back to article Apple's global security boss accused of bribing cops with 200 free iPads in exchange for concealed gun permits

Apple's head of global security tried to bung cops hundreds of free iPads in exchange for special gun permits, it is claimed. Thomas Moyer, 50, was last week charged [PDF] with bribing senior officers in Santa Clara county, home to Apple's Cupertino headquarters. According to prosecutors, between February and August last year …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    That's not a concealed weapon, officer - I'm just not carrying it right

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Is that a concealed weapon in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        It's my erection, I'm happy to see you and I'd be even more happy if we were naked - is an example of a reply you would very rarely ever say to anyone.

    2. Christoph

      Is that a concealed weapon, or are you just pleased to see me?

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Why didn't he just buy out of state?

    I heard that it's pretty easy to do at a gun show, no questions asked.

    1. Curtis

      Re: Why didn't he just buy out of state?

      It's not a matter of "buying", which is a whole other level of issues. (You cannot purchase a handgun from an out of state dealer, it has to be shipped to one in state to perform the necessary background checks)

      This is a matter of carrying a handgun on your person in your day-to-day life. Some states take a "must issue" stance in which the state must issue the permit unless the background check fails. Some take a "may issue" stance in which the local LEO (Head Law Enforcement Office) can choose to approve or deny. In "may issue" jurisdictions, there's a lot of talk about the system being biased for those who are politically connected or willing to offer something "under the table" to get the permits approved.

      And in the US, any firearm purchased from a federally licensed dealer must perform a background check (that involves querying a national crime database) to complete the transfer. A private party can sell a firearm to another private party, but if the seller is caught "in the business of selling firearms" they get hammered pretty severely.

      This allows someone to sell a weapon they no longer want causally, without having to bear the expense of going through an FFL to complete the transaction. Since this would involve transferring the weapon to the FFL, who then has to document the weapon make, model, serial number, etc, and then that FFL transferring it again to another person, it creates a bunch of paperwork that the FFL is required to keep for 10 years.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Holmes

        Re: Why didn't he just buy out of state?

        I hope that someone is going after the Undersherrif and the other law enforcement leader mentioned in the article, for requiring a corrupt quid-pro-quo in order to issue Apple the concealed carry permits.

        (Sherlock, because he always got Watson to handle any concealed carry required by their cases. Maybe not the mark of a great friend or employer, but a shrewd legal risk management strategy.)

        1. Dave 126 Silver badge

          Re: Why didn't he just buy out of state?

          > I hope that someone is going after the Undersherrif and the other law enforcement leader mentioned in the article,

          They have been under investigation for two years. FWIW, Moyer's lawyer claims he is just collateral damage in a feud between the police chief and the district attorney. All accounts suggest the bribe was asked for rather than offered, and that the iPads weren't delivered.

        2. Dave 126 Silver badge

          Re: Why didn't he just buy out of state?

          I'm assuming you're referring to the recent BBC TV series Sherlock, where yes, Watson's possession of a handgun is illegal.

          However, in the original stories, set between 1880 and 1914, Dr Watson was legally entitled to carry a handgun. Anybody was, if they paid a fee at a post office.

          1. Trigonoceps occipitalis Silver badge

            Re: Why didn't he just buy out of state?

            The last figures I saw said that the UK Home Secretary had issued just six permits for the use of self defence firearms to private individuals - think of people such as Steak-knife.

            Maybe Dr John Watson was one of the half dozen?

      2. Tom 38 Silver badge

        Re: Why didn't he just buy out of state?

        This allows someone to sell a weapon they no longer want causally, without having to bear the expense of going through an FFL to complete the transaction.

        "Casually" selling a gun? God forbid that any discomfort is placed on someone buying or selling guns casually.

        It does seem nuts that there is more regulation on buying/selling a car than a gun.

        1. onemark03 Bronze badge

          Re: Why didn't he just buy out of state?

          The argument will be that cars aren't mentioned in the US Constitution.

        2. s2bu

          Re: Why didn't he just buy out of state?

          As a FFL myself, I can safely say you’re wrong. The handbook is almost the size of an old fashioned telephone book, and that only covers federal law. Add state, county, and city laws and you’re drowning in regulation.

      3. Tom 7 Silver badge

        Re: Why didn't he just buy out of state?

        I was under the impression you can buy a gun at a 'Fair' without any need for registration or anything else.

        1. Tom 7 Silver badge

          Re: Why didn't he just buy out of state?

          Under federal law, private-party sellers are not required to perform background checks on buyers. Private sellers are also not required to record the sale or ask for identification.

          Apparently you have to be from the state the gun show is in - but the above seems to suggest that the seller doesnt have to check.

      4. J. Cook Silver badge

        Re: Why didn't he just buy out of state?

        The firearm laws in the US vary state by state; it's... complicated. The federal level laws are not much better, and some of the 'laws' aren't laws, but rulings by the Beureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (BATFE, or just ATF) which have the same force as laws, but are subject to the whims of whoever is doing the enforcement. :(

        Going out of state to purchase the firearms and traveling back in state is... not a good idea. quite likely illegal, actually. (as noted, it's complicated.)

        1. s2bu

          Re: Why didn't he just buy out of state?

          Going out of state to buy a handgun is definitely illegal (for both parties). For long guns it depends on which states.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Why didn't he just buy out of state?

      Depending on where you live in the US, buying a gun in one State and even just bringing it into another State can result in serious jail time.

      For example, in my State (Massachusetts), everyone who is not a felon can pretty much get a FIC (Firearms Identification Card) after taking a safety course. An FIC allows you to purchase a long gun in State. Getting a License to Carry is required to buy a handgun & requires approval by your town police department. But with a the very limited exceptions of "attending a competition, or attending a meeting or exhibition or organized group of firearm collectors or coming to Massachusetts for the purpose of hunting", it's a mandatory year in jail of you come in with a gun from out of State, and even then, they better be unloaded and locked in a case not accessible to the owner. A nonresident cannot carry a firearm on his person in Massachusetts for protection unless he or she is licensed to carry a firearm in Massachusetts. In other words, Massachusetts doesn't recognize other States gun permits.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Why didn't he just buy out of state?

        In other words, Massachusetts doesn't recognize other States gun permits.

        I get the feeling that the whole state interplay for something that ought to be managed at federal level is left in play to maintain loopholes. It's the same with keeping a register for cops that have been booted out of their job - they just move state and start again.

        1. onemark03 Bronze badge

          Re: Why didn't he just buy out of state?

          States' rights.

          (Sigh.)

          PS:

          But you're right.

          1. Getmo

            Re: Why didn't he just buy out of state?

            States rights is a double-edged sword, it does good and bad. In practice, it makes law evolution faster because states get to practice and "play out" certain changes in law while everyone else looks on patiently.

            For example, marijuana is still illegal federally and can carry serious criminal penalties. But after this election I think the number of states with medicinal mj is now over 50%, and there's a dozen or so now with recreational weed legalized. Back under the Bush presidency this became a hot topic after California made medical marijuana legal. Local authorities would issue grower & seller permits, then the DEA or FBI would raid their business and arrest everyone involved.

            After a point the White House just decided to turn the other cheek, wait and see what plays out, and that's the state we're still in today.

            Another great example is gay marriage: started at the states level, then once others realized it didn't cause the apocalypse, they followed shortly. Ending in a Supreme Court case that made it legal federally.

            It cuts both ways, but personally I like the extra freedom in this system. E.g. here in Arizona few years back, we made medicinal mj and concealed-carry without a permit (no CCW license required anymore) legal in the same year. And this year, we made recreational marijuana legal.

            1. DS999

              Re: Why didn't he just buy out of state?

              People who don't live in the US will never understand it - in most countries you have national laws and while your city may have some additional laws they are about small things like where you can park and if women can be topless in public not stuff like guns, abortion, voting and marriage. There is probably more harmony in the laws between different countries in the EU than there is between the 50 states in the US.

              1. katrinab Silver badge

                Re: Why didn't he just buy out of state?

                Gun laws are less strict in Northern Ireland than the rest of the UK. Abortion was more strict until recently, and they were the last to get equal marriage. Voting laws in Scotland are different for local elections, though the same for Westminster elections, and for EU elections when that was a thing.

            2. katrinab Silver badge
              Boffin

              Re: Why didn't he just buy out of state?

              Re the gay marriage thing, the fact that it was a Supreme Court ruling means it was actually legalised in 1868 when the 14th Amendment was enacted, and people had been breaking the law for 200+ years by denying these marriages.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Why didn't he just buy out of state?

            States Rights: Under the US Constitution, anything not specifically called out as something the Federal Government is in charge of is left to the States.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    This smells a lot like Silicon Valley hypocrisy to me...

    Publicly supporting tougher gun controls on the one hand, but making sure you've got the necessary firepower should you happen to encounter a nasty bunch of out of control rioters (that you also encourage).

    Guns for me, but not for thee!

    1. Blazde Bronze badge

      Re: This smells a lot like Silicon Valley hypocrisy to me...

      Because Thomas Moyer and 'Silicon Valley' are one big homogenous political entity?

      His background in Law, Compliance and further back the Navy sits at odds with bribery, so definitely some personal hypocrisy (if the allegations are true). I really doubt he's been on the passionate side of many riots though.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: This smells a lot like Silicon Valley hypocrisy to me...

        Because Thomas Moyer and 'Silicon Valley' are one big homogenous political entity?

        Pretty much. All the major tech outfits sit on the extreme liberal side of the political spectrum and demand cult-like devotion from their employees. Any found guilty of wrong think are summarily cancelled.

  4. spold Silver badge

    Failure to understand fundamental motivations of your audience...

    200 iPads - fail!

    200 doughnuts - success!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Failure to understand fundamental motivations of your audience...

      iPads taste terrible..

      1. Flywheel Silver badge
        Joke

        Re: Failure to understand fundamental motivations of your audience...

        Heh, you're just not eating it right ...

    2. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge

      Re: Failure to understand fundamental motivations of your audience...

      New old sayings...

      "Cross my palm with iPads"

      1. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge

        Re: Failure to understand fundamental motivations of your audience...

        An Apple a day keeps the Doctor Cops away

  5. Winkypop Silver badge
    Alert

    Send money, guns and lawyers

    ...with iPads

    (Apols to Warren Zevon)

  6. osakajin Silver badge

    Head of ethics. Says it all really.

  7. dol

    "10,000 songs in your pocket."

    "10,000 songs in your pocket." .............. and one concealed weapon.

    1. Snapper

      Re: "10,000 songs in your pocket."

      'I shot the Sheriff'

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "10,000 songs in your pocket."

        '.. but I didn't shoot the deputy'

        Christ I'm old.

        1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

          Re: "10,000 songs in your pocket."

          As requested ;)

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "10,000 songs in your pocket."

        "But his captain wanted more than he"

  8. IGotOut Silver badge

    Who do these cops think they are?

    Politicians?

    1. Mage Silver badge
      Coffee/keyboard

      Re: Who do these cops think they are?

      Actually many senior US cops are purely politicians. Many Sheriffs are elected and need not have served in the Police. Also possibly Coroners and other top legal positions.

      1. lglethal Silver badge
        Facepalm

        Re: Who do these cops think they are?

        Wait a coroner can be elected? Imagine the Autopsy report

        "Well, the squiggly bit no longer appears to be connected to the bulgy bit. Hmmm. Death from natural causes".

        1. GlenP Silver badge

          Re: Who do these cops think they are?

          That's confusing Coroners, who are typically qualified in law, with Medical Examiners (US) or Pathologists who carry our autopsies.

          1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

            Re: Who do these cops think they are?

            Coroners merely certify the cause of death, so it makes sense that they are political.

            This protestor obviously died of an unbalance of humours while being tazered and this black guy shot himself before hiding the weapon.

            1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

              Re: Who do these cops think they are?

              and this black guy shot himself five times in the back before hiding the weapon.

              FTFY

              1. The Oncoming Scorn Silver badge
                Holmes

                Re: Who do these cops think they are?

                Propped up in his chair with a knife protruding from his back.

                Avon: That's a difficult way to commit suicide.

                Dayna: Maybe he was cleaning it and it went off.

          2. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
            Thumb Up

            Re: Who do these cops think they are?

            Medical Examiners (US) or Pathologists who carry our autopsies.

            Quincy M.E.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvF0IAJyFCw

    2. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge

      Re: Who do these cops think they are?

      Talking of politicians,

      "Gun-toting congresswoman-elect may carry Glock at Capitol"

      An aide to a firearms-toting congresswoman-elect says she has already asked Capitol Police about carrying her weapon on Capitol grounds once she’s sworn into office

      https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/guntoting-congresswomanelect-may-carry-glock-at-capitol-weapon-capitol-police-lawmakers-congress-office-b1760583.html

      1. Nunyabiznes

        Re: Who do these cops think they are?

        Prudent to ask first, heh?

        1. Claptrap314 Silver badge

          Re: Who do these cops think they are?

          Yeah. After the '94 election, a man from West Virginia showed up to have a chat with his new congresscritter. This was before the metal detectors were installed. He walks up and asks the guard "where do I check my gun?" Of course, there were a couple more in his pickup in the parking lot. Said congresscritter managed to get him out of jail & charges dropped and arraigned to meet with him at his district office.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Back in the UK

    4-12 months to process an application to own a shotgun (not a rifle and handguns are pretty much outright banned), requiring a police interview, background checks from a referee, doctors report into your mental health and an inspection of your physical gun storage security.

    It's even more rigourous to own a rifled weapon (firearm) and in Scotland you even need a licence for a low powered air weapon (high power count as firearms proper).

    I still think we're doing it right.

    1. andy gibson

      Re: Back in the UK

      And when we have to deal with any nasties, our resourcefulness knows no bounds

      https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/19/world/europe/london-bridge-narwhal-tusk-pardon.html

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Back in the UK

      You're talking about honest and responsible gun owners though. People who clean and store their guns in locked cabinets. People use them at their local target shooting range, or on licensed hunting trips away in the forest.

      The NRA is more about druggies and teens who want to shoot up the local convenience store. They don't have the time for all that paperwork and seven day cooling off stuff...

      1. Claptrap314 Silver badge

        Re: Back in the UK

        Nice one, AC. Beautiful bit of contrafactualism them. Got any more?

      2. J. Cook Silver badge

        Re: Back in the UK

        "The NRA is more about drugs and prostitutes for themselves. They don't have the time for all that paperwork and seven day cooling off stuff..."

        FTFY.

    3. Peter2 Silver badge

      Re: Back in the UK

      I regret to say that you are slightly off. Your Doctor doesn't give a report into your mental health; they just confirm to plod that you haven't come to see them for any mental health issues.

      A flag is also put on your medical records that if you give your doctor (or anybody at the practice) any concern that you might be playing with less than a full deck that they should tell the police that they feel that your weapons, ammunition and explosives (if applicable) should be confiscated pending a full mental health evaluation.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Back in the UK

        "confirm you haven't come to see them for mental health issues"

        What do you think a mental health report would contain? I often hear excuses of shooters who "forgot to take their meds"...

        1. Peter2 Silver badge

          Re: Back in the UK

          A Mental Health Report is generally considered to be report on the result of a Mental Health Assessment, which is designed to establish if somebody is nuts to a certifiable standard, if you'll forgive the pun.

          A letter to your GP saying "Dr, Patient X has applied for a shotgun cert, do you have any medical objections based on their past medical history?" is not a mental health report, although it would have the obvious effect of weeding out certain types of nutter who have been admitting they have problems to their GP.

          My opinion may be coloured by the fact that I haven't met my last three GP's and I last visited the practice something like eight years ago for a pack of antibiotics to deal with a serious infection.

          If a similar patient had of turned into a manic depressive, psychotic paranoiac who was self medicating drink and drugs and thought their GP was "out to get them" then while an actual mental health report would show this, past medical records would not.

          Whilst we do have more robust safeguards against weapons ownership than people in the US have it is easier to obtain and retain a SGC, FAC or Acquire & Keep than I think you think it is if your expecting any kind of real mental health report.

    4. werdsmith Silver badge

      Re: Back in the UK

      I was a shotgun licence holder when I did regular clay shooting. My police visit was an inspection of the gun cabinet and a check that the house was tidy and unwashed dishes weren’t piling up in the kitchen.

      As a member of the clay shooting club, we were invited by the local police to their gun range for a safety and gun security talk with a hand gun demonstration. I was given this little box of 12 .22 handgun rounds for my turn. Unfortunately on the first shot the gun action cut a gash in my thumb making it bleed everywhere and I was driven in a police vehicle to A&E for stitches. Next morning at home when I put my jacket on, the remaining 11 .22 rounds were still in my pocket.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Back in the UK

        It is unlikely the police range would not have known. They would have counted the live rounds and empty shells in and out. Most responsible ranges have a system like that.

        They were probably concentrating on the medical issue first.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Back in the UK

        "we were invited by the local police to their gun range for a safety and gun security talk with a hand gun demonstration. I was given this little box of 12 .22 handgun rounds for my turn. Unfortunately on the first shot the gun action cut a gash in my thumb making it bleed everywhere"

        Poor instruction/supervision of a novice shooter. It's natural to cross your left thumb over your right thumb when holding a pistol. Unfortunately, if you are shooting a semi-automatic pistol, the slide will want to occupy part of that space while cycling. If you have small hands and are very lucky, you'll just discover a small cut after a few rounds.if you have big hands/bad luck/loose grip you could probably sprain or break your thumb.

        They were smart enough to have you load only one round. Doing so meant that any flailing around or dropping was done with an unloaded weapon.

        Omitting instructions for left thumb placement could have been a ploy as well. Instead of having a pleasant memory of an afternoon at the range, your entire group has a bloody memory.

  10. 45RPM Silver badge

    ‘Head of Security’. You can see why the wrong person, given this title, might have gotten carried away as he did - but this is a fail for Apple’s culture, I’d say. How did he even get past interview?

    That said, I don’t think that a failure in one person necessarily indicates a failure in the entire business, or even the wider culture. For example, I used to work for a business where the following story was told of an ex-member of one of the senior leadership. It’s a far-fetched story, and so may be apocryphal, but so many independent people related it to me that there may be fire under the smoke. The senior leader it relates to certainly got fired anyway. Names have been removed - but anyone who worked for the same business as me at the same time will know exactly what I refer to.

    The senior leader wasn’t getting his jollies, and had a nice little earner on the side selling soiled panties to other perverts. This did not fit with the businesses professed goals and culture. The soiling was a service that he performed himself, presumably on the wares of the lingerie department of M&S purchased during his lunch hour. At some point, he had a crisis of conscience. It was wrong that a perv buying knickers purportedly soiled by a woman should be getting knickers soiled by another old perv. So he asked his PA to do it for him - and the faeces hit the propellor. No matter how good their working relationship, this isn’t what she’d been hired for.

    The point being that, no matter how reprehensible his actions were, they weren’t representative of the organization that he worked for. The actions of the person can be, should be, separated from the business itself (excepting the real bigwigs of course, the CEO in particular).

    Now, would anyone like to buy some panties?

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      > How did he even get past interview?

      And who, with a working knowledge of liaising with law enforcement authorities, would be interviewing him? Who might Apple have had on staff who would know the right questions to ask him?

      He didn't offer a bribe, and he didn't supply any iPads. What he may be guilty of is not reporting a police officer for soliciting for a bribe. Not a decision I've had to wrangle with, I don't know enough to understand how much his judgement was off.

    2. lglethal Silver badge
      Stop

      I'd suggest there's a bit more to it then one person involved. The Head of Security for any firm cant just waltz into the stock office and ask for $70,000 worth of stock without anyone asking questions.

      If he made that promise to the Dirty Cop, then he has first run that past someone who had the authority to dispense that sort of largesse.

      So No, I dont believe this would be one bad Apple (see what I did there :P), it takes a whole tree to approve $70k worth of expenditure for illegal purposes. And as head of Ethics too, dang. What a numbskull, he really wanted those gun licences.

      Oh well, he can look forward to his next roll as head of security at the Silicon Valley Dump, he certainly wont be getting a job anywhere else in the area...

      1. Mike 16 Silver badge

        One Bad Apple

        Why do folks always seem to omit the second half of that saying?

        "One bad apple spoils the barrel."

        It is as true now as it ever was. Tolerate bad behavior from a few (even one) member of an organization and the entire organization will inevitably be corrupted. It was not (until maybe a few decades ago) a simple substitute for the equally inane excuse of "Boys will be boys"

        That said, before we crucify anybody, we need to answer the question of who offered/requested the bribe and whether the other party agreed to it, or reported it.

  11. Pascal Monett Silver badge
    WTF?

    Why do Apple employees need to carry guns ?

    Is Apple really that paranoid that it wants its security personnel to be armed ?

    What's next, Apple is going to buy armored cars to patrol its grounds ?

    This is mental. Having business secrets is one things, arming your personnel with guns is another thing entirely.

    There is nothing National Security at Cupertino, no matter what the bigwigs think or how many billions are in the bank.

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: Why do Apple employees need to carry guns ?

      In 2018 an armed intruder entered the YoiTube headquarters and shot three people before killing herself. So, I wouldn't call Apple 'paranoid'.

      Whether or not having four members of Apple staff, presumably well trained, carry concealed weapons might help in a similar situation is different question.

      It isn't a national security issue, but a safety of one's employees issue.

      That is, of course, if the handguns were intended for campus security or for personal protection officers (doubling as chauffeurs).

      1. My other car WAS an IAV Stryker Bronze badge
        Black Helicopters

        Re: Why do Apple employees need to carry guns ?

        "It isn't a national security issue..."

        My last employer [1] had a sizeable security presence -- originally an internal department, later outsourced -- and while I don't have direct evidence I wouldn't be surprised if firearms were involved [2].

        [1] We're talking "restricted areas" where DU armor was designed and handled, amongst other things. I had nothing to do with armor, so I don't know anything except that fact, which everyone knew.

        [2] There were bigger guns on the vehicles themselves, but no ammunition. None at all on the entire campus. Ammo stays at the "customer" testing sites in safe, remote areas. Of course, these vehicles are dangerous enough to life & property should anyone decide to joyride, which no one did that I know of -- I'm pretty sure doing so would mean jail time.

    2. Mahhn

      Re: Why do Apple employees need to carry guns ?

      who are you to decide some people's lives have less value and don't deserve protecting while others do.

      1. Dave 126 Silver badge

        Re: Why do Apple employees need to carry guns ?

        > who are you to decide some people's lives have less value and don't deserve protecting while others do.

        No one has decided that. I merely said that there have been armed intruders on US tech company headquarters, so 'paranoid' might not be an apt description. I very specifically did not come down on one side or the other on whether armed guards are a suitable response.

      2. Pascal Monett Silver badge
        Mushroom

        Re: who are you to decide

        And who are you to decide that companies should have armed SWAT teams at the ready in case some nutcase comes in with a handgun ?

        I'm sorry, but the USA is not a reference as far as guns are concerned. In most countries, nobody needs a concealed carry license because only criminals have guns and that means the police KNOW WHO TO SHOOT.

        Normal people don't need guns. Companies don't need guns. The rare cases of some fucker charging in with a loaded weapon would be remarkably less common if your shithole country didn't have three guns per citizen.

        Mad Max is not a documentary.

    3. John Savard Silver badge

      Re: Why do Apple employees need to carry guns ?

      There have been incidents of Apple products being stolen from trucks and so on.

      Also, in the United States, there is a high chance of criminals being armed.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Why do Apple employees need to carry guns ?

        Also, in the United States, there is a high chance of criminals everyone being armed.

    4. John Savard Silver badge

      Re: Why do Apple employees need to carry guns ?

      What has national security got to do with it?

      Apple products sell at high prices, and so they're an attractive target for thieves.

      Thieves are likely to be armed.

      If Apple's security guards have guns, fewer robberies will take place.

      1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

        Re: Why do Apple employees need to carry guns ?

        A false syllogism. Even if we accept the general and specific premises, they do not support the conclusion.

    5. HenryBowman

      Re: Why do Apple employees need to carry guns ?

      You are 100% RIGHT. Guns are politically incorrect, and Apple is politically correct.

      Apple Security should carry nothing stronger than squirt guns, as they want to see all Good People do.

      "Apple Removes The Gun Emoji, Replaces It With A Squirt Gun"

      https://www.popsci.com/apple-removes-gun-emoji-replaces-it-with-squirt-gun/

  12. Colonel Mad

    Familiar!

    Seems like a "Devs" character?

  13. Richard Scratcher

    "The briefs believe Moyer and Chadha were caught in the crossfire of a political fight between Smith and Rosen."

    I thought it was Smith and Wesson.

  14. naive

    Cali is like leftist Europe, only the criminals are allowed guns

    In spite of the strict gun laws, the homicide rates in Cali are on the level of Texas, where gun laws are quite liberal.

    In TX open carry is allowed when in possession of a gun permit, and has a "stand your ground" paragraph, where people are allowed self protection against thieves, rapists, knife wielding prophets from the East and other low life, without fear of being prosecuted by leftist DA's for use of excessive force.

    1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

      Re: Cali is like leftist Europe, only the criminals are allowed guns

      Does that "stand your ground" paragraph also allow melanin challenged (note: not melanin deficient) people to shoot cops? I understand those are at serious risk from cops.

      1. s2bu

        Re: Cali is like leftist Europe, only the criminals are allowed guns

        Contrary to what the news media say, that’s not what the SYG laws are about. It just means you don’t have to attempt to run away first. That’s it.

    2. lglethal Silver badge
      Holmes

      Re: Cali is like leftist Europe, only the criminals are allowed guns

      So what your saying is that easy possession of weapons for the law abiding public has no effect on the homicide rate.

      Texas's homicide rate is the same as that awful hell space that is California, with its tight gun laws, compared to Texas's angelic view that anyone and everyone can have a gun to protect themselves.

      So the common factor, must be that being American guarantees a high homicide rate. Sounds about right...

      1. gnasher729 Silver badge

        Re: Cali is like leftist Europe, only the criminals are allowed guns

        Gun ownership mostly affects the number of “successful” suicides. In the USA, two thirds of all gun deaths are suicide. The other third divided into criminal shooting, legal shooting, and accidents. The majority of murders in the USA are _not_ gun murders.

    3. Hollerithevo Silver badge

      Re: Cali is like leftist Europe, only the criminals are allowed guns

      Because the majority of people taken down by these proud gun-owners are thieves, rapists and Muslim terrorists. When really it is Black neighbours, their own children, ordinary people out shopping or in church...

    4. Peter2 Silver badge

      Re: Cali is like leftist Europe, only the criminals are allowed guns

      Going by this:-

      https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/homicide_mortality/homicide.htm

      California has a homicide rate of 4.8

      Texas has a homicide rate of 5.8

      The United Kingdom's rate is 1.2, just for reference.

    5. ThomH Silver badge

      Re: Cali is like leftist Europe, only the criminals are allowed guns

      Texas and Caifornia are both nearly bang in the middle of the league when it comes to homicide mortalities per capita, so are poor data points. If you'll permit a broad correlation of level of gun control with which Presidential candidate each state voted for in 2020 then...

      The five states with the highest rates are: Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama, Missouri, New Mexico. Four reds and one blue.

      The five with the lowest: Maine, Rhode Island, Vermont, New Hampshire, Nebraska. Four blues and one red.

      The probability of 'blue, given that it is in the top half of the list' is 8/25. So if you say to me "this state is above the midpoint in terms of homicide mortalities", there is a 68% chance you're talking about a red state.

      The bottom half of the list contains both Nebraska and Maine which split their votes, but if you bucket those according to who won the majorities then you end up giving each candidate 25 states each. So the numbers are symmetrical.

      Therefore if you say to me "this state is below the midpoint" then there's a 68% chance you're talking about a blue state.

      All that, of course, being relevant only if the initial assumption of a strong correlation between red/blue-ness and gun control strictness actually holds water. I might be falling for propaganda on this one.

  15. Eclectic Man Silver badge

    They did it all wrong

    Large corporations have been funding Police forces in the USA for years:

    https://readsludge.com/2020/06/19/corporate-backers-of-the-blue-how-corporations-bankroll-u-s-police-foundations/

    The Apple guys just did it all wrong, asking for something so small as a few CCW permits. Instead they should have, perfectly legally, poured money into the Police department for essentials (like armoured cars), with a 'wink' and a 'nod' to the local heads of law enforcement.

    One wonders how often the factories or offices of major donors to Police organisations are searched or investigated by those Police Departments for serious crimes.

    <Yes folks, it is tin-foil-hat time, all those surveillance technologies paid for with donated funds.>

  16. David Nash

    Concealed?

    What have they got to hide? Are they planning to use the weapon for something they shouldn't?

    1. mevets Bronze badge

      Re: Concealed?

      Probably part of the culture. The sight of weapons can disrupt mindful meditation, this way they can just circulate among the flock. 'A glok for the flock' is not a bad jingle.

    2. Mahhn

      Re: Concealed?

      Explanation; Some states (where I live) allow anyone qualified (FFA background, no legal restrictions on you for crimes, crazy or non-resident) to Open Carry, meaning it cannot be hidden from plain view, even in your car, it cannot be in the glove box. Concealed carry (where I live) is now legal for everyone (resident/not a felon, bla bla), but used to require a $10 permit fee, 3 references and approval from the Chief on the local PD.

      I have been with people that get nervous if they see a gun on anyone (including police). Very conditioned response. So some people who carry prefer to carry concealed to not scare people that are uncomfortable. They only time I worry about a gun, is if it's in someone's hands and not under peaceful condition (like at home, the range). But I have been around them my entire life. The average driver worries me much more, well, there are lots of videos every day on that..

      1. ThomH Silver badge

        Re: Concealed?

        As counterintuitive as it was to me, as a born-and-bred European, on my visit to Arizona I saw a lot of people openly carrying and it wasn't that concerning after a few hours. But I think that's because it was so common that everybody else was acting quite naturally, imparting a general sense of ease.

        One guy had a bright silver six-shooter prominently strapped to his waist like some sort of cowboy (noting that he had no other cowboy accoutrements; it wasn't a costume), but, honestly, the thing looked so well-maintained and obviously of so much pride to him that it instinctively felt like he's probably also quite up on his safety and training. I don't really know anything about it, but it feels like that has to be an enthusiast's gun.

        I'd probably have declined a hypothetical invite to his house though.

        1. mevets Bronze badge

          Re: Concealed?

          Born & Bred in Canada. Seeing someone with an openly displayed weapon who is not effectively required to carry it by profession is a loud signal you are in the wrong crowd.

          In the USA, you are twice as likely to be hit by a bullet than a car, and they aren't great drivers either.

          Gun culture is narcissistic with an evil back channel - the majority of gun owners are just enablers of people who will take the gun, use it against the owner, then others. Almost as bad, so many eventually feel foolish for buying a weapon for no reason that they seek out an excuse to use it. There is a famous 17year old in Illinois who might be contemplating this right now.

          The rest of the world looks at the USA the way the USA looks at Tiger King. Do not normalize it for a second; it is as deranged as their outgoing President / Traitor.

          1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

            Re: Concealed?

            it is as deranged as their outgoing President / Traitor.

            That [unmentionable] will only be a traitor after due process and declaration of guilt by a jury of his peers.

            Next question: Where do you find 12 idiots raving lunatics who are acceptable to both prosecution and defence?

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Concealed?

            Please site your source, because this is so ridiculous even The Onion wouldn't post it: "In the USA, you are twice as likely to be hit by a bullet than a car "

            https://www.driverknowledge.com/car-accident-statistics/#:~:text=Facts%20Average%20number%20of%20car%20accidents%20in%20the.U.S.,U.S.%20are%20injured%20every%20year%20in%20car%20accidents. 6 million car accidents per year, so you're saying 12 million people are shot?

            Statistically- more people shot themselves intentionally than shoot others, and your numbers are off by 99% https://health.ucdavis.edu/what-you-can-do/facts.html

            Facts over fear. But if you want to live in fear, make sure they are based on facts.

            1. mevets Bronze badge

              Re: Concealed?

              Pedestrian statistics: https://www.ghsa.org/resources/news-releases/pedestrians20

              In 2019 6950 people were hit by automobiles in the USA.

              Gun statistics: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/08/16/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/

              In 2017 (last year on record) 39,773 gun deaths.

              And according to https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-cdc-is-publishing-unreliable-data-on-gun-injuries-people-are-using-it-anyway/

              There are somewhere between 50,000 and 100,000 gun injuries.

              So, of the gun deaths, 26,000 are suicides, which likely aren't an external risk unless you are very unlikely or the person is a very bad shot, so 14,000 deaths, which is about twice the number of pedestrian collisions.

              Blindly assuming that about 2/3 of the injuries are self inflicted, that leaves about 20,000 gun injuries.

              So you are right, you are about 3 or 4 times more likely to be hit by a bullet than a car. Thanks for the clarification.

  17. John Savard Silver badge

    Missing Detail

    It should be Sung and Jensen who are facing charges. Citizens who need to engage in their lawful business but are confronted by officials who demand bribes often have little recourse.

  18. Claptrap314 Silver badge

    What exactly is the crime?

    "Agreeing to provide a bribe to an official whose office has a long history of giving a really bad day to disfavored people"?

    If it is "failure to report", then yeah, this might be criminally stupid. But I would be hard pressed, as a matter of public policy, to convict. The office of the sheriff is scary, and while I strongly advise reporting, the solicitee is the victim here.

    What would I do? Agree immediately. As for execution, however, there would either be a lot of troubles because of "the earth's magnetic field", or difficulties, "getting clearance with the correct department" to a degree that would have the 419ers taking notes.

    And yes, if the sheriff asks for a bribe, once you hang up, I would call the (non-local) FBI office immediately. "Hello. I assume that this is a recorded line. My name is $name$, of $county$ county. I live at $address$. I have just completed a call with the sheriff of said county, in which he requested that I provide $goodies$ in order to receive $service$. While I gave verbal acquiescence, this was to protect myself from the office of sheriff. I will now hang up and contact legal counsel. You may expect to hear from them soon."

    I would then look for an in-state but out-of-county defense attorney that gave money to the sheriff's most recent opponent & hire them.

  19. Claptrap314 Silver badge

    Concealed Carry in the US

    The codes are a complete set of contradictions. Federalism in particular permits states to play fast & loose with rights until eventually the feds step in. This has often taken decades. Local citizens have not always been willing to wait.

    Under one view, someone carrying a fire arm in view is seen as a threat. Under this view, open carry requires a reason. The rules might be different for semi-automatic weapons. Or small weapons.

    Under another view, someone concealing a fire arm is not deterring crime, and is (potentially) enabling the commission of one. Under this view, concealed carry requires a reason.

    Under another view, an otherwise law-abiding citizen going about their day is a threat to exactly zero law-abiding people, and can **** well carry whatever they want however they see fit.

    Which every of these views prevails under sufficient numbers of the code-issuing bodies will write codes according to their views. After that, the law enforcement officers do their thing. Then the judges step in and "interpret" the codes according to what passes as "constitutional law" in their court.

  20. Claptrap314 Silver badge

    $75k? Hahahahahaha

    Apple is rich. Really rich. You just won’t believe how vastly, hugely, mindbogglingly rich it is. I mean, you may think $75k is months of pay, but that’s just peanuts to Apple.

    I worked for a few years at a startup that never went anywhere. One of my jobs was to correct errors in the database that related to billing customers. I had $1000 authority on my own (without bond). The comptroller had $5000. The CFO--$50000. (I'm pretty sure he was bonded.) I would be utterly shocked if the head of global security for Apple lacked signature authority of some number with six or more figures.

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    It's violence, not guns

    At least I live in a country where I can buy a knife with a point at the end.

    It's not guns, it's violence.

  22. Marty McFly Bronze badge
    FAIL

    You spelled Kalifornia wrong...

    It is spelled with a "K" when talking about the citizen's legal ability to protect themselves.

    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=People%27s%20Republic%20of%20Kalifornia

  23. very angry man

    Mad Max is not a documentary.

    Mad Max is not a documentary.

    prove it!

    i watch hollywood i see every night what they get up to.

    mad max is just a doco from an outsiders point of view, so maybe you just don't recognize it.

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