back to article Time for an upgrade: Dev of the last modern browser for PowerPC Macs calls it a day

It's a bad week for anyone still using a PowerPC-based Mac. The developer of TenFourFox, the last real modern browser for the platform, has thrown in the towel. Launched in 2010 in response to Mozilla's decision to suspend development of the PowerPC version of Firefox, TenFourFox attempted to provide a degree of continuity for …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Up

    Thank-you

    "For better or for worse, web browsers' primary role is no longer to view documents; it is to view applications that, by sheer coincidence, sometimes resemble documents."

    Amen to that.

    Thanks for your efforts and hopefully you'll find a new project when you've had a chance to recharge.

    1. Mage Silver badge
      Pirate

      Re: Thank-you

      So sad that the Internet in terms of Web functionality is too complicated, too insecure, too lacking in privacy and we are almost down to two products, both with increasingly poorer GUIs and becoming more difficult to secure.

  2. chivo243 Silver badge

    My PPCs

    I only use them for backup repositories and file service. Gotta love 10.5.8!

  3. Dabooka

    I just gave my venerable old G4 away

    To be fair it went back 'home' to my mate who gifted it to me many moons ago.

    I sourced the retail pack of OSX 10 and intended to max it out for ram and HDD too but never got around to it, whereas I know he will. Used to be a glorified juke box in my shed and ran Firefox. Dread to think how out of date that was.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "For better or for worse, web browsers' primary role is no longer to view documents; it is to view applications that, by sheer coincidence, sometimes resemble documents."

    I do agree with this. Though I think there is a growing niche in the market for something sane that can view actual documents.

    1. vtcodger Silver badge

      Documents?

      What are these "document" things you speak of? I vaguely think I might have encountered one or two many years ago. But I really can't remember the details. Are there tools that can be used to convert them to a modern presentation with popups, mouseovers, unrequested videos and ads?

  5. Uncle Slacky Silver badge
    Linux

    There's always Linux...

    There are still a few Linux distros for PowerPC, like MintPPC and Void:

    http://mintppc.nl/

    https://voidlinux-ppc.org/

    and of course Debian:

    https://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/

    1. karlkarl Silver badge

      Re: There's always Linux...

      Have you tried these? Does i.e X11, Mesa work? In particular acceleration (after all, modern browsers are very dependent on a GPU to display all their adverts).

      As far as I know, MacPPC doesn't support LLVMpipe either so software rendering is extremely slow, or simply fails.

      I ask because even though FreeBSD and OpenBSD both support MacPPC, I could never quite get a usable browsing experience from them.

      (Also, long term, I am sure Linux's Wayland migration will cause issue for less maintained / older platforms).

      1. Uncle Slacky Silver badge

        Re: There's always Linux...

        I ran the earlier incarnation of MintPPC (based on Debian) on my Blueberry iMac. I needed the right xorg.conf file installed before running X, however the current version of MintPPC appears to do it automatically (booting to an LXDE desktop):

        https://www.u58733p55594.web0093.zxcs-klant.nl/installation-instructions/

        I'm not sure about Mesa or acceleration, though.

      2. whitepines
        Boffin

        Re: There's always Linux...

        Void is targeted more at modern Power boxes, like the Raptor stuff. I know for a fact the Debian ppc64el variant works fine with 3D acceleration and various browsers, since I use a Blackbird as a daily driver with Debian on it.

        How much of the old 32-bit (or 64-bit big endian) old Mac ports will keep working, and for how long, is an open question at this point. Roughly speaking it's like trying to keep support for early Pentium 4 systems, but with more problems due to the backwards* endianness on the old Power devices.

        * Yes, yes, I know big endian is the "proper" way of doing things from a human perspective. Intel won out with little endian, and we're now at the point where even new GPUs assume the hardware they're attached to is little endian.

  6. Binraider Silver badge

    I rescued a powermac G5 quad maybe 3 years ago, a wonderful machine to use despite the software and power draw issues. The PSU did eventually give up. Transplanting in a modern supply is about the only way to keep it going now - replacing from grey spares is a losing battle. Probably gonna donate it to RMC as I haven't the space or tools for the job.

    1. Ogi
      Pint

      I ended up gutting my G5 and putting an ATX motherboard in it (it had a motherboard failure). Still using it all these years as my main desktop PC, albeit with a 6 core AMD and 8GB of RAM now.

      I do still have a G4 mac mini running Tiger that I like to use (and browse the web on using this very same aforementioned browser) from time to time. It is a shame the developer is ending the browser, but I totally understand, and was surprised anyone was still maintaining anything for the old Mac.

      Oh well, a great thanks (and many pints) to the dev for all his dedication so far. I will keep using it until such time as it no longer renders anything properly, and then I will probably install Linux on it.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Thanks to Cameron, I can browse with my G5 running 10.5.8

    Kudos and much apprecation to Cameron. He not only maintained it but also did yeoman's work of email support. Honestly, I had no idea that he was the sole developer doing it in his spare time.

    (I will soon move on to my newly acquired M1 Mini, keeping the G5 as a file server.)

    1. baynesa

      Re: Thanks to Cameron, I can browse with my G5 running 10.5.8

      This very much comes to mind. https://xkcd.com/2347/

      I fear that it is truer than we might hope.

      1. Gene Cash Silver badge

        Re: Thanks to Cameron, I can browse with my G5 running 10.5.8

        Remember when Arthur David Olson was deciding to retire, and it turned out he was the sole bloke maintaining the TZ database, and IANA shit its pants and had to figure out how to deal with it?

        That's very much this XKCD comic!

  8. Tron Silver badge

    Maybe another layer is required.

    It may be easier to use a tiny PC with an up to date browser, take what it would spit out to a screen and turn it into a jpeg with 'hot zones' for links and input fields.

    The tiny PC would do all the work, but it would look like you were surfing on your Power PC/286/Mac Classic/ZX Spectrum.

    Now that would be fun.

    I wish folk supported those who write code like this more. Crowd-funding should enable anything with a thousand+ users to bring in a decent sum.

    1. Peter2 Silver badge

      Re: Maybe another layer is required.

      I wish folk supported those who write code like this more. Crowd-funding should enable anything with a thousand+ users to bring in a decent sum.

      Quite. If everybody donated a quid a month then i'm fairly sure that with a thousand users for a grand a month he'd have been willing to chip in the time to keep doing the updates. For nothing? Eventually it ceases happening.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Maybe another layer is required.

      You're in luck: https://github.com/tenox7/wrp

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "For better or for worse, web browsers' primary role is no longer to view documents; it is to view applications that, by sheer coincidence, sometimes resemble documents."

    Helpful tip: it's for worse.

  10. GraXXoR

    G4 Lampshade user

    I still have a G4 lampshade running the welcoming screen in the lobby of my business. It’s been running for over a decade. Swapped the HDD for a SSD many moons ago and just dust it out once every couple of years. Replaced the fan for something quieter at the same time, too.

    The welcoming screen is a low calorie, mostly static web page hosted on our server that lists the week’s activities and takes simple bookings from the customers. Ten four fox in full screen mode has been the browser of choice ever since LeopardWebKit project died.

    For that purpose, the performance is fine and I’ve never seen reason to change from the unique design of the G4 to anything modern.

    Thanks for being such a stalwart! Your services were likely underappreciated by the majority of users (me included) but have undoubtedly helped thousands of paupers / retro enthusiasts throughout the world.

  11. mihares
    Pint

    So many thanks

    When the PowerBooks G4 came out I was too little and no amount of small kid pocket money would have bought me one —yet they looked and went like starships (real ones, not the fireworks relatives that SpaceX makes these days).

    This was sad then and actually still is: it would have started me off on Unix much earlier and, therefore, I’d probably be a better computer person now.

    Anyway, with my first job’s money I decided to go back in time and got myself, well, a few PBs. One arrived from California and, along the way, something like a washing machine must have fallen onto it —which was actually not so bad, because it gave me the opportunity of going inside the thing to replace all broken bits: real depth of engineering, also compared with modern Macs.

    The thing is: those machines are still very good computers for everything you’d like to do. Wrote my thesis and compiled the LaTeX on one. Run also a particle physics simulation on it and, although not on par with a fat Ryzen, still could handle.

    The only nonfunctional bit was the Internet browsing, until I came across TenFourFox, which re-made it possible. Yes, the poor CPU would run at egg-cooking temperatures and streaming videos was asking it a bit much, but functional.

    It’s such a shame that sites (not ElReg, which works also under Lynx!) are now bad, inefficient applications that you have to JIT-compile and that all this is too much for a one-man-dev-team.

    I for one think he did an absolutely awesome job, and deserves a very large supply of these —>

  12. Blackjack Silver badge

    I am amazed these older macs still work when even the most sturdy Compaq machine running Windows 95 is deader that an Atari in a termite colony. Then again the whole "bios runs on the hard disk" means that when the hard disk died in one of those, so did the bios.

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