The laptop you bought in 2020 may stop you buying a car in 2021: Chips are going short Nissan and Honda have both said semiconductor shortages will impact their sales this year. The Japanese automakers each announced the financial results of the third quarter of their fiscal 2020 – the three months to the end of December – yesterday, and each felt the need to revise guidance to investors. Nissan warned [PDF] …
I observe that my 1995 Fiat contains no more than three processors, not counting the radio, and yet seems in no way functionally deficient on the road. Perhaps the makers desire that every component should complain to every other component if it thought it might not be the manufacturer approved part has something to do with this?
Apropos of nothing: I have been watching people trying to get 1970s US cars running on Youtube recently. Youtube has decided now that I am a Trump supporter, and recommends lots of party videos. Is there a connection, I wonder?
It's fairly certain that your 1995 Fiat has worse emissions and will handle substantially worse if pushed to the limit of its stability.
The chippery, as you well know, is not there for you everyday ride comfort, it's there for emissions and for systems that intervene when the proverbial stinker is about to hit the fan.
"It's fairly certain that your 1995 Fiat has worse emissions and will handle substantially worse if pushed to the limit of its stability."
Don't mock the man just because he drives a Fiat! If he likes it, it's good enough for me. (But then I'm probably the wrong person to talk to ... I have purchased, driven, sworn at, worked on, sworn at, restored, driven, sworn at, worked on some more, driven, sworn at while driving, and ultimately sold no fewer than 14 '50s and '60s Alphas ... But I can stop any time. Really. After this next one ... )
The chippery is there as a result of many, many levels of feel-good legislation to keep the greenaholics quiet. There are now so many layers of crap that perfectly good engines struggle to produce power. For example, your average run of the mill Honda four cylinder produces around 160 HP. If you nuke the factory chips, you can extract 600+ reliable horsepower out of the very same motor ... and still get very good fuel economy if you keep your boot out of it.
Old Alfas? Who needs chips when every car comes with a unique personality and moods!
In the past I enjoyed a more sensible choice, two early Porsche 911s - and now have a Peugeot 205 GTi which is a whole lot more temperamental but I think not as bad as an Alfa!
That said, at the Pursche club events at Mason's Mill we were often joined by a chap nicknamed the "flying doctor" who brought a highly modified GTV 3.0 which was an absolute delight to watch - and almost always beat the brand-new Porsches.
@Andre
some thoughts
1. emissions are managed by the ECU, one chip there. However VW have shown that the emission control CPUs can be used to enable a polluting vehicle to pass stringent tests - so presence of the chips is no guarantee of better emissions.
2. driving on the handling limit is dangerous, chips or no chips. And probably requires highly illegal speeds.
3. ABS is a life-saver
All other CPUs in a car are - IMO - for gimmicks like LED dashboards, animated indicators, etc.
Happy to get some more counterexamples of useful in-car systems...
Re: "2. driving on the handling limit is dangerous, chips or no chips. And probably requires highly illegal speeds."
Traction control saved my ass when going into a curve my car started aquaplaning all the while doing under 40mph... just fell the rear end going away sideways then a quick succession of wheel blocking and regaining control, all that in a second or two
Personally I find the following chip-based technology useful in my BMW 435d:
1. Heads up display
2. Sat Nav
3. Traction control
4. Stability control
5. Cruise control
6. Electric memory seats
7. Keyless start
8. Climate control
9. Tyre pressure monitor
10. Intelligent 4WD
That's without the more engine-based chippery benefits whcih help with economical driving. (E.g. computer based fuel injection, computer-driven gear selection based on driving mode and GPS location including upcoming road gradient, digital range display, coasting whilst driving with an automatic gearbox).
There's a lot of junk in modern cars, including my own (why would I want to display the news on the iDrive?), but there's also a lot of advanced features which may not make the car itself "better" in terms of getting from A to B, but it makes it safer, quicker, and far more comfortable and efficent compared to older vehicles.
Personally I find the following chip-based technology useful in my BMW 435d:
1. Heads up display
2. Sat Nav
3. Traction control
4. Stability control
5. Cruise control
6. Electric memory seats
7. Keyless start
8. Climate control
9. Tyre pressure monitor
10. Intelligent 4WD
Useful? Yes (apart from 7). Necessary, not by a long way. Sure I like my gadgets, but so many modern cars (say anything beyond mid noughties) are increasingly forgetting basic ergonomics especially in an environment where you really shouldn't need to look at the controls.
Not to mention how everything has to be "coded" to the car. I mean changing a battery on newer models requires a trip to dealer or laptop with ISTA or something. Changing bulbs used to be something you could do in 30 seconds at roadside, now you need to pull out headlight assemblies and/or disassemble part of the car to change a consumable.
I prefer "recycling" old(er) cars and am (possibly mistaken as I haven't done the maths) of the opinion that keeping the already manufactured older car going is going to be lesser impact on environment than it is to build a brand new car (especially now that they're likely start to need to be electric or at least hybrid) given i don't do silly amount of miles in a year either.
My 20 off year old car has the following:-
1. Heads up display
I retrofitted this to my old car with a cheap OBD2 device.
2. Sat Nav
Again, retrofitted via a 2DIN head unit.
3. Traction control
Already have this as standard despite my car being designed in the 90's.
4. Stability control
Is one thing i don't have.
5. Cruise control
Already have this as standard despite my car being designed in the 90's.
6. Electric memory seats
Already have this as standard despite my car being designed in the 90's.
7. Keyless start
I neither have this, or the problem of my car being stolen without the keycard.
8. Climate control
Already have this as standard despite my car being designed in the 90's.
9. Tyre pressure monitor
I have the ability to do this via adding fancy wireless caps to my tyres and connecting to my head unit, but i'm perfectly happy with doing it ye old fashioned way as this appears to be technology for technologies sake; if you can't tell one of your tyres is flat then you probably shouldn't actually be driving. :/
10. Intelligent 4WD
I only have 2 wheel drive despite living in the country. Chelsea tractors don't really need 4WD; and from the number of them bemused locals pass broken down in the weather at the moment they aren't suitable for driving in adverse weather conditions. (this might just be the drivers)
Computer fuel injection: I have this.
Digital range display: I have this.
Gear selection based on driving mode: I have this. It also automatically changes up gears when I go up hills, and applies engine breaking when going down hills. (which activates automatically if I have my foot on the brake for more than 3 seconds without applying the accelerator; it doesn't need GPS!)
So... the only worthwhile safety feature would be Stablity control, which is provided for in older vehicles by not driving like a knob.
"only have 2 wheel drive despite living in the country. Chelsea tractors don't really need 4WD; and from the number of them bemused locals pass broken down in the weather at the moment they aren't suitable for driving in adverse weather conditions."
Before it rusted so much the doors fell off, my pug106 used to fairly regtularly chug up/down steep hills in snow (chains) cruising past many well and truely beached 4WDs(*). The number of dirty looks from Chelsea Tractor drivers was a thing of joy
(*) Occasionally I see one whose driver decided the roof or sides had better traction than the tires. More frequently they'd still be sittng there going nowhere whilst fruitlessly spinning all four wheels
My car has 4WD and I once had a choice what to do, bad mud and tractor ruts near a ford, either reverse back and take a different route, or inch forwards and see what happens.
Sunk down a little bit but was plenty of grip, did not struggle at all.
Ford was up to the wheels, a little deep so changed rear diff oil the next weekend (fine), (wading limit is rear diff breather).
Bit muddy on way out but no problem at all.
You will be surprised at what a 4WD car can do. Just need to drive properly and have decent tyres.
My early/mid 2000s car has the following chip homes.
Engine ECU Diesel with EUI.
Gearbox Standard TC slushbox
ABS, Traction control, and self levelling
All the body stuff like windows and heated things, oh and central locking.
The radio with built in satnav
Anti rollbar control
Oh headlamp bulbs 5 minutes simply because my hand is not small enough to fit.
No 4WD ECU either no need, a level offers me high/low & locked/unlocked
All the ECUs are nicely shielded boxes with robust components. I think the era from first proper sequential EFI up to CANBUS is the high spot of car electronics. And the first car electronics I owned were more like a few transistors in an ignition module
It's fairly certain that your 1995 Fiat has worse emissions and will handle substantially worse if pushed to the limit of its stability.
I drive a car made in the very early 2000's, and i'd like to disagree. The 1995 Fiat (or my car) will admittedly output worse figures in a test, especially if compared to any German car in a test centre. This owes little to the advancement in engine technology and much to the advancement in detecting a test is taking place and switching to a different set of engine behaviour. (refer to the diesilgate scandal)
However, actual emissions emitted whilst driving normally? My "dirty" old diesil puts out under a third of the actual measured emissions of a "clean" EURO6 car so personally i'm not inclined to accept much in the way of criticism as to emissions.
It's also just as comfortable as a modern car, and the ABS, airbags etc works just as well in it as it does in a modern car.
@Neil_Barnes it's an interesting example, because since 1995 I've got through 12 cars. Whilst 7 of them are still running for others, 4 have gone to the great carbon sink in the sky and while my current chipped-up Honda sips frugally from it's chosen energy source, maybe your carbon footprint is actually lower. I think Tim Harford should investigate.
Purchase a Hondata ECU (or similar) and get thee to a tuner. Tell said tuner you want better than factory HP and torque when you give it welly, but better economy when putting around town and cruising on the freeway. The results will surprise you ... Note that you can retain the factory computer for a yearly check if the local motor vehicle system insists on it. Simply unplug the Hondata and plug the factory unit back in, and you're back to where you started.
Yes, recycling cars is easier on the Earth than purchasing a new one every couple years.
Enjoy it while you can. All this is coming to an end as the switch from internal combustion engines proceeds. And I suspect all that remapping will eventually attract attention from politicians. I'm sure people will attempt to hack their EVs if they haven't already, but time has been called on oil-based automobiles. And you're going to hate the safety enhancements! Speed limiters, road departure correction, no more leaving the headlights off as they're automatic...I love it. Think of it as the post-macho machina era...yes, even the Italians will switch.
" I'm sure people will attempt to hack their EVs if they haven't already, "
Once people realise that "ludicrous mode" destroys driveshaft splines, pelple stop playing with it. The repairs are expensive
Electric motors can trivially output 5 times their continuous rating for short periods, but not every part of the drivetrain is rated for that kind of torque wihtout bending
I was waiting for that one... but in the 25 years I've owned that car, it has 'failed to proceed' three times: once a dirty contact on a spark amplifier, once a broken cambelt[0] (a week before it was booked in to change it <grrr>) and once a dead bottom end, the direct result of the broken cambelt but sadly not known about and thereby fixed at the same time.
And as pointed out above, it still manages to exceed the emission requirements *for its age* though I admit that current levels are lower, and still manages respectable fuel economy.
To be honest, I don't think there is any such thing as a 'bad car' these days, at least in Europe and Japanese builds/imports. There are certainly lemons out there, but I suspect that electrical gremlins figure highly in their failure modes. At least, those are the reports I get from my contacts in the motor trade (where they've largely given up diagnosis beyond 'plug the computer in').
[0] Little known fact: the most dangerous speed for a cambelt is at tickover: from there it can accelerate to eight or ten times its speed in a second or two, which it certainly can't do if it's already doing 5,000rpm.
"To be honest, I don't think there is any such thing as a 'bad car' these days, at least in Europe and Japanese builds/imports. "
Yup, I've said it manmy times - the most mediocre current car is more reliable and will last longer than even best Japan could put out in the 1970s - and a HUGE part of that is down to electronic replacing fiddly mechanical bits that needed constant adjustments
Who carries a point contact file or knows how to adjust a distributor vacuum advance these days?
"the most mediocre current car is more reliable and will last longer than even best Japan could put out in the 1970s"
My '72 Datsun 240Z (Nissan S30, Fairlady Z) has over 400K miles on it, with no more than routine maintenance. She still runs and drives just fine. Likewise, I've been racing her sister, a '72 510, for a long time now without anything but bodywork falling off.
On the otherhand, my Dad has had to junk four medium to high end Japanese sedans in the last dozen years because they fell apart to the point of being not worth repairing according to his insurance company. I gave him a newly restored '65 Mustang Fastback for his 85th birthday and told him to drive the shit out of it.
"Who carries a point contact file or knows how to adjust a distributor vacuum advance these days?"
My dad and I. We replace clutches, shim gears and adjust valves, too :-)
Seriously, it's not exactly rocket science. Having upwards of a dozen computers in one car that do everything and anything, probably up to and including letting you know when it's time to wipe your ass/arse? That is WAY past the ridiculous for a simple transportation device. My way can be repaired by the side of the road with nothing more than a nail file, some chewing gum, bailing wire and a length of tubing. I'm home while you are still waiting on a tow truck.
As part of their Brexit Bonanza and ability to be more agile and not be restricted by the slow wheels of EU bureaucracy or regulations, Batman and RobinBoris and Gove will wear their union jack underpants over tights and don union jack capes and head up to a site next to the Nissan car plant in Sunderland, to open a Nightingale HospitalTuring Factory making Chips, built by mobilising the Army in only a matter of days. The little matter that the factory will produce Potato Chips and not Computer Chips for use by the motor industry in particular is of no consequence to the newspaper headlines and photo opportunities for the levelling up agenda
No, fries mean fries, chips means extra thick cut french fries and/or wedges, potato chips means chips, and crisps means chips.
Wotsits means cheese puffs, but I'm afraid America as a nation has yet to acquire the level of sophistication necessary to enjoy Monster Munch and Space Raiders.
All clear now?
And Marmite Crisps!
To our friends on the other side of the Pond, PBJ is the height of Luxury.
Too bad I'm allergic to Peanuts otherwise I could say how good/bad it is. ATM, I think it is an awful concept especially with all that High Fructose Corn Syrup that they just love putting into every bit of food to save a few cents.
Surely chips in modern cars are largely there so that "added value" (as described to the customer) can be implemented in the factory (sometimes even in the field) at little or no extra cost? Extra features = extra revenue. Extra features at no extra cost = extra profit ?
Doing things in firmware also means new models and new features can ship (and the revenue can be booked) before they are actually fit for purpose and functioning properly, with the promise that a firmware update at a franchised dealer will make everything right, and the ongoing subscription will only require a nominal fee. Right?
Do these modern in-car chips still need "industrial" packaging and thermal characteristics like they used to when Intel made and sold 8051s and such, 'cos if they do, the suggestion that they're in short supply because of the demand for consumer and IT focused chips sounds more than a little implausible. Nothing new there, of course.
Added in software.
Cruise control, if a car is throttle by wire or electrically controlled Diesel, cruise will be software only.
Previous car, to add cruise I added a switch and a friend enabled cruise in the eletronics. Servo motor throttle bodies on that one.
Current, runs on tractor juice, was simple as cut hole in side of steering wheel base, fit switch, use.
I mean, I'd guess they're using relatively low-speed chips from a trailing-edge-but-reliable production line.
E.g. low-clocked ARM chips, or even some modern incarnation of a z80.
How much overlap do these kind of "industrial" chips have with the tech which is being stuffed into laptops?
Same raw-raw material but not the same fabs.
Using up 300mm wafers on TSMC's 7nm fab to make iPhones and AMD super-ninja-turbo-charger-bronco CPUs isn't causing shortages for 8051s made on 6inch wafers and 40nm fab capacity
I don't think there is a sand shortage. Although the specific quartz to line the furnaces to make the wafers comes from one single source and is frequently in short supply
>How much overlap do these kind of "industrial" chips have with the tech which is being stuffed into laptops?
An educated guess suggests that Taiwan is building the bleedin' edge super-fine geometry system-on-chip parts while China's banging out the older generation commodity parts. Also, chips tend to be made in several places -- the chips may be enscapulated in a different country to the one that makes the wafers.
This is what happens when you spend a couple of decades singing the praises of 'globalization' and then abruptly disrupt the semiconductor supply chain as if its still 1982. I dare say it will sort itself out over time but I'd guess that if I were China I'd definitely be in 'no rush' mode.
Are the same factories that make laptop CPUs used to make car IC's? The average laptop CPU is vastly more complex than the average CPU used in a car (most car related functions can be done by the equivalent of an 8 bit PIC processor). I would guess that the average IC for cars would use a larger geometry (and hence different production lines) than the average laptop IC? My guess being based on the fact that besides the difference in complexity, neither chip size nor power consumption is much of a factor in car electronics, nor are vast amounts of high-density memory required or high clock speeds, but vehicle ICs operate in a larger ambient temperature range and in a more hostile electrical environment, making bigger geometries (I would think) more appropriate. But a more informed reader may well know otherwise.
Electronic component manufacturers are not unknown to use a pretext to create an artificial shortage & hike prices.
There's a lot of chips in laptops (sound, USB, power etc), and other devices (wifi, modems, hubs etc), that aren't on the cutting edge nodes like the latest CPUs use. Where cost is typically far more important and so they use older, mature, and so cheaper nodes, which is basically what you have for the stuff in cars.
From what I've heard elsewhere, this was an issue the automotive companies basically created for themselves. They were expecting big drops in sales due to COVID, and so reduced a lot of their orders with companies like TSMC, this freed up capacity at the chip plants, which were picked up by other industries.
When the car companies realised the sales drop wasn't a big as they expected, they went back to the chip companies to increase the orders, but were basically told, "Sorry, we're booked up now".
Part of the issue is the JIT model that car companies follow, very little stock held, so a large impact when things go wrong.
Less wear and tear on your car if you are working from home even part time, not driving your kids to school some/all the time, going on fewer/no weekend trips over the past year and probably another six months or so.
I wonder if the automakers are trying to come up with a reason to produce fewer cars anticipating lower demand, but offer fewer/no discounts to keep up their revenue?
"Less wear and tear on your car if you are working from home even part time, not driving your kids to school some/all the time, "
My car decided it didn't like the lack of use and started growing mushrooms in the passenger footwell
Written off - biohazard
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