back to article Techies start growing an Alphabet-wide labor union: 200-plus sign up, only tens of thousands more to go

Hundreds of Googlers have started forming a labor union at the internet giant and its Alphabet stablemates. The group launched the Alphabet Workers Union (AWU) on Monday to, among other things, fight for better working conditions for non-full-time workers, to improve the handling of sexual harassment complaints, to protest …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Based on my expereince

    They just jumped from the frying pan into the fire. There's a reason unions in the US have always been run by the mob.

    1. Lars
      Happy

      Re: Based on my expereince

      There is no good reason that unions in the USA have to be run by the mob.

      We tend to accept words like "militant" unions but I would claim you don't get militant on just one side if it's not militant on the other side too.

      I suppose we don't have any word for a company should it oerate in a mob like fashion.

      1. TheMeerkat Silver badge

        Re: Based on my expereince

        Being a mob is the point of union.

        Pay us membership fees or bad things will happen to you. Their sales pitch is not different from protection racket sales pitch.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Based on my expereince

      >There's a reason unions in the US have always been run by the mob.

      Because the mob took over the relevant unions with a staggering display of egregious, bloody violence and murdered anyone who challenged the status quo?

  2. jake Silver badge

    WOW! I'm absolutely shocked ...

    ... that only 200 out of 120,000 high-tech employees (0.166%) are daft enough to want to add yet another level of fucking useless manglement between themselves and Moneybags. Given the number of idiots who voted for Trump, I would have thought the numbers would have been much higher.

    Maybe there is hope for humanity after all!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: WOW! I'm absolutely shocked ...

      There's so many unions in the USA. Some are good and some are payroll tolls, forced or mutual. I'm living proof that without a union of any type, Legal == Ethical, which means that if we were living back in the 1600's, Slavery == Ethical. There can be a lot of good in a union but, like anything else, you have to shop around. As a general rule of thumb, the more a company fights a union with lawyers, the more a union is needed.

      As for the article, there's always a hint of foreshadowing when your union chooses to use the word "labor" as if it is secondary and this union is somehow more. White collar labor exists, yes it's a thing, always has been. In fact today, I consider blue collar labor to be more respectable as today's white collar labor can literally be describing whoever posts a politician tweets... it has fallen that far.

  3. ecofeco Silver badge

    It's a farce

    I've read up some more on this "union" and it's a big nothing. No power or benefit to the employees, just endless posturing for nebulous ideology.

    1. jake Silver badge

      Re: It's a farce

      At a real monetarey cost to the poor saps in the rank & file, of course.

      That pretty much describes unions in the US in general. You Brits would do well to understand this before commentarding.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: It's a farce

        I have a nuclear physics PhD, I've worked at Cambridge and Caltech and I'm in the teamsters because this gov't lab is union.

        1. jake Silver badge

          Re: It's a farce

          I can't help but notice you were apparently coerced into joining the union. Out of curiosity, have the teamsters ever done anything useful for you, other than separating you from your dues?

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: It's a farce

            No it's mostly a pain. I have fixed hours and must clock out by 4:30pm, but in practice I run (*) the computer modelling group and so have lots more work to do out of hours. In theory this would be overtime but that would need agreeing with so many layers of management and union and would have to also be offered to every other union employee on the same terms.

            The big problem is in recruiting, any union member with seniority gets offered the job. In theory I could be kicked down a rung if some union member in another dept with more seniority was qualified.

            Most of the people I hire have math/physics/CS PhD so it't just a matter of making that a requirement and waiting an extra 6weeks while no internal candidates are found.

            (*) except officially I don't because I can't be a manager because physisicts aren't "a profession" so I need to be union regular staff alongside the bin men and canteen staff. My dad worked in the pits in S. Yorks - he would be proud.

    2. ecofeco Silver badge

      Re: It's a farce

      I see the astro-turfers have arrived.

  4. Potemkine! Silver badge

    Unity makes strength

    If the 'don't evil' motto is true, then Google share interests with AWU and should recognize it.

    Wage slaves are on the bad side of the stick when it comes to discussing tough subjects with their company overlords.

  5. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

    the AWU is aiming more toward setting high standards of ethics at the internet giant, ending retaliation against workers, and helping those outside engineering.

    That's the "mission statement" of every union. If they admitted that it was just a way to give the finger to 'the man" while enriching the union organizers they'd have even fewer members.

  6. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    Interesting

    There doesn't seem to be much love for this internal effort to make Alphabet keep to its "founding motto" (I'll leave that point for another discussion).

    I used to be part of a company union. There were no dues and, as we all had work to do, our meetings were kept short and to the point.

    When I left that company, the employee union was still functioning in the same way.

    I fail to see why everyone is apparently assuming that these 200 employees are looking to enrich themselves when they specifically state they are organizing to help non-full time workers and put an end to sexual harassment.

    I find those goals laudable, and it seems that Alphabet is not doing enough on the sexual harassment front - which means it is just another large US company, since they seem to all have that problem.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Interesting

      I fail to see why everyone is apparently assuming that these 200 employees are looking to enrich themselves when they specifically state they are organizing to help non-full time workers and put an end to sexual harassment.

      40 years experience of unions.

      1. myhandler

        Re: Interesting

        What you really mean is 40 years experience of the American dream.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Interesting

          Nope, just UK and EU unions.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Interesting

      I'm not sure they're not doing enough on the sexual harassment front — I'm sure they want to avoid sexual harassment lawsuits as much as the next company, they have mandatory trainings and they fire people who are caught. The biggest complaint the workers seem to have is not that sexual harassment is rampant, it's that Andy Rubin was able to negotiate an exit package for $100M for going away quietly (which didn't work).

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Interesting

        And unions have a really good record of getting rid of old white members who harass young female staff.

        1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

          Re: Interesting

          Why bring race into it? Harassment is an equal opportunities offence.

  7. J.G.Harston Silver badge

    You can already control what you work on. Don't like working on a military contract? Don't work on a military contract.

    I don't like working for tobacco companies. I accomplish that by not working for tobacco companies.

    1. iron

      Exactly. I refuse to work for advertising agencies because the whole industry is evil. I acomplish that by turning down offers of work from them.

      1. doublelayer Silver badge

        That's a good start, but you can also try to convince your current employer not to do things you don't want to do. If your current employer isn't someone you have an objection to, but they have started to consider doing business with someone you have an objection to, you have two options. You could quit immediately so you don't do something you object to, or you could go to your employer and suggest that they might want to consider changing their mind. If they do change their mind, you keep a job, they keep you employed by them, and everyone's avoided a negative. If a lot of your colleagues also object to the considered project, you in combination are more likely to convince the company not to do the objectionable thing.

        This benefits you, obviously, since you don't have to look for a new job if your employer doesn't do what you want, but it also helps your employer. If everyone only operated on the "never work for people you object to but also never complain" principle, the company would likely sign the contract to work for the objectionable place, lose a bunch of employees, end up in a crisis, and have trouble. If they just don't sign the contract, the company is as fine as it was before and can find a less objectionable contract. No guarantee that they'll change their mind, but if you try to suggest that they do, it's possible it ends better. It can't really end worse, as even if they do nothing it's no different from your original plan.

        1. LybsterRoy Silver badge

          I wish I lived in that world.

          "If they just don't sign the contract, the company is as fine as it was before and can find a less objectionable contract."

          or maybe goes bust - all out of work.

          1. doublelayer Silver badge

            That has to be considered, and don't worry, the company will consider it for you. The problem is that the alternative is no different. If the company signs the contract and enough of their staff leave based on the arguments made in the post I replied to, the company might well go bust anyway because they lack the staff to fulfill their requirements and are spending all their time trying to hire new ones. At least if the employees concerned attempt to convince the company that it's a bad idea, the company knows that's going to happen and can decide whether it's worth the risk. There's little downside telling the company "I don't like this idea, and if you do it, I will quit".

  8. Korev Silver badge
    Joke

    Google’s Kara Silverstein, director of people operations

    Google are are operating on their employees?

    No wonder they're trying to unionise...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      re: director of people operations

      This is because "human resources" discriminates against furries, and god forbid they piss in your cornflakes.

      I still think they only changed from calling it the 'personnel department' because it kept being spelled as 'personal department'.

  9. Matthew "The Worst Writer on the Internet" Saroff

    It's Not a Farce, It's a Trap

    I would bet you dollars to navy beans that Google management is behind this.

    Someone is creating a fake union to forestall the possibility of a real union.

    1. ecofeco Silver badge

      Re: It's Not a Farce, It's a Trap

      Pretty much. And look at the downvotes those who have said so have received.

      Leaves no doubt the astro-turfers are here and do not like the curtain being pulled back.

  10. Claptrap314 Silver badge

    Bad info

    "the average Google salary ranges from approximately $28,835 per year for Customer Service Representative to $198,428 per year for Technical Program Manager."

    So, $28835 / year divided by 2040 hours/year is $14.13/hr. According to California, the California minimum wage in 2020 was $13.

    In 2015, I was hired as an SRE III/SWE IV. Salary, bonuses, and stock was >$200k. I have little doubt that our TPM was close to $300k.

    While I do not doubt that sexual harassment occurred and occurs at Google, the claims that it is "rampant" is demonstrably false. My history in the industry has been that such behavior is entirely untolerated at the level of the individual engineers, let alone management. The closest I have to first-hand knowledge of it actually occurring was when a director at IBM was walked out the same day as the alleged event. (And the target got his job.) Yes, my view is not complete. But these claims of "rampant" sexual harassment at Google are an attack on every male engineer there, and I won't stand for that. Even the least professional man I knew reeled it way, way back when a woman joined the team--and kept it back.

    1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

      Re: the claims that it is "rampant" is demonstrably false

      Fine. Demonstrate it then.

      From Uber to IBM to Google, I have the feeling that I have not stopped reading about sexual harassment cases in major US multinationals since about ten years.

      So please, demonstrate that I am wrong.

      That would actually be a relief.

      1. Claptrap314 Silver badge

        Re: the claims that it is "rampant" is demonstrably false

        And how, precisely, is that to be done?

        These claims smear the good name of tens of thousands of people, and when my sample of a hundred or so across a couple of decades results in zero confirmation, and in fact counter-information, I get suspicious. When outrages claims are escalated in the face of skepticism, it's the good faith of the accusers that become questioned.

        Yes, Uber apparently had (and has?) a problem. Unemployed over a year, I won't deal with them. Yes, there are persistent complaints against IBM in the sales force. Yes, there was one high-up at Google that apparently used his position to buy off threats. But neither the IBM nor Google have credible complaints about their engineers being permitted to carry on as claimed by folks who just happen to also be agitating for "social justice".

    2. diodesign (Written by Reg staff) Silver badge

      Alleged "bad info"

      "So, $28835 / year divided by 2040 hours/year is $14.13/hr."

      Which is more than the US federal min wage. These people won't be working in CA, I suspect.

      "In 2015, I was hired as an SRE III/SWE IV. Salary, bonuses, and stock was >$200k. I have little doubt that our TPM was close to $300k."

      Yeah, as the article says, the quoted numbers are base pay. Once you include bonuses and stock, it's going to be a lot more. And sure, $200k base is low when you get up to L6 and long-term L5.

      The quoted base pay range is in the right sort of neighborhood, depending where you are, and experience. You get the gist: in engineering you get paid a lot, and outside engineering, not so much.

      C.

  11. Richard Pennington 1
    Coat

    Alphabet Workers Union

    Shouldn't that be the ABCDE?

  12. Vocational Vagabond
    Trollface

    difficult for Google to crack down on staff . .

    Never mind, a few calls to the Austlralian Liberal party and the AFP can fix that for you, they'll have no issues raiding their offices at all. It is after all the AWU, Right?

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