back to article Elon Musk says he tried to sell Tesla to Apple, which didn’t bite and wouldn't even meet

Elon Musk says he once tried to sell Tesla to Apple, but Cupertino wouldn’t even agree to a meeting with CEO Tim Cook. The Musky one revealed this version of history in a Tweet. During the darkest days of the Model 3 program, I reached out to Tim Cook to discuss the possibility of Apple acquiring Tesla (for 1/10 of our …

  1. AMBxx Silver badge
    Joke

    You read it here first

    How long until Apple claim to have invented the car?

    1. KittenHuffer Silver badge
      Joke

      Re: You read it here first

      And then take other car manufacturers to court for copyright and patent infringement?!?

      1. TeeCee Gold badge

        Re: You read it here first

        "Retroactive IP portfolio management". It's the next big thing.

      2. AMBxx Silver badge

        Re: You read it here first

        Round wheels?

        1. Timmy B

          Re: You read it here first

          "Round wheels?"

          On each corner, even!

          1. myhandler

            Re: You read it here first

            Nah, it'll be a square steering wheel with round corners.

            See 'Austin Allegro'

            1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

              Re: You read it here first

              Why a steering wheel?

              You go where Apple wants you to go

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: You read it here first

              You misspelled it. Famously, the correct spelling is Austin Allaggro

            3. Fred Dibnah

              Re: You read it here first

              Austin called the shape 'quartic'. My dad had one, and he would wedge his elbows in the corners of the wheel so he could relfill his pipe as he drove.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: You read it here first

            Steady on now.

            We all know the wheels and tyres will be a $50,000 add-on to make the product seem cheaper. They will be made of magnesium alloy (even the tyres).

            Those of that cant afford the add-on will have to buy the cheaper magnesium alloy iBricks to stand our Apple cars on when they're on the driveway.

            Also, don't forget the other accessories that will be mandatory because the Apple car won't support third party stuff like:

            Kids seats (the Apple one will be solid magnesium alloy).

            Footwell Mats (magnesium).

            Rear view mirrors (three iPhones).

            A charging cable ($3,000 custom lightning cable).

            A garage renovation with a specific keyed cutout to fit the Apple car to make sure you can't park any other vehicles in it.

            Let's also not forget the drivel we'll hear off fanbois such as:

            Yeah it has much less horsepower, but it's smoother and more optimised (despite metal tyres).

            I only bought it because all my music is on iTunes.

            ...and of course the standard Apple feature set:

            Easy to crack windscreen that can only be repaired at an Apple authorised repair shop.

            Non-removable battery.

            Not user serviceable in any way. Want to top up the screen wash? Go to the Apple shop and by a screenwash module.

            Even though we know the Apple car will be crap, we all want one just so we can drive it through the window of an Apple store to get it to the genius bar at which point we'll climb out and throw the fucking keys in the Genius' face.

  2. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Coat

    Both SX and Tesla have come a very long way in 2 years

    And you do have to wonder, did they do so in spite of the guy leaving to join Apple, or because of it?

    IDK. Tesla's stock price is complete BS. The fantasy it's an IT company, not a car mfg, persists so I guess people will continue to make money off the back of it. Buy, buy buy, bye bye is not a stock tip but perhaps a sensible strategy?

    1. David Webb

      Re: Both SX and Tesla have come a very long way in 2 years

      I wouldn't really call it a car company to be fair. More a battery company, though if they ever go into the Anne Summers category of "things that need batteries", they already have the basic shape with their rockets.

      1. martinusher Silver badge

        Re: Both SX and Tesla have come a very long way in 2 years

        Tesla's not so much a 'thing' company as a technology company. They've got a lot of new technologies from batteries to manufacturing that could be licensed to other companies. (Not Apple, surprisingly, because Apple don't really make stuff -- they get others to make Apple branded products for them.)(So if Apple made a car I'd expect it to be a Tesla with Apple branded software on the display screen.)

        1. Blank Reg Silver badge

          Re: Both SX and Tesla have come a very long way in 2 years

          Given the poor build quality of their vehicles I don't know that anyone would be interested in their manufacturing technology. Even their battery technology is likely going to be eclipsed by the big battery makers now that they have taken an interest in this market.

          1. NeilPost Silver badge

            Re: Both SX and Tesla have come a very long way in 2 years

            Aren’t the Tesla GigiFactories a JV with Panasonic??

            Only the other day they announced the new ‘biscuit tin’ next gen battery.

            1. Blank Reg Silver badge

              Re: Both SX and Tesla have come a very long way in 2 years

              Yes, but Panasonic is hardly the only battery maker out there. Beside the names you know like LG, Samsung, Sony, Toshiba etc, there are also other very large battery makers like CATL and others.

              It's not like these companies have been sitting around doing nothing all these years, they have their own fleet of scientists and engineers figuring out how to push the technology forward.

              GM's new battery, which I think are being developed with LG, are supposed to be much cheaper than any other current tech. And I'm sure they are not alone. Everyone is trying to make the big breakthrough that would make EVs viable for almost anyone. It would surprise me to see companies like Duracell or Energizer jump in to the market.

              Earlier this year Sony showed off an EV at CES. Though I believe it was meant as a showcase for their cameras and sensors, they are actually in a better position to make a car than Apple is as they have a lot of relevant technology already.

      2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: Both SX and Tesla have come a very long way in 2 years

        "they already have the basic shape with their rockets."

        FWIW, Blue Origin have them well and truly beaten in the design stakes. Sadly, they can't get it up as high or for as long as SpaceX although both seem to be doing well at going down after going up.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Both SX and Tesla have come a very long way in 2 years

          You mean Electric Blue Origin.

          1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

            Re: Both SX and Tesla have come a very long way in 2 years

            Ooooooh....The penny just dropped...4 days later. Well played :-)

    2. eldel

      Re: Both SX and Tesla have come a very long way in 2 years

      Heard an interesting (well, I thought so) take on Apple getting into cars the other day. Before the world's biggest cash cow of consumers paying $1000 every other year to replace their pocket computer at huge mark up - the previous biggest cash cow was people paying $000s every 5 years to replace their car.

      Remember the "what's good for GM is good for America" meme?

    3. a pressbutton

      Re: Both SX and Tesla have come a very long way in 2 years

      Buy, buy buy, bye bye is not a stock tip but perhaps a sensible strategy?

      ... actually it is a stock tip but much much more importantly part of a deep commentary on the nature of time

    4. mark9w

      Re: Both SX and Tesla have come a very long way in 2 years

      I agree. I think Elon Musk is a great inventor and he is very clever. I am not so sure whether his fanbois that are buying Tesla stock at any price are that clever.

  3. Chris G Silver badge

    If Apple go into the car biz, I dread to think of the price and maintenance lock in that will go with it.

    Apple workshops, PFY mechanics and less ability to self maintain than a John Deere tractor.

    1. TonyJ Silver badge
      Joke

      "...If Apple go into the car biz, I dread to think of the price and maintenance lock in that will go with it.

      Apple workshops, PFY mechanics and less ability to self maintain than a John Deere tractor.."

      Not to mention "you're driving it wrong"

      1. PhoenixKebab
        Joke

        And the list goes on...

        Don't let it get rained on else your warranty is void.

        Third party child seats are not allowed and Apple has changed the mounting points to make sure.

        Screen-wash is not user replaceable.

      2. Kane Silver badge
        Joke

        Not to mention "you're driving it wrong"

        Rounded Corners!

      3. Martin M

        Butterfly accelerator and brake for the best driver legroom ever! *

        * Requires regular air dusting at 80 degree angle. Replacement only as part of sealed engine/drivetrain unit.

    2. Mage Silver badge
      Joke

      Apple Car

      Any colour as long as it's white.

      Only authorised Apple service.

      Only Apple charging points.

      Rounded corners.

      A notch out of each window.

      No sockets inside.

      Only Apple tyres.

      Special tools for newly invented head profile on all the bolts.

      Glue anywhere possible instead of screws, poppers, clips or bolts.

      No door key, use an iPhone or Apple watch.

      No main key.

      No buttons or knobs, only touch panels.

      No steering wheel, gestures instead.

      No door handles to spoil the smooth lines, use touch gestures.

      Air jets instead of ugly wipers on the windscreen.

      No mirrors, only cameras.

      You've to buy a different version for a bigger battery pack with longer range.

      Also twice as expensive as the most expensive electric cars.

      1. Blofeld's Cat Silver badge
        Devil

        Re: Apple Car

        "... No steering wheel, gestures instead. ... "

        I think I was following one of those recently"

        1. TonyJ Silver badge

          Re: Apple Car

          "...

          "... No steering wheel, gestures instead. ... "

          I think I was following one of those recently"

          ..."

          No, I think they are called BMW's.. ;-)

          1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge
            Black Helicopters

            Re: BMW's?

            Nah. Beemers are so passe these days. The worst company car drivers around here are in Audi's and the bigger and blacker the better for them. I've heard them called 'Panzerwagen's' by other road users.

            1. Martin 47

              Re: BMW's?

              AUDI = Attention Useless Driver Inside

            2. MrBanana Silver badge

              Re: BMW's?

              I agree, the twat in a German car driving at ridiculous speed, with broken indicators, baton has been passed from BMW to Audi. How I long for the days of an aged gent with a hat driving at a ridiculous speed in an Austin Maestro.

          2. mistersaxon

            Re: Apple Car

            Volvo's - especially the SUV models - are pretty aggressive though, as are VW drivers, but Skoda drivers take the biscuit. Scrappy little so-and-so's most of them, perpetually angry that nobody appreciates their parts-bin Audis. SKODA = Sharpen Knife Or Don't Argue (generally good advice anyway, mind you)

      2. Chris G Silver badge

        Re: Apple Car

        @Mage

        QUIET! Don't encourage them.

        Although it's probably all (and more) on a list somewhere in the design department.

      3. TonyJ Silver badge

        Re: Apple Car

        @Mage...I wish I could upvote this more than once.

      4. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
        Joke

        Re: Apple Car

        Just like the 1 button on the (original) iPhone, iCar 1 will have not 4 wheels, but 1 wheel!

        1. Mage Silver badge

          Re: Apple Car

          And then they'll sue that company that makes the one wheeled scooters.

      5. joe bloggs 6
        Facepalm

        Re: Apple Car

        You forgot the Apple approved electricity to charge it...

      6. macjules Silver badge

        Re: Apple Car

        Wheels come as optional extras (£999 each)

        Uses Apple maps, so you will frequently end up several miles from your destination

        High numbers of crashes since users can not switch off Apple notifications while driving.

        The list is endless

      7. GWP

        Re: Apple Car

        First thing anyone does is apply a protector to stop the windscreen smashing if you go over a bump

      8. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Apple Car

        That's a pretty good description of Tesla, no?

      9. lesession

        Re: Apple Car

        Brilliant, multiple upvotes.

        The only other thing will be that it will only go to Apple approved destinations on Apple approved roads

    3. Sceptic Tank Bronze badge
      Devil

      And they will sue other car manufacturers that dare to make products that can navigate rounded corners.

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        My LightCycle should be safe then! Oh, and my mate Automan should be ok in his car too.

    4. Solviva

      Any guarantee work needed will only be done if any damage to the car is first repaired (at your expense)

    5. NeilPost Silver badge

      You won’t need many thing other than 3rd party insurance though with iCar Apple Care ??

  4. Potemkine! Silver badge

    Mine is bigger than yours

    Those tycoons can be really childish sometimes

    1. IGotOut Silver badge

      Re: Mine is bigger than yours

      Shhh. Don't mention children near Peado guy.

  5. Howard Sway

    Offered to sell the company for 1/10 current market value

    I'm not surprised Cook refused to meet after this offer. He may as well have phoned up and said "Hi Tim, the company's in seriously deep shit, and I'm looking for some mug to get some money out of before it collapses". OK, the company got through this and subsequently succeeded, but nobody knew that was going to happen at the time.

    1. Red Ted Silver badge

      Re: Offered to sell the company for 1/10 current market value

      Indeed, at that point in Telsa's past it was loosing more and more money each year.

      From this article the chart indicates that they were burning through money at a prodigious rate. They were up to $14billion in debt and loosing about a $1billion per quarter!

      Even now they are at least returning a profit, but still smaller than the losses they were making two or three years ago.

      1. Getmo

        Re: Offered to sell the company for 1/10 current market value

        Elon is very much a tech guy, in his mind (and possibly done on paper) the only way Tesla & the Model 3 was going to be profitable is if 99.9% of the production was automated. At the time, he was apparently having a lot of trouble teaching robots to weld his new aluminum frame, was even hiring human hands to weld some, to get a few cars out the door and fulfill customer promises.

        This was from the news & twittersphere, so Cook probably knew as well. If there's some fundamental flaw in the company, that's one reason not to meet. But the problem with Tesla at the time was well understood to be purely a technical one. It's one thing if the company has cancerous tumor, it's another if they have a limited runway and the problem can be fixed by throwing more money at it for long enough.

    2. TaabuTheCat

      Re: Offered to sell the company for 1/10 current market value

      Exactly, but as an Apple shareholder I'm disappointed that Tim didn't at least take the meeting to see if there might be a pony somewhere in that mountain of poop. The thing is, no one ever comes looking for a sugar daddy when things are going well. Savvy business people can spot a temporary problem (solved with cash) and recognize an opportunity, and a potential bargain, when others only see risk. But you can't make that assessment if you don't engage. A meeting would have cost Tim nothing but a little bit of his time, so yeah, disappointed he wasn't thinking harder about what to do with that mountain of cash he's sitting on. He pretty much has a fiduciary responsibility to take meetings like that.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Offered to sell the company for 1/10 current market value

        Trouble is he has a bunch of fiduciary reasons not to take the meeting.

        Apple invests and he gets a bunch of lawsuits from Apple shareholders who complain it isn't a good use of their money, from the Fed claiming he is now a monopoly, from the press with "Apple product kills" everytime a car crashes

        If he bought stock personally after the meeting he is in trouble for insider trading and more if Apple does any future deals with Tesla like allowing a Tesla app on the iStore or bundling iTunes with a Tesla

        1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

          Re: Offered to sell the company for 1/10 current market value

          Trouble is he has a bunch of fiduciary reasons not to take the meeting.

          Apple invests and he gets a bunch of lawsuits from Apple shareholders who complain it isn't a good use of their money, from the Fed claiming he is now a monopoly, from the press with "Apple product kills" everytime a car crashes

          Yup. I've had similar situations when competitors wanted meetings. One example, competitor wanted to talk to us (ie sell) about a service we were already developing. Quick check with counsel and advice was to state at the beginning of the meeting that we were competing & minute everything. Meeting continued and explored potential benefits, ie we had infrastructure, they didn't. It didn't go anywhere, but stayed amicable & probably mutually beneficial, independently offering the service to industry. Competition can be good like that.

          But in Apple's case, I guess it got more complex. Apple didn't need Tesla, and if Tesla had gone titsup.com, could potentially pick over the carcass in bankruptcy. In hindsight, an investment could have been a good idea given Tesla's share price now. That would be a bit like when Microsoft invested in Apple when it was in trouble.. But rather upset the Apple fanbois when they found out about that.

          And the future could also be interesting. Personally, I'm not a fan of Tesla's designs, exterior or interior. Apple's a design boutique, so might create something neat there.. Although exterior design's more a function of aerodynamics rather than aesthetics these days.. Cybertruck being an exception to both.

          1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

            Re: Offered to sell the company for 1/10 current market value

            >But in Apple's case, I guess it got more complex.

            Mainly because apple has more money than God, so if I'm a minority shareholder lawyer and I go after them - they might pay me a few $M just to go away.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Offered to sell the company for 1/10 current market value

        No he does not have a fiduciary responsibility, apple is not a hedge fund. As a shareholder you know what business Apple is in.

        Why did Musk even expect a meeting? There was and still is no indication that Apple are actually doing a full car other than rumours. Tesla is only really worth the battery tech. Again going into component manufacturing as a consumer brand like Apple is pointless.

        Musk offering to sell out shows the failed startup exit strategy play. Banks lend so selling out for less than value is a fire sale. Do not forget that Musk hyping on twitter is a key factor in getting tesla to its present value. It will never get this value as a subdivision of a company.

    3. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: Offered to sell the company for 1/10 current market value

      >"Hi Tim, the company's in seriously deep shit, and I'm looking for some mug to get some money out of before it collapses".

      s/Tesla/Next/g worked out for them

      1. doublelayer Silver badge

        Re: Offered to sell the company for 1/10 current market value

        Sort of true, but limited. Apple's cash did bail out the commercial failure that NeXT was going to be, but Apple also did that because they needed something that basically only NeXT could and was willing to provide. Their OS was too limited and, in their mind, in need of replacement. Writing a new one from scratch would have taken too long to finish, so they shopped around for companies which already had a new OS they would view as an improvement. NeXT's eventually won out for various reasons including its Unix compatibility. So Apple was looking for what NeXT could provide at the same time as NeXT was looking for a bunch of needed cash. In Tesla's case, they were the only one looking around; either Apple wasn't really building a car in which case they didn't need Tesla, or they're already working on their own so they didn't need Tesla. Either way, this one is a lot more one-sided.

    4. DS999 Silver badge

      I'm glad he refused to take the meeting

      As an Apple shareholder one of the things I like best is that they only do very small targeted acquisitions. They buy technologies, not customer bases. Acquisitions over $10 billion almost never pay off - just look at the huge number of failed acquisitions in that range then count on one hand the number that worked out well for the buyer.

      Tesla's stock price is massively inflated by fanboys who think Musk is the second coming. If Apple bought them their Tesla shares would be exchanged for Apple shares, and most of them would sell and the Musk premium would evaporate and it would be a terrible purchase in the long run. The fact that Tesla's market cap is higher than the nine largest automakers in the world combined shows out of whack with reality it is. Apple didn't miss out on any gains, because those silly gains were only possible with Tesla as an independent entity.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: I'm glad he refused to take the meeting

        >They buy technologies, not customer bases

        Who could they buy for customer base at this point ?

        Buy BMW in case there is a BMW driver that has never heard of the iPhone and the only way to reach BMW drivers is the next time they buy a new car ?

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Offered to sell the company for 1/10 current market value

      Apple had already been in that position twice. Microsoft bailed them out one of the times.

  6. chivo243 Silver badge
    Windows

    Hmmm

    I have to think "if" Apple does produce an eCar, the design will be Different! Most likely people will love it or hate it, kind of like some bands...

    1. Rameses Niblick the Third Kerplunk Kerplunk Whoops Where's My Thribble?

      Re: Hmmm

      ..."if" Apple does produce an e iCar...

      FTFY

      1. my farts clear the room
        WTF?

        Re: Hmmm

        Isn't an eicar a neutered virus .....?

        Another use of a particularly precise tech term by the plebs!!

        Minger

        Finger

        Nonce

        Eicar

        IP

        The list of misappropriated words just keeps on growing ......

        Who will think of the childrens?

    2. Psmo
      Go

      Re: Hmmm

      Well different is fine as long as they respect accepted limits.

  7. David Pearce

    Tesla is driven by Elon Musk's charisma and little else.

    Apple does not have that anymore since Jobs death

    1. A Non e-mouse Silver badge

      Agree. No mater what you think of Musk & Jobs as individuals (or their companies), as leaders they are/were exceptional.

      1. TonyJ Silver badge

        There's a fair amount to like about Musk, in fairness. Amongst them seems to be a willingness to get the right people in the right jobs to begin to realise his dreams.

        SpaceX is arguably a romping triumph.

        But I still struggle with the other sides of him - the one that calls rescue divers paedophiles and gets away with it. The one that behaves like a spoiled child when he can't get his own way or someone slights him in some way.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          The drive to create a company like Tesla or Apple and part of the charisma that attracts their fans is from very antisocial behaviour

          1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

            It's almost like all famous creators of multi $Bn businesses aren't fluffy bunny-rabbits

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            re: part of the charisma that attracts their fans is from very antisocial behaviour

            Humans are social animals. It's how we thrive.

            Musk is a brat. In America that makes him an idol.

            That's not something to be proud of.

            1. Keven E

              Re: re: part of the charisma that attracts their fans is from very antisocial behaviour

              "...Elon Musk's charisma..."

              Wiping my monitor from the spew...

              ...'charisma' is not the word *that requires.

    2. Andre Carneiro

      I disagree.

      Tesla is indeed driven by his charisma but I bought a Model 3 and I can safely say that, even with all its foibles it's by far the best and most fun car I've ever had.

      When you have a product as good as that, I suspect there are fairly good odds of success.

      I don't buy a lot of the fanboy-istic exaggeration that seems to go with news about Tesla these days (especially in US-centric forums, these lot can be seriously insane), but they really are superb cars and the vast majority of critics have never driven or owned them, which I find interesting.

      And yes, I know about the whole "Full Self Driving" thing, which I didn't spend money on for obvious reasons.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        At this point why would you buy a BMW/Audi/Merc over a Tesla?

        None of the other luxury makers can compete on technology or cool and they can't launch anything electric which disrupts their dealer network. That's why BMW launched the electric noddy car, Audi will do a hybrid LeMans car and MB will ignore it.

      2. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

        "And yes, I know about the whole "Full Self Driving" thing, which I didn't spend money on for obvious reasons."

        Indeed. You want to keep that head on your shoulders.

    3. Robert Grant Silver badge

      Tesla is driven by Elon Musk's charisma and little else.

      I'm pretty sure it takes more than that to launch a line of electric cars. This was ludicrous even only 15 years ago.

    4. mark9w

      Apple was driven by Steve Jobs charisma and massive profits. Tesla has the former. It makes losses in their core business producing cars. It is dependent on the tax credits it can sell to other car manufacturers.

  8. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge

    (not) "Auto Pilot"

    Had Apple bought Tesla, the voice command "Siri, take me home" would cause the vehicle to take you to the nearest Apple Store, and not your own home

    1. sabroni Silver badge

      Re: "Siri, take me home" would cause the vehicle to take you to the nearest Apple Store

      When we all know that means "accelerate into that concrete barrier then burst into flames".

  9. A. Coatsworth
    Gimp

    >>Lithium-ion phosphate earned his scorn on grounds that it can’t be a breakthrough because Tesla already uses it.

    If anything, this lends credibility to the rumor, it is Apple's standard procedure!

    1. Aitor 1 Silver badge

      LiFePO

      Has been used by BYD for many years, yet discounted.. until Tesla invested in china.

  10. mevets Bronze badge

    A Television you say...

    "Apple building a TV rumours. The latter never happened." I think this example is a bit of a give away. I mean, suppose Apple did build a TV, but decided not to produce it. Then the rumour is both true and false.

    Like the square root of one hundred, I suppose it is something we will never know; unless somewhere there is some one who saw the alleged TV or Car for that matter.

    ps: Rogers, a Canadian component of the ruling media duopoly, let verification of the Apple TV leak about 6 years ago via an over-enthusiastic employee as part of some sort of certification ritual.

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: A Television you say...

      >Like the square root of one hundred, I suppose it is something we will never know;

      I think that's +/- 10

      1. mevets Bronze badge

        Re: A Television you say...

        Have you never watched the Simpsons?

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: A Television you say...

          >Have you never watched the Simpsons?

          Not since I was in short trousers / it was actually funny.

          Have I just been wooshed ?

      2. RobThBay

        Re: A Television you say...

        >Like the square root of one hundred, I suppose it is something we will never know;

        That sounds like something trumpo-the-magnificent would say.

  11. smot

    I drive an Apple car

    This has all the same embarrassment as driving a Sinclair C5.

  12. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

    "for 1/10 of our current value"

    And for how much at the then current value?

    Apple isn't run by idiots. Tesla is a good company, but it's not making money. It's valued based on future prospects.

    Apple isn't stupid enough to gamble it all on something like that.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Tesla market crash 2021/2022?

    High chance.

    Cheaper and better options coming on stream soon.

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: Tesla market crash 2021/2022?

      >Cheaper and better options coming on stream soon.

      Apple crash 2021/2022 - other cheaper and better mobile phone makers are coming soon......

      1. katrinab Silver badge
        Meh

        Re: Tesla market crash 2021/2022?

        Cheaper mobile phones - yes they exist

        Better mobile phones - that's a matter of opinion

        But they are not the same phones.

  14. JohnnyHands

    Worked out better for everybody

    Cook knows what he's doing.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    iCar

    Will it be like the Mac Pro? You have to pay (lots) extra for a set of wheels to go with it?

    1. rjed

      Re: iCar

      Some more marketing ideas for Apple biz folks:

      * User needs to pay Apple $99 before the door could be opened.

      * Two years later the car will travel at max 20mph and the user has to upgrade to iCar2pro

      * Silver plated steering wheel for $5999 only

      * iCar can be charged only through special chargers available in Cupertino and in Iceland.

      * iCar chargers won't be sold with the car to save our mother Earth.

  16. Grease Monkey Silver badge

    "During the darkest days of the Model 3 program, I reached out to Tim Cook to discuss the possibility of Apple acquiring Tesla (for 1/10 of our current value). He refused to take the meeting."

    Even if this is true I fail to see the relevance to Apple's announcement they are going to build their own car. The Musky one seems to prevent it as evidence that Apple are either not interested in building cars or are lying about building a car. I don't see how that's the case.

    If Apple are going to build a car then I suspect a lot of the running gear will come from somewhere else this is pretty normal practice. Remember when Tesla basically just added electric power (plus dangerously ungrippy tyres) to a Lotus platform. And if you're on the sort of budget Apple are on you're not going to be looking at buying an iffy startup when they could just go to the biggest and best car manufacturers and buy a platform from them.

  17. Grease Monkey Silver badge

    "Lithium-ion phosphate earned his scorn on grounds that it can’t be a breakthrough because Tesla already uses it. He declared a monocell “is electrochemically impossible, as max voltage is ~100X too low. Maybe they meant cells bonded together, like our structural battery pack?”"

    I don't doubt that Apple may have figured out a way to make a monocell work. Low voltage maybe but one big battery could deliver a lot of current. How about something like a lot of low voltage motors in parallel. The drivetrain would be interesting but not impossible. And then there's the question of whether you had to use electric motors at all. There are potentially other ways of turning electricity into motion, although I can't think of a sensible efficient convenient way of making that work packaged in a car. For example I once saw a boat demonstrated that had a good old fashioned steam turbine where the water was heated electrically. It was only a POC and I can't see it working in a car but it shows that there are alternatives. There are even crazy alternatives like an inverter and transformers. Surely too heavy and bulky not to say inefficient, but again it shows the possibilities.

    However...

    What worries me about a monocell is the fire risk. We have seen problems with runaway in fires in EVs before. Individual cells suddenly igniting sometimes hours after the fire is extinguished. With a monocell holding the same amount of energy as the typical EV battery pack the potential conflagration doesn't bear thinking about.

    1. Richard Boyce

      You repeatedly mention there are inefficient alternatives, as if you think that efficiency isn't critically important.

      In the absence of a room-temperature superconductor, high current is always going to mean high resistance and low efficiency.

    2. sebacoustic
      Boffin

      a steam engine with an electric boiler is bound by the Carnot efficiency limit so not a good idea, without even using as much as the back of an envelope for calculation.

      They could use a DC-AC converter to step up the voltage maybe... you know, a bit like Tesla's big idea (Nikolai, that is). You don't need 1000s of cells though, it's not as if all the cells in a Tesla power pack are in series.

  18. Montreal Sean

    DeLorean has prior art

    If Apple ever do build cars they'll have to license tech from DeLorean and Doc Brown.

    They had a Time Machine and had Lightning charging too.

  19. EmilPer.

    Lithium-ion phosphate

    Is that LiFePo ?

    If it is it I don't see how it makes for cars, high endurance but low voltage.

  20. Aqua Marina

    Musk needs to be careful when making comments about apple, or he may find that their phones no longer pair up over bluetooth to Tesla cars.

  21. WeaselBreath

    Should not Apple be trying to push themselves off on Tesla? But the rest of the worlld is much smarter?

  22. mark9w

    That tells you everything about the valuation of Tesla on the stock market. If Apple was not willing to buy Tesla at 1/10th the price, they think that they can replicate their products much cheaper.

    If Apple (or any other tech company) did think they could create a dominant market position taking over Tesla, they probably would have. That is what the tech industry does.

    But I don't think Tesla can make the car industry much less competitive. It is not so difficult to build an electric car. And cars will be much, much cheaper once a large percentage is electric. Maybe if you want an Apple-equivalent in a car, you will buy a Tesla. Most people will buy the cheaper cars.

  23. Hubert Thrunge Jr.
    FAIL

    Battery life

    Apple's reputation for long battery life isn't going to help them much....

    Start the journey with a 300 mile range and 20 miles in it says you have 30 miles left, then suddenly dies on you...

    You plug it in, but it takes four hours to get to 1%.....

  24. Kevin Fairhurst

    From what we know of Musk...

    he was only setting the meeting up so he could leak about it on Twitter to artificially boost their share price ... investors think “oh Apple might buy them” and jump aboard.

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