back to article President Trump's rushed-through H-1B techie visa crackdown halted by federal judge

A judge in northern California has struck down the Trump administration’s latest effort to put restrictions on H-1B work visas, making plain his irritation that the case is a virtual repeat of a previous effort that was also struck down. “The court once again confronts a challenge to the administration’s assertion that the H- …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    This will end up in SCOTUS

    The issue is that Trump is right.

    There's more to the story and its not US workers harmed.

    The companies are gaming the system and it also hurts the H1B workers.

    The current system is a mess. Needs a complete overhaul.

    But look at it this way... try being a Yank trying to get a work visa in the UK.

    1. Joe W Silver badge

      Re: This will end up in SCOTUS

      Companies gaming the system has been going on for longer than the pandemic - as supporters of this and similar changes in immigration rules often point out. Thus it is not an ermergency, and the correct processes should be followed.

      That's all, and that was what the decision was (largely) based on, as I understand it. It is not that the system was not in need of an overhaul, or that companies were not gaming the system, or any of the things you and others allude to (which might be true - but that is not the point here). The point is that it is the role of the legislative to pass these rules, and their duty to follow the processes laid down to stop abuse of power. If they don't, the judicative must decide against the new rules.

      Separation of Power.

      1. TheMeerkat Silver badge

        Re: This will end up in SCOTUS

        The “correct process” means it will be Biden who is to introduce it.

        Why would he do it? He is firmly on the side of the rich establishment. He will listen to companies, not employees.

      2. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

        Re: This will end up in SCOTUS

        I have to agree. Curtailing overreach by the executive branch (which has expanded its power under other administrations too - Obama's endorsement and use of Yoo's foul application of the "unitary executive" theory to permit any sort of abuse is a glaring example) and enforcing the rule of law is more important than tinkering with the H1-B system, however broken the latter might be. Congress has patently failed to do its job for the past two decades, so the judicial branch and the private sector are the only restrictions on the executive abrogation of power.

        1. handle handle

          Re: This will end up in SCOTUS

          It's been closer to four decades ...

    2. Kevin McMurtrie Silver badge

      Re: This will end up in SCOTUS

      Trump's standard solution is to swiftly destroy all things in need of repair. While I don't like things being left in disrepair, I'd prefer a less lazy approach. The abuses of the H-1B system are so simple routine that they should be easy to fix. I can only assume that they're not fixed because money.

      1. martinusher Silver badge

        Re: This will end up in SCOTUS

        The H1B is abused, we all know that, but rather than spending the time and effort of fixing it through Congress we've had this lazy "slash and burn" approach using administrative changes. This is widely condemned because it doesn't fix anything, it just makes the visa holders lives' difficult and uncertain.

        (Its might seem a bit late for the Trump administration to be working on new rules, especially controversial ones, but it appears that there may be a method to the madness. Journalists have noticed that the outgoing Trump administration is bequeating the incoming Biden administration a huge heap of problems, many which will take a lot of time and effort to sort out. A true poison pill of a transfer of power.)

        1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: This will end up in SCOTUS

          "the outgoing Trump administration is bequeating the incoming Biden administration a huge heap of problems"

          AFAICS it's been doing that for the last four years.

      2. iron

        Re: This will end up in SCOTUS

        > Trump's standard solution is to swiftly destroy all things.

        FTFY

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: This will end up in SCOTUS

          I'm not defending ANY politician (ever), but I'd rather have things destroyed than let them be "fixed" by their corrupt creators, which are MegaCorps. Notice that there is several TRILLION dollars worth of companies involved, do you really think they'll ever let anyone fix this? But in order to further corrupt fix something, it must exist.

          Honestly, I think when it comes to employment and US companies that anytime you see this much $$$ trying to stop or change something, it can't be for the better. In fact, I'd wager that nobody can give 1 positive example with this much $$$ behind it in the last 40 years.

          To keep or not to keep something forever broken?

        2. zuckzuckgo

          Re: This will end up in SCOTUS

          >> Trump's standard solution is to swiftly destroy all things.

          That's just the first step in his "management" style. The next step is to make sure he profits from any solution that replaces it, either directly or indirectly through his business minions.

    3. Lars Silver badge
      Happy

      Re: This will end up in SCOTUS

      As long as the USA is too dumb to take education seriously the H-1B will remain the quick and easy solution.

      Be happy there are still people willing to move to the USA, why, for instance, did Elon Musk move to the USA, born in South Africa..

      This according to Musk. "I remember thinking and seeing that America is where great things are possible, more than any other country in the world.".

      1. Someone Else Silver badge
        Happy

        Re: This will end up in SCOTUS

        As long as the USA is too dumb to take education seriously [...]

        Tee-hee. I saw what you did there....

    4. veti Silver badge

      Re: This will end up in SCOTUS

      The H1B is an invitation to abuse, and it's not surprising that it is abused. The whole system should simply be abolished.

      But that's not the issue here. This judgment is about whether the pandemic justifies rushing the change through as an emergency measure, rather than allowing for Congress and others to debate it.

      Nobody ever thought it would stand. As the judge notes, it's already been thrown out once, and nobody put much work into updating the justification this time. The only reason Trump attempted it was that he loves it when the courts shoot him down, it lets him pose as a populist outsider, rather than the utterly corrupt kleptocrat that he is.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The issue is that Trump is right.

      AC? Yeah, i wouldn't want that sentiment attached to my professional career either!

      But i guess if you spout enough random bollocks you eventually arrive at a truth, a stopped clock and all that....

    6. macjules

      Re: This will end up in SCOTUS

      "try being a Yank trying to get a work visa in the UK"

      Not a problem at this end regarding visas. Provided you meet all the criteria then an initial 18 month work and residence permit can be issued within 2 days. You don't even have to print anything off - it is all dealt with upon arrival in the UK.

      Of course whether you have the actual experience necessary to do the job is a different matter.

      1. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
        Joke

        Re: This will end up in SCOTUS

        You may even get to accompany the gros fromage of Londinium on foreign business trips!

    7. Filippo Silver badge

      Re: This will end up in SCOTUS

      You haven't read the article carefully, right? The problem here isn't that Trump cannot reform H-1B in this fashion. The problem is that he can't do that *without consulting the public*.

      H1-B may or may not be in need of reform, and the reform may or may not look like what Trump wanted to do; that's not the point, the point is that it's not an emergency, no matter how hard you squint at it, so you can and you must take the time to discuss it openly before acting.

      1. Strahd Ivarius Silver badge

        Re: This will end up in SCOTUS

        Should have sent the issue to the FCC then, to ensure that after the public has been consulted the result is ignored...

    8. DS999 Silver badge

      Re: This will end up in SCOTUS

      The issue is that Trump is right.

      While I agree with the idea of raising the wage ceiling on H1Bs so they really do have to have some sort of specialized knowledge to be worth hiring and have said that for the past 20+ years, Trump is still wrong.

      He thinks he's a pre Magna Carta king, and can issue executive orders for anything he wants. This is something congress will have to do, and before it reaches the Supreme Court Biden will be president and his administration is unlikely to fight for a Trump executive order.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Trump

    All this losing!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Trump

      I WON THAT COURT CASE! BY A LOT!!!!

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Trump

      Well, Trump loves the uneducated. He can't have it both ways!

      1. bleedinglibertarian

        Re: Trump

        Trump loves everyone but not the idiot libtards. libtards just need shot. :)

        1. Someone Else Silver badge

          Re: Trump

          You're Joe DiGenova, and I claim my $5!

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Unhappy

    Elected govt vs billionaire big tech owners....

    So in a battle between the US govt who wants to provide jobs for US citizens and a small group of absurdly rich tech owners who want to replace US citizens with cheap and malleable imported labour, getting richer still, big tech has won. Trump for once did the right thing and was struck down.

    Why is this “victory” cause for celebration?

    1. sabroni Silver badge
      Stop

      Re: Elected govt vs billionaire big tech owners....

      Typical woke liberal bleating! The problem is you Americans clearly want too much money. If you'd work for a sensible wage the bosses wouldn't need to bring in foreigners.

      There's a name for this "workers before management" bullshit, SOCIALISM.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Elected govt vs billionaire big tech owners....

        Were you stroking your big hard gun when you wrote this, sabroni? Please be careful it doesn't go off unexpectedly.

        1. sabroni Silver badge

          Re: Were you stroking

          At least my gun can still get hard. You're too worried about offending someone to get a hard on. I mean gun.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Happy

            Re: Were you stroking

            At least my gun can still get hard. You're too worried about offending someone to get a hard on. I mean gun.

            Calmdown everyone. The penis mightier thanthe sword.

        2. Graham Cobb Silver badge

          Re: Elected govt vs billionaire big tech owners....

          Whooosh!...

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Elected govt vs billionaire big tech owners....

          ...and of course watch out for that splash damage!

        4. Someone Else Silver badge

          Re: Elected govt vs billionaire big tech owners....

          Were you stroking your big hard gun when you wrote this, sabroni? Please be careful it doesn't go off unexpectedly.

          Doesn't sabroni mean "small hands" in some eastern European dialect?

  4. tekHedd

    Where were they before now?

    The skeptic in me wants to know: Where was this "blocking Trump's overreach" up until now? Suddenly, when it affects big-corp's ability to get cheap labor, we have action. Funny how well the system works when it's working for them and not us.

  5. bleedinglibertarian

    corrupt liberal judges

    Silly how corrupt liberal judges in the hell of California can impede intelligent processes. I remember California threatening to leave the Union and they still haven't. It's a darn shame.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: corrupt liberal judges

      Federal court, so Federal judges, so appointed by the president, so California has nothing to do with the case except geography. Diaper Don had 4 years to sort out H1B visas. There seems to be a degree of clarity in how to reform them to prevent abuses. So what was he doing? I guess between tweeting, golfing and nap time there wasn't time to actually do anything?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: corrupt liberal judges

      California props up you hillbillies

    3. Cederic Silver badge

      Re: corrupt liberal judges

      The issue here isn't whether the H-1B visa scheme is shit (which it is) or whether it's abused by tech companies (it is) or whether Americans suffer as a result (they do).

      It's whether legal procedures that also protect Americans were followed in the attempt to change it.

      The intelligent process is getting Congress to change the law.

      1. handle handle

        Re: corrupt liberal judges

        Congress was supposed to fix this back in the 80's. They haven't. The "Process" is owned by BigCorp and the American workers just gets told to bend over and take it!

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Trollface

      Re: hell of California?

      California seems a mighty popular place for "hell". 12% of the US population live there and the proportion is rising.

      I am sure it is not heaven, but if it was "hell" then I would expect to see a substantial proportion of the population migrating to other states. Or are they even worse?

  6. Mark 85

    Xenophobia at the highest leve.

    Pure and simple to understand this proposed change. Trump hates foreigners who come to the States. Yet, his hotels use them for a serious percentage of his workers because they will work for less money and thus more profit for him.

    Don't believe it? Go do some research on his statements about immigration and then look at his business practices for the workers.

  7. EnviableOne

    The system is broken, but....

    the system may be broken, but it has been for a long time.

    the Trump admin's case that this is an emergency, so they dont need to consult, is laughable, and the court got it right.

    if theyd started this earlier in the administration rather than all the wall nonsense and muslim bans, they might have actually done some good.

    if they had done their due consultation, this system might actually have worked, Higest paid or most needed proffesions prioritised requirement of sallary at 110-115% of market rate for the role, and wide industry acceptance and it would have sailed through.

    rushing through with wildy unworkable limts and no consultation, its a joke.

  8. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge

    Up yours...

    Brings to mind...

    The front page in The Sun from 30 years ago...

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/politics/116590/europes-dream-it-crumbled-and-died/

    That was 1st November 1990. We'll find out if it was all worth it in one month's time on 2nd January 2021

    1. First Light

      Re: Up yours...

      Hilarious!

      Especially the 2015 commentary about the "failed currency of the Euro." If it has failed, why is the biggest portion of the City's financial dealings Euro clearing and why is the City so scared that it is going back to continental Europe?

  9. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
    Coat

    Carry On

    Up The Khyber

    The Khasi of Kalabar: May the benevolence of the god Shivoo bring blessings on your house.

    Sir Sidney Ruff-Diamond: And on yours.

    The Khasi of Kalabar: And may his wisdom bring success in all your undertakings.

    Sir Sidney Ruff-Diamond: And in yours.

    The Khasi of Kalabar: And may his radiance light up your life.

    Sir Sidney Ruff-Diamond: And up yours.

  10. boris9k3
    Headmaster

    I have worked as engineer in silicon valley for the big players and small ones. H1B visa's are cheap, exploitable labor plain and simple. Granted I have only been watching for decades but what do eyes and ears on the ground know that the k street boys and girls dont If you want to see the "valley" get richer open the h1b valve up ... workers will not see a penny of it.

  11. TheMeerkat Silver badge

    This is a funny one.

    Many in IT industry understand how H1B is exploited. But many hate Trump. So where they will be on this issue?

    Apparently the hatred is more important for many people...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      A funny one

      Pehaps many people in the IT industry feel strongly about many views (including, but not limited to, H1B and Trump), and so make their final decision based on multiple, competing factors?

      Perhaps the number of single-issue voters is lower than you thought?

    2. boris9k3

      If you think the Visa system is bad for the tech workers and feel threatened to keep your job BUT still hate trump and would support political "leaders" that will allow tech companies to keep the h1b doors wide open I am not sure how to advise you. My humble opinion is if the political leader helps me keep a job to feed my family I would consider holding my nose to support them. Seem like obvious choice to me but I am a hillbilly that voted for trump WTF do I know.

  12. joeydiggs

    Looks like DRUMPF got an "Indian Burn" with this bye bye orange man!

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