back to article Is it Iran or Russia's hackers we need to worry about? The Russians, definitely the Russians, says US intelligence

The FBI and the US government's Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency on Thursday issued a joint warning that a Kremlin hacking crew is probing or breaking into systems belonging to the US government and aviation industry. The joint advisory states that the team, known as Energetic Bear among other monikers, has …

  1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

    I think you're forgetting something

    The Russians look just like us so can't be bad

    (except communist Russians = they look like Klingons)

    1. Claverhouse Silver badge

      Re: I think you're forgetting something

      Maybe the Russians think we look like them.

      And believe we hack into Russia..

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I think you're forgetting something

        "we hack into Russia."

        Imagine if Putin was a 5 eyes agent, put there to kill as many Russians as possible by incompetently handling a pandemic.

        "The cure is worse than the disease" screams Putin as he seeks to undermine the lock-down early, undermining its success and keep the disease going.

        "Liberate Siberia", "LIBERATE ST PETERSBURG" he tweets, targeting opposition states. He seeks to kill as many of their people as possible in those states, so he can blame the opposition for their deaths.

        National testing program? Blocked.

        Infectious disease guidelines? Rewritten by his PR man.

        Equipment, seized by the Feds and rerouted to states that will promote him.

        Imagine Putin lying constantly about the effectiveness of masks, and trying to convince people they're a plot to undermine democracy.

        "Open the schools, herd immunity!" "The disease won't mutate, according to my expert pundit I hired from Sputnik News" Putin says. Even as people die from catching it twice, a different strain the second time. Putin will spread it so far, we'll never have a vaccine, the way we never have a Flu vaccine for all Flu strains.

        Imagine his backers intentionally slowing testing to make the numbers look better in their home states. Intentionally allowing it to spread. Forcing open sports stadiums at full capacity with no mask rules, having mass spreader events, with no mask rules.

        A 911's worth of deaths every few days, a Hiroshima of deaths every few weeks.

        Yeh, I'm sure we hack the Russians, but Putin isn't elected, so we cannot undermine their election with any kind of "We the People" / "All men born equal" thinking.

        1. six_tymes

          Re: I think you're forgetting something

          most people in the know, are aware of who the propagandists are, most post made up regurgitated garbage and post using the coward mask icon.

      2. bombastic bob Silver badge

        Re: I think you're forgetting something

        Maybe the Russians think we look like them.

        And believe we hack into Russia..

        Most likely, yeah. But I don't think that Russian hackers are out there trying to destroy the USA from within. It's most likely your average cloak+dagger spying, which has been going on since WW2.

        (what nobody ever watched a James Bond movie from the 60's, 70s, and 80's?)

        Here's a thought: why didn't anyone mention CHINA and N. Korea?

        1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

          I think you're forgetting something about public service ...

          ..... in any deceptive private practice freelancer role. It sucks when blown

          Most likely, yeah. But I don't think that Russian hackers are out there trying to destroy the USA from within. It's most likely your average cloak+dagger spying, which has been going on since WW2....... bombastic bob

          The UK's dodgy dossiers collection, with the latest former MI6 agent Christopher Steele one targeting the USA Presidential System via the Donald Trump conduit, are proving themselves better than most at doing all of that from the stealthy shadows in the deep shade of a pretty plausible deniability .... " What ‽ Us ‽ ,Your special relationship partner ally, and the one you've been seriously serially shafting since ever you thought you were able and wouldn't be found out?! You cannot be serious ‽ We would/could never do such a justifiable thing"

          And you know what they say about former spooky agents, apart from them being a fabrication of fiction for penny dreadful publications ...... Once an intelligence agency agent, always an intelligence agency agent. ....... therefore, take a bow MI6 , the stage is all yours for those performances, with not a Ruskie or Oriental in sight or within hailing distance.

          However, it is not the Greatest of Greater IntelAIgent Games to be playing whenever so awful rather than AWEsome. If it were to be Bonded and Rated, it would be Classified Super Premium Sub-Prime Junk.

    2. macjules Silver badge

      Re: I think you're forgetting something


      USA password = 'maga2020!'

      1. bombastic bob Silver badge

        Re: I think you're forgetting something

        that's the password on my luggage!

    3. Lars Silver badge

      Re: I think you're forgetting something

      Lets not forget that there are govenments and politics but there are also people. Most Russians adore America and would like to be like Americans, you can even see it in the cars they like to drive. Next best is Germany.

  2. Claverhouse Silver badge

    Why Don't They Use VPNs ?

    Cheap enough.

  3. Danny 2 Silver badge

    Frankie Boyle filmed in Russia for the BBC

    ...and then he said this:

    "Americans are weird. They don't have health care, they don't want health care, and if you try to offer them health care then they get angry."

    We've been brainwashed in the UK to accept socialised medicine. Our insurance agents and pharma shareholders don't have the rights their US equivalents enjoy.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      US health care

      I too noticed that there is a wierd thing about health care in the US, when Obama wanted to use the country's health insurance to fund health care for everyone, those with insurance felt that anyone who had not had the same amount of sh1t in order to get cover did not deserve the same protections they had "earned"

      They didn't care that they would still get the same care as before they just didn't want others to get it without the sh1t.

      Nationalised health care always acts to reduce the cost of the service via bulk drug purchases discounts and a common pay scheme against the fact that private insuranced anything always acts to increase the costs was not a poiint they could understand. This since the insurance companies still make their money no matter the cost.

      Talk about cutting your own nose off to spite your face

      The common view I met was "I had to go through shit to get this and I will be damned if anyone is going to get this for "free" hence no nationalised health care and instad the most expensive health service in the world. Only in America right?

      1. Uncle Slacky Silver badge

        Re: US health care

        That's pretty much Biden's justification for not introducing free healthcare, that doing so would somehow disrespect his dead son:

        1. Lars Silver badge
          Thumb Down

          Re: US health care

          @Uncle Slacky

          You must be an ardent Trumpist as you lie like that.

          Just listen yourselt to Biden in that link.

          What he says is that every American deservs an affordable healttcare.

          1. Uncle Slacky Silver badge

            Re: US health care

            From the article:

            "In all, the ad is saying that healthcare is personal to Joe Biden because his son died; that as a father, he believes the best and most legitimate way to honor his dead son’s legacy would be to implement further incremental regulatory reform, along the lines of what Barack Obama did; and that people who disagree and think that radical reform is necessary—among them, presumably, the 80 percent or so of Democrats who say it’s important to nominate a presidential candidate who supports Medicare for All—are dishonoring his son’s legacy. A hell of a pitch!"

            If I were voting it would be for the Greens, as only they are offering M4A.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: US health care

        "They didn't care that they would still get the same care as before they just didn't want others to get it without the sh1t."

        That statement is not very accurate. We did not all get the same care when the ACA became law. We had an excellent and affordable healthcare plan at the company I worked at as this was being implemented. Afterwards, the company had to switch us to a different plan with the same health insurance brand, and the coverage cost more and covered less. Why? Because the plan we were under was purchased from out-of-state and didn't meet the ACA grandfathering guidelines. This happened to many people, but a small percentage of the nation nonetheless.

        Healthcare reform is desperately needed here in the USA. The Medicaid/Medicare programs are a mess here. They're better than nothing, though. The general idea is you get free third-rate care with limited options if you're poor, or pay significantly more for better care and more options if you can afford it. Many people see how the government administers Medicaid/Medicare and don't want them involved in it at all.

        Sadly, I don't think we're going to have meaningful healthcare reform until our government starts working for the people, instead of for their political party agendas.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: US health care

          Insurance plans are always great as long as you're healthy and employed.

          When you get fired and lose your coverage, or old or get cancer or get sick then suddenly its an extra battle to get the coverage you paid for. Myself I think medicare for all is the one and only solution and it will never happen as long as health lobbyist control both parties and the liars on Fox News.

          $20 a month healthcare? What a utter lie that was.

          If Republicans defund ACA and Medicare, an awful lot of people are going to get sick and die from diseases that would be trivial to treat in other countries. But profits will be maximized for the Insurance companies.

          BTW, my thoughts and prayers to Mitch McConnell. Many people would say its the wrath of God, burning his from the inside as karma for all the evil things he's done to Americans, but I don't believe in God. At least his Senate health insurance covers the blood thinners needed to keep him alive as it eats his insides. When he strips other people's healthcare, they won't be able to pay for their medicines.

          Just so he know, thoughts and prayers Mitch, thoughts and prayers. I'd hate you to leave without the customary T&P you've given so many others, when they reached out for legislative action and you replied with bluster and obstruction.

          As you often used to say, "now is not the time". Well perhaps "now is not the time" to take away people's healthcare in the middle of a pandemic when they're unemployed?

          Oh right, I forget, that's terminal hypocrisy burning you inside. Thoughts and prayers Mitch, T&P.

          1. JCitizen

            Re: US health care

            The answer is not government heath care; although assistance and subsidies might work, as long as it is allowed to have NON - PROFIT insurance available across state lines. But OH NOOO! We can't be having THAT! Notice you will never see a politician from any party mention that simple solution - obviously because the insurance and big pharma companies have them in their hip pocket.

            I thought it was suspicious when Governor Sebelius was taken from office to head USDHHS, after blocking attempts by the industry to destroy such a plan existing in Kansas. There, a Blue Cross & Blue Shield association OWNED BY THE CUSTOMERS, was under attack by insurers trying to buy it out using hostile take over methods. Just as soon as Obama installed her at the United States Department of Health and Human Services, all talk of health care associations ceased, and not a peep was heard about it from then on.

        2. martinusher Silver badge

          Re: US health care

          Health plans tend to rise steeply in cost year on year so there's a lot of pressure to cut costs by adjusting the coverage of those plans so that costs fall more steeply on the user. Out of state insurers tend to be favored for dicey plans because they are not under the control of the state's insurance commission (assiming it has one). I'm retired now so I can look at the company's open enrollment for next year and just feel sorry for people rather than wincing.

          Medicare is administered by CMS and works just like normal insurance. Premiums are paid by the user typically by automatic deduction from their Social Security check. CMS is just like any other insurance company. Most of us don't seem to use 'pure' Medicare, though -- you sign up for an insurer's 'extra' plan where they contract with Medicare for your coverage. This can't be that uneconomic because there's a robust marketing effort from numerous companies at open enrollment time.

          Medicaid is administered by the state and thanks to the ACA its now handled as regular insurance with just the premiums subsidized depending on your income level. (We have a son who has a chronic condition that makes it difficult to work at the moment; his premium is $1 a month.)

          The ACA was a pretty good stab at making some kind of sense of our chaotic insurance market. It would be even better if the Republicans had spent some of the effort they'd spent over the last decade trying to kill it on improving it. As thing stand in Republican controlled states the state government won't even listen to the popular vote via a Proposition to implement it -- they just drag and disrupt and they're still hoping that the SCOTUS will kill it next month.

          UK readers -- defend the NHS even in its current degraded state. You don't want to get mixed up in a US type system.

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: US health care

          I made the reason for increased costs plain in my post it is down to insurance.

          Nationalising health care requires all hospitals to come under the government and any remaining third parties have to deal directly with the government agency in charge of health care and so have far less wiggle room for extraneous profits i.e. the government set the price rather than the other way around.

          If you keep the insurance then ofc they are going to act so as to recover what they have lost i.e. their hand in everyone who can afford it's pocket and a market where prices only go up.

          Doing a half ass job and pretending it is nationalised when the majority of those involved are third parties was always going to change nothing. The original plan of taking the publics cash off the insurance companies and using that to bring all health services under one controlling roof was derailed since the US citizen is listened to less than those who can pay to be listened to.

      3. Lars Silver badge

        Re: US health care

        The USA is indeed an abnormity regarding healthcare.

        Americans have simply been fooled by the insurance and pharmacy companies and calling something sosialist seems to work well (if not with open source that well anymore).

        Quoting the Wikipedia:

        "Most developed countries have partially or fully publicly funded health systems. Most western industrial countries have a system of social insurance based on the principle of social solidarity that covers eligible people from bearing the direct burden of most health care expenditure,".

        1. John Smith 19 Gold badge

          "and calling something sosialist seems to work well "

          That's the dog whistle that always works.

          The all purpose slur.

          AFAIK the last time a real socialist ran in CA it was a writer guy called Upton Sinclair in 1948.

          His campaign manager was some low rent scribbler called Henning, or was it Heinlein?

          Something about "Taking back your government," or some such nonsense.

    2. DS999 Silver badge

      The real problem with US health care

      Is that the system has grown up to include tons of middlemen - that's why doctors in any practice are outnumbered at least 2 to 1 by people working full time dealing with insurance stuff. And there are huge companies that do nothing but provide services necessary for them to be able to do that. If we scrapped everything and did true nationalized health care, it would cost much less - given that we spend about twice what any other industrialized country does and have worse health outcomes than many of them.

      The problem is that all those middlemen would lose their jobs, and all the companies do those middleman tasks would go bankrupt. So there's a huge lobby to prevent us from ever doing what makes sense from a financial perspective, because too many people owe their living to the fucked up system we have.

      So instead we are pitched compromises like "medicare for all", that would allow preserving the current system because you need supplemental insurance to cover the stuff medicare doesn't - because the middleman lobbyists have made sure that lawmakers force holes to be left in medicare that they must fill. Which is why medicare for all would be even more expensive, because it doesn't do anything to eliminate all those useless middlemen.

      We would be better off to slowly transition to nationalized health care - start covering everyone under 30 via the national system, and increase that age by 5 years every 2. They are mostly healthy so it wouldn't cost as much as medicare for all out of the gate, it would help reduce the insurance cost for businesses over time, and slowly reduce the need for all those middlemen. When the age reaches 60, you cut over medicare itself to the new system. That 12 year period would be more than enough for the real economy to absorb all the middlemen who haven't become old enough to retire in the meantime.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Yeh but its all about orphans

    I know it looks bad, the Presidents lawyer meeting with Russian agents again. But that's about adopting cute white orphans.

    His backers keep visiting a Russian bag man in Vienna because orphans need to be paid for.

    VTB bank propping up his loans. Orphans are expensive, the poor man is obviously struggling because he hasn't paid capital back since 2012.

    GRU agent Andrii Derkach trying to launch an attack package against Hunter Biden, while Trump was trying to force the Ukraine President to pretend its real. ORPHANS!

    And sure he must have a hidden Russian bank account from the days of Ms Universe pageant Moscow, but then he needs that to visit the orphanages in Russia!

    Its all about adopting Russian white baby orphans and is totally innocent.

    Will Trump be sharing their campaign private polling data with Konstantin Kilimnik this election cycle to help the poor orphans?

    1. macjules Silver badge

      Re: Yeh but its all about orphans

      As Trump would say, "We have some great orphans in America. I am the best at making orphans. I make the best orphans in the world."

  5. Maelstorm Bronze badge

    Here's something you may not know.

    Here's the thing. Russia interfered in our elections during the 2016 presidential campaign because of Hillary. Yes, I am blaming Hillary Rodham Clinton for Russians interfering in a presidential election.


    That's a good question. It's because Putin flat out hates Hillary. When Hillary was Secretary of State during the Obama administration, she ran a covert operation, in Russia, that interfered with Putin's reelection campaign. So yes, payback is a bitch. This is why I think we should let it go and call it even. Now if they interfere in the upcoming elections, then by all means make them answer for it. What form that would take, I have no idea.

    1. DavCrav Silver badge

      Re: Here's something you may not know.

      "It's because Putin flat out hates Hillary. When Hillary was Secretary of State during the Obama administration, she ran a covert operation, in Russia, that interfered with Putin's reelection campaign."

      I indeed have never heard about this. Can you provide some evidence of it? Because some Googling came up with nothing either. And something at least slightly reputable please, not Rudy Guiliani for example.

      1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

        Re: Here's something you may not know.

        I indeed have never heard about this. Can you provide some evidence of it? Because some Googling came up with nothing either. .... DavCrav

        I wouldn't be relying on that for any confirmation of anything, DavCrav, for here's something you may not know ......

        Google don't/mightn't put all eggs in their baskets. They have to be selective if passionate dispassionate unbiased virtual machines/SMARTR Algorithms are not be made known are able to be enabled and to have taken over search engine optimisation ....... rendering further human input unnecessary and discriminatory.

    2. Asaysummit

      Re: Here's something you may not know.

      "that interfered with Putin's reelection campaign"

      There is no real elections in Russia to interfere with.

      It was the Magnitsky act of 2012 he wanted overturned that started it:

      That in turn led to a spy ring operating out of Vnesheconombank in New York, offering lucrative property deals in Moscow in exchange for getting political influence, which the FBI caught and prosecuted (no proof that they met with Trump but given it was a Moscow property deal Trump was lying about in 2016 it seems likely):

      He said there was no Moscow property deal, but there was, he was lying. He said they hadn't discussed it with the Kremlin but they had, he was lying. He said they hadn't had a reply from the Kremlin, but they had, he was lying. He said he hasn't signed a deal, he had signed, he was lying. He says the deal is off, but its just stalled, he is lying.

      Obama ejected that spy ring and prosecuted its leader for espionage:

      Meanwhile in Ukraine, a Russia puppet leader put in place with the help of a man named Paul Manasfort. Puppet did a sudden u-turn and a super-favorable deal with Russian. A middle man shell company was created, money was skimmed off the Ukraines transit of Russian gas to Europe.

      $800 million for a company that does nothing but take a middleman profit. Money goes into keeping the puppet and Putin friendly politicians in power. Dmytro Firtash is the man running the company.

      He is later arrested in Vienna for laundering Russian money. Vienna gets a lot of visitors, Devin Nunes and Rudy Guilliani being just a few! All of them head to Vienna, and then onto Ukraine for some sweet sweet quid-pro-quo.

      Lev Parnas, the Russian accused of funneling Russian money into the Trump campaign gets $1 million into his wifes bank account from Firtash. Parnas stops speaking publicly about Trump's Russian backers shortly afterwards.

      Russian puppet in Ukraine was ejected by mass protests, Russia then invaded Ukraine and grabbed Crimea, US increased sanctions on Russia and funded an anti-Russian invasion defense fund.

      Putin back Trumps. Hackers/ money/ trolls/ propaganda, all flow Trumps way. Trump-tower meetings with GRU man about the property deal, Trump wants his reward. Lots of meeting between Russian ambassador and GOP reps. Lots of money and trolling flows into Republican candidates via NRA and Lev Parnas, a spy named Maria Butina is caught prosecuted and ejected:

      Paul Manasfort helps put Trump in power, Trump cancels the defense fund, Trump re-opens the Russian spy bases in USA, the men behind the $800 million fund go on to do the current Hunter biden attack. Barr ends prosecution of Russian controlled shell companies funneling money into GOP. Trump withholds missiles from Ukraine unless they block investigation into Manasfort from Mueller. Trump tries to force new Ukraine leader to help with the Russian campaign and fails. Trump is caught and impeached.

      So now Putin ambition is way way bigger. He can have it all, he can control a major superpower and for a few hundred million dollars Republicans will help him. They want power, they don't represent the majority, he can bypass any election restrictions, there is a deal to be made and they want to make it.

      Fox News will sell out their country for ad revenue pocket change.

      USA for sale, cheap cheap, Fox and Friends will lie to their viewers to help Russia do it.

      "payback is a bitch"

      Putin is a threat to democracy. He needs to be removed from power. No excuses. No "well its just payback" crap. He's actively attacking the west. There needs to be payback. He will keep trying till he flips another democracy. It needs to stop.

      Republicans need to pick sides and back America.

      1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

        Re: Here's something you may not know.

        Well, you know what they say and what one has to do, Asaysummit ....... The only way to get smarter is by playing a smarter opponent ….. Fundamentals of Chess 1883

    3. Jim Birch

      Re: Here's something you may not know.

      Sorry, international relations does not work like schoolkids bitchin'.

  6. Chris G Silver badge

    "stir up civil unrest and distrust in the results of the November 3 US elections, and convince citizens to question the outcome. "

    I don't think help from Russia is needed to achieve the above, TPTB in the US have easily achieved that situation.

    The line sounds more like preparation for an " I told you so" when they can't get OHSG out of the White House.

    1. DavCrav Silver badge


      Is that short for 'the pillock that be'?

    2. Nifty Silver badge

      'Stir up civil unrest and distrust in the results of the November 3 US elections' exactly, who needs the Russians when Trump's already on it?

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Pot Accuses Kettle.....Again!

    "The FBI and the US government...." are behaving in the EXACT SAME WAY. Were the Snowden revelations too long ago for the reader to remember?


    How about GCHQ? Try reading this:


    Yup.....they are all at it....each one claiming the high ground, each one announcing "despicable acts" by the others.


    THERE ARE NO GOOD long before El Reg reporting acknowledges this simple fact?

    1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

      Re: Pot Accuses Kettle.....Again!

      THERE ARE NO GOOD long before El Reg reporting acknowledges this simple fact? ....... Anonymous Coward

      And in the very best of traditional and farcical Xmas pantomime reposts, is the loud and clear answer ...... OH, YES THERE ARE. :-)

      amanfromMars [2010230652] ..... venting on

      Pretty crazy isn’t it? And getting crazier.

      All this would be funny if it were Ruritania ranting at the Duchy of Strackenz.

      But it isn’t: it’s the country with the most destructive military in the world and a proven record of using it ad libitum that is sinking into this insanity. And that’s not good for any of us.

      Surely less of that particular insanity would be great for everybody, and especially good for all in the US, for by natural ignorant association are all there tarred by the same brush which paints them as being essential federal tax paying warmonger enabling supporters ...... even though that myth is all wrong too, for Departments of Defence have there own Federal Reserve type bottomless pit of freshly printed dollars magicked out of the ether to supply to fellow co-conspirators and other gang members?

      And yes, that is pretty crazy, isn't it? And getting crazier, and all too evidently perfectly true, too.

      Who you gonna blame for that madness? Someone else? Some other lands somewhere else foreign? What are you gonna say to the judge ........ They made me do it, your honour?

      Strewth! .... Wise up FFS. IT's gonna kill you if you don't and that aint no lie. Enough is enough already.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Go get them

    The USA supposedly knows who they are, and what buildin they work in.

    So go GET THEM.

    I have seen in american movies how Tom Cruise would be able to do so. There must be other less famous people who can extract the hackers.

    1. DavCrav Silver badge

      Re: Go get them

      "I have seen in american movies how Tom Cruise would be able to do so. There must be other less famous people who can extract the hackers."

      Keifer Sutherland? I mean, whenn his term as President is up.

  9. TiredNConfused80

    "urging people to rely on local governments, and other trusted sources such as top-tier media, for election news and results"

    Finger on the pulse of public opinion I see...

  10. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

    >The actor may be seeking access to obtain future disruption options, to influence US policies and actions

    They should stop electing actors then

  11. six_tymes

    wow, you don't know? Iran has been using Russian language translators for almost a decade now, and has been hacking the vpn hosted apps that run through Pakistani for the past 5+ years. Don't know? GO research it yourself. Russians mainly crack programs, granted they do more at times but no where near what the Pakistanis do. I hope they dont hack your data base and hunt me down for speaking truths.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      strange post is strange.

      I have never heard of pakistanis masquerading as russians to hack US computers. Nor have I ever met any pakistani who is interested and competent in IT security. Whereas I have met many russians who are experts on the subject.

      Then again, I wouldn't put it past the Chinese to be masquerading as pakistanis masquerading as russians.

      1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

        Praise where/when praise is due in a very odd world.

        strange post is strange

        I have never heard of pakistanis masquerading as russians to hack US computers. Nor have I ever met any pakistani who is interested and competent in IT security. Whereas I have met many russians who are experts on the subject.

        Then again, I wouldn't put it past the Chinese to be masquerading as pakistanis masquerading as russians. .... Anonymous Coward

        You've excelled yourself in the art of strange there, AC. Bravo.

  12. John Smith 19 Gold badge

    Winners have plans. Losers have excuses. What does this sound like?

    Because of an election system designed (and never updated) when the fastest way to carry a message across the US was by horseback. Less than 10% of the people who vote will decide the who gets to be the 45th president.

    If Nelly wins again he'll say because he's so great and any talk of postal electoral fraud will disappear. Otherwise he will go on and on about it like the petulant ex prep schoolboy with a massively-over-developed-sense-of-entitlement he is.

    The question is can you convince that 10% that a 5 times bankrupt casino owner (who can't make a profit running a machine for separating people from their money) is in fact a total f**king moron?

  13. Robert D Bank


    The US Gov't and electoral system is so corrupted internally that the Russians would have a real fight on their hands to make it any worse. It makes no difference which party is in power either, so all this crap about interfering with elections is just a distraction.Meanwhile the big money and power rolls on unabated.

    1. John Smith 19 Gold badge

      "Meanwhile the big money and power rolls on unabated."

      And while people think that way it always will.

      Cynicism is the simplest political philosophy to support.

      It asks nothing and offers nothing.

      1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

        Re: "Meanwhile the big money and power rolls on unabated."

        "Meanwhile the big money and power rolls on unabated.".... Robert D Bank
        ...... And while people think that way it always will. ...... John Smith 19

        One is then fortunate not all think that way, and many can think altogether quite differently, and whenever based upon all the freely available evidence, can it prove to be really problematical and deeply disruptive, with many thinking that to be a massive understatement and gross misunderestimation ......

        “Support remains essential for some time—withdrawing it too early risks grave and unwarranted economic harm.” ...... IMF Confirms Massive Stimulus Ahead Globally

        Grave and unwarranted economic harm would not be the major concern of some, who may in turn be many and more than just a few in league and cosy concert with the Few.

        Withdrawing essential support at any time risks a popular uprising and FrancoRusso style revolution with bankers and profit market traders the most likely immediately highly sought after targets for mob attention.

        Are you going to deny that profit, that which underpins and undermines everything in the fiat capitalist system, is both money/reward paid and earned for nothing? And it perversely supernaturally makes everything everywhere inevitably inflated and too expensive to sell or purchase.  And yet it is treated like a god and a must-have good, whenever it is so obviously an extremely self-destructive bad.

        If the basics/foundations are wrong, the structures built upon them will certainly collapse and invariably incredibly quickly and catastrophically. It is only natural and therefore fully to be expected.

        Do you have trouble seeing that?

      2. Robert D Bank

        Re: "Meanwhile the big money and power rolls on unabated."

        That's true, as does sarcasm. And you're asking or offering what? Do you feel empowered?

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I didn’t vote for Trump in 2016

    Nor did a majority of Americans....

  15. Gene Jones

    How many governments has the US overthrown since WW2?

    An honest question.

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