back to article China slams 'dirty' America's 'clean network' plan, reminds world of PRISM snoop-fest exposed by Ed Snowden

China has ridiculed America's plan to build a "clean network" free from Chinese tech and businesses, particularly in its telecoms infrastructure. The criticism came via an interview with China's foreign minister, Wang Yi, and state-run media outlet Xinhua. The interview appears to have been designed to let Yi speak his mind, …

  1. jake Silver badge

    Exposed by Snowden?

    I guess Perry Fellwock was a figment of our imaginations, then.

    1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

      Re: Exposed by Snowden?

      Thanks for that further deeper info, jake. Greater knowledge is powerful indeed.

      Because of the Fellwock revelations, the "Church Committee" (as it was chaired by Frank Church) introduced successful legislation in 1973 to stop the NSA from spying on American citizens. ...... Perry Fellwock

      Is there anyone here believing that to be still true, or even believing it was ever true?

      Or is it much more likely, almost half a century further on down the pipe/line, that is the abyss from which there is no return and the grizzly bear mantrap into which Uncle Sam has fallen headlong into ..... and some considerable time ago?

      And what are the chances they are stuck in the mire there and be accompanied by Five Eyes cohorts too?

      Indeed, it may be a very crowded hell hole with many hopelessly addicted to the flow of vivid information sought or thought to be worthy of fighting over ..... rather than simply bought and brought into the fold.

      1. Robert Helpmann??
        Paris Hilton

        Re: Exposed by Snowden?

        I... understood almost all of that. I'm going to check Hell for temperature and pigs for wings. Have an upvote.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Simple, add a 1000% tax on all exports to the USA, and nationalise any American company doing business in China.

    Americans will wake up when their iphone costs $10,000, and their clothes cost $500 for a shirt.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      That would just accelerate the move to India and south east asian countries.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Not if China seizes everything BEFORE they can move. Their country, their rules...

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          What are they going to seize, Foxxcon's machinery and inventory? That's not going to stop anything, it can all be replaced and put else where.

          1. Charles 9 Silver badge

            A big foundry like that is a big-time investment on the order of 8-9 figures. That won't be easy to explain to the investors. Not to mention they take time to build and get running. Otherwise, why wasn't there a quick turnover because of COVID?

    2. Peter2 Silver badge

      Americans will wake up when their iphone costs $10,000, and their clothes cost $500 for a shirt.

      That'd just price China out of the market and people would buy from the next cheapest supplier.

      And if every import did cost that much, then it'd simply make onshore manufacturing viable again and Trump would hold a party as he tells Americans that he's singlehandedly saved the american economy from doom and destruction and secured jobs prosperity for everybody in America.

      Hence why for the next 3 months China will carefully avoid any reaction that might help Trump out in a certain impending election.

    3. jake Silver badge

      "Americans will wake up when their iphone costs $10,000, and their clothes cost $500 for a shirt."

      I'm pretty certain that you can already pay upwards of $10,000 for a fancy phone, and last time I checked it was pretty easy to spend twice that $500 on a shirt ... and pre-washed, "distressed", falling apart at the seams jeans can be even more expensive. Worse, it would seem that hoi polloi actually lust after these 'orribly expensive useless bits of haberdashery.

      And they wonder why we can't have nice things ...

    4. DavCrav Silver badge

      "nationalise any American company doing business in China."

      China holds $1.1trn in US government paper. Cancel that in response. See what tit-for-tat on gross stupidity does?

      1. Aleph0

        China holds plain-vanilla U.S. Treasury bonds. Those are bearer and fungible, i.e. the U.S. can't selectively default against a holder they don't like, not without reneging on their whole debt.

        1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

          "China holds plain-vanilla U.S. Treasury bonds. Those are bearer and fungible, i.e. the U.S. can't selectively default against a holder they don't like, not without reneging on their whole debt."

          The current President of the USA has form in that department. He sees bankruptcy as just another fiscal tool in the armoury.

        2. richardalm

          "...the U.S. can't selectively default against a holder they don't like, not without reneging on their whole debt."

          Child's play for The Donald.

      2. Charles 9 Silver badge

        That's not a lot of tit given total US debt is over 20x times that, most of it held by it's own citizens. IOW they may just go "Hell with it" and weather whatever follows.

    5. MrName

      They already require party cadres to be organized and involved in foreign companies. At some point that becomes politicization if not nationalization.

      1. Yes Me Silver badge

        party cadres

        I take it you are referring to Republican party cadres. If so, that's nothing new, it was standard US operating procedure even before the Marshall Plan.

  3. BebopWeBop Silver badge
    Trollface

    ‘Everyone can see that the US goal is to keep its monopoly in science and technology’ says Chinese foreign minister

    So that is another thing the USA and China have in common.

    1. Graham 25

      The difference being that China doesnt plan on actually inventing anything, just stealing it from everyone else.

      1. Geoffrey W
        Headmaster

        They did invent Paper, Printing, Gunpowder, and Compasses. Gunpowder is of debatable worth, but the others are pretty neat.

        Paper and printing to create maps, a compass to find your way about, and gunpowder to kill the natives when you get there. The west has made much use of these things too, for the same purpose.

        1. Kane Silver badge
          Mushroom

          "Gunpowder is of debatable worth, but the others are pretty neat."

          Hey, I like fireworks!

      2. ecofeco Silver badge

        Sounds like the history of America.

        Oh, you didn't know many inventions were stolen by America in the first hundred year of the Industrial Revolution?

    2. This post has been deleted by its author

  4. Potemkine! Silver badge

    the party has the support of the people

    That is the ones not in Laogai. See also HK.

    This is a vile attack against Krusty the Trump. As if he wasn't elected by a majority of voters! Oh, wait...

  5. Big_Boomer Silver badge

    All money is theft!

    China brought itself up to date by stealing IP from USA and the rest of the world but nobody cared because their economy was crap back then. Now that they are economically and technically much stronger and selling their wares outside China that theft becomes more significant in it's effects. China is now innovating themselves but most of that innovation is still based on the earlier IP thefts, and they are continuing to steal IP. Not that the USA or any other western nation is any different. We are all using our national spy agencies to steal IP from others and even from each other. So, the Orange One's latest "pronouncement" is just another bit of theft justified by "national interest" and political manipulation. If you throw crap at other nations, don't be surprised when they throw crap back at ya. It's pathetic and very similar to watching toddlers squabbling over a toy. It'd be laughable if it wasn't for the fact that people lives and livelihoods are on the line, not that the politicians give a rats ass about anyone other than themselves.

    1. Will Godfrey Silver badge
      Pint

      Re: All money is theft!

      Dunno who downvoted you. Thought I should put that right :)

      Oh, and have one of these too ->

    2. Santa from Exeter

      Re: All money is theft!

      sed -i '/s/China/USA/g'

    3. Version 1.0 Silver badge

      Re: All money is theft!

      "China brought itself up to date by stealing IP from USA" - yes, but remember that the reason all the American IP got to China was because American businesses were so busy making a ton of money by moving their production lines from the US to China.

      I have a friend whose company moved the computer production from the US to China, they sent him over there for two years to help get it set up, teach the Foxconn workers in Shenzhen to design new boards and diagnose problems. Then they returned him to the US and fired him.

    4. tfewster Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: All money is theft!

      The US brought itself up to date by stealing IP from Europe and the rest of the world, back in the days of the revolutionaries. And Europe stole IP from China and Arabia. The circle is complete.

      1. ecofeco Silver badge

        Re: All money is theft!

        Exactly.

        Nothing new here and nobody is innocent.

    5. TheInstigator

      Re: All money is theft!

      I think if you go far back enough - almost all countries have taken advantage of another country(ies) to get higher up the ladder in terms of economic growth - The UK did it to the "empire" and "commonwealth" - the US itself was founded on insurrection etc.

      I'm not supporting China, but China isn't doing anything new which other countries haven't done before

  6. 0laf Silver badge
    Big Brother

    ‘Everyone can see that the US goal is to keep its monopoly in science and technology’ says Chinese foreign minister

    Yep we all know that. And we know the Chinese aim is to gether enough intelligence and data, by pretty much any means, to help China establish a monoply in science and technology and expand it's political ideology.

    And we know that corporations (FB, Alphabet, MS, Apple, etc etc) aim is to gether as much data as possible to efficiently exploit national populations as a free resource for revenue.

    And we know the Russians and the Norks ......

    Well I need not go on really....

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      No you needn't have bothered.

      Every country wishes it had a monopoly in some field or other.

      Some countries have the power to make it happen. And it's not just the Russians and Norks. Tell us something we don't know.

      Save your propaganda biases for social media.

    2. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

      In a Nutshell, Effectively FCUKd

      Everyone can see that the US goal is to keep its monopoly in science and technology’ says Chinese foreign minister

      Yep we all know that. And we know the Chinese aim is to gether enough intelligence and data, by pretty much any means, to help China establish a monoply in science and technology and expand it's political ideology.

      And we know that corporations (FB, Alphabet, MS, Apple, etc etc) aim is to gether as much data as possible to efficiently exploit national populations as a free resource for revenue.

      And we know the Russians and the Norks ...... .... Olaf

      Hmmmm? Food for thought there, Olaf ..... Although whenever China, either alone or in consort with the likes of a Russia or a North Korea or any engaging renegade rogue wannabe Caesar or Cleopatra, copies and leads with the US corporations (FB, Alphabet, MS, Apple, etc etc) root methodology, ..... aiming to gather as much data as possible to efficiently exploit national populations as a free resource for revenue, ...... and whenever Novel Valuable Intellectual Property Entrepreneurs are prepared to offer such as may be quite coincidentally disruptive and revolutionary wares exclusively to their nationalised machinery for further Enlightened JOINT AIdVenturing [SMARTR Mentored and Monitored Progress], is the Wild Wacky West effectively screwed, and in an incredibly short space of time too ‽

      And that aint no question .... for such is only natural when the West and their partners are steadfastly oblivious to and/or silently dismissive of smarter reason.

      If you take a thirsty horse to water and it doesn't drink, one chooses a new stallion or mare. IT aint rocket science, is it?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: In a Nutshell, Effectively FCUKd

        And if there are no other animals handy? It's a LOOOONG way back home, my friend.

        1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

          White House Woes Explained ..... Postmodern COSMIC GeoPolitics for Dummies.

          And if there are no other animals handy? It's a LOOOONG way back home, my friend. .... Anonymous Coward

          There'a always transport available. AC, whenever all, just a few, or even just one knows what is ahead in the future is totally different and a great deal better than anything else prepared in the past and active back home, wherever that might be or have been.

          All the current evidence shared on media tells the sad and mad and rad and bad tale that the West has lost its way on that incredible journey, with its investments in failing zombies with incestuous share buy back corporations leading with such as is tantamount to self-serving ponzi-like schemata, rather than betting the farm on the strange unicorns doing virtually everything practically different in novel ventures.

          Such self-satisfying craziness based in and feeding the need for the maintenance and retention of skewed status quo arrangements never ever ends well for those reliant upon its troubles remaining an exclusive executive office secret.

          And it tells one and all everything that they need to know about the present parlous state of human intelligence and the difficulties it is certainly going to experience going forward in any direction one can think of, for smarter folk ensure it is not acceptable and would sensibly provide alternatives which cannot be resisted or denied ‽ .

    3. Clunking Fist Bronze badge

      Haaarrrppp! You said norks! And on my work computer, of all places!

  7. Cuddles Silver badge

    To be fair

    "Without any solid evidence, the US has launched a global campaign against a private Chinese company."

    ZTE and TikTok might have something to say about the implication that the US has launched a campaign against only one private Chinese company.

    1. not.known@this.address Silver badge

      Re: To be fair

      "...against *a* private company..." not "against *only one* private company.

      BIG difference. He didn't say this was the only one.

  8. HildyJ Silver badge
    Facepalm

    It's all about the money

    The US is desperate to stop China from becoming an economic powerhouse. This is why Trump started the trade war. This is why sanctions are focused on financially penalizing Chinese companies. The American Empire (which is based on de facto suzerainty) is breaking down (although some in Britain are trying hard to keep it going).

    Where it goes from here is anyone's guess but it doesn't look good.

    1. Duncan Macdonald Silver badge

      Re: It's all about the money

      Hopefully the opinion polls are correct and Trump will be lose the election in November.

      If Biden wins then in January a lot of Trump's Executive Orders will be cancelled.

      1. Charles 9 Silver badge

        Re: It's all about the money

        Not if Trump and the Republicans salt the land on their way out. They seem to have form with that tactic.

    2. TheInstigator

      Re: It's all about the money

      I wonder what would happen if China played the US at their own game.

      "You want a clean path? Ok - we'll cut everything American out of our infra/country and see how you get on" - let the games commence!

      1. ecofeco Silver badge

        Re: It's all about the money

        You won't have to wonder for long.

  9. MrName

    It does not mean what you think it means.

    In reading this it is helpful to remember two things. First, when the PRC says they want "o work with all countries to maintain a fair, just, open and non-discriminatory business environment, ..." they mean something different for "non-distriminatory" and "open" than others do since their own laws keep most foreign platforms out of their market and since they mandate that party cadres be involved in decisionmaking even at foreign companies.

    Second, they are immune to irony.

    Ultimately what they are really mad about is that Trump is following their model (albeit badly).

  10. Danny 2 Silver badge

    Apologies in advance to anyone born this century

    There were funky China men from funky Chinatown

    They were chopping them up

    They were chopping them down

    It's an ancient Chinese art

    And everybody knew their part

    From a feigning to a slip

    And a kickin' from the hip

    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

    Those kids were fast as lightning

    In fact it was a little bit frightening

    But they fought with expert timing

    There was funky Billie Chin and little Sammy Chong

    He said, here comes the big boss, let's get it on

    We took the bow and made a stand

    Started swaying with the hand

    A sudden motion made me skip

    Now we're into a brand new trip

  11. ecofeco Silver badge

    Pot, kettle

    The three top countries which are responsible for the most hacking in the entire world:

    -China

    -Russia

    ...and...

    -America.

    1. DerekCurrie
      FAIL

      Re: Pot, kettle

      As I have pointed out in the past to members of China's Red Hacker Alliance:

      The USA does NOT hack the world for its intellectual property. That is China's purview. China's CCP must hack for IP seeing as 'communism' destroys the creative/innovative/inventive incentive of its repressed and depressed citizens. The alternative incentive is CRIME, as demonstrated by the activities of China: Criminal Nation.

      As to the worth of the USA's hacking activities in the world, that's debatable and of course is de rigueur as part of any modern country's defence, sad to say. Where the USA government face-plants itself is when it breaks the mandates of the US Constitution and international law. Such US crimes do not meet with my approval. Thank you to Edward Snowden.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Pot, kettle

        "The USA does NOT hack the world for its intellectual property."

        A counter-example is Airbus vs. Boeing.

      2. TheInstigator

        Re: Pot, kettle

        You're naive in the extreme - there have been several documented cases where this has happened and also one situation which I didn't pay much attention to when it was first originally reported, and now can't find details of where a company was undercut on a deal and the information could have only come from one source - i.e. US SIGINT (it may well have been the Airbus v Boeing situation but I can't remember the specific details).

        From reading these forums I believe there has also been a recent example where the US has released the credit card details of a number of citizens from a "hostile" country - again - can't remember the specific details as I've never been one to document each and every negative action taken by a country - it doesn't do any good and in that path lies damnation and madness.

        My point being - if you believe ANY COUNTRY is too morally correct to commit any crime then there is little hope for you. Every country in the world has done something negative - and if they haven't yet they will do in the future - it is the very nature of humanity for people to act in this way ... remember the US, UK, Australia, New Zealand and Canada (aka 5 eyes) were founded on a mixture of domination and insurrection of other countries and cultures.

        An argument could be made that the very nature/existence of 5 eyes is racist - after all there are no non Caucasian countries in that list - and when the list is expanded to all the other various organisations in a similar thread the same pattern exists.

  12. DerekCurrie
    Devil

    Arrogant CCP Wants The World's IP For Free

    WTF are they jabbering about now? - -> "Everyone can see that the US goal is to keep its monopoly in science and technology."

    OIC. They think the world, especially the USA, should fork over all its IP to China for free. That's nothing new. Silly 'communists', aka parasites.

    The solution to the China problem?

    Stop giving them our $$$$$, obviously!

    1. Geoff (inMelbourne)

      Re: Arrogant CCP Wants The World's IP For Free

      Yeah! Damn right. The CCP steals the world's IP for free. And lately, they've been going even further.

      They've been pre-emptively stealing 5G IP 2 ~5 years *before* the USA even invents it.

      Those pesky swine.

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