back to article Infosys to hire 12,000 more Americans – especially the cheapest ones it can find

Indian IT services giant Infosys has pledged to hire 12,000 more American workers in the next two years and will prioritise graduate hires because they let the company grow while keeping costs down. The price Infosys and its ilk pay for labor is a political hot potato in the USA, where it and other Indian tech services …

  1. Marketing Hack Silver badge

    In short, Infosys hires cheap. However, at least they are making some effort.

    1. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

      Credit where credit is due

      Will anyone thank President Trump for making poor Americans so poor and desperate that they can underbid poor people from the rest of the world?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Credit where credit is due

        He should have ENDED this Visa program ALL TOGETHER.

        SIMPLE.

        Americans would have received the message LOUD & CLEAR

        SIMPLE

        1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

          Re: Credit where credit is due

          It is WELL KNOWN that BLOCK CAPITALS make an argument MORE PERSUASIVE, and possibly even MORE FACTUALLY CORRECT.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Meh!

      Infosys / Cognizant / <insert your favorite Indian body shop>

      Will hire one American and lie about their skills and charge a 50%+ margin on them.

      Behind them, they'll have an offshore team where they pay less and have higher margins.

      The quality of work is substandard.

      In one instance, I got push back when I wanted to see the code to understand how difficult it would be to upgrade to add features that were needed. When I went up to my manager to report the issue, someone politely told me about the consulting mafia and that I shouldn't make waves. Everyone was happy as long as it worked.

      Trump was right in pushing these companies out of US Government contracts.

      Now I'm on a list where every time a contract pops up on Beeline, I get 50 emails from Indians low balling me on a contract where it has to be a W2 and not C2C. Why? Because companies caught on that these body shops (Not the big guys) were only pushing subs and the company didn't want to be on the hook for potential taxes.

      There's more, but you get the idea.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Meh!

        Very true. I see this day in and day out. There are kick backs also for hiring cheap labor and billing very high rates. Goes from the hiring managers to everyone else. The H1B person gets $40-50/hour whereas the client is charged $125 or more per hour. Every big consulting firm is doing it. Mostly they are cheating the State governments and Federal government.

        There is no much corruption and abuse of the H1B program that one paragraph is not even enough. This is one area where I support president Trump. He does not know the details, but at a high level, he is right.

        Source: I have couple of friends who run these body shops...They tell me all about it. This is why I am posting anonymously.

        1. First Light Bronze badge

          Re: Meh!

          Do you support Trump or are you just agreeing with his policy?

          I don't support him AND I agree that the H1B program has been hijacked. So Biden's predictable nod to increasing H1B numbers didn't make me happy. It is a highly flawed program and needs to be fixed. Note I don't agree that 45 is fixing the issue - ICE/CIS needs to fully overhaul the laws and regs.

        2. chololennon
          Unhappy

          Re: Meh!

          "The H1B person gets $40-50/hour whereas the client is charged $125 or more per hour. "

          Wow, in Argentina, American companies outsource software for no more than $30/hour (in the best case). We are so cheap :-( that they always ask for senior (or ultra senior) developers.

          1. MOUATIB

            Re: Meh!

            In Inida, it is $5 to $7 per hour.

  2. batfink Silver badge

    In short then

    Infosys want to pay Americans Indian wages.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: In short then

      Soon, it will be 3 grains of rice: 1 for breakfast, 1 for lunch and 1 for dinner.

    2. NeilPost Bronze badge

      Re: In short then

      No they want to pay H1B equivalent wages, not Bangalore Wages.

      It’s basically a return to having a Ye Olde Grad recruitment programme.... who you will grow into useful employees out of college. Some you may even sponsor and offer vacation internment to.

      It’s not rocket science.

  3. Hollerithevo Silver badge

    A false start

    Infosys is putting spin on what it can't help but do. I think offering work for Americans in the USA is a good idea. I also think paying them properly is a good idea. Trump is not wrong to want jobs offered to Americans first -- who wouldn't, if you were in the USA? -- but American companies want the work done cheaply and the American consumer wants the lowest possible price, and you can't deliver those two things if you are also delivering properly-paid American-based jobs.

    I also think it would be cool if H-2B roles were also heavily restricted, so those services/hospitality jobs (waiter, busboy, kitchen serf, etc.) went to those Americans who would be thankful for these roles. But as Trump himself uses H-2B for his own hotels and resorts, I don't think you'll see him saying much about those jobs. A shame, because there are a lot of desperately poor people in the USA.

    1. Marketing Hack Silver badge

      Re: A false start

      That's why Trump's various "Muslim bans" don't target countries like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and the Emirates. There are lots of rich and powerful people there who are good customers of the various Trump hotels and resorts, and will call the Trump Organization to remind them of that.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: A false start

      Its one of the glaring criticisms of the economic model we mainly use across the world.

      Consumers want more cheaper products, they want their purchasing power to go further and buy more stuff, makers need cheaper products to sell more, wall street demands more revenue. The serpent eats itself when the consumers are earning less to drive their employers cost down and ultimately the advantage is lost. Ultimately systemic collapse happens, it can't go any other way.

      In fact globalisation creates whole nations of economic deserts for the "indigenous workers" while maintaining the "elite" global corporation owners and the growth of the 1%.

      And that's not me getting all commie, just describing what is happening.

      The ultimate irony is of course when a politician says he/she is on the side of the "indigenous workers" while being neck deep in the same exploitation that lead them there. But i doubt if they even understand that irony.

      Fixing it means telling everyone can't have as much stuff as they *have* been expecting. Everybody gets a little because there is no comparative difference between your wages and the wages of the guy who makes your TV or car. Something that takes 180 man hours to build, costs you a month's money - like it did when stuff was made in the UK for the UK market and we all had much less... It only changed when someone found Johnny Foreigner was capable of working for less money and the cost of shipping it across the world became financially viable. "Made in Japan" was the first sign of it, "Made in China" came next, "incomprehensibly answered in India" or "badly admin'ed in India" the latest.

      Whether you think that reset is what you want is obviously up to you and I'm certainly not advocating either path here, but you certainly can't have it both ways.

      1. Androgynous Cow Herd

        Re: A false start

        In Snow Crash, Neal Stephenson described it as "Once the Invisible Hand has taken all these historical inequalities and smeared them out into a broad global layer of what a Pakistani brickmaker would consider to be prosperity"

      2. Blank Reg Silver badge

        Re: A false start

        One way to offset this problem and help the environment is to make it far more expensive to ship things around the world. That could be accomplished by levying huge fees for ships coming in to port, but only those ships that are burning that sludge they call bunker fuel. That stuff is horrendously polluting, but it is cheap.

        That will force the shipping companies to switch to cleaner fuels and possible scrap some of the older ships, that drives up costs and suddenly shipping $5 t-shirts from China may not make economic sense. It sure would be bad news for dollar stores though.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: A false start

          You could chew up shipping, but those shipping companies are probably more capable of exerting political pressure than even a country like China.

          And it amounts to the same thing, its applying financial penalties for stuff not made here creating protectionism.

          Is protectionism bad? That depends on whether you are making tons of money from exploiting wage differentials on a global basis.

          But do understand when you have those jobs back, you won't be rolling in the cheap consumer goods that you imagined you might.

          1. Blank Reg Silver badge

            Re: A false start

            I'm not so sure about that. with most of the ships and shipping companies registered in various tax havens around the world I expect they have much less clout than you'd think

  4. Imhotep Silver badge

    Given the applicant pool mentioned, these will be entry level jobs for people entering the work force. Of course they'll be low paying.

    But those that prove competent will gain experience and move on to better, higher paying jobs. Some will decide it's not what they want to do and leave the field entirely. And some will stay on, doing entry level work and complain about low wages.

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Or this "promise" will get them a favorable nod from the current administration, a free pass from the next one who don't want bad headlines, and somehow the jobs will never actually materialise

      1. Imhotep Silver badge

        Yep, there have been some of those. Maybe the Foxconn plant in Wisconsin will eventually be up and running, given the supply chain concerns.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Moving on...

      ...if you look at the way the (big) IT world is going, its moving to disposable resources, all of "equal capability" - obviously excluding senior management, they are all worth every dollar and provide unique skills.

      No, the rest get nothing and when you seek to move on, you discover nobody else is paying any more either.

      Much like the crunch on workers like bar/restaurant/supermarket/amazon staff, the world of IT is grinding its way to "any warm fleshbag with a pulse will do" and the cheaper the better. Who cares if you leave, another sucker^H^H^H^H^H^H employee can be found to occupy your virtual seat.

      This is how the big players like IBM, ATOS, DXC, Cap etc are going... and where they go, the rest follow eventually.

      Seriously, downward pressure on salaries in IT is real and only made worse by COVID-19 causing a slump in recruitment coupled with an over supply of applicants.

    3. MOUATIB

      No, being competent with Indian work shop companies has NOTHING to do with moving up the ladder.

      All what you need is a BIG tongue to kiss some A$%

      1. Imhotep Silver badge

        So you take your experience and move on. That's the best way to move up and bump up your salary - at least in my experience.

  5. earl grey Silver badge
    Thumb Down

    Indianapolis?

    Midwest USA with much lower cost of living and lower salaries generally (compared to either coast). I have a feeling there will be a lot of churn on those jobs.

  6. quxinot Silver badge

    The sad and quite scary part is that while low-quality code is fine for some things (your chess app crashes sometimes, darn), it's not okay when we're talking about building infrastructure--nevermind security, another entire can of worms.

    Pay to do it right, or pay to do it twice. There will always be jobs for those to go through and clean up the wreckage. The question to me is where the balance will lie, somewhere between total trash and overbuilt to a needless extent--e.g., where is the good enough line drawn for a given task or product.

    1. sketharaman

      Striking the Balance

      Great question! Especially when the cost against quality is a non-linear scale. I've been in IT for 20+ years. In my experience, if it costs $X to get 70% of a software right, it costs another $X to go to 95% and yet another $X to reach near 100% quality. Quite often, project sponsors forget this and assume that they can go from 95% to 100% by incurring just 5% of the project cost, which is why some software never reaches 100% quality. https://twitter.com/s_ketharaman/status/1181955118482313217 . Also, different usage scenarios needs different levels of quality. https://twitter.com/GTM360/status/1264896602822578178

  7. Facts-are-Facts

    Reality

    The reality is Rump can bloviate and mislead his second grade educated cult. Today, IT is moving to the cloud in the US to address skill shortages. Software abstraction to simple mark up languages makes it simple for anyone to learn front-end programming. Then, flat databases rule the day, No SQL. No RDBMS, etc.

    Machine learning and Artificial Intelligence require higher programming skills, which does not have enough people to meet the demand.

    As usual, Rump is bloviating and lies to his adoring cult.

    By the way, every business regardless of which country it is based is always looking for cutting costs. China has made lowest cost as the only competitive advantage across the globe.

    Even rigister is cuttting costs and asking for donations to survive!

    1. Daedalus Silver badge

      Re: Reality

      Speaking of cults, the cult of "AnyoneCanCode" keeps on going, and going, and going. In reality, even with better tools and high level program languages and systems, about 95 to 98% of the gen pop hasn't a clue.

      Thus pass all those "we will educate the next generation" schemes that promise to take <insert name of high unemployment group> and get them all well-paid jobs. Can't happen, won't happen.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "Infosys to hire"

    Indian company says they are going to hire .

    Indian company says they are going to hire = "BLABLABLABLA"

    All that it means to me is MORE Indians calling me (today is 10/day) for a high level paying job BUT they do NOT tell me how much the job pays.

    When you receive a call from an IT Recruiter with an Indian accent, just END the call on the spot.

    When you receive an Email from an IT Recruiter with an Indian name, just press "DELETE key.

    What a JOKE !!!

    I know what I am talking about, I work 2 years with an Indian company here in America.

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