back to article Trump gloats, telcos weep, and China is furious: How things stand following UK's decision to rip out Huawei

The ink has scarcely dried on the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport's speech to the House of Commons that confirmed Huawei would be banned from the UK. The landmark ruling has drastic consequences for the Chinese comms giant. Its second-biggest business unit is carriers, and Huawei has long been involved with the …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    A sad day

    Really is a sad day, when an overseas government, or indeed, one single person, can dictate to UK companies what technology they can deploy.

    If this was a case of gov.uk asking the telcos to prefer/consider the use of home grown technology rather than imported technology I would fully support it. But it isn't about that as we all know. It's about Boris being Donalds finger puppet and his desperation for any trade shafting, sorry, trade deal. Not that there are any home grown offerings from the likes of Marconi, Plessey, Ferranti, GEC, Racal, etc, etc, as successive governments were quite happy to let them all go to the wall one by one....

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: A sad day

      Agree with every word. Short of actually bending over for Trump, ol' Bojo has toadied to him at every turn, instead of just telling him to **** off and mind his own business. This incompetent, impeached, paranoid and narcissistic USA president does NOT rule the rest of the world, although it's obvious he would like to, and I rather think that he has more pressing things that he should attend to, one of which being his gross mishandling of a certain virus. I'm not sure what is the most dangerous - Trump or the Coronavirus but I think Trump is probably the "winner" here. The man is a danger to all humanity, without a doubt. To think he is in charge of a nuclear arsenal makes me shudder.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: A sad day

        Actually, as we see in the saga of not appointing a chair of the ISC for 7 months and then throwing the toys out of the pram when the committee refuses to rollover and die for Grayling, Bummings and Cojo have imitated the Trump playbook exactly.

      2. Exrugbyman38

        Re: A sad day

        Interestingly Trump will be gone in 4 months. I wonder if his replacement will undo his "achievements" as fast and as assiduously as Trump tried to undo Obamas legacy?

    2. DavCrav Silver badge

      Re: A sad day

      "Really is a sad day, when an overseas government, or indeed, one single person, can dictate to UK companies what technology they can deploy."

      From the article:

      "The starkest words came from the China state-run Global Times. In an editorial, the English-language daily said it was "necessary" for China to retaliate against the UK, "otherwise wouldn't we be too easy to bully?"

      "Such retaliation should be public and painful for the UK," it added."

      I assume you mean this?

      Look, Trump is an utter twat, and Boris is as useless as he is an utter twat. But China is threatening 'public and painful retaliation' for not buying products from one of their companies. Even the US doesn't do that if people buy Airbus rather than Boeing.

      Also, you can always tell what China is up to, because it's usually what it accuses others of. In this case, it accuses the UK of 'bullying' China, by not buying some routers. This new use of the word bullying (I have apparently been bullying McDonalds for years now) means it's them who are simultaneously bullying and gaslighting. As usual.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: A sad day

        Trump's statement shows that the ban is purely a political attack on China.

        Trump banned, well put a 300% tariff on, Canada's competitor to the Boeing 737 - that sounds like bullying

        1. bazza Silver badge

          Re: A sad day

          Trump's statement shows that the ban is purely a political attack on China.

          Of course it is but that doesn’t make it a bad thing. If you can prove that it’s entirely about US domestic politics and nothing at all about China’s reprehensible record in almost everything, their deceit over covid19 being only the latest, then you may have a point.

          Trump banned, well put a 300% tariff on, Canada's competitor to the Boeing 737 - that sounds like bullying

          He tried to, but the legal system stopped him doing so. That’s the difference between China and the US (and other democratic societies) right there.

          1. Roo
            Windows

            Re: A sad day

            "He tried to, but the legal system stopped him doing so. That’s the difference between China and the US (and other democratic societies) right there."

            The threat of a 300% tarrif was enough trash Bombardier's order book and kill off their business. Mission accomplished for Boeing & Trump.

      2. skeptical i
        Thumb Down

        Re: A sad day

        re: "Even the US doesn't [retaliate] if people buy Airbus rather than Boeing"

        Maybe I'm misremembering, but wasn't there some kerfluffle a while back about U.K. (and/or E.U.) being threatened with some sort of trade hitback if U.K. forbade import of U.S. "frankenfood" (genetically modified), or bleached chickens, or something? I remember being incensed that Amurka would bully another country into lowering its standards on what its citizens eat (instead of raising our own) so that lowest-common-denominator "food" processors could pump their swill beyond 'Murka's borders, but there are likely key details I'm forgetting.

        Another thought: If U.K. is offering citizenship (or at least the path thereto) to Hong Kongers (which I loudly applaud), is this going to further taint what remains of U.K./China relations?

        1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

          Re: A sad day

          "Another thought: If U.K. is offering citizenship (or at least the path thereto) to Hong Kongers (which I loudly applaud), is this going to further taint what remains of U.K./China relations?"

          It already has. China are not happy about it. China have been pushing the boundaries for quite some while now and finally countries other than their immediate or nearby neighbours are starting to sit up and take notice.

      3. TheInstigator

        Re: A sad day

        I think it's more China's use of terminology and use of the English language - after all they're not native English speakers and if you look a lot of their other press releases (or whatever you call them), they're full of the same tone/rhetoric.

        Trust me - any country/company who went through something like this would do the same thing - it's just they wouldn't publically say it. The way China engages and uses the press doesn't help progress their side of the argument.

        I've had a long running opinion that essentially the West doesn't really get along with any country it first hasn't beaten in a war of some sort.

        1. Dog Eatdog

          Re: A sad day

          But the West has beaten China in a war - the Opium Wars.

          And the Chinese are still sore about it, almost 200 years later. That's one of the things that gives rise to their bullying behaviour.

          1. Potemkine! Silver badge

            Re: A sad day

            But the West has beaten China in a war - the Opium Wars.

            Add also the Boxer Rebellion. China has plenty of reasons not to trust the West.

          2. TheInstigator

            Re: A sad day

            I'm more referring a more recent/"modern" war - say within the last 100 years

            1. BeefEater

              Re: A sad day

              I may have forgotten, so can you remind me of which countries "the West" has won a war against in the past 100 years.

              1. TheInstigator

                Re: A sad day

                In terms of Britain, their entire empire is essentially based on domination of other countries - sorry - I mean bringing truth, freedom and democracy - my bad.

                America is founded on insurrection - everyone apart from the indigenous people are immigrants - again domination.

                New Zealand - again domination of the indigenous - oh yes the Maori may get along with the settlers, but I'm pretty certain we all have a fairly good idea of what would have happened to them if they had rebelled in the same way the native Americans had and to the same degree.

                Australia - ex penal colony and again - domination of the indigenous people.

                Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying other countries are perfect and without fault. My point being is that I am all for equal opportunities - I keep my distance from most people because I don't like people very much and I generally think at some point they're going to stab you in the back. Countries are just places where there are lots and lots of people - so you get an extension of that.

                There is no "good" person or "good" country - we're all part of a quagmire of excrement.

    3. Al Black
      Stop

      Re: A sad day

      Why is it a sad day to ban Chinese Communist Party kit from sensitive telco systems? Do you want your text messages copied to Chinese Intel centres? Do you want the Chinese Communist Party to be able to shut down your 5G network any time they choose? It is puerile to suggest this is Boris Johnson kow-towing to America, as the same ban is already in place in Canada, Europe, Australia and New Zealand. It is a matter of National Security rather than trade.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: A sad day

        He kow-towing to Putin.

        It's simple, Huawei were prepared to open their kit for the UK to ensure it wasn't backdoored. USA kit we *know* is backdoored because they just slipped a bill *requiring* it be backdoored.

        We know where that Intel is going. Trump has been giving Intel to Putin on supposed terrorist, even as Putin has been ordering the killing of US troops by the same terrorists. If Trump'd kill his own troops for quid-pro-quo, do you imagine he would protect UK secrets? Everything is up for sale here.

        https://www.justsecurity.org/71279/trump-pushed-cia-to-give-intelligence-to-kremlin-while-taking-no-action-against-russia-arming-taliban/

        Can I remind you, that stupid politicians put their government comms systems "into the cloud"?

        Nokia might be a good compromise but Cisco is a disaster.

        I think a lot of people (Boris included) think Trump will be out this election but the GOP have gone full election suppression, they have shown they are perfectly capable of blocking voters and now they have motive. They know he's a puppet, but country be damned!

        South China seas aren't the limits of Xi's empire building clearly, draw a circle around that island he built, extend it all the way out to land, and you can see he plans on controlling those countries.

        Putin is also clearly empire-building an east-west control zone which will give him control of petroleum assets. I'm expecting Georgia or Iran to flip next. Georgia from invasion, Iran from the push-me-pull-you that Putin and Trump are doing.

        The UK most imminent threat is Putin. By far.

        EU's most imminent threat is Putin. By far.

        Putin is running a biological warfare attack against USA. He may not have created the virus, but his guys are certainly helping to try to spread it and kill as many Americans as they can.

        The most urgent threat is Putin & Trump.

        1. Nifty Bronze badge

          Re: A sad day

          How effective was the 'cell' that was supposed to examine Huawei kit from 2010 onwards?

          This:

          https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-30/vodafone-found-hidden-backdoors-in-huawei-equipment

          ...was apparently only fixed last year.

          1. big_D Silver badge

            Re: A sad day

            And how many backdoors has Cisco removed over the last 2 - 3 years, after they were discovered by security researchers, not by studying the source code?

            1. Nifty Bronze badge

              Re: A sad day

              Well known. Cisco however didn't have a British government agency assigned to it whose main function was to look for and close backdoors.

          2. TheInstigator

            Re: A sad day

            Given Bloomberg's known bias I wouldn't trust any of their articles.

            https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/vodafone-huawei-cyber-security-flaws-5g-network-equipment-spying-a8892791.html

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: A sad day

        Except they were already banned from the sensitive parts. The only 5G bits coming from Huawei were base stations and the traffic is all encrypted there. What the UK has just done is the equivalent of banning them from selling mail sorting machines because they might read your letters.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: A sad day

      Trump didn't need to convince Boris, he went to a higher authority - Cummings.

    5. big_D Silver badge

      Re: A sad day

      As a refugee, who worked for Plessey and GEC, with colleagues who joined us from Marconi, Ferranti and Racal, before we got sold off, yet again... Yep, I agree, the UK has done everything it can to marginalise itself in the world of technology and manufacturing over the last 5 decades or more.

      1. W.S.Gosset Silver badge

        Re: A sad day

        OT:

        Big_D, think you'll really enjoy these 2 books , the ICL Anthologies :

        http://www.bitsandbytes.shedlandz.co.uk/hc_books.htm (free)

        As will ANYONE who likes IT hands-on war-stories.

        1. W.S.Gosset Silver badge

          Re: A sad day

          The newsletters on that site also have some great stories too. Eg, the guy measuring voltages (accurately!) with his bare hand, bridging bus bars ...

    6. Exrugbyman38

      Re: A sad day

      Icing on the cake is that the UK Foreign Secretary says UK will take thase rioters who drive mopeds into police and rip up roads and pavements, and spray graffitti over shops and buildings.

      I hope China will appreciate this reciprocal arrangement.

  2. Chris G Silver badge

    Trump: "I did this!"

    Boris: "No, I did it based on British needs and exercising British control over our destiny."

    Trump:" Here Boy! Chockies! Who's a good boy?

    Boris: "Ruff ruff"" Rolls over waiting for his tummy to be scratched.

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Not sure which will be more ironic, Trump telling Boris to take a million immigrants from Hong Kong or Trump ordering Boris to ban immigrants from "China"

      1. TheInstigator

        Funny you should say this - just heard that Trump is denying visas to Huawei employees

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    NSA Backdoors in Cisco and Juniper kit?

    So why are telcos around the world not ripping out Cisco and Juniper kit?

    *

    Ah.....it's OK for the NSA and GCHQ to do their snooping with their chums at Cisco..........

    *

    ...........but when those upstart Chinese might be doing the EXACT SAME THING....absolutely not OK.

    *

    Can Boris and Donald spell "hypocricy"?? Clearly not!

    1. jason_derp Bronze badge

      Re: NSA Backdoors in Cisco and Juniper kit?

      "...........but when those upstart Chinese might be doing the EXACT SAME THING....absolutely not OK."

      Sounds like you get it. Welcome to being involved with America. Show up with a sore arsehole so that it's not as much of a shock to the system once you're done.

    2. HarryBl

      Re: NSA Backdoors in Cisco and Juniper kit?

      I'm so tempted but I'm a kind soul at heart so I won't.

      1. EvilDrSmith Bronze badge
        Devil

        Re: NSA Backdoors in Cisco and Juniper kit?

        Go on, you know you want to....

    3. Commswonk Silver badge

      Re: NSA Backdoors in Cisco and Juniper kit?

      Can Boris and Donald spell "hypocricy"?? Clearly not!

      Shame that you couldn't either...

      1. Intractable Potsherd Silver badge

        Re: NSA Backdoors in Cisco and Juniper kit?

        I think you missed a "whoooosh" and some ruffled hair.

    4. Natalie Gritpants Jr

      Re: NSA Backdoors in Cisco and Juniper kit?

      Actually, yes, it is. There are clear differences between the governments of China and the USA+UK, both in intent and execution of policy.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: NSA Backdoors in Cisco and Juniper kit?

        ...as shown with response to coronavirus.

        China: Organised authoritarian.

        US: Chaotic anti-science authoritarian

        UK: Dithering pseudo-libertarian.

    5. myBiox

      Re: NSA Backdoors in Cisco and Juniper kit?

      What idiotic moronic statements you come out with, really...

      China is a Communist suppressive nation.

      It is persecuting both Christians and Uighurs alike.

      It is persecuting its own people.

      They have taken control of the South China sea (illegally) and provoked many countries in that area while building new island for weaponry.

      Huawei itself was selling (smuggling) banned components to North Korea and Iran.

      They have plotted and achieved the purchase of massive amounts of land and resources (businesses) in foreign countries, clearly with an ulterior motive.

      China is also building a large number of aircraft carriers and destroyers in shipyard scattered around China. Why is that do you think ?

      .. and there is more ...

      Perhaps it is not so much an arse licking party like you say, but actually the West finally waking up and growing some kahunas realizing they need to do something to curb China's growing aggression.

      Grow up and read a bit more before you rabbit off about Trump and Johnson.

      And by the way to the author of this article, perhaps you too should do a bit more research before throwing out your liberal views.

      1. jason_derp Bronze badge
        Pint

        Re: NSA Backdoors in Cisco and Juniper kit?

        "What idiotic moronic statements you come out with, really..."

        Being calm and civil is rarely seen as inappropriate. If your goal was to antagonize everybody in eyes' reach, however, you've done well.

      2. TheInstigator

        Re: NSA Backdoors in Cisco and Juniper kit?

        Ever heard of the phrase "One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist?"

        Every country has done something bad - either now or in the past - why is Britain selling weapons overseas now? In large companies you have to undergo training courses that tell you that although something may not be illegal, you have a moral obligation to do the right thing and any disciplinary will look at whether you did so and the reasons for doing so. Can Britain say it is/was morally correct to sell arms?

        Don't get me wrong - there's always a way you can justify something - but morally if person a sold a gun to person x who then used it to kill person y - surely person a has a legal part to play in any repercussions that follow from this?

        Let's not talk about Tony Blair and 45 minutes ... a country was invaded off the back of that decision and nothing was found. (On a side note, given the Allies have got access to the country, I don't know why they don't just build a base on the sly, and turn around and say "FOUND IT") - justtification complete - absolute vindication!

        Why is America's military budget so big - I can't remember the stats, but I think it is larger than the combination of the next 3 countries underneath it - it's ok when America's on your side, but what if they're not?

        I could go on ... but essentially my point is this - all humans have an element of evil in them - and countries are collections of people.

    6. Hey Lobotoman! CALL -151!

      Re: NSA Backdoors in Cisco and Juniper kit?

      ...and everyone knows that Check Point and Palo Alto founders were former Israeli military intelligence, right?

  4. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    UK PM: "How high?"

    US ambassador: "Sir!"

    UK PM: "How high, sir?"

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      No. How High is a Chinese government appointed member of the board

  5. Qarumba

    China *is* a dictatorship and all we have been doing is lining their pockets while they publicly silence democracy. The sad part is that Britain no longer has the people & companies that could develop this technology (or nuclear technology) and have become dependent on the Chinese dictatorship to provide these.

    I for one welcome this!

    1. John H Woods Silver badge

      re: I for one welcome this

      Me too but, like Iraq, it's for the wrong reasons.

      There was a time when we could have fully justified an Iraq invasion, on humanitarian grounds, and we did nothing. And we should have been putting economic pressure on the PRC for decades, rather than turning a blind eye to, not just lack of democracy, but human rights abuses. What we did, instead, was allow them to weaponize global capitalism against us when, with a bit more international co-operation, we should have been using global capitalism to encourage China to move in the direction of becoming a modern, democratic state.

      1. myBiox

        Re: re: I for one welcome this

        I would agree with you John on some aspects.

        We as a capitalistic world put China in the place they are today, by using that one country to manufacture every damn thing from pharmaceuticals to nuts and bolts. We have built their wealth while they sat back, got rich off our greed for more profit, and lost jobs.

        Now they control the supply lines, which they can shut off whenever they want to in order to cripple us, as has been seen already, which leaves the West in a real hole.

        Along with your thinking yes, the democratic leaders should have poured effort into local manufacturing and resourcing for self sustainability and started to wind back the dollars flowing to China. Thus moving the control from China to the West.

        But unfortunately we do not have very smart politicians generally speaking nor are we as a community willing to pay a bit more for locally made products. Corporate greed for a better bottom line, community desire for cheaper and cheaper products. A.K.A - China superiority.

        We need to change that.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: re: I for one welcome this

          It's called self interest.

          It's the most powerful force on the planet.

    2. TheInstigator

      You could just bomb them back into the stone age to make sure they know their place and won't be able to develop anything useful for a while - it's worked before !

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Forcing China into asymmetric warfare with the west would not be a bright move.

        1. TheInstigator

          Any pretext for a pre-emptive nuclear strike is a good one in my opinion ;) *sarcasm*

  6. Roland6 Silver badge

    What about Huawei's 5G Patents...

    Given it has been acknowledged that Huawei owns key 5G patents, I'm sure Huawei will be reviewing the terms of their usage and potentially withdrawing them from the 5G patent pool...

    1. DavCrav Silver badge

      Re: What about Huawei's 5G Patents...

      " I'm sure Huawei will be reviewing the terms of their usage and potentially withdrawing them from the 5G patent pool..."

      Surely you cannot withdraw patents from FRAND after agreeing to it? It would kind of make the whole FRAND thing meaningless.

      1. DevOpsTimothyC

        Re: What about Huawei's 5G Patents...

        Is that then more or less meaningless than what America is doing?

    2. DS999

      Re: What about Huawei's 5G Patents...

      They can't do that, once committed patents cannot be withdrawn from a pool. That would defeat the whole purpose by allowing companies to contribute patents, get their patents used in building a standard, then once the standard was final pull the patents. They could say "we demand 10x what you would have been paying us previously" and you'd have no choice if you wanted to use the 5G standard.

      1. Dave Pickles

        Re: What about Huawei's 5G Patents...

        According to another site, this has already happened.

      2. Roland6 Silver badge

        Re: What about Huawei's 5G Patents...

        >They can't do that, once committed patents cannot be withdrawn from a pool.

        Well... What is a FRAND Patent?

        I suggest Huawei's patents can be argued to be "IP products and services" which would seem to make them fall under the generic "goods and services" covered by the US government's trade restriction regulatons...

        Their usage (to build products as opposed to contribution to Standards development) certainly does not fall under the exception "work with China’s Huawei to develop standards for 5G and other cutting-edge technologies". So looks like another exception is going to have to be put in place - like yesterday - otherwise Huawei can contribute patents to a FRAND pool, but US companies will be left jerking around in the wind when it comes to using them...

  7. karlkarl Silver badge

    My detailed analysis is as follows:

    [Human rights]

    America: Poor

    China: Very Poor

    Russia: Very Poor

    [Criminal]

    America: Yes

    China: Yes

    Russia: Yes

    So if my privacy and security is going to be ripped away from me regardless as I get digitally raped from every angle... Then America might as well be the one doing it (by an admittedly very small margin).

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      So long as this doesn't affect our arms sales to Saudi Arabia I don't see any reason to bring human rights into it

      1. TheInstigator

        Quieten down load - it's OK when the West does it as it's for freedom, truth and democracy - didn't you get the memo ?

  8. alain williams Silver badge

    When politics meets technical decisions

    From the point of view of today's technical assessment this is the wrong decision. This assumes a benign China - us techies don't like to think that people are nasty (with a few exceptions).

    From a much longer political decision of international geopolitics you might get a different answer: depending on how you value human liberties and your view of Chinese political ambitions.

    If our UK politicians have taken a long view I am very pleased at this rare event - irrespective of them being right or wrong. If they are just bending over for Trump - I am not pleased.

    1. ThatOne Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: When politics meets technical decisions

      > politicians have taken a long view

      Come on, that's impossible (no matter the politicians' nationality)...

  9. 45RPM

    This is what we voted for. If you voted for Brexit, if you voted for the Tories, even if you didn’t vote Tory but you failed to vote tactically at the last election, this is on you.

    It isn’t just the UK that is populated by pig turd thick doofuses either - if only it was - you can tell a low IQ country by how far to the extremes it votes - although right wing extremism is the particular problem at the moment, and there’s nothing centrist about the Tories.

    I’d apologise for the rant, but I’m bloody furious - and I will be for a while yet. And this isn’t about whether or not ditching Huawei is right or wrong - at this point I hardly care. What matters is our motivation - and that’s demonstrably on the cock.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      You do remember that Blair was Labour, right?

      Whoever people voted for we'd have got this.

      1. mevets

        Not tories - brexit

        I think the first UK:USA trade requirement has been delivered. Isn't independence great.

      2. terrythetech

        No, Blair was New Labour - a whole different kettle of poo, er, fish

  10. USER100

    Must be a bad move

    I was unsure what view to have on this issue until, as so often, I was convinced by listening to Iain Duncan Smith - to believe the opposite of whatever he said.

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Must be a bad move

      "I was convinced by listening to Iain Duncan Smith - to believe the opposite of whatever he said."

      He's very good at that.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Must be a bad move

        He's from a long line of incompetent British so-called leaders.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Focusing on market solutions....

    What ever happens please just don't let us end up with the US sh*t show that is their internet providers....

    1. Kernel

      Re: Focusing on market solutions....

      Don't worry - that'll be coming soon after your NHS system has been aligned to the US healthcare model.

  12. TheInstigator

    How soon before ...

    Yi, Oppo, OnePlus, DJI, Zhiyun, Xaomi - to name but a few.

    One thing they all have in common is they're Chinese - how long before they're all found to be security threats - I'll take your bets please!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: How soon before ...

      Think a bit deeper. Are those cheapo phones Critical National Infrastructure? Are they an Availability threat? No.

      1. TheInstigator

        Re: How soon before ...

        Imagine being able to turn all the microphones on at will ... suddenly - yes !

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: How soon before ...

          Your naivety is touching.

          Why do you think intercept evidence can't be used in UK courts?

          https://fullfact.org/law/intercepted-evidence-cant-be-used-court/

          1. TheInstigator

            Re: How soon before ...

            You might not be able to use it in court - but to gain intelligence and an advantage over your adversaries - surely that would be useful right ? Otherwise why would a lot of other 3 letter government agencies invest so much money in SIGINT?

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: How soon before ...

              Of course it's useful.

              But it may well be illegal.

              1. TheInstigator

                Re: How soon before ...

                Oh yes - it's illegal.

                We won't do that then because Western countries never commit crime - we're all for truth, freedom, democracy and justice

                Sorry - you got me there!

  13. Marketing Hack Silver badge

    The Global Times is an offshoot China's Xinhua news agency, which is government-controlled

    The Global Times has no independence from the official position of the Chinese government, and provides English-language official news distribution outside of the PRC. Sadly, very few news sources in mainland China are independent from the government, so take what they say with a grain of salt.

    1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

      Re: The Global Times is an offshoot China's Xinhua news agency, which is government-controlled

      In Blighty you can find government is controlled by offshoots of a news agency which many believe to be hell-bent on rewarding itself with/as a dynasty.

      It is though a mighty fraught enterprise with all manner of twists and turns to negotiate and appease, methinks. Definitely not an exercise for either the fickle and faint hearted or the intellectually deficient.

    2. DiViDeD Silver badge

      Re: The Global Times is an offshoot China's Xinhua news agency, which is government-controlled

      very few news sources in mainland China are independent

      Unlike, say, the Murdoch Press or CNN. Thank goodness the West has such fine, objective journalism.

  14. Hey Lobotoman! CALL -151!

    I see that Trump just dumped his campaign manager because of falling poll results

    Did he use the "it's not you, it's me" speech?

  15. tcmonkey
    Mushroom

    I’m quite sure that I’ll get downvoted into oblivion for saying this, but I’m going to do it anyway.

    This probably is geopolitical rather than being anything to do with security, but with what the CCP has been doing to its citizens over the last few years, they can get fucked. We have all the justifications we need to hit them hard in the wallet.

    1. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
      Alert

      We have all the justifications we need to hit them hard in the wallet.

      Well, Cinia, in the guise of CGN do have us over a barrel with respect to the new nuclear power stations - Hinkley Point C, Sizewell C and Bradwell B. In the case of the latter, the agreement being to deploy CGN's HPR1000 design. As it is, IIRC, the Sizewell C deal gives a premium on the generation tariff.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Over a nuclear barrel...

        there's no need for anyone to have us over a barrel with nuclear power. We've got a nuclear site at Hinckley C and we could put a dozen RR submarine nuclear power plants on it.

        We have to stop letting perfect be the enemy of good.

  16. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

    What pathetic excuses would you like to give for this demented unilateral action ....

    Pompeo goes full retard

    And does the UKGBNI support it? Or are they going to denounce it or just try to ignore it and remain deaf, dumb and blind to it and pretend it is not happening on their watch?

    Over to you, BoJo. Something you can ask Mad Mike when he call on you next week ......... https://www.state.gov/secretary-pompeos-travel-to-the-uk-and-denmark/

    1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

      Ogres 'R' Us on a Maniacal Mission?

      And if you want to know why Pompeo is calling on tiny Denmark [population 5,790,721] .....

      The most recent action against the Nord Stream 2 pipeline was taken by Washington in December, when it disrupted the construction of the project in Danish waters when it was only some 90 miles short of completion. This month, however, Denmark approved a petition that gives the company building the pipeline a technical workaround to the US sanctions, and the works might restart as early as next month. ...... https://www.rt.com/news/494854-nord-stream-unfair-competition/

      1. TheInstigator

        Re: Ogres 'R' Us on a Maniacal Mission?

        I gotta get me some of that Freedom Gas!

        Hmmm mmm mmm !

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    China is a one-party communist state with an awful record on human rights (Uighurs, Tianamen Square), not to mention a long history of IP theft. It's also in an expansionist mode (South China Sea, Belt & Road) that is likely, sooner or later, to have it butting up against the US and other friendly nations. Having a Chinese-owned company run strategic national infrastructure always seemed like a very risky choice. Some folks claim Huawei is not controlled in any way by the Chinese government, but given the requirements of the National Intelligence Law, that seems like wishful thinking, even if the company wanted to remain impartial. The risk is not just spying, but the ability to disrupt national infrastructure.

    1. Julz Silver badge

      Or...

      USA is a two-party capitalist state with an awful record on human rights (BLM, Capital Punishment, Border Control, Drone Strikes), not to mention a long history of IP theft. It's also in an expansionist mode (Iraq , NATO, Safe Harbor) that is likely, sooner or later, to have it butting up against China and other friendly nations. Having a USA-owned company run strategic national infrastructure always seemed like a very risky choice. Some folks claim CISCO is not controlled in any way by the USA government, but given the requirements of the Patriot Act, that seems like wishful thinking, even if the company wanted to remain impartial. The risk is not just spying, but the ability to disrupt national infrastructure.

    2. TheInstigator

      I've always found the ability to see a situation from different viewpoints a very useful aid to help maintain an objective point of view.

      If you were sitting in the East, what would you say about the West?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Overpaid, oversexed and over here.

        ;)

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Trade and geopolitics

    That's all it boils down to. I don't believe for a moment Huawei would be a threat. However, free trade is good; always consensual; never owed. It is up to China now to decide what China is. On its current path, China is looking like a nation that will mostly sell its tech into Africa and a bunch of allied (mostly poorer) nations, while it continues to pursue its local territorial ambitions and the mass internment (and alleged mass sterilisation) of a section of its population, all under the banner of a socialism with Chinese characteristics that increasingly looks like national socialism. If you disagree with what China is doing, you have two tools available: All out war or the levers of trade and sanctions. I prefer the latter; I worry we'll end up with the former.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Trade and geopolitics

      Indeed.

      A relevant phrase I heard this week: "You never kick anyone towards you".

  19. Potemkine! Silver badge

    A clear message to european countries

    Do whatever possible to develop your own solutions. Don't be dependent either of the US or China or you will pay the price for it.

  20. naive

    Being nice is also an option

    The reason for banning them are their suspected ties to the PLA.

    Instead of doubling down on threats like a Mexican drug cartel does, the CCP could have taken steps to take away doubts about the ties between them and Huawei.

    Instead they do nothing in in this sense, threat the rest of the world like they are children, threatening them with a beating if they are not obedient.

    If China wants to be successful in selling tech, they could change their laws, freeing firms of the obligation to cooperate with what the CCP defines as "Chinese security needs", be more transparent and not behave like it is Germany embittered by the Versailles treaty.

    1. TheInstigator

      Re: Being nice is also an option

      This is like Aesops fable.

      Whatever Huawei or China does to dissuade would never be enough. Do you want China to turn round and say "If Huawei finds any crimes being committed against any parties then we allow them not to have to inform us". Do Western companies operate with the same parameters ?

      In the UK, if you go into hospital with a gunshot wound the medics are obligated to inform the police - on the face of it there's no real need for this - but we understand it's because a serious crime has taken place - are you saying because you believe China to be a totalitarian state then subversion is Ok ? Does this mean if someone doesn't believe the Western system is ok then they can do the same thing ?

      Just so that you're aware - in your last paragraph if you replaced all references to China to America the statement would be equally as valid.

      Also - for the record - I don't think one country is better than another - I hate everyone equally.

  21. segillum

    Imputing qualities to others which you yourself possess but cannot or do not wish to own is known to psychoanalysts as 'projection'. Often exhibited by individuals, entities and states alike.

  22. Colonel Mad

    H3C

    What about their stuff, one could re-lable it I suppose, HPE anyone?

  23. Cliff Thorburn

    When present day reality meets past Bond scripts aka Tomorrow Never Dies, all we are currently waiting for is the Mad Murdock Empire to launch the stealth boat and first strike on the east to begin the next chapter of tomorrow’s news today ...

    1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

      Alternative universal narratives needed. Send your scripts to ......

      Not quite so easy as it used to be, CT, with everyone patiently waiting and able to see where the madness is taking media moguls plans for a helter skelter ride.

  24. Cliff Thorburn

    Oh do come on amFM, the narrators of the program are literally tugging on the chain like rabid dogs to turn the program against the East, throwing a niblet to both blue corners followed up by yet another Salisbury pantomime to herd the immunity.

    Heck, I was even asked many years ago if I could write better, then suggestions on a postcard.

    I’m shuffling my deck of illuminati playing cards as we speak, and with both outbreak and pandemic cards clearly on the table, the answer to the question asked nearly a decade ago “where do we go from here” seems to have raised the stakes in the great game quite substantially does it not?

    Interesting alliances, and twists and turns galore to come, yet the corporations still have the sights set at the eastern alliances sipping replica starbucks on replica rolexes, wearing naughty nike’s on their great walled fake iphones, and the salavation of the vast markets untapped with little room to progress beyond their already stretched skins do they not? ...

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Best decision to boot out Huawei.

    After dithering for long the UK has finally booted Huawei from its telecom network. A bold political decision with huge economic and geopolitical impact. The CCP has inveigled itself into influencing most nations decision making process while itself remaining closed to the world, zealously guarding its authoritarian interests and hegemonic designs.

    At some future date China would have grown into a all-knowing grotesque monster with information about the whole world for its manipulation to achieving global hegemony. The UK would be so deeply compromised that it would not know right from wrong and be forced to toe the Communist line.

    Consider yourselves saved from the Commie-trap.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Best decision to boot out Huawei.

      "After dithering for long the UK will eventually boot Huawei from its telecom network in several years time".

      "Already, the US has grown into an all-knowing grotesque monster with information about the whole world for its manipulation to achieving global hegemony."

      TFTFY

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Best decision to boot out Huawei.

      You must be from the US - still paranoid about reds under the bed because your so-called leaders have brainwashed you.

      No doubt you're a strong believer in McCarthyism as well.

      :/

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