back to article Pakistan calls on Facebook to extend holocaust denial ban into Islamophobia crackdown

Pakistan’s prime minister Imran Khan has called on Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg to ban all Islamophobic content from the platform. Khan took to Twitter to point out that Facebook recently prohibited “any content that denies or distorts the Holocaust” and “banned anti-Semitic stereotypes about the collective power of Jews …

  1. Danny 2 Silver badge

    Bleeding edge discourse

    "It is unclear if Khan wants that policy changed, administered differently, or some other action."

    No, it's clear. Khan wants the stated policy administered equally, impartially and universally, and he obviously thinks it isn't.

    Another anecdote. A local white power gang were holding me at knife point and discussing killing me, which gave me a wonderful opportunity to interview them without them self-censoring. I asked, "You hate Jews and you hate Muslims, so you must be confused and conflicted by the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, no?"

    "No, we hate both. The wogs start at Calais." (This was before the Calais refugee camps so they meant all French people, all foreigners. )

    I talked my way out of that inspired by a Woody Allen skit about being kidnapped by the KKK - again, before he shagged his adopted daughter. Allens kidnapping was imaginary but it helped me survive mine.

    1. Danny 2 Silver badge

      Re: Bleeding edge discourse

      The Bishop of Paisley is on the BBC asking for a Christmas Day truce with covid.

      In the Sunday Times, John Keenan compared the idea to the Christmas Day truce during World War One.

      I drink for Scotland at an international level so I can recognise the face of an alcoholic. And if Bishop John Keenan isn't an alcoholic then he should sue his face for slander. But logic!

      Who exactly is going to negotiate a one day truce with Covid? Hopefully one day we'll have a vaccine against religion.

  2. Insert sadsack pun here
    Headmaster

    "Pakistan’s science and technology minister, told local outlet Arab News..."

    Arab News ain't local to Pakistan. It's based in Saudi Arabia, about 2000km away. Bulgaria and the UK are just as far away.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Islam is not a minority in Pakistan.

  4. cbars

    I dont understand how you can say Charlie Hebdo was an inevitable result of marginalisation, free practicing of Islam is permitted and common in France, along with the rest of Europe. Making a fucking joke is not marginalisation, the ability and freedom to do so is the core of European identity and *is the reason* Europe allows Islam, Christianity, Scientology, Homeopathy, and everything else.

    Extremism is a consequence of many things, poor education, existing mental health issues, indoctrination etc etc.

    I'm not an expert, but I know for a fact its not caused by cartoons. This guy, can fuck right off. What a sour start to a Monday.

    1. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Thumb Up

      What a sour start to a Monday.

      not so much any more. Thanks for the sanity.

  5. StrangerHereMyself Bronze badge

    Failed state

    Pakistan is a failed state which no one should take seriously.

    I assume they want the Register to be banned there as well for me posting this.Typical.

    1. onemark03

      Re: Failed state

      Trouble is, Pakistan is a nuclear-capable failed state.

      A bit difficult to ignore.

      1. Jonathon Green
        Trollface

        Re: Failed state

        A bit like the USA then...

      2. StrangerHereMyself Bronze badge

        Re: Failed state

        What difference does that make?

        I'm vehemently hoping that India and Pakistan have a go at each other using their primitive nukes (their nukes are similar to second generation U.S. nukes from the late 1940's!) and reduce the world population by a sizeable percentage.

  6. msknight

    He faces a problem here

    What happened at the holocaust is fact. Religion isn't fact, it's belief, and if any religion had any proof for what they say, the world would be a different place.. but it isn't... because they haven't. Unfortunately, the very existence of other religions is offensive in itself. Having read even liberal translations of the Quran and some of the hadith, I would be loathe to protect any religion in the manner being requested.

    1. Valeyard

      Re: He faces a problem here

      the different being that we should be able to criticise Jew and Muslims, Christians etc.Criticism is fine and should be legal.

      Holocaust denial isn't criticism, it's something entirely different, breaking pakistan's blasphemy laws is an overreach that always comes of using vague terms ending in "phobia" to define criminal actions

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Hypocrites

    You've got to say nice things about Islam in Pakistan or you will be charged with blasphemy and face the death penalty or a stoning or beating by the mob.

    Dislike and disagreement with Islam is often conflated with a dislike of Muslims. They are not the same. It is not racist to denounce the barbaric and backwards teachings in the Quran.

    Posted anon because I prefer to keep my head attached to my body.

  8. six_tymes

    he is pushing the usual spin propaganda that you'll fall for.

    all that matters is fact, name the religion in the 21st century that so called "extremists" murder people by cutting their heads off, or burn people alive, or kill their own family every year and call it "honer killing." Hint, those followers do not read from the bible.

    I am glad I am not religious. and glad I am not blind to reality either, like many I see online.

    1. Insert sadsack pun here

      We just had a whole bunch of Buddhists and Christians being equally awful to Muslims and other Christians, and that's after two or three centuries of Christians doing awful things to people overseasI have no time for religion of any stripe, but Christians have nothing to be smug about here.

      https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/rohingya-burma-myanmar-children-beheaded-burned-alive-refugees-bangladesh-a7926521.html

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_massacre

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        All religions are basically evil and people who claim to believe them are liars. I believe in planes, so I fly on them. If someone actually believed in a desirable afterlife, they would go there immediately.

        1. Sanctimonious Prick
          Trollface

          Screwed

          @AC

          Exactly. And exactly why I don't understand all the whaling at funerals... the dead (men) go to a place with lots of virgins (why virgins? is it a penis size issue?) to have glorious sex with for eternity. And if that were true, I'd be there right now! (yeah, penis... oh, nothing)

          :D

          1. Captain Boing
            FAIL

            Re: Screwed

            TBH, I never really understood the virgin thing... I was rather hoping that any afterlife (as if...) was on a spiritual plane of infinite wisdom and understanding, freed from the desires of the flesh induced by screaming imbalance of a few chemicals in my dome.

            so it sounds like more of the same. disappointed

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Screwed

            Is there nowhere that whales are safe from hunting?? «sob»

            (I suspect you mean "wailing": "whaling" has an 'h' in it, for crying out loud!)

      2. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Facepalm

        behaving like religious zealots by engaging in murder, terrorism, etc. is NOT justified, explained, nor even lessened in severity by mentioning the bad behavior of bad acting people from hundreds of years ago.

        1. hoola Silver badge

          The IRA were experts, everything to do with Norther Ireland is founded in religion if you go down far enough. The fact that there appear to be members of society that use this as an excuse to maim and kill is in itself an insult to the underlying religious beliefs. The IRA were the worlds most ruthless and efficient organisation for a long time. Whether they have truly put down their arms is debatable, there appears to be just has much hatred and division as ever in the core areas of place like Belfast.

          1. onemark03

            ... everything to do with Northern Ireland is founded in religion ...

            What exactly do you mean?

            The conflict is not religious, it has to do with territory. The IRA (and other Nationalists) oppose the 1921 partition and want reunion with the Republic; the Unionists want the province to stay part of the UK. That both factions come from different sides of the denominational fence has purely historical reasons and is not really part of the confllict - although it certainly doesn't help.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Hint, those followers do not read from the bible.

      I'm pretty sure there are some (nominally) Christian extremists in some of the more desert wilderness states (or at least, prairie fly-over states) in the USA who have similarly extreme views (perhaps not quite as much, but not far off it) and also like to practice locking up their daughters/wives and chaining them to the kitchen sink, etc.

      There might be some elements of good advice for ethical living in most religions (which is a good thing, if only we could get them all to agree that just because someone else follows a slightly different flavour of ethical living, doesn't make them irredeemably evil), but at the same time, they're all mostly ancient superstition and fable, and none of them should be taken particularly seriously. Unfortunately, many of their followers do, and it all goes downhill from there.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Hint, those followers do not read from the bible.

        Religious Fundementalism is a US invention.

        And Islamic Fundementalism has it's genesis in the US' & UK's involvement is the 1953 Iranian coup and the propping up of the Peacock Throne and it's oppressive regime. We reap what they have sown.

        1. onemark03

          Religious fundamentalism is a US invention

          No it's not.

          Look at (i) Ultra-Orthodox and Haredi Jews and (ii) Wahhabist Islam.

  9. Rol

    Education, education, education.

    There's no arguing, the more a person is educated, the more they are likely to find issue with religion.

    That's not the same as losing your faith. You can still believe in God, just not the interpretation that has been foisted upon the masses by a self serving cabal of otherwise irrelevant old bigots.

    As a child I had an issue with Imagine, by John Lennon, because it proposed a world with no religion would be a good thing. As an adult, I now find myself agreeing wholeheartedly with that sentiment. I still believe in God, but the advocates of my very own religion, or rather the moral code I live by, have yet to appear before the courts to answer for their unspeakable acts of cruelty towards the rest of humanity, because there is no case to answer. Organised religion however, in a fair world, would probably have been proscribed as a terrorist organisation by now.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Education, education, education.

      Mathematics exists and requires no creator. The Universe exists because Mathematics exists. End of story.

      1. shah27

        Re: Education, education, education.

        What existed before the existence of the of the universe?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Education, education, education.

          I don't think mathematics caused the universe.

          Mathematics might help to explain the universe, but it surely didn't cause it?

          (Different AC)

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Education, education, education.

            See Max Tegmark's "Mathematical Universe Hypothesis".

            It postulates that, being just pure logic, the concept of Mathematics cannot "not exist". Then it notes that Physics seems to align closely with parts of Mathematics. Finally it says "why do we keep assuming that reality is something distinct to the equations that we use to model it?"

            Think of it as the "how do we know that we are not living in a computer simulation" talk, except using mathematics to avoid needing a computer to bootstrap it. It's kind of amusing to think that the Universe may only exist as a theoretical concept...

            1. Dave559 Silver badge

              Re: Education, education, education.

              "It's kind of amusing to think that the Universe may only exist as a theoretical concept..."

              These sort of discussions make my head hurt. A lot. Aaaaaaaarrrrrghhhhhhhhhhh!!

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          @shah27 - Re: Education, education, education.

          Easy answer: The universe.

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Education, education, education.

          In the Mathematical Universe Hypothesis, the "only" thing that exists is unchanging conceptual mathematics (the exact same thing that you can do on paper). Time and space are just properties of how we happen to be experiencing our little bit of it.

          What happened before would be "whatever the equations say" because the mathematical equations would define reality, rather than being a representative model of some "separate reality".

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Education, education, education.

      This is the other worrying thing. Imran Khan is an intelligent, educated, and well-travelled guy (and a world-class cricketer, to boot). Unfortunately, it rather sounds as though he is taking a particular stance here in order to try to gain favour with the more conservative and less liberal elements in Pakistani politics and society. And I think we all know that trying to appeal to reactionary extremists really isn't a good move in politics.

  10. Wolfclaw

    Facebook do a pretty good job of censoring the right while allowing the left to say and do anything, very unbiased in my opinion !

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      As a centre-right voter (with no-one to vote for) I respectfully disagree. The Right have simply not got anyone with anything worth saying these days... Anything that would traditionally be pro-business, free market, Science and Economics driven, pro-liberty, pro-freedom of personal choice, is drowned out by nut jobs telling us that illnesses come from a Chinese telecoms company and Trump is the misunderstood messiah.

      It's to a point where "Right-wing" is no longer a political viewpoint, but shorthand for "crazy to the point of frothing at the mouth"...

    2. Captain Boing
      Big Brother

      LOL, that was never gonna go down well in a place like the Reg forum... a place crawling with neo-commies who think the independent is a source of truth.

  11. Danny 2 Silver badge

    Religion for the Hell of It - Robert Anton Wilson

    I mentioned here recently I've long been a reverend in the universal life church. I don't mention it because we're discouraged from evangelising, but any of you can become a registered reverend too and get to marry USAians (disclaimer: they have to be willing). For $10 you can become a pope. The basic tenet is be nice, but every reverend interprets that differently.

    My interpretation is stricter than most,

    "Gonnae no dae that. You know what I'm talking about. Just gonnae no. Gie us peace for five minutes."

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Oh, what a tangled web we weave

    When first we practise to ... uh ... censor

  13. Rich 2

    Thought Crime

    While it’s very noble to stomp on racism and bigotry in all its forms, it is a fine line between that and establishing a 1984 thought crime.

    I find this particularly scary when anyone starts talking about outlawing “Holocaust denial”. Personally I don’t deny it happened but if someone else wants to, then feel free to argue with them. But making it a crime is (at best) bizarre and (at worse) as scary as the holocaust itself.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Thought Crime

      Denying the Holocaust isn't a free speech issue. There is plenty of scope to discuss what happened in history. The problem is *why* people deny the holocaust, which is very rarely about an interest in historical accuracy...

      1. Rich 2

        Re: Thought Crime

        I don’t doubt the nefarious reasons for denying it. But to criminalise it (as is the case in some countries) is still making it a “thought crime”. It’s a very slippery slope

  14. Manolo
    Flame

    There is no such thing as "islamophobia".

    Dear mr Khan,

    A phobia is an irrational fear of something. The islam you propose and the islamic laws of your country are truly terrifying. The fear for the world you would like to see is not irrational. Therefore, there can be no such things as islamophobia.

  15. LucasNorth

    Islamophobia is a word created by fascists and used by cowards to manipulate morons. Only anti Muslim bigotry exists, Islam is a totalitarian political ideology that must be opposed at all turns. That much is clear to anyone who actually reads the koran

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Fuck islam!

    Can I say that? Can I? Can I? Can I?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Fuck islam!

      You just did.

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Good Christians follow the example of their leader - Jesus. He opposed the Religious authority of his day, taught his followers to love their enemies, and turn the other cheek when struck. Those Christians who dont do this are not following their faith.

    Good muslums follow the example of their leader - Mohummad. They call him the "perfect man". He killed anyone who opposed him, was a paedofile (he married a 6 year old girl, and started having sex with her at 9) and told his followers to kill anyone who turned away from their god allah. Muslims who dont do this are not following their faith.

    This is why violent, or otherwise bad Christians, dont represent their faith. Violent Muslims, however - do represent their faith, and their false prophet..

    Remember Charlie Hebro - a teacher was recently beheaded in France just for showing the cartoons in class in order to discuss them.

    Islam should be faught with every resource we have. Look up David Wood on youtube. He is a lot braver than I - an anonymouse coward.

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Islam needs to read the mood of each country and learn to act accordingly, otherwise it has no place in many societies. Religion in general is a flawed and potentially dangerous concept but most religions have adapted over time and now exist in a very diluted (harmless) form. Islam also needs to adapt, and accept and recognise that it does not trump the laws and customs of countries.

  19. Old one

    It ain't a PHOBIA

    It ain't a PHOBIA when you quote from the Korcan to behead people, that its OK to lie to further yoour goals, to rape & enslave people -- those are NOT phobias it is sharing the truth about a violent moon god cult.

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Anti-universalism

    Can we add Indigenous-European-identity denialism to the list?

    European identity seems to be incompatible with the universalism which universalists assume is their right to impose universally. All European land, history, art, culture etc. has to be reimagined as actually being universalist, because the truth that much of it wasn’t is offensive to them.

    Anyone who seeks to deny others their own identity, deserves no identity of their own.

    If Pakistan or Israel or anywhere else want universalism imposed, then first impose it at home.

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