back to article Salesforce relieves Republican National Committee of its tools citing 'risk of politically incited violence' across the US

Cloud CRM megacorp Salesforce is the latest tech player to join Amazon, Twitter and Facebook in deciding there is something off about organisations that hype up insurrection against a democratic mandate. According to Reuters, the company said it had "taken action" to prevent its tools from being used by the Republican National …

  1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    That's the least of their problems. Somewhere on the Beeb (as ever, now unfindable) it was reported big firms were stating to reconsider political donations. That's their really big problem.

    1. AW-S

      This I think: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55628946

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Be aware, funding through PACs actually represents about 5% of political donations from these companies. This is a very visible move but it's not as serious as it sounds.

        (Sorry, don't have time to look for details on that, it's probably on vox or axios)

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Ted Cruz

          It's all going pear shaped, which company wants their name associated with potential coup plotters?!

          Ted Cruz's name popped up again:

          This time, the bomber guy in the mob outside, had potential contact details for Fox New's Mark Levin, Sean Hannity and Senator Ted Cruz. Ted Cruz inside the building, was pretending the election was fraudulent, pushing for the 10 day 'fraud audit' while the mob outside was demanding the election be annulled.

          "A separate handwritten note was found in the back of a magazine in Coffman's truck that contained "purported contact information" for talk show host Mark Levin, Fox News' Sean Hannity and Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, prosecutors said."

          https://abcnews.go.com/US/dc-protester-arrested-11-molotov-cocktails-guns-list/story?id=75211356&cid=clicksource_4380645_8_three_posts_card_hed

          Suppose Ted had gotten his delay, hence the audit came out on the 17th January. It would never have worked worked, right? Democrats control the house, the majority of the senate wants it certified, the election would still be certified.

          Ted would have failed, and the mob outside with him.

          Well except the same mob had a second armed militia group planned for the 17th:

          https://web.archive.org/web/20210106072816/https://pafa2021.com/how%2C-when%2C-where

          And one of the parts of that was to seal off Capitol Hill and only allow Republicans into the building! Hence the plot needed both Cruz's part and the armed militia parts to work.

          Look, Republicans, you plotted a coup, but not all of you were directly involved. Some were dragged along thinking you were making reality TV. What harm could it do? The election will still be certified, right? It's not like there is an actual coup? Perhaps off the back of it, you can do more voter suppression next time... it was just TV?

          Except it wasn't.

          Now you can see the part they didn't show you, the part with the gunmen and the bombs and seizing control of Capitol on the 17th, this time not to attack Senators and Pence, this time to only let Republicans in to vote to certify the election. A coup group of Republicans allowed in to vote, at gunpoint from a militia. With their gun to your head, you couldn't back down then, even if you wanted to.

          The people who don't go to prison in this plot, are the ones who make the deal first. Make the deal, squeal on your Republican plotters and save yourselves. They go to jail, not you.

          And Fox News, you need to clean house.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            US came within inches of losing democracy

            Remember when Trump called Brad Raffensperger, the Georgia Secretary of state (a Republican) and tried to get him to find some fraud in the vote? Even deputize some of Trump's guys to investigate? On threat of criminal liability? It was only 10 days ago.

            https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/03/politics/georgia-election-brad-raffensperger-donald-trump/index.html

            Brad had recorded the conversation, so when Trump lied about it later, someone released the audio to show Trump was lying.

            Well supposed Brad had actually caved into Trump and declared a 'fraud' investigation. Or worse, suppose he had actually deputized Trump's men, and those men had claimed fraud, and demanded time to investigate.

            The mob on the 6th would be bigger and angrier, and Ted Cruz would easily have gotten his 10 day 'fraud audit' to investigate this Georgia 'fraud'.

            Trump could have used that to undermine the vote further.... "Look Look PROOF of Fraud! Fake Election Fake Election, I Won, DEEP STATE.... blah blah blah blah" you know, Trump verbal diarrhea.

            The 15000 armed militia they planned for the 17th would easily have been raised. Police would not do their job, thinking they're somehow 'saving democracy' by helping the mob seize power. You see some of them letting protestors in the door?

            https://web.archive.org/web/20210106072816/https://pafa2021.com/how%2C-when%2C-where

            Republicans would have gotten a coup.

            USA was inches away from a successful coup plot.

            1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

              Re: US came within inches of losing democracy

              The mob on the 6th would be bigger and angrier, and Ted Cruz would easily have gotten his 10 day 'fraud audit' to investigate this Georgia 'fraud'.

              Allowing a fraudit is arguably a good thing for democracy. Or just potentially confusing. On the one hand, denials of fraud even before counts were completed. On the other, denials of fraud investigations because counts have been completed.

              Or you frame the scope of an investigation to not actually investigate it properly. Want a recount because election observers were locked out? Sure, here's a recount. See? Much the same totals. Those were still stored in the memory, so what did you expect?

              (kidding)

              Ok, you can work around criticisms of voting machines by doing a hand count, which ISTR happened, or at least hand counting samples happened. But some fraud almost certainly happened, ie one criticism was related to whether ballot papers were legal to be counted in the first place. So criticisms ranging from accuracy of electoral rolls to ballot stuffing, or authenticating postal ballots by signature verification.

              Some of those claims arguably weren't really investigated, even though they were known risks. But given the US process, also a huge task given 150m or so votes.. And the time pressures given a series of deadlines, ultimately ending on the 20th.. But unlikely to have changed the outcome given the difference in vote totals anyway. But it was a tad messy, and hopefully lessons will have been learned so that in 4 years time, the process will be cleaner. And hopefully covid will be gone by then, so elections could be held in a more traditional manner.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: US came within inches of losing democracy

                "Allowing a fraudit is arguably a good thing for democracy."

                They had 50 'fraudits', they lost all of them. What's one more? Only this time, let Trump run the 'fraudit' and have only Republicans vote on it, at gunpoint from a Trump controlled armed militia. That's a good thing for Democracy right?

                https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2020/12/08/trump-and-the-gop-have-now-lost-50-post-election-lawsuits/?sh=5203533c2960

                The 50-case milestone was reached Tuesday as a state court in Georgia dismissed a Republican-led lawsuit, and the count includes both cases that courts have struck down and that the GOP plaintiffs have chosen to withdraw, such as an Arizona lawsuit that the Trump campaign backed down from because it would not affect enough ballots to change the election outcome.

                The Trump campaign and GOP’s only win struck down an extended deadline the Pennsylvania secretary of state set for voters to cure mail-in ballots that were missing proof of identification, and likely only affected a small number of mail-in ballots.

                Among the Trump campaign’s more notable losses in court thus far are the campaign’s failed lawsuit attempting to overturn Pennsylvania’s election results, which a Trump-appointed appeals court judge said was “light on facts” and “[had] no merit,” and a Nevada court that found the campaign had “no credible or reliable evidence” proving voter fraud.

                Courts have also repeatedly struck down the campaign’s allegations claiming their election observers were not able to properly observe the vote counting process, and while one Pennsylvania court did grant the campaign a win by ordering that poll watchers can move closer to election workers, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court later overturned the ruling.

                In addition to the Trump campaign, GOP allies including state lawmakers, Republican Party officials and former Trump legal advisor Sidney Powell have also brought dozens of entirely unsuccessful lawsuits, and a lawsuit brought by Pennsylvania GOP lawmakers was rejected Tuesday by the U.S. Supreme Court.

                1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

                  Re: US came within inches of losing democracy

                  and while one Pennsylvania court did grant the campaign a win by ordering that poll watchers can move closer to election workers, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court later overturned the ruling.

                  So like I said. What's the point of having election observers if they can't actually observe anything? Or for your other points, dismissing cases for lack of evidence. But not actually bothering to investigate if there was any evidence. Ok, that's not always the court's job, although courts can appoint or direct investigators.

                  But back to an IT angle, Dominion's filed against Powell demanding $1bn+ in damages to it's reputation. So assuming ongoing investigations find evidence of fraud/irregularities wrt voting machines, Powell can present that.. And Dominion can't necessarily just drop their claim given that would create the appearence of a frivolous or malicious lawsuit. It'll probably be a lot easier to show harm and actual damages in the case of Salesforce, or Parler though.

                  And on an IT angle, in the UK, where I've been an election scrutineer, as I understand it, ballot papers are counted, then the papers are sealed back up, and buried in a salt mine. Just in case they're needed for any future investigation. With e-voting/counting, audit trails seem somewhat lacking. But presumably possible to improve, eg having firmware/sofware/results on a removable element that could be buried with any physical ballots.

                  1. P. Lee Silver badge

                    Re: US came within inches of losing democracy

                    ChooChoo! All aboard the Biden Train!

                    Next Stop: the Chinese Market, via Purchased President. Runs express through US Workers.

    2. ecofeco Silver badge

      They are not "reconsidering". They are actively cutting off all donations and funds and some are even asking for their money back.

      The corps are leaving the sinking ship, like, well, you know.

      1. DavCrav Silver badge

        "some are even asking for their money back."

        I really don't see how this is going to work, unless there was a 'must not commit sedition' clause in the donation. And if that's true, I would get whoever put that clause in to predict lottery numbers.

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          The money was given to the PAC for their stated aim of bringing about Truth Liberty and Apple Pie - if it was actually used to stage a terrorist act then the directors are going to be looking at serious naughty step time

          1. DavCrav Silver badge

            "The money was given to the PAC for their stated aim of bringing about Truth Liberty and Apple Pie - if it was actually used to stage a terrorist act then the directors are going to be looking at serious naughty step time"

            The standard trick is for PAC no 1 to give it PAC no 2, and so on, until the money is clean as a whistle.

      2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        This is the same use of "consider" as in "consider your position" which translates as "it's time for you to resign".

  2. Danny 2 Silver badge

    Scary adverts

    I read US journals using the Tor browser and thus get to see web adverts. For the past six months the adverts have mostly been for clever trompe-l'œil T shirts, you know, spirals disappearing into your chest. For the past two weeks all the adverts are for body armour and combat clothing.

    1. DavCrav Silver badge

      Re: Scary adverts

      When people in the US kept stating that TOR was being used by terrorists, I don't think this is what they meant, but it turns out to be true.

  3. Mike 137 Silver badge

    To be expected

    Lots of rats are leaving what they reckon to be a sinking ship. Nobody gave two hoots while the trump's trumpetings were in vogue, but it's a matter of "reputation" now.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Everyone of these moves

    backs the hardened Trumpists and friends (MAGA, Q-anon etc) even more into a corner.

    What's all this about 'cornered rats'?

    They won't give up easily.

    1. Tom 38 Silver badge

      Re: Everyone of these moves

      Flee a sinking ship?

      1. Danny Boyd

        Re: Everyone of these moves

        Recall the recent election results. There is half a US population of the rats you talk about. I doubt they are going to abandon their ship easily.

        1. ecofeco Silver badge

          Re: Everyone of these moves

          Then they can rightly go down with it.

          1. veti Silver badge

            Re: Everyone of these moves

            That's 76 million human beings you're talking about.

            They're not going anywhere. They've nowhere to go. They may not be a majority, but whoever tries to govern America had better reach *some* accommodation with them, because the alternative is a more competent version of Trump taking power.

            1. ecofeco Silver badge

              Re: Everyone of these moves

              One does not negotiate with terrorists.

              81 million people told them to get bent. That's how elections work.

              They can "accommodate" themselves like adults or suffer the consequences. Sedition and insurrection is not a game. Extortion is not "accommodated."

              1. Roger Kynaston Bronze badge
                IT Angle

                One does not negotiate with terrorists

                But one does - all the time.

                On that side of the pond the orange idiot "negotiated" with Kim Jong Un who has been classed as a terrorist in the past.

                Obama negotiated with the Iranian government to end the sanctions regime.

                On this side of the pond, Tony Blair negotiated with the IRA to help seal the Good Friday Agreement.

                As regards the 81M people telling the rest they don't like Donny the orange idiot - well yes but democracy is for all and a government has to govern everyone. The said orange idiot has been pretending to govern for his supporters with a bit FU2 to everyone else which has worked very well.

                As a blightian who passionately wishes that we were still in the EU I have been on the receiving end of FU2s from our lesser trumpian and I can tell you it is not a nice experience.

                </finger wagging>

                Icon because... even though the original article did have a tech angle.

            2. fishman

              Re: Everyone of these moves

              In the last election, Hillary Clinton got 3 million more votes than Trump. Trump didn't try for accommodation.

        2. Tom 38 Silver badge

          Re: Everyone of these moves

          Recent news suggest republicans are going to dump Trump PDQ. Trump certainly has a core of extremely enthusiastic supporters, but not 74 million of them - a good chunk of those voters are just "people who don't vote Democrat" and they're not keen on being associated with a seditious president.

          The R politicians especially will divide into two camps, those who want to publicly denounce Trump, so that they can say in the next election cycle "I don't have anything to do with that sort of behaviour, look I voted to convict him", and those who will continue to back him, hoping to be the next driver of the loony train.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Everyone of these moves

            > and those who will continue to back him, hoping to be the next driver of the loony train.

            This bit is the most serious threat facing America at the moment. Why? Because when Trump ran his original campaign a lot of his behaviour was rationalised as: well he's a reality TV star; he just says things to shock; the race with Hilary is tight so he has to slap a dead cat on the table every now and again. When he gets elected he'll calm down; he's a business man so he'll be sensible etc.

            The latter never happened and the same accommodating arguments mustn't be used for any R. politicians hoping to pick up the core Trump vote. Those supporters are toxic and need to be pushed away to no-hoper candidates for the good of the R. party as well as US democracy.

            1. Rol Silver badge

              Re: Everyone of these moves

              I have no doubt in my mind that the American condition has so pervaded society, that it would take all the psychiatrists from around the world to convince American psychiatrists that millions of their countrymen are, without doubt, clinically insane and should be immediately disarmed and disconnected from the internet.

              Just because blithering idiot happens to be "normal for the nation" it doesn't mean the status quo should be accepted. Maybe release from prison the drug dealers and other non-violent offenders and replace them with anyone who bought 500 rounds of ammunition in the last month.

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Everyone of these moves

          An awful lot of that "half a US population" will have voted Republican because thay always do and aren't rabidly fond of Trump. I would think the majority of them would be glad to see the back of Trump and get their Party back.

        4. HausWolf

          Re: Everyone of these moves

          While loud, the basket of deplorables as they were once called, less than half of a half. And even then, not all of these voters are going to be onboard with overthrowing the government by violent means. They might not get to fly on airplanes as witnessed by the ones crying about not being allowed on flights home.

    2. ecofeco Silver badge

      Re: Everyone of these moves

      You are Neville Chamberlain and I claim my five pounds.

    3. Danny 5

      Re: Everyone of these moves

      You're thinking of cats, cornered rats generally roll over and die.

      Come to think of it, I kinda like that analogy.

    4. Jason Hindle

      Re: Everyone of these moves

      "backs the hardened Trumpists and friends (MAGA, Q-anon etc) even more into a corner.

      What's all this about 'cornered rats'?

      They won't give up easily."

      If the US wishes to remain a democracy (and the popular vote suggests this is the case), these people will simply have to be dealt with. There may well be blood.

  5. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

    Salesforce is not alone here

    Apple is going to apparently make a big announcement on Thursday.

    They might be joining the club of GOP boycotters.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Salesforce is not alone here

      No, they're probably going to sue Trump cos they've got the copyright on insurrection

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    There is absolutely no evidence that the Republican National Committee promoted any violence whatsoever. So Salesforce is saying it's ok to dump a customer you find inconvenient whenever you want. Apparently "Cloud Reliability" now depends on your political leanings.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Anyone cheering this on needs to think good and hard about the ramifications of organisations and financial institutions breaking contracts and cutting access to the financial system, over mere guilt by association. Not over illegality or criminality, or incitement, or anything else. Merely being guilty of being in the same intellectual space as people who might have done wrong. This sort of coordinated action, to isolate people and groups who have broken no laws, is terrifying to anyone who has even the smallest amount of intelligence in their head.

      If they can effectively form a cartel to do this to one of the largest political organisations in the western world, without any apparent repercussion, then they can do it to anyone. The worst part is they already have, and morons celebrated, because it was politically convenient.

      1. don't you hate it when you lose your account Silver badge

        A good contract

        Would give them a way to legally do this, reputational harm? Salesforce will have good contracts :) hope that eases your pain. Oh,and ain't capitalism a bitch.

        1. Clunking Fist Bronze badge

          Re: A good contract

          Capitalism? When giant corporations and governments collude to shut down political opponents, that's not capitalism that's, um... Let me think, what do we normally call that?

          1. Wellyboot Silver badge

            Re: A good contract

            A raging mob?

          2. ecofeco Silver badge

            Re: A good contract

            Sedition? Insurrection?

            Oh wait, that was the Republicans.

            1. This post has been deleted by its author

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: A good contract

              The state and corporate entities colluding to isolate and exclude political foes and enforce political orthodoxy is called "fascism".

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: A good contract

                Yep. Trump has shown us all that fascism can work in America, and the people are not nearly as averse to it as previously assumed.

                And his enemies have learned.

              2. This post has been deleted by a moderator

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: A good contract

                  Political campaigning is protected.

                  The RNC did not commit any of the crimes you're throwing around. Parler did not commit any of the crimes you're throwing around.

              3. Adelio Bronze badge

                Re: A good contract

                if you are accusing the state please remeber that currently TRUMP is in power and represents the "state" so you are saying that Trump hurt himself?

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: A good contract

                  Trump is the President. The President is not the state, and is not a king.

                  I wasn't talking about Trump, however, but about the actions being taken, or threatened to be taken, against organisations such as the RNC, or against companies that compete with established tech platforms to provide alternative services. There is blatant cartel behaviour going on right now, but because the targets of it are in the wrong intellectual space, you're all cheering it on.

                  1. Anonymous Coward
                    Anonymous Coward

                    Re: in the wrong intellectual space

                    like the third reich was.

                    1. Anonymous Coward
                      Anonymous Coward

                      Re: in the wrong intellectual space

                      People like you are exactly the reason why we're in this situation. Everyone who doesn't immediately agree with every position you take must be a nazi.

                      1. ecofeco Silver badge

                        Re: in the wrong intellectual space

                        If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck and commits insurrection like a duck.....

                        1. Anonymous Coward
                          Anonymous Coward

                          Re: in the wrong intellectual space

                          You people have been calling his supporters nazis and fascists, racists, terrorists and bigots since before he took office, and now you're acting surprised that some of them gave up and decided to accept the box you've forced them into?

                  2. Danny 5

                    Re: A good contract

                    Cancel culture at it's finest. I am not in favour of guilt by association, that's just plain wrong, regardless of your political affiliation. I'm a lefty and consider people that support the republican narrative my political adversaries, but silencing that, because they support the "wrong" ideology is crazy.

                    That's what fascism is built on.

                    1. ecofeco Silver badge

                      Re: A good contract

                      Sedition and insurrection is not free speech, you twat gobbler.

                      That's about has "cancel" as it gets.

                  3. Lars Silver badge
                    Thumb Down

                    Re: A good contract

                    "the wrong intellectual space".

                    There is no "intellectual" space around something like Trump.

                    1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

                      Re: A good contract

                      But there is, it is a complete intellectual vacuum.

              4. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: A good contract

                The state and corporate entities colluding to isolate and exclude political foes and enforce political orthodoxy is called "fascism".

                The state and corporate allies colluding (you mean, cooperating) to isolate and exclude political foes (you mean, domestic terrorists and violent insurrectionists) and enforce political orthodoxy (you mean, the rule of law) is called reinforcing the idea that the USA is a country of laws, with a robust and orderly transfer of power. FTFY

                1. don't you hate it when you lose your account Silver badge

                  Re: A good contract

                  Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.

                  1. Anonymous Coward
                    Anonymous Coward

                    Re: A good contract

                    "[...] forcible suppression of opposition [...] "

                    Removing checks & balances - especially in the judiciary. Currently being used by authoritarian regimes in supposed democracies.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        I think that the megacorps are

        Trying to make a one party state....

        This is the real threat to democracy. as pointed out above - there are almost 80 million people who dont agree at the ballot box - and as there are republicans who 'dont vote democrat' on principle, there are democrats (me) and libertarians who are uncomfortable with the implications of this.

        Hopefully, its just a 'bit of grandstanding' on the winners side - but - many, many examples through history show a sorry end - Gracai brothers anyone? It didnt end well for them (murdered by the Senete in the Roman Republic - BUT - it was also the beginning of the end of that republic and the rise of the emperors.

        Do not think it cant happen again.

    2. Lars Silver badge
      Flame

      "There is absolutely no evidence that the Republican National Committee promoted any violence".

      But they have kept on shutting up, like most of the GOP, when decency demanded they for once stood up.

      Just listen to Jordan here:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lP_SuxCEt4c

      1. Cederic Silver badge

        Meanwhile senior Democrats raise funds for people that were arrested for using violence (including arson, riots and assaulting the police) for political purposes.

        https://twitter.com/KamalaHarris/status/1267555018128965643

        A lot of people are noticing the hypocrisy, by politicians and by technology companies.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          @Cederic - Small correction

          people that were arrested and charged with using violence is more appropriate here. It is up to a judge to decide the matter.

          1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

            Re: @Cederic - Small correction

            people that were arrested and charged with using violence is more appropriate here. It is up to a judge to decide the matter.

            Depends if they make it that far. If politically appointed prosecutors decide not to charge one group of violent offenders, but throw the book at another.. That's not exactly justice. Plus we're living in interesting times, so favoring bail for one group, but not another serves a bit of a dual purpose. It gets useful idiots back on the streets to potentially cause more violence, but keeps their political opponents incarcerated so they can't.. And then there's that virus, so prisoners being detained for longer because some states have cancelled jury trials.

            1. VirtualizationGuy

              Re: @Cederic - Small correction

              As an American, the differences that I see between the BLM protests and the Capitol protests is one of intent and premeditation. The BLM actions were spontaneous reactions to perceived incidents of official overreach and unnecessary violence. The Capitol protests have been planned well in advance with the intent to overturn the normally uneventful activities involved in an election. In fact, they are trying to change the rule-of-law by force, whereas the BLM movement wants equal treatment under the law. The RNC is being swept into this turmoil because of the large number of high profile Republicans that have backed actions that were extremely unlikely to work (and some that never had a chance).

              1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

                Re: @Cederic - Small correction

                The BLM actions were spontaneous reactions to perceived incidents of official overreach and unnecessary violence.

                Possible I guess. Although left-wing protests also used social media to plan & co-ordinate those spontaneous protests.

                In fact, they are trying to change the rule-of-law by force, whereas the BLM movement wants equal treatment under the law.

                Or unequal treatment. If storming a federal building in Portland or Seattle is simply part of a peaceful protest, then why the outrage when conservative individuals or groups copy those same tactics?

                The RNC is being swept into this turmoil because of the large number of high profile Republicans that have backed actions that were extremely unlikely to work (and some that never had a chance)

                Such is politics. Sure the 'coup' had no real chance of countering any DNC coup, but opposition parties oppose. The DNC opposed Trump's election, or when the election was 'stolen' from Al Gore. This time around the IT angle is more interesting given the way 'big tech' has been piling into those politics.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: @Cederic - Small correction

                  I vigorously object to the "Or unequal treatment." Please spare us the "leftists are more violent" trope.

                  We all know how the storming of the capitol would have ended if that was a BLM Crowd because we all saw the videos same as you did unless you are suffering from selective amnesia.

                  I mean, for crying out loud, some of the cops USHERED the "patriotic" seditious mob into the capitol building. Now contrast that with cops/national guard beating up BLM protesters while dressed and armed like they were soldiers getting ready to patrol an area controlled by ISIS somewhere in the middle east. In one of the previous shootings by trump supporters at a BLM rally, the white gunman walked right past the police with an assault rifle while they ignored him and sped on towards the clear and present danger of black folks committing the egregious sin of peacefully(!) "protesting while black".

                  Leftist and right wing protests are not the same and pretending otherwise is not only dishonest but takes us for blind fools. This does not advance the conversation that absolutely needs to happen and helps absolutely no one - we are neither blind nor stupid.

                  1. Anonymous Coward
                    Anonymous Coward

                    Re: @Cederic - Small correction

                    It wasn't a rightist who bombed the Senate in the 1983. The weather underground weren't rightists, either.

                    Extremists will go to extreme lengths to make their point. The problem is that the left tries to justify their extremism as a just cause and downplay the resulting violence as a necessary evil, whereas the right tries to deny that their extremists are part of them.

              2. ecofeco Silver badge

                Re: @Cederic - Small correction

                One minor change:

                The BLM actions were spontaneous reactions to documented incidents of official overreach and unnecessary violence.

                1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

                  Re: @Cederic - Small correction

                  The BLM actions were spontaneous reactions to documented incidents of official overreach and unnecessary violence.

                  Some weren't 'spontaneous' though, they were often organised protests that devolved into violence, arson, looting, attacks on police officers etc. Then overreach and unncessary violence. So take the shooting of Jacob Blake that lead to CNN describing 'fiery but peaceful' protests against a backdrop of burning buildings. Initial reactions were an innocent man was shot. Later investigations show Blake was reaching into a car where there was a knife. But investigations take longer than mobs are willing to give.

                  Or the protests in DC May 29th to June 23, where protesters 'stormed' the White House. Or, as wiki puts it-

                  While most of the events were peaceful, some involved violence, looting and destruction of property

                  Now mostly remembered it seems for Trump's photo op outside Ashburton House, after a fire had mysteriously started in it's nursery. Or remembered for the 'brutality' by law enforcement when protestors were moved on.

                  Or even previous 'stormings' of the Capitol-

                  The Capitol Police reported that 17 protestors were arrested in the first hour of the hearing.[70] Linda Sarsour was one of the first in line for the hearing and was one of the first to be arrested.[73] Ultimately, 70 people were arrested that day.[73] Altogether, at least 227 protestors were arrested over the course of the four-day hearing, with most being charged with disorderly conduct, crowding or obstructing with fines paid between $35 – $50 USD. Senator Orrin Hatch said, "These people are so out of line they shouldn't even be allowed in the doggone room."

                  Where protestors disrupted the Kavanaugh confirmation hearing. And may give an indication of the punishments that might be imposed on protestors from the 6th.

                  Or not. But such is politics.

        2. Jellied Eel Silver badge

          A lot of people are noticing the hypocrisy, by politicians and by technology companies.

          Yup. One of the more bizarre examples here-

          https://www.rt.com/usa/512333-twitter-decries-uganda-shutdown/

          Ahead of the Ugandan election, we're hearing reports that Internet service providers are being ordered to block social media and messaging apps. We strongly condemn internet shutdowns – they are hugely harmful, violate basic human rights and the principles of the #OpenInternet.

          — Twitter Public Policy (@Policy) January 12, 2021

          The world's gorn mad. See also Navalny's criticisms of 'big tech'. Or perhaps he's just realised that being mostly irrelevant in Russian domestic politics, he was perhaps considered more useful as a martyr than an idiot.

          1. ecofeco Silver badge

            Still can't see the difference between free speech and sedition and insurrection, can you.

            1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

              Still can't see the difference between free speech and sedition and insurrection, can you.

              Yep. Luckily legislators have previously defined much of that stuff, in the US, over the last couple of hundred years. Prior to that, Americans were of course engaged in sedition and insurrection against HMG.

              Such is politics. So now Trump's done the double, it just leaves a 2nd trial where Trump can defend himself against those charges. Much like the impeachment itself, that'll potentially be a bit of a show trial. Or I guess due process & the Constitution could be skipped, and go straight to a guilty verdict. And then Trump could be stripped of his security detail, pension, honorifics and be barred from holding any public office ever again. Which would seem to be a rather unique punishment, and one that demonstrates liberal America is as gracious in victory as the DNC has been in defeat.

              But 'free speech' is just that. Speech. Assaults, arson, looting and rioting are seperate offences in US legislation. Trump knows the charges, so can now look to defending against those charges. Which also goes back to the IT angle, ie litigation for breach of contract(s) by 'big tech'.

              And meanwhile, in other news..

              https://www.houstonchronicle.com/politics/texas/article/TX-woman-arrested-election-fraud-project-veritas-15867537.php

              SAN ANTONIO — A former campaign worker was arrested Wednesday and charged with election tampering, the state attorney general’s office announced.

              Which could also be political theatre, ie Texas's AG playing politics. It's just an arrest, there has been no conviction, yet. But then Texan Democrats got their retaliation in early demanding Paxton's resignation even before the Rodriguez arrest. Again that's more embarrassing than anything given it's unlikely that Rodriguez's actions would have changed the outcome. But if convicted, demonstrates there was some fraud.

    3. Robert Carnegie Silver badge

      We don't know what the RNC were using Salesforce product to do. Salesforce does, probably.

    4. martinusher Silver badge

      "Denyability"

      The messages I got during fund raising robocalls was pretty explicit about the 'extremist' Democrats and their danger to society. Obvkously nobody's goiing to come right out and say it but there was more than a hint of "who will relieve me of this troublsome priest?" about them.

      I am also in the coverage are for a number of AM radio stations. Their content is pretty near the bone a lot of the time -- OFCOM would come down hard on it, streams of invective laden, incendirary consciousness.

      If you want to see just how near the edge the RNC is you need look no further than the party's leadership in Arizona. Everything is there -- all hidden in plain view.

      1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

        Re: "Denyability"

        I am also in the coverage are for a number of AM radio stations. Their content is pretty near the bone a lot of the time -- OFCOM would come down hard on it, streams of invective laden, incendirary consciousness.

        That can be normal for the South. It was strange driving around there at a time when news & politicians were railing against religious fundamentalism, yet US airwaves were full of hellfire & damnation religious channels.

        If you want to see just how near the edge the RNC is you need look no further than the party's leadership in Arizona. Everything is there -- all hidden in plain view.

        Less hidden would be the American South's Jim Crow laws, or creation & use of violent mobs to do double duty in both terrorising black communities, and the hated Republican carpetbaggers. See the Wilmington Massacre of 1898 for more info. Of course those Southern Democrats were nothing like today's Southern Democrats. But as they occured only 120yrs ago, still within living memory of some senior DNC figures.

    5. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Salesforce, like any multi-national, sells to a wider clientele than the US (yes, USians, you are just a part of this world). If they judge that Trump has tainted the reputation of his party as far as the rest of the world is concerned then disassociating themselves with is is the better overall step.

      1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

        Death of a SaaSman?

        Salesforce, like any multi-national, sells to a wider clientele than the US (yes, USians, you are just a part of this world).

        I guess one interesting outcome could be if companies rethink the wisdom of relying on SaaS apps or the 'cloud', given the plug can get pulled. Other apps are available, or could become available. Which I guess would be easier for an app like Parler, ie it'd be easier to host that yourself rather than having to depend on any 'cloud' provider.

  7. Marty McFly
    Megaphone

    The real truth...

    "When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say."

    George R.R. Martin, author of A Clash of Kings

    1. phogan99

      Re: The real truth...

      We've heard what they had to say for 4 years, and seen the results.

      1. ecofeco Silver badge

        Re: The real truth...

        Exactly.

    2. sabroni Silver badge

      Re: George R.R. Martin, author of A Clash of Kings

      That's a work of fiction junior, grow up.

      We've had four years of his tongue, It led to insurrection and disunity on a national scale.

      Because it's all fucking lies. It's not alternative facts it's untruths. He didn't win the election, he lost both the popular vote and the electoral college vote.

      Why do you want him to keep stirring up rebellion? Don't you believe in democracy?

      1. veti Silver badge

        Re: George R.R. Martin, author of A Clash of Kings

        You think disunity started with Trump?

        If everyone, but most especially the DNC, had actually been listening to those people before 2016, maybe we'd never have had to put up with Trump.

    3. Adelio Bronze badge

      Re: The real truth...

      Trump can still blast his Trumpets, he can stand on the whitehouse lawn bleating his views, does not mean that everyone else wants to be associated with him. And a lot of people and companies have decided that they do not.

      There is NO 1st amendment issue and it is not the government that is doing it (Unlss you think that Trump is trying to harm himself as he IS the government until the 20th)

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: The real truth...

        As many previous presidents found out, once they entered office, the president is not a king. He is not "the government", he is only one part of it.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: The real truth...

          "[...] , the president is not a king."

          Unless he is able to effect rule by decree. Only supported checks&balances prevent that. A more focused person than Trump would ensure all the corrupted/acquiescent pieces are in place before activating such "emergency" powers. Then they would purge those who thought they were pulling the strings.

    4. Tom 38 Silver badge

      Re: The real truth...

      If Trump wants to speak, he can walk 50 yards and be on national television, and reported by every major newspaper in the world. He's the least silenced man on the planet.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Picking sides

    The problem with picking sides in a politically polarized debate is alienating one side or the other.

    It does not matter which version of the election results you believe. When a business publicly picks sides, one chunk of their potential customers become disaffected. Do the players of big tech really think they have become so indispensable that their customers will silently stand by and do nothing?

    1. Lars Silver badge
      Happy

      Re: Picking sides

      You do know Trump lost fair and square, the majority of Americans know it too, it's not that hard to pick one side. the honest side.

      There is never two sides to reality.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Picking sides

        Just try to take the politics out of this for a moment and pick a different situation.

        Baseball. Boston Red Sox vs New York Yankees. Big rivalry. If a Boston business publicly supports the Yankees, they may have a dedicated customer base that loves them - and a bunch of other potential customers that refuse to walk in the door. Totally expected when the business is choosing sides.

        I think the point is the same here. Choosing alliances will endure some customers, but it will drive other potential customers away.

        Bringing politics back in to connect the dots... These moves by the tech companies are not going to hurt Trump at all. But they are a kick in the nads to the millions of people who supported and voted for him. Those are the potential customers at risk.

        1. ecofeco Silver badge

          Re: Picking sides

          Take the politics out of... politics?

          Can you even hear yourself?

        2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: Picking sides

          "These moves by the tech companies are not going to hurt Trump at all. But they are a kick in the nads to the millions of people who supported and voted for him. Those are the potential customers at risk."

          How many of Trump supporters are decision makers in real and potential Salesforce customers (a) in the US and (b) in the rest of the world?

        3. HausWolf

          Re: Picking sides

          To continue your analogy, say Mickey Mantle takes a bat to Carl Yastrzemski in the field of play. Now if your business model still sells baseball cards with Mickey's face on them you will lose the Red Sox customers and the fair minded Yankees customers who thought this was wrong.

          And rightfully be condemned by Cubs fans too.

    2. Pascal Monett Silver badge
      Stop

      Re: Picking sides

      So you're going to mount a terrorist assault on Salesforce HQ ?

      Because Democracy seems to not be your way of thinking, and anyone who even pretends to find an excuse for this shameful demonstration of just how much the GOP pisses on the Constitution is just another terrorist.

    3. ecofeco Silver badge

      Re: Picking sides

      Nobody cares what criminals think.

      1. veti Silver badge

        Re: Picking sides

        How about 70 million American voters, does anyone care what they think?

        If not, then get ready to do all this again, at least every four years from now on.

        1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

          Re: Picking sides

          I don't care what about 150 million American voters think (if they think at all). Just like the rest of the world I suffer the consequences.

        2. Adelio Bronze badge

          Re: Picking sides

          The issue is that a lot of these "supporters" have constantly been lied to by Trump and his enablers, so often that these people have started to believe him so it is hard to argue with them, even though they have never been able to provide proof, especially to courts, whihc actually like to have REAL proof, not conjectures.

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Picking sides

          How about 70 million American voters, does anyone care what they think?

          Apparently, 80 million American voters don't.

    4. phogan99

      Re: Picking sides

      Violent insurrectionists, conspiracy theorists, and neo-nazis aren't exactly sympathetic figures and I doubt they or their enablers will be missed.

    5. veti Silver badge

      Re: Picking sides

      There is only one "version" of the election results. In all his phoned-in phoney "challenges", Trump never got around to articulating what he thought the true numbers were.

      However, your underlying point is valid. Just because the RNC decisively lost, does not make it necessary (or prudent, or right) for other organisations to dogpile on them.

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Picking sides

        "Trump never got around to articulating what he thought the true numbers were."

        Just what he wanted them to be. And his definition of theft is the difference between his wants and reality.

        1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

          Re: Picking sides

          Reality to Trump: "Where have you gone this time?"

    6. Adelio Bronze badge

      Re: Picking sides

      T.B.H yes, many of them are sooooo large and they are so global in reach that this will have little to no impact on thieir businesses.

      Personally, If I had any say in these matters I would rather NOT do business with Trump or any company that associates with hims views.

      But that is just me

    7. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Picking sides

      "Do the players of big tech really think they have become so indispensable that their customers will silently stand by and do nothing?"

      But which customers are you thinking about. Out beyond the US shores lies the majority of our planet and right now many of Salesforce's customers there are looking at Trump's party and forming their own opinions about it. Salesforce is concerned about what these customers might do.

    8. Jellied Eel Silver badge

      Re: Pickling sides

      The problem with picking sides in a politically polarized debate is alienating one side or the other.

      Or there's the old saying, "Divide, and conquer". Having two sides tearing lumps out of each other just makes it easier to justify passing authoritarian legislation, or just tip the balance of power towards your own side.

  9. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    So this is what we're going to have for the next 4 years

    A careful whitewashing of an actual terrorist assault on the basis that one side lost unfairly (demonstrably false), coupled with whining about Freedom of Expression (not the problem) and incessantly repeated falsehoods (we actually won) in order to ensure that the absolute fucking morons stay alert, primed and ready to start this shit all over again.

    My message to the USA : you need to take 10% of your military budget and put it into educating your huddled masses, because they have become a danger to your Democracy. Try pushing courses on critical thinking (yeah, I know, as if that'll ever happen).

    1. veti Silver badge

      Re: So this is what we're going to have for the next 4 years

      Can we please stop using the word terrorist here?

      Terrorism is about causing terror. The clue is in the name. While I'm sure some of the people who assaulted the capitol had this in mind, I don't for a minute suppose that most of them were thinking anything so coherent. Because if they were, they would have been a lot scarier. And better coordinated.

      Call it insurrection if you want. And yes, Trump is personally guilty of sedition by any reasonable standard. But terrorism it wasn't.

      1. Adelio Bronze badge

        Re: So this is what we're going to have for the next 4 years

        Agreed that probably only a minority wanted to actually harm people, but they invaded the capitol, broke the law, smashed windows, stole property and shouted insults at anyone that was in front of them.

        This was not and probably never was going to be a "Peaceful" crown. Not after Trump and his associates spent weeks riling up the crowd.

        1. ecofeco Silver badge

          Re: So this is what we're going to have for the next 4 years

          Years. They spent years setting this up.

      2. Pascal Monett Silver badge

        They came with the intent of taking hostages and making demands. They had pipe bombs and Molotov cocktails. What do you call that ?

        It's not because they did not attain their objectives that they are not guilty of planning terror, ergo they are terrorists.

      3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: So this is what we're going to have for the next 4 years

        Back in 1968 there were student demonstrations about one thing or another all over the western world. I don't suppose many of those in Peoples Democracy in Belfast had terrorism in mind but it provided the starting point for years of that and a mob carrying arms and invading the legislature building are considerably further down that line PD ever were.

  10. gerdesj Silver badge
    Gimp

    Liberty speech

    Why are we seeing so many IT companies taking it upon themselves to enforce what is correct speech? Why do our elected representatives not do this?

    Demos-kratos has changed somewhat in the last zillion years and we and our politics have to keep up. Democracy needs a speed boost of some sort that still works within its constraints. I'm not sure what that will look like yet but there is surely a way to make it work.

    There is something dreadfully wrong when Twitter and Facebook become the final arbiter.

    1. Snake Silver badge

      Re: Liberty speech

      As someone else said, you can remove your hand from your pearls now.

      Contrary to the dog whistles of "freedom of speech!" and "democracy threatened", solicitation or incitement to promote violence has NEVER, EVER, EVER been considered protected speech.

      Never.

      You can, and always have, been subject to arrest if law enforcement consists your threats of violence believable.

      Your words have always been subject to restrictions or censure if you use your words to plan an uprising against any lawfully elected government of the United States of America.

      All media companies must abide by the laws of their respective lands, and in all "civilized" countries incitement to violence is a criminal act. Therefore, promoting violence is strictly forbidden in any ToS worth its legal salt, lest the media company get shut down and management thrown in jail for aiding and abetting.

      Now grow up, please. I'm tired of hearing childish whinging when people can't get what they want, even when what they want is forbidden, illegal, immoral, unjust, corrupt or just plain rotten selfish to the core.

      1. ecofeco Silver badge

        Re: Liberty speech

        Well said.

      2. gerdesj Silver badge

        Re: Liberty speech

        I'm British

    2. This post has been deleted by a moderator

    3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Liberty speech

      "There is something dreadfully wrong when Twitter and Facebook become the final arbiter."

      There's something dreadfully wrong if they have to become the final arbiters.

  11. Paul Hovnanian Silver badge

    Violence against ...

    ... a democratic mandate?

    I wonder if they are doing business with the United Fruit Company?

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    At last something good gas happened because someone used "the cloud" aka "someone else's computers".

  13. Binraider

    Brexit. Absolutely abhorrent to me. Remainers lost the vote. Some even went on protest marches. But they didn't invade political buildings. Or it's leadership (was there any?) didn't incite riots. I can be pished off about the result, but I can't change it (legally). So I'll just remind people of I told you so as the shiat continues to dribble down from the fallout. Covid provides something of a smokescreen so not the easiest thing to measure, but the damage is there.

    Choosing to ignore the outcome of the very-well audited voting process is nothing less than advocating installing a dictator. Do they understand what that means?

    DON'T resort to the methods of the mob. Accept the result happened and come back talking, not fighting, in 4 years time. If you believe your case is just; MAKE IT. Don't rely on unverifiable misinformation and lies. That only sends the rationally minded away from your case.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Remainers

      I have seen a lot of people comparing the mob to Remainer, as "people who can't accept a democratic vote" but that seems very tenuous to me.

      I don't think I've heard a single remainer, let alone anyone of any public standing, claim that the *actual count* was interfered with by some shadowy force or suggest that they should "take it back".with "strength"

      Attacking the machinery of democracy, when there is no reasonable evidence of any faiilings, is attacking democracy itself.

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Remainers

        It's as well when making these comparisons to remember the murder of Jo Cox. It wasn't Remain who deployed threats and violence.

  14. Danny 2 Silver badge

    The fury of a micro penis

    Illma Gore painted a nude portrait of Donald Trump in 2016. I recommend you don't click on this link because it will inhabit your head even after Trump is dumped from the Whitehouse.

    She was banned from social media, hit by lawsuits, and attacked in the street. Just for her art. I can't recall any Republicans defending her free speech or urging people come together.

    Disclaimer: I also have tiny hands that would rule me out of being a pianist, but have only had complaints that my piano-organ was painfully large. Probably why I'm not a politician.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    makes it so much easier to say no.

    I work for a company that has between 200 and 500 emplyees with about 20 sale people who have been pushing to use sf. Thankfully we are a mining company and that makes it very easy to say no now that sf has lauded their silly political views.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: makes it so much easier to say no.

      Good luck with your SAP rollout.

  16. Jonathon Green
    Trollface

    Is it too much to hope...

    ...that a <irony>United</irony> States divided down the middle and teetering on the edge of political violence might have a little less time and energy for getting up in anybody else’s business and offering unsolicited advice on infrastructure procurement?

    1. ecofeco Silver badge

      Re: Is it too much to hope...

      Those chickens have finally come home to roost.

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Biting the hand that feeds IT © 1998–2021