Crafty: Cricut caught out by user revolt, but will cloud stop play?

It takes a lot to stir the peaceable men and women of Makerhood into angry revolt, but 2D robo-snippers Cricut did it last week. Cricut makes desktop thingies that can print, cut and score a variety of flexible materials, which produce 2D templates you then glue, sew or otherwise fashion into 3D things like baseball caps for …

[picturethis]

Have cricut, but what to do...

I have a cricut, but it's been packed away since my mother passed about 1-1/2 years ago. It's an older model, based on the fact that it uses the cartidges, of which there are about 30 of them with the printer. She used it a lot and I know it worked without being attached to any computer and not accessing the internet. I know this because I maintained her laptop (and it was/is running Linux Mint the entire time).

I don't know what it's worth (if anything).. I should probably let it go so someone can get some (possible) use out of it.

Re: Cricut's business model. Most of my Mom's friends that did the whole "maker" scene did it to 1) save money and 2) be creative. 100% of them were also on social security (fixed) income. I don't know if that thinking would allow a very lucrative business. Profitable? yes. Lucratively (Obscenely) profitable - maybe not, but what do I know? I've not made millions in the investment scene. Of course if the central banks keep printing 240 thousand million USD per month, inflation will demand that everyone will be millionaires because a loaf of bread will cost $5000. Those who ignore history, are doomed to repeat it..

[goldcd]

Problem is that your hardware is bound to their software

and this fact and this attempted monetization, should now be featured in every Cricut review.

I've idly pondered buying one and now I'm less likely to buy.

I can understand their need to generate revenue for on-going software development and server costs - but they really shouldn't have got themselves into this position.

I'm familiar with 3D printing where the printer is just an appliance and the user has a choice of modelling tool and slicer. Some are Open Source/Free - and others you pay for. Some (such as the very popular Fusion 360) now provide a free trial with limitations until you pay. Some such as Simplify3D have always been pay for perpetual license. Reason this ecosystem can exist is that the pipeline from idea to print are handled with interchangeable file formats. As a user when you hand over money, you know you're getting something back. Nothing is ever taken away from you (or at least you can understand it when Autodesk gives you a nudge into giving them some money).

If Cricut want to make hardware, they just need to open their API and a lovely ecosystem will emerge (and seem to be a few 'cutting' packages out there that support other brands). If Cricut want to make software, then they can do that - and they just need to make it better than the competition.

[Woodnag]

API and ecosystem?

Customers are not actually buying a machine. They are leasing the machine after placing a £350 non-refundable deposit. When the cloud service dies, the lease essentially ends, and the machine is useless.

[42656e4d203239]

Re: API and ecosystem?

>>Customers are not actually buying a machine.

I bet none of them signed a lease agreement... in fact I suspect many of them wouldn't have the financial standing to be able to sign a lease agreement.

The real problem is the retrospective nature of the "all your cutings are belong to us" statement.

If Circuit had said "From now on new customers will be leasing the machine for £100 per year with a £350 non refundable deposit" that would have been fair and dandy - OK not many, if any, new customers would have flocked to their door but meh.

IMHO imposing that fee on people who, in good faith, ostensibly bought a machine to do a job is just not cricket (governmental organisations aside - they do that sort of thing for a past time) and Circuit deserve a pasting for that.

[Woodnag]

good faith

Exactly...

[HereIAmJH]

Re: API and ecosystem?

I didn't sign a lease agreement, and I haven't signed up for any service. Granted, my machine is still in the box, but none of the pre-purchase literature said a word about needing to pay for a service to use the machine.

Consider this, you buy a new printer. On top of the supplies, the manufacturer now wants you to pay them a fee to use their cloud service to print anything. Would you buy that printer?

There is a lot of comparison to 3d printing, but the device I have is a simple 2d device not unlike a plotter that scores the media. The most common use is vinyl decals, but they are also used to cut gaskets that are hard to find. (that is why I bought it)

If I'm going to have to pay for a cloud account, I'll look at the competition. Basically they made a bad business decision trying save money by using cloud instead of a locally installed app. Now they need to find a way to pay the hosting fees.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: Problem is that your hardware is bound to their software

A slightly different option - they can make one free release of S/W to be run locally reproducing the existing feature set. They can then operate a subscription model for releases to add extra features or provide any extra services. That should please customers who cease to be dependent on Cricut for anything further. Assuming they can make a sufficiently attractive offer for subscriptions they may make more money that way but in any case they'll have freed themselves from the ongoing cloud costs.

In the meantime their customers may have learned a useful lesson: if what you paid for upfront depends on a "free" cloud service to keep running then either its a badly thought out business model or a scam and, from the customers' point of view the outcome will be the same.

[MJI]

Silhouette Cameo

Paid around 350 for it, already totalled one blade on plastic card.

Offers a print and cut option but need a A3 printer. But cutting is good.

However while experimenting went through sheet after sheet getting the cutting correct.

Found what it won't and will cut.

clear card, too hard, but got some 5 thou to trial.

white plastic card 10 thou straight through with 4 passes. 20 thou a good score.

Not just the craft crowd or the maker crowd but modellers as well.

Currently laminating 9 carriages of sides together 4 of 20 thou and a 10 thou outside with frames on, looks good.

So just remember that Silhouette software installs on your PC. Only pay thing is for access to other libraries or a super duper design option but it can import DXF anyway.

[oiseau]

Us? Joking, right?

... us, the users who are tempted into buying cloud-powered hardware.

Us?

To paraphrase Tonto : "What you mean ... 'we', Rupert?"

I would never (ever) spend a dime on cloud-powered hardware.

Hell should freeze over first.

Twice.

It is a sure-fire way to, sooner than later, get royally screwed.

O.

[steamnut]

Lost customers forever?

The Cricut hardware is nowhere near worth £350 so they already made a bundle out of you.

I bought a used Cricut Mini for £10 last year. I only wanted it for the parts to make my own cutter using a Raspberry Pi. But, I then discovered why it was so cheap. It turns out Cricut have done the dirty on their users before.

The Cricut Mini used cloudy software from the start; it was called the Cricut Craft Room. There was a small collection of free designs, then you had to buy others from them. There was no way of loading your own designs in, and Cricut threatened legal action against anyone who tried to reverse engineer their system.

Then, in July 2018, they closed down the Craft Room and turned a lot of Cricut Minis into landfill or hackerspace objects.

This latest action, although retracted for now, will have damaged the brand permanently. Crafters are very active on social media and forums and also have long memories.....

[MJI]

Re: Lost customers forever?

Why do you think the Cameo 4 is such a big seller?

Despite the Cricut push.

Here are some samples of what people are doing

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/79025-a-guide-to-using-the-silhouette-cameo-cutter/

[rg287]

Cricut is doing well out of it. So well, it decided it was time for an IPO. Which meant sprucing up the revenue stream - and what better way than to add a subscription model to use that cloud software?

I found myself absolutely astonished that someone suggested this to "spruce up the balance sheet", and it didn't occur to anybody that whilst it might achieve that, it was far more likely to incur massive reputational damage and a class-action lawsuit when they effectively bricked the hardware of people who hadn't ponyed up.

And they’re useless without the software, which Cricut maintains in the cloud.

This was true, and is now only partly true. In January they dropped the browser-based Design Space application in favour of installable software with an offline mode on the basis that "Unfortunately, browsers no longer support the new features and experiences that we are developing for the future." Designs and assets are still stored online (for sync, etc) and there's the backend for the Premium service where people can access third party designs and shapes but they're offloading the heavy-lifting back to user's devices, presumably to slash their cloudy compute costs and roll back to just providing a bit of storage - eminently sensible (unless you were using Linux or a Chromebook, which they don't have apps for).

The idea that your local software would stop printing after a handful of prints per month is asinine and breaks any sort of cost relationship with Cricut's ongoing costs. It makes no difference to Cricut whether you print one or a thousand projects per month. There's a relationship to storage, but not to print volume.

[Strahd Ivarius]

If all the files are stored on a cloudy infrastructure, and downloaded each time you need to print something locally, then there is an associated cost for the publisher if they go over their allowance.

[rg287]

Indeed, but a small fraction of the cost compared with hosting a web app and the associated compute costs. But the proposal was that the new-look application limited you to 20 prints/month regardless of whether you actually uploaded designs to the cloud or just used them locally. Crippling all-local functionality without a subscription is legally dubious and catastrophic in terms of reputation.

[Doctor Syntax]

"it didn't occur to anybody that whilst it might achieve that, it was far more likely to incur massive reputational damage"

Beancounters are beancounters. If it ain't beans it don't count.

[TeeCee]

So....

One off money goes in, serving those customers costs per month. As long as mug punters keep chucking money in faster than the liabilities chew through it, everything keeps going.

Can anyone say "Ponzi scheme"? No? Ah, well, that's all right then.

[Anonymous Coward]

Garmin

When I bought a Garmin GPS it came with some software for the computer. But now they've stopped supporting Training Center and want users to use the cloud service Garmin Connect. Even though their servers have been hit with ransom ware and they paid out $10million. They could start a subscription at any moment if the profit from monetizing heath data isn't enough.

[Zippy´s Sausage Factory]

What I’d like to see... would be a little part of each company's website where the business model is explained.

So, no doubt, would their investors. The problem is, I think, that most "tech start-up wannabe unicorns" these days follow the underpants gnomes business plan:

1. Do something that you can do manually, but add "cloud" into the description somewhere

2. ?

3. Profit

[DougMac]

Nothing new for Cricut here

Cricut reached their position in this niche market by changing the game plan every couple of years, aggressive licensing and patent litigation, and in general screwing over all their own customers over and over again.

Since their target audience just wants to get the thing done, rather than research the history of the horrible company, they keep going, suppressing any competition that comes up.

This is just same-old same-old as what they've always done.

[cd]

Jawbone

I remember buying one of their BT extra headsets and finding out that I could only change settings by logging into the company website. There were two things I wanted to change occasionally, and every time I wanted to change them I had to log in and make a new password and so forth just to toggle those.

Then they stopped supporting any browser I had, riding on the Google planned-obsolescence and keeping ahead of regs horse.

I didn't buy another Jawbone anything, despite it working well otherwise, and they're no longer here so perhaps other felt the same.

[J. Cook]

And they’re useless without the software, which Cricut maintains in the cloud. It’s a popular approach in 3D printing because it works well; users don’t have to worry about the spec of their local computers and Cricut can add and debug new features without pushing out regular huge updates

Yeah... Let's ask PrintrBot how well that worked for them.

Building an object is not the same as sending the G-code (or whatever the printer's using) over a local network connection or a USB serial connected device.

The few designs I've built are done up in TinkerCAD, which I've not run into any restrictions yet- But then, my designs are very basic, and not very pretty. I also lean pretty heavily on more talented people who have uploaded stuff to Thingiverse, which so far hasn't asked for pay services out of this free account holder.

(And I will cheerfully pay for designs if they are clever, solid, and don't require too much fiddling with my printer's settings to get a usable object out of it- I just don't see the need for uploading an STL file to a cloud service to have it sliced, then spoon fed back down over the same connection to the printer or controller connected to the printer...)

As far as me buying a Cricut? nope, I'll go for one of their competitors, or a low-end commercial unit if I want to go that route.

[MJI]

The railway modellers basically rejected Cricut, not easy to do your own designs either.

See that RMWEB link I showed on another posting.

[DS999]

The "cloud app" model is broken

When an app/service is new and the developer is raking money from every purchase he's happy - and the free cloud means more sales since people look at it as only paying $X for lifetime usage. The problem is, sales will inevitably slow down unless the market is growing and/or market share is being taken from the competition. When that happens suddenly the developer is making regular updates to the cloud piece, paying for a cloud provider, etc. with less and less income coming in. So he realizes "I should have charged a monthly/yearly fee up front, it would have been easier to raise that fee later than to go from $0 to a fee now".

Or like in this case, the beancounters come in and see an unexploited revenue stream...

[Blane Bramble]

Two thoughts:

1. If the cloud software is too expensive to run, create installable software.

2. They presumably sell consumables (blades, media, etc). So there is no reason they shouldn't have a regular income to pay for the cloud service.

Regarding point 2, that makes them either greedy or incompetent.

[Summer]

Why not put a feature in the software - export & save, so customers can store their own designs.

It is difficult if you need a certain design you have created & cannot access it unless you use there software. Other companies have this feature: Inkscape, AI, silhouette studio.

The hours that go into some designs is phenomenal. Can you imagine if there cloud bubble burst, millions of people world wide would be, let's say less than pleased. Let us store our own creations.