I happen to own a Dell Studio 17xx, 2008 vintage, and it runs Windows10 21H1 64 bit - reliably, albeit slowly. Keeps itself up to date thanks to Windows Update. Should MS stops supporting this system in 2025, this would be fair.

        Apple has I think long dropped support for 2008 Macbooks...

  2. theOtherJT Silver badge

    Too much to hope...

    ...that they'll stop this nonsense and go back to the previous model where you actually had half a chance of knowing which version of Windows the confused and angry person on the other end of the support call was using? Or that their version might bear some relation to the one you had because they hadn't mysteriously moved half the options and settings around between the Q1 and Q3 releases this year without telling anyone?

    1. MarkMac

      Re: Too much to hope...

      IMHO the current model is signficantly better for developers and support. The updates are smaller, less invasive and while things still go wrong, you rarely need to completely reinstall the entire OS from scratch. Its one of the few things MS have learned from the opensource / Linux world where the same strategy has been used for years. I almost never need to know what kernel or even version of Raspian or Ubuntu or Redhat I'm on.

      1. GiantKiwi

        Re: Too much to hope...

        Less invasive?

        I'm not sure it's physically possible to be any more invasive. In the past 4 months we've had an absolute crapstorm of cumulative updates which interfere with just about every process in existence.

        1. codejunky Silver badge

          Re: Too much to hope...


          Having peripherals mysteriously stop working and networking fall over completely being just some of the joys I have endured supporting with win10. Of course occurring after one of these glorious updates forced on the user.

      2. Warm Braw

        Re: Too much to hope...

        signficantly better for developers

        I think it depends very much on who you're developing for. If it's for a general desktop audience, you've still pretty much got to target Windows 7 for the legacy minority. If not, it's likely to be web-based. There will be cases for Windows 10-specific applications, but, beyond games, I'm struggling to think of many.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Too much to hope...

          How about anything that wants to properly support high DPI displays, or multi-touch devices, or DirectX 12 level GPU functionality (there are more than just games out there)?

      3. theOtherJT Silver badge

        Re: Too much to hope...

        Sure, I never need to do that with my linux boxes either, but that's because they don't throw in random UI changes along with each kernel version update :/

        1. Korev Silver badge

          Re: Too much to hope...

          I don't Gnome what you mean...

          1. Mike_R

            Re: Too much to hope...

            My personal choice is a distro.

            Unfortunately WFH requires I keep an updated Win10 box as well.

            OTOH my employment prospects for 2025 are between slim and none...

      4. Ken Hagan Gold badge

        Re: Too much to hope...

        It is certainly good for devs and support that there is little excuse to be running an old version. It is less good that the newer versions may be less good.

      5. Ramis101

        Re: Too much to hope...

        "the updates are smaller"??? LTSB updates are now around the 1.5Gb mark and on one piece of equipment i have to support (vendor installed OS) they take nearly an hour to apply. if they work 1st time.

      6. Blackjack Silver badge

        Re: Too much to hope...

        They are not less invasive, the update files are huge and the update pronts can ruin your day.

        1. My-Handle

          Re: Too much to hope...

          I agree.

          I'm out in the sticks, on a 2Mbps ADSL connection. A windows update for the two Win machines in the house can kill the connection for days, if we're unlucky.

          I always know when a windows update (or Adobe, their updater is worse) is coming. I have trouble loading a standard web page.

          1. Nifty

            Re: Too much to hope...

            Might be an idea to declare to Windows that the WiFi connection is a metered one, and flit to normal overnight. That should halt monster downloads during waking hours. Wonder if one could automate that?

            1. Ken Moorhouse Silver badge

              Re: Wonder if one could automate that?

              One way would be if your Router has a permissions schedule built into it. FritzBox Routers, for example, can be programmed to disable WiFi according to a schedule you set.

      7. Bond007

        Re: Too much to hope...

        less invasive?

        Not sure how much more invasive you could get, with forced updates, that may or may not crash your machine?!

        Erm, it isn't developers and support that matter though, it's the end user that counts, isn't it?

        Unless we don't give a sh1t about end users anymore, and just dump whatever sh1t we like on them?

        1. TheMaskedMan Silver badge

          Re: Too much to hope...

          And then reboot their machines at whim (our whim, not theirs) when we're done dumping shit on them.

          By all means, download updates and tell me they're available, but DO NOT reboot my machine without my explicit consent. Drives me nuts when I wander back to my machine to find all the stuff I left there yesterday gone.

  3. Jay 2

    I've never seen the point of changing product version numbers "just because everyone else is doing it" or "they have bigger numbered versions than us, we must compete!". See Solaris 2.x -> 7.x and Firefox 5.x onwards.

    1. DJV Silver badge

      Maybe they should just use a random number/character generator so that version 657.2 follows Aardvark 0.235 (which, itself, came after version -27a-crustacean). That wouldn't be confusing at all!

      1. David 132 Silver badge

        I find your ideas intriguing (and would like to subscribe to your newsletter, etc etc.)

        Software versioning should be much more poetic, à la Chinese imperial court. Who here would not want to be able to say, "I am running Firefox The-Delicate-Scent-of-Hibiscus-Blossoms-After-Spring-Rain"? (Such a person would be out of date by the end of the sentence, of course, Firefox's release cadence being what it is, but that's a whole 'nother gripe.)

    2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      "See Solaris 2.x -> 7.x and Firefox 5.x onwards."

      Totally agree. Except Joe and Josephine Average actually do seem to notice version numbers in at least some cases. Hey, mate, you got version 5 of firefox. It must be out of date because I got Chrome 28!

    3. Filippo Silver badge

      Because people are dumb and think that higher numbers are better. At some point, if you can't beat stupid, then you have to join them.

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Yeah, I mean, who runs Server 2008 here in the 2020's? :-)

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          We would if M$ hadn't killed it. The newer versions offer nothing to us in terms of what we actually use Windows server except, perhaps, improved security. the 'features' are a complete waste of time...

          1. Fred Goldstein

            You missed the point... I just tried winver and I'm using version 2004. And this is a fairly new machine, so why is it using a version from the XP era? ;-) That 2d-of-year+month convention worked okay before Y2K...

  4. MarkMac

    " for its "supported lifetime", at no cost."

    And by announcing an end-date for the product, MS have just informed you that they will be charging for the next version....

    1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      I seem to remember that someone decided, after running the numbers, it seems that Microsoft makes a loss from Windows over time. But it's considered to be a useful loss leader for that MS Office which is very profitable. The move to the subscription model, makes this somewhat moot. It was Office 365, now its Microsoft 365, and you will have Teams forcibly installed and you will use it!

      Hence, I think the real reason for the change will be to limit any liability claims for holdouts when Microsoft stop providing updates to all users.

      1. steamnut


        Their annual turnover and profits look seriously dented by the losses from Windows.....

        1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

          Re: Loss?

          That's the point: they can afford to give Windows away as long as people keep paying for MS Office and Exchange.

          From little subscriptions (and some tax havens) do enormous profits grow…

          1. Anne Hunny Mouse

            Re: Loss?

            You missed SQL which is a huge moneyspinner

    2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      "they will be charging for the next version...."

      One fees or monthly/annual subscription? My bet is on the latter.

      And not forgetting they have form for pushing updates that nag you about not upgrading from previous versions. Buy a new version/subscribe to the new service or see a black desktop with a dire warning message about no future updates and the massive security risk you now at.

    3. bombastic bob Silver badge

      they will be charging for the next version

      subscription, right?

      "Micros~1 Windows 361" (or 359, o 352, etc.)

    4. David 132 Silver badge

      Satya Nadella made a very revealing slip, accidental or otherwise, the other day - one which neither this article nor any of these comments seem to have picked up on.

      Describing his own experience of the new Windows version, he said something along the lines of "I have been self-hosting it for a while...". What an odd turn of phrase. "I have been using it", "I've had it running on my systems", sure. But "self-hosting"? Makes me fear that this new version will be much more SaaS-y than even Windows 10. Maybe a small stub installed on the PC, and everything else loaded in from The All-Mighty-Cloud as and when you^H^H^HMicrosoft decide it's needed? I fear it's going to make Adobe's rent-as-you-go model look like a paragon of old-fashioned perpetual licence virtue.

      Time to be afraid?

      1. Fr. Ted Crilly Silver badge

        Time to pick up your bed and bugger of to pastures new... tftfy :-)

      2. sebacoustic

        I thought self-hosting meant "running the toolchain to build the OS on the same OS", but I wouldn't expect for a CEO to build his own Windows from source...

      3. Ken Moorhouse Silver badge

        Re: "I have been self-hosting it for a while..."

        My interpretation is as follows:-

        The Operating System *is* Edge.

        To use your pc Edge loads up your Win365 page, which is your Desktop.

        Find the Explorer icon (they've moved it again...). Click on it and it shows all your files in a library called OneDrive (if you're lucky there might be a library called MyPC, but don't count on it). Hosted versions of Word and Excel are summoned using icons on your desktop (embedded in your personalised Edge session).

        They are not on your pc though. Everything is done in Azure, on MS Servers.

        Nothing is on your pc, which is effectively a dumb terminal.

        Scared? Frightened?

      4. Ken Hagan Gold badge

        I took it to mean "I'm so full of verbal diarrhea that I can't say "running" anymore.

  5. Dan 55 Silver badge

    Two possibilities

    1. Beancounter - changing the licensing model.

    2. Technical - changing over to the Linux kernel.

    1. Roger Greenwood

      Re: Two possibilities

      Both, along with the monthly subscription?

      There was me, almost ready to move to Win10.....

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Two possibilities

      Hope Dave Cutler will stop anybody attempting to use an OS design which was already old in the 1980s...

      1. bombastic bob Silver badge

        Re: Two possibilities

        you mean... like

        HAL is to IBM as VMS is to WNT

        (I had to do a search on Dave Cutler, to discover he's the former DEC guy that helped design VMS)

        1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

          Re: Two possibilities

          More specifically, he was hired by Microsoft to work on NT which, at that point incorporated some of the ideas of VMS.

        2. Fred Goldstein

          Re: Two possibilities

          VMS was a more advanced OS than Unix, having been started in 1977 with fairly large machines in mind, while Unix began in 1969 with fairly small machines in mind. Of course any old low-end PC today has many times the CPU power, storage, and memory of a 1978-era VAX-11/780. But VMS was a fine OS! Don't knock it unless you've lived with it. Linux is usable, especially for servers, but still displays hack upon hack.

          1. David 132 Silver badge

            Re: Two possibilities

            I would never knock VMS. I have happy memories of using the VAX at university. As I recall, it had an auto-versioning file system, so that for example subsequent saves of a file were available as NOTES.TXT;1 NOTES.TXT;2 and so on. Teenage me was impressed.

        3. Piro Silver badge

          Re: Two possibilities

          Someone on El Reg who doesn't know who Dave Cutler is? Surprising.

    3. bombastic bob Silver badge

      Re: Two possibilities

      changing over to the Linux kernel

      as cool as that would be, particularly for kernel drivers (assuming they don't taint the kernel nor require signing certificates), our hopes were dashed LAST time when we all probably believed that Windows 10 would be a revert back to 7's UI...

      (and a big big frowny face for that)

    4. martinusher Silver badge

      Re: Two possibilities

      The system I'm using to write this is set up for dual boot -- Windows 10 and Linux Mint. I put Linux on it because I was having issues with USB drivers for a JTAG debugger (I could run Linux as WSL or in a virtual environment I'll still have the driver problems). So I now have the choice of booting up either system and running Firefox and Thunderbird, essentially the same applications on the same hardware but with a different OS. Its night and day. Linux boots up a lot faster, its applications are mudh more responsive, installing drivers and even a network printer is a no brainer, its got so that I only boot up Windows occasionally because if I don't the update-du-jour cycle will mean it will take ages to start and I do need to use it.

      There is something very, very, wrong with the Windows ecosystem. You can tell there's an issue just by listening to the system -- if I leave Linux idling with just something like Firefox open then it will rapidly shut down and go quiet. Windows has the processor fan blasting away regardless of the nominal load on the processor. I haven't a clue what its doing, the Task Manger isn't very helpful, but I suspect that constant AV scans, file indexing and the endless quest for analytics just keeps the system on the boil.

      This isn't the first time I've noticed this. I've been running dual boot systems for decades and always its the same issue -- Windows is constantly 'busy'. The only version that I've ever enjoyed using is Windows 2000, it seemed to be hosted on a proper OS, it was not only quite responsive but really easy to write 'the kind of software I write' on (Posix compliant, if I recall correctly).

      1. ForthIsNotDead

        Re: Two possibilities

        Upvote for the Windows 2000 reference. It was a great, no nonsense OS. Reliable and fast.

        Would also up vote you again if I could for the Linux Mint reference (beer instead -->) - I too run Mint - however, I don't dual boot. It's just Mint. I have Win 10 in Virtual Box VM if I need it, but I haven't ran it for months! The only thing I need Windows for is Siemens PLC programming software on the rare occasions when I need it.

      2. Claire Sweet

        Re: Two possibilities

        Call me a luddite, but I agree, I used Windows 2000 Advanced Server as my daily PC for many years. Only when the motherboard died did I forcibly migrate to Vista for driver compatibility.. Win 7 is still where it's at if you want to know what the PC is actually up to and for the broadest driver support.

      3. Jonjonz

        Re: Two possibilities

        Just run Procmon and see all the mischief Win10 does, endless churning of registry entries.

        Also they don't even trust their own code or delivery system. After every update, windows anti-virus scans all the new files from the update, the logs for the update, and all the related temporary files, bricking your system until it finishes.

      4. Snake Silver badge

        Re: constantly on the boil

        Then something is wrong. I own, plus manage, 11 Win10 boxes and not one stays on the boil; my main personal box, a Thinkpad p71 Xeon / Quadro, goes completely silent when not in use, and all boxes hover at 0.5-4% (peaking) CPU when idle.

  6. Chris G

    Windows 10 is the last version of Windows,

    So, whatever comes next, it will not be called Windows?

    Perhaps the replacement will be called Doors or Drawers or maybe Ventanas (Spanish word for windows) to go with Cortanas ( Almost Spanish for curtains: cortinas).

    What I suspect is, it will be even more AAS with a confusing plethora of packages to pay for and daily AI auditing in order to squeeze every last penny out of you.

    1. Neil Barnes Silver badge

      Re: Windows 10 is the last version of Windows,

      Perhaps in Prague they will be looking forward with interest to the defenestration?

    2. katrinab Silver badge

      Re: Windows 10 is the last version of Windows,

      Or Microsoft Azure Desktop, client edition

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Windows 10 is the last version of Windows,


        They don't need any help...

      2. PerlyKing
        Thumb Up

        Re: Microsoft Azure Desktop

        I see what you did there ;-)

    3. Persona

      Re: Windows 10 is the last version of Windows,

      So, whatever comes next, it will not be called Windows

      On the contrary, I expect it will be called just "Windows" as the "10" version is now irrelevant what with it being delivered as a constantly evolving service. Folding both "Windows 10 Home" and "Windows 10 Pro" into "Windows" makes sense as there is no point in maintaining them as two different flavors.

      1. Dave559

        Re: Windows 10 is the last version of Windows,

        They're just secretly jealous that Macs go all the way up to 11…

        (It's a shame that with a joke that good/bad (and that took them long enough to get there), Apple are now going to go ahead and spoil it so soon…)

    4. Ken Moorhouse Silver badge

      Re: it's curtains for Windows

      and will no doubt zuffle off its mortal coil.

  7. thondwe

    (Only) A Bit like Porsche

    Porsche 911 is what's sold, Underneath it's a 996/7 etc. Windows 10 is like that - 20H1, 21H1 etc. Just expect them to drop the "10" are brand as "Windows Desktop" or "Windows Ten" - or even Windows Millennial/Gen-Z/Alpha or worse..

    1. Wexford

      Re: (Only) A Bit like Porsche

      I'd love to see Windows Millennial Edition.

      1. thondwe

        Re: (Only) A Bit like Porsche

        See I fed someone the chance to crack that..

      2. David 132 Silver badge

        Re: (Only) A Bit like Porsche

        Windows Millennial Edition:

        - Attempting to open any legacy 32-bit application plays the "ok boomer.wav" sound,

        - The mouse will only move leftwards, never to the right,

        - in dialog boxes, the "Cancel" button is three times the size of the "OK" one.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: (Only) A Bit like Porsche

        Windows already had a "Millennial Edition." They called it "Millennium Edition," but it was just as bad as anything they could call millennial.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    2025? That long?

    Oh well... we can but hope that MS decides to make the death of 'the last version of windows' something to celebrate.

    Sadly, I think it will herald the start of an era of subscriptions for all that may well start an exodus from the windows platform.

    In the meantime, I'll continue to reject all calls for help with a W10 system that no longer works the way it did before the last update.

    1. Greybearded old scrote Silver badge

      Re: 2025? That long?

      Exodus from the Windows platform? They didn't jump ship after

      * Iloveyou virus

      * ME

      * Requirement to beg MS for permission to run the code you just bought

      * Vista

      * Windows 8

      * Incredibly heavy handed data slurping

      Not going to happen.

      1. naive

        Re: 2025? That long?

        It is always hard to predict what happens. If google starts requiring that every handset should be suitable for a standard dock so it can be used as desktop, or manages to get an edge with chrome, any predatory behave of MS in regard to their desktop OS might backfire.

        The world is changing fast, millenials raised by their smart phone, might have different ideas about the average office desktop they want to use.

        1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: 2025? That long?

          "millenials raised by their smart phone, might have different ideas about the average office desktop they want to use."

          I doubt many of them are using just their smartphone for working at home.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: 2025? That long?

            Smartphones - or at least a mobile - now seem to be expected by my UK high street bank. They blocked my account over a "suspected fraud" because I made a large-ish transaction - and didn't contact me.

            I finally chased them and asked why they hadn't notified me by phone or email. They said the official file explanation was that my "phone number wasn't valid" - even though they acknowledged their CLI was showing me calling from that registered landline number.

            They decided the problem was that I had never given them a mobile number to which they could text.

            1. Toni the terrible Bronze badge

              Re: 2025? That long?

              It has crept upon us; Smartphones appear to be expected by all large organisations from Banks, Insurance to NHS to Other Gov Services, Amazon etc etc and if you don't have one (can you afford the subscription) it can be difficult. Many don't even accept emails (for various reasons) and some don't recognise landlines (why?). It is getting so that you will be a pariah excluded from society in general if you don't use a smartphone.

              1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

                Re: 2025? That long?

                Smartphones appear to be expected by all large organisations from Banks, Insurance to NHS to Other Gov Services, Amazon etc

                I can't think of a single organization I deal with which requires a smartphone. There are a few who ask for phone numbers and claim they'll send SMS messages, but a feature phone would work fine for that. (That's true of my mobile-service provider too.) And I imagine I could get by even without SMS if I wanted to.

                I installed a banking app on my phone once. I never used it. I couldn't find any reason to do so.

                I have no idea why you need a smartphone to deal with Amazon. When I have the misfortune to do so, I do it from my laptop.

                Of course this may differ where you are and with whom you deal, but it's certainly not true for me.

                1. terrythetech

                  Re: 2025? That long?

                  I have had online ordering that requires a mobile number only. Sometimes you can enter a landline number and it will work but some sites block the landline number completely.

                2. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: 2025? That long?

                  "[...] and claim they'll send SMS messages, but a feature phone would work fine for that.

                  My BT landline number happily accepts SMS messages. BT transcribe the text into an acceptable voice message. On that basis there is no reason for organisations to refuse to send text messages if you don't have a mobile.

                  I don't place orders with companies who insist on only a mobile number for any possible last-minute delivery messages. Any such messages are usually voice ones anyway to say they are arriving soon.

                3. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: 2025? That long?

                  "I have no idea why you need a smartphone to deal with Amazon."

                  IIRC the new concept of Amazon self-serve grocery stores requires you to have a smartphone.

                  When I ring any of my banking suppliers I have to endure a long message while they tell me I should be using their smartphone app. During the obstacle course of key-press options they repeat that message at every level. It doesn't help that their non-app online banking doesn't always provide the necessary contact options.

            2. terrythetech

              Re: 2025? That long?

              It may have changed but one of my friends used to accidentally text to my landline quite often and it works. The phone rings and a robot reads the text.

        2. ThatOne Silver badge

          Re: 2025? That long?

          > or manages to get an edge with chrome, any predatory behave of MS in regard to their desktop OS might backfire.

          Google itself is already predatory enough, which allows some leeway. At best there would be a gradual increase where alternately each of them tightens the screw a little more, so to stay not too far from what the competition does, but still make a little more profit.

          BTW I rather think it will be a cloudy version of Windows: Everything will be on some distant server, so on top of the OS/programs' subscription you'll have to pay for the space used lest your instance is deleted and you lose everything, your paid programs and your own data. It's the ideal solution because it removes all possibility of initiative from the user and allows them to monetize absolutely every aspect of his computer use. It will be slow, clumsy, limited and often unavailable, but that's nothing a couple lines in the T&C can't fix...

      2. JDPower666

        Re: 2025? That long?

        None of which required customers giving MS money every month.

      3. a_yank_lurker

        Re: 2025? That long?

        Most consumers never directly paid for Bloatware-as-a-Disservice/Disgrace. It was part of the box they paid for once. The proposed subscription model might cause an exodus. The other events would push some away for BaaD over time, those who are more tech savvy or willing to put up with a Fruity solution.

        1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

          Re: 2025? That long?

          Yes, any exodus, small or large, for home users, I suspect would be to either Apple or Chromebooks because they heard of that. Most have not heard of Linux at all, maybe some of the bigger "brands" with "funny sound names" like Ubuntu. Businesses will simply stump up in most cases because they short term investment in switching will be too great for them. A long term slow bleed seems more affordable than a sudden haemorrhage.

  9. Pirate Dave Silver badge


    Windows365 would keep the branding consistent with their office/online crap, and not require any further version numbers.

    1. DJV Silver badge

      Re: Obvs

      Apart from once every 4 years...

      1. Dave559

        Re: Obvs

        No need to change the name in leap years, that's just them trying to stay on the right side of "honest descriptions" with regard to the accumulated periods of downtime…

      2. RobThBay

        Re: Obvs

        ...unless the year is divisible by 100, except if the year is divisible by 1000.

        1800, 1900 and 2100 aren't leap years, but 2000 and 3000 are leap years.

        Plus, years divisible by 25,000 aren't leap years.


        1. PerlyKing

          Close, but no cigar

          The rules are:

          * The year must be evenly divisible by 4;

          * If the year can also be evenly divided by 100, it is not a leap year; unless...

          * The year is also evenly divisible by 400. Then it is a leap year.

          So 2000 was a leap year, but 3000 will not be a leap year.

          How quickly they forget ;-)

          1. Lon24

            Re: Close, but no cigar

            Nethertheless Windows 3000 has a rather authentic ring to it. I can hardly wait to upgrade my favourite VM ;-)

    2. Jim Willsher

      Re: Obvs

      This. And a likely trickle-feed (daily) of updates, same as O365, which we know breaks things….

    3. bombastic bob Silver badge

      Re: Obvs


      Your number '365' is too large. Try subtracting a bit...

    4. Pirate Dave Silver badge

      Re: Obvs

      Not to brag, but I was right...

  10. Wily Veteran

    No cost?

    What do they mean "no cost?" There's always a cost to everything, it's a basic law of the universe. Even FOSS comes with a cost in terms of incompatiilities, lack of features, need for some degree of technical knowledge &c.

    The "cost" of Windows might not be in dollars/pounds/euros/yen/yuan/whatever but there is a *very* high cost in terms of data slurping, constant bug squashing, lack of meaningful competition, ecosystem lock-in....

    1. Barry Rueger

      Re: No cost?

      Even FOSS comes with a cost in terms of incompatiilities, lack of features, need for some degree of technical knowledge

      Aside from sticking in a USB, rebooting, and accepting the defaults it's currently incredibly easy to unstall something like Mint, plus 99% of hardware will autoconfigure itself - especially the six or seven year old items that Windows rejects.

      And you avoid the hour long update and reboot nonsense, and the UI stays the same, year in, year out..

      Plus Linux sytems make PDF creation dead simple without forcing you into Adobe hell.

      Sure, if you need some specific apps you need Windows, but the majority of people can live happily with Linux and LibreOffice m

  11. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. mark l 2 Silver badge

      5 years of support is for those who held out until the very last minute before upgrading from 7, as if you upgraded to Window 10 when it was first released in 2015 you would have had 10 years of support by the time 2025 comes around. And going off previous Windows versions such as XP, Vista and 7 all became EOL after around 10 years so that amount of time seems pretty standard for MS to end support of their OS.

      Who knows whether Windows 11 or 365 or whatever the marketing dept decide to call it won't just really be Windows 10 under the hood with another name and whatever shiny shiny interface they try an tac onto it to make it seem new.

  12. FabricWalls

    My theory is that they’ll be moving Windows to a subscription model, like Office 365. Whereas, you either pay for major upgrades or pay a monthly subscription fee.

    1. WolfFan

      And they won’t be seeing any money from me. Existing systems will either stay as is or get moved to Linux or just be retired and replaced with Linux or Mac systems. New systems will be built with Linux or will be Macs. Apple will just love this.

      1. aks

        LInux maybe, but Apple never.

    2. Wade Burchette

      That won't work because people are not used to paying a monthly fee to use a device. You don't pay a monthly fee to Apple to get updates for iOS or OSX. Neither do you pay a monthly fee to Google to get updates for Android. The backlash against a subscription Windows will be too much.

      I, for one, will not pay for updates out of principle. I would, however, pay handsomely if Microsoft re-introduced Windows 7.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Most people seem to have a monthly contract for their mobiles and/or their music/video/TV streaming services. Landlines and ISPs have also been effectively subscription services for many years.

        It's getting to the point where you need a smartphone just to access some things - and not just in Amazon cashless grocery stores.

      2. ThatOne Silver badge

        > That won't work because people are not used to paying a monthly fee to use a device

        Older people. Younger people are very comfortable with the subscription/streaming model where you only have things as long as you keep paying for them. They call it "freedom" (the definition of "freedom" is clearly very elastic).

        Besides, home users aren't the real target, the real money is in enterprises and enterprises are used to that model, bean counters even prefer it. For them it spells "freedom" (well...).

        (Upvote for the Win7 suggestion, even it's pure utopia...)

  13. theBatman

    Alternative theory

    Just makes things easier if EVERYTHING IS TEAMS!

    No need for any other names.

    I bet their team discussed this at length with team Teams meetings, cross-team Teams chat with other teams on Teams and Teams posts on their team's Teams teams teams Teams TEAMS TEAMS TEAMS TEAMS!

    1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      Re: Alternative theory

      I'll have eggs, bacon an Teams please....loverly Teams, wonderful Teams.

      1. Rob Daglish

        Re: Alternative theory

        I moved recently from an environment that primarily used Teams for VC to one that uses Google Meets. I’m not sure why, but same laptop, wifi, DSL - Teams video was much better. The google one is slow, laggy, freezes randomly for 25-30 seconds. I never though I’d miss Teams…

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Alternative theory

        But I don't like Teams!

        (Not sure how to convey the proper accent via plain text)

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Alternative theory

      What's confusing is that the older Sharepoint docs seemed to have the concept of "teams" as part of how things worked in Sharepoint land, long before MS Teams became a thing. So it can be confusing at times to know whether a googled Sharepoint doc is talking about little-t "teams", or the Teams software, or teams in Teams.

  14. Derek Kingscote

    Windows 10 - only 5 years left

    Nobody needs any more than XP and Office 2003

    Upgrades serve nobody's purpose. How many services/project have had to do unnecessary re-work just because their Windows flavour changed ? And at vast cost!

    I get the occasional call from "Microsoft Support".

    I love telling them I'm on Windows 95 ;-)

    A mate of mine used to delight in saying : if you're prepared to have something three years old, you can have the very best there is at a much reduced cost!

    1. ThatOne Silver badge

      Re: Windows 10 - only 5 years left

      > if you're prepared to have something three years old, you can have the very best there is at a much reduced cost!

      Yes, it's true children get more cost-intensive as they grow older. Age 3 is a good compromise since it's past the sleepless nights, but before the point they acquire enough mobility to cause concern...

  15. G2

    MS will probably nuke any x86 code too

    given the history MS has with x86 builds of Win10 installation media, my guess of a major feature of the new OS that is coming is that it will be exclusive for 64-bit code and will drop all support for even running x86 binaries, not even x86 .Net Framework stuffs...

    (but hopefully it will allow it in a Hyper-V virtual machine...)

    1. Ken Hagan Gold badge

      Re: MS will probably nuke any x86 code too

      I think you are massively underestimating how much 32-bit code there is. It took them about 10-15 years to kill Win16 and it had significant functional limitations compared to Win32. Win32 code has no such limits compared to Win64, unless your problem has datasets bigger than 2GB. Unsurprisingly then, there are still plenty of expensive speciality apps that are sold as 32-bit software. It ain't broke, so why fix it?

      1. yetanotheraoc Silver badge

        Re: MS will probably nuke any x86 code too

        "It ain't broke, so why fix it?"

        I don't think that's the MS motto. More like, "Maybe we broke it, but no problem, the users will let us know (shrug)."

        Anyway, all the speculation here is way off the mark. The only reason MS is doing away with 10 is because it doesn't support their soon-to-be unveiled Lava UI. It shimmers! And every time you click on something you get iridescent colors streaming from the cursor, like those early (non-touch) color laptop monitors when you touched them.

    2. aks

      Re: MS will probably nuke any x86 code too

      Microsoft have previous form.

      16-bit apps ended up being supported in their own sandbox on 32-bit windows.

      The word I heard is that the next Windows will have 32-bit apps running in a sandbox, maybe 64-bit Windows apps in another, Linux in another and the overall Windows management OS will simply become a hypervisor. It may even be Linux based.

      If it wasn't for the fact that Apple would throw *all* their toys out of the pram, various flavours of Apple would be capable of running in sandboxes, as they do currently in a VM on Windows.

      I'm more interested in whether Android apps would be supported. It would certainly be possible for Xbox to merge into this scenario.

      1. ThatOne Silver badge

        Re: MS will probably nuke any x86 code too

        Nah, much too sensible.

        Borderline useful.

        Won't happen.

  16. DrSunshine0104

    I got a free upgrade to W10 from retail W7 but every time I change any major hardware on my computer getting it recognise the hardware change and see my Windows copy as legitimate has been in vane. Only got it to work once, after that I have just embraced the watermark in the bottom right when I am playing any games.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Don't know how true it is, but one tip I heard was to log into the PC using an MS account (hotmail/ etc) once your system was up and running (i.e. no watermark), and basically let it phone home. Doesn't need to be the primary account, so could be added afterwards. i.e. Use a local account normally, then login with the MS account, leave it logged in for a while with an Internet connection, then back to your regular account.

      Then after a hardware change, log back in with the MS account for a short while.

      I did this on an old system (i7 3770k, so what 9 years old now?), where I always used a local account, I then set up a secondary MS account.

      A few years ago, I stripped the PC for parts, replaced by a new Ryzen system.

      I eventually decided to re-use the motherboard (plus RAM and CPU that were still on the board), but everything else was new, SSD, GFX card etc. Fresh install of Win 10 (was making a gaming PC for a friend who couldn't afford their own PC), and set it up with a new local account. Showed as not licenced, inc the watermark, gave it a few days while setting up other items, still watermarked.

      Eventually created a new account, and logged in this time using the same MS account I'd previously used, and within 10 mins, watermark vanished, never to return even after switching back to the local account for daily use!

  17. Omnipresent Bronze badge

    Needn"t worry yourselves

    It's because there will BE NO MORE OS's. Only online machines collecting and distributing your information through the all knowing and seeing Skynet... OOPS, I mean GOOGLE. Microsoft has already told you they are a SERVICE now, not an OS.

  18. Version 1.0 Silver badge

    Windows 10 EOL

    This is good news, finally Windows 10 will be reasonably reliable and will not stall for half an hour every few weeks while "updates" are installed that cause apps to break and add "features" like requiring that when the administrator logs in, the machine "upgrades" for another 30-40 minutes. Windows 10 might finally be actually usable?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @Version 1.0 - Re: Windows 10 EOL

      Don't open your eyes, keep dreaming!

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Windows 10 EOL

      You're writing this in 2016 right?

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Windows 10 EOL

      Sooo...if Win10 becomes the new old thing that people remember fondly, how horrible must the next full version of Windows be?

      Just sayin...

      When XP came out, people were like "Aww, I miss Win2k and Win98" (Nobody missed WinME)

      When Vista came out, people were like "Aww, I miss XP"

      When Win7 came out, people were like "Aww, I still miss XP, but I can live with this since it isn't Vista"

      When Win8 came out, people were like "Aww, I remember when Windows had a Start menu. I'll stick with 7"

      When Win10 came out, people were like "Aww, I miss Win7 and having a computer that wasn't spying on me".

      So, good God, think how bad Win11/365 will be.

      Personally, I still miss Win2k's interface. Yeah, I like that old Chicago look...

      1. Big_Boomer Silver badge

        Re: Windows 10 EOL

        3.11 for Workgroups was good, for it's time.

        95 was good.

        NT 3.51 was flaky but luckily wasn't around for long.

        NT 4 was OK.

        98 was good.

        ME was facking awful.

        Server 2000 was good.

        Server 2003 was good.

        XP was excellent.

        Vista was facking awful.

        Server 2008 was good.

        7 was excellent.

        Server 2012 was facking awful.

        8 was facking awful

        8.1 was facking awful.

        10 is good apart from the constant updates breaking stuff.

        Server 2016 is OK.

        Server 2019 is OK.

        God I'm old! <LOL>

        I have only ever "missed" WinXP & Win7, mostly since their successors (Vista & 8) were so facking awful but also because they just let you get on with your job and didn't need constant handholding/maintenance. Looking at that list, most of the Windows releases have been OK or better. I guess we just have to hope that Win11 is at least an OK.

  19. Confuciousmobil

    Isn’t that the same date….

    That the UK will come out of covid restrictions?

  20. Roj Blake Silver badge

    Windows 365

    Welcome to your new Windows monthly subscription, suckers.

  21. Mr Larrington

    Five years, that’s all we've got

    I wonder whether I'll have managed to install 20H2 on the big bugger upstairs by then*. “Page fault in non-paged area”.

    * unless I bite the bullet and take the “nuke from orbit” approach.

  22. Toni the terrible Bronze badge

    It would help if all PC box suppliers did so using a dual boot setup for the uninitiated, this would help wean the 'average user' from Win.

  23. trevorde Silver badge

    Looking forward to 2025

    2025 will definitely be the year of the Linux desktop!

  24. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. Andy Non Silver badge

      If it's only used for web browsing, it sounds ideal for an upgrade to Linux Mint and the browser of your choice.

  25. Chronos

    "The last version of Windows"

    It can only be the last version of Windows when the next one releases. Don't you know nuffink? :-)

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