back to article Here's the new build, Insiders... wait for it... wait for it... Is it Windows 10X's upcoming ... Oh. You can change refresh rate of the display

Windows Insiders on the bleeding edge Windows 10 dev release channel that hoped to twiddle a knob or switch in the latest Windows 10X iteration had to settle for a drop-down menu for the refresh rate of a given display. The dropdown, emitted in last week's build 20236, is a nice toy for sure, and will be welcomed by those who …

  1. Mage Silver badge

    Windows Calculator

    I hope not the one with the subtraction bug. Maybe that was on WFWG 3.11.

    The other "features" sound like stuff Windows did 12 years ago and 20 years ago.

    1. Dazed and Confused

      Re: Windows Calculator

      I don't want no Windows calculator, I want an HP 16C, like I have on my phone.

      1. NetBlackOps

        Re: Windows Calculator

        HP-41 here.

    2. druck Silver badge

      Re: Windows Calculator

      Still to this day it is an inconsistent mess.

      In standard mode: 2 + 3 * 4 = 20

      In scientific mode: 2 + 3 * 4 = 14

      Hopefully everyone knows the latter in correct.

      1. Pigeon

        Re: Windows Calculator

        I have not access to Windows, but I might suggest that 2 + 3 might result in the answer 5 immediately. In this case it would be reasonable to multiply 5 * 4. I can imagine many people who would think that way.

        It follows the same logic as Excel data conversion. (Please, not the U+2B07)

        1. druck Silver badge

          Re: Windows Calculator

          Many people might think that way, but they would be wrong - BODMAS!

          1. martynhare

            Don’t you mean...


          2. gobaskof

            Re: Windows Calculator

            BODMAS is a convention for written mathematics. At the point where you get a cheap calculator that shows you the "current answer" every time you ender the next operator it is totally ambiguous what it should do because that "current answer" should never have been calculated.

            It is fantastic to be smug and say that people who think that way are wrong, but if your goal is to create a tool that works for people then you have also failed. I don't have a good answer except that simple calculators are like excel. They do a job, but most people use them incorrectly and get funky answers they trust.

            If you are programming or doing analytical mathematics BODMAS is fine. If you are using a simple calculator, be explicit with brackets. I teach some maths to first year undergrads in our degree. First thing I do is make them do a big ish sum on the calculator and many get it wrong.

            I think it is time we taught people to be overly explicit and careful when calculating. Rather than to be smug about being "technically correct" while quoting an anagram of a convention.

            1. DoctorNine

              Re: Windows Calculator

              When I was taking linear algebra, the professor had a habit of creating these sorts of ambiguities just to see who was paying attention in their notation. One particularly nasty exercise was recreating a proof, where he left ONE parenthesis out of the question on purpose, and he expected us to identify where he left it out, in order to successfully solve it. The caterwauling and moaning was audible when he left us the task. Took me a whole weekend and twenty feet of empty desk to print it out.

      2. Dave 126 Silver badge

        Re: Windows Calculator

        I could never remember which way it worked, but I never forget that I can't remember. Therefore I use:

        (2+3)×4 = 20, or

        2 + (3×4) = 14

      3. Kristian Walsh Silver badge

        Re: Windows Calculator

        Actually, everyone knows that both are correct. An electronic calculator is a running-total device. Perform an operation, get the result, that result becomes the first operand of the next operation, and so on...

        More sophisticated electronic calculators had bracket keys to override this behaviour and store results so that you can perform mathematically-correct ordering without mentally juggling the calculation beforehand, but they remained running-total at heart - the brackets managed an expression stack that was popped and evaluated every time you pressed the close-bracket key. When I owned Macs, you could irrevocably confuse the MacOS X calculator by not closing a bracket before typing equals. Nothing would recover it except a re-launch.. I reported it with clear repro, but six years later it was still there, maybe it's still broken. [try it yourself: 17 - ( + 2 × 4 = ]

        Microsoft could actually be accused of being wrong in Scientific mode, as many Scientific calculators retained the stack-machine-based running total evaluation; adopting the correct operator precedence is a concession to users. However, while engineering and scientific users might appreciate that concession, financial users are accustomed to the running-total pattern, which is why the standard mode retains that behaviour.

        In other words, “Technically Wrong but Actually Useful” beats “Technically Correct But Irritating” every time.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Windows Calculator

          When I sat my exams over 30 years ago, I was using a calculator which respected operator precedence, and other than incredibly the cheap Canon LS-12PC I have not used one without it. I would argue that most people when faced with calculations like 3x£1.17+5x£1.92 actually want the answer £13.11, not £16.3392. There are very few occasions even in financial calculations where operator equivalence makes sense. It is better to understand you want a subtotal (press =) then multiply.

      4. Strahd Ivarius Silver badge

        Re: Windows Calculator

        Since IT people work using either binary or hexadecimal notation, both are wrong


    Ah yes, Microsoft and Canonical...

    ... the love that dare not speak its name. Where will it all end?

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