back to article US Department of Defense releases list of firms allegedly linked to the Chinese Army. Surprise surprise, Huawei makes an appearance

The US Department of Defense (DoD) has confirmed it placed Huawei on a list of organisations with ties to the Chinese military that trade in the US. While this doesn't have an immediate impact on the firm's business, it opens the possibility for further punitive sanctions down the line. Other businesses that appeared on the …

  1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

    nobody regards BAE Systems as an extension of Westminster

    I think most people regard Westminster as an extension of BAE Systems

    1. Chris G Silver badge

      Re: nobody regards BAE Systems as an extension of Westminster

      One does get the impression they each have a hand in the other's trouser pocket.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: nobody regards BAE Systems as an extension of Westminster

        They learnt that at Public School. Something the staff have to watch out for.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The Reg might note however

    that Saudi Arabia is not a democracy either and still UK government is fine with that. US & Canada even call them a partner. So, what is so special about China, what makes the Western democracies lose sleep about it ?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The Reg might note however

      China has its own armaments industry, its own silicon fabrication, steel industry, you name it. Saudi has a Western-supported kakistocracy sitting on a pool of dollars and oil. No dollar, no arms, soon be a war zone.

      I do think, though, that perhaps Apple is the only very large US corporation that doesn't have links to the US military, so maybe the US does have a point. In this one case.

      1. Paul Hovnanian Silver badge
        Trollface

        Re: The Reg might note however

        "kakistocracy"

        As opposed to a kekistocracy?

      2. DS999

        Re: The Reg might note however

        I agree about Apple, but I would also include Facebook in the list of very large US corporations that isn't likely to have any links to the US military.

        1. jgarbo
          Devil

          Re: The Reg might note however

          Any large, influential telecomms company will automatically be under intel surveillance and eventual control. Inevitable. Cook's squeaking about iPhone sanctity is a farce. We can crack any iPhone here (Bangkok) in 20 min for about $5. Smile included.

      3. vtcodger Silver badge

        Re: The Reg might note however

        Apple is the only very large US corporation that doesn't have links to the US military

        Indeed, it'd be interesting to know if the Chinese have a list of corporations with ties to the US Military Industrial Complex. And if so, who is on the list.

        I'm also curious if there's actually something special about Huawei that makes it such a frequent target of Donald the Useless and his minions. Could be. But I can't help suspecting that somewhere in the vast criminal conspiracy that is the Trump administration some person or persons are somehow profiting bigly from the US beating up Huawei.

        1. W.S.Gosset Silver badge
          Facepalm

          Re: The Reg might note however

          "curious if something about Huawei"...?! I'm lost for words.

          If you are THAT decoupled from even widely reported news, you might be well advised to keep away from the near lunatic conspiracy theories.

          Re Huawei: massive reporting of widescale and massive and energetic whole-corporation IP theft. Right down to a system of formal awards and profit sharing, for employees presenting stolen IP to the company. Just on THIS site, ElReg commentards with close low-level experience pointing out total fleecage, eg chap recently re auditing Huawei routers as part of big procurement assessment and discovering they'd just lifted Dell's firmware code lock stock and barrel. Or just consider that what wotsername is currently held for in Canada for extradition to USA is roughly the same illegal tactics of shell-company-chain deceit as Enron's (and it was the banks who triggered THOSE Huawei charges, not the US govt). And she personally is on public record crowing about Huawei breaching the law in major ways without getting caught.

          Just for example.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            @W.S.Gosset - Re: The Reg might note however

            Yeah, the banks. Sure!

            1. W.S.Gosset Silver badge

              Re: @W.S.Gosset - The Reg might note however

              IIRC, HSBC was the initial whistle-blower.

              But yes, the banks.

              Basically, they were following up some oddities and uncovered the fake and falsely interstitial shell companies, and determined that the transactions were not just being hidden but had no other possible outcome or purpose than to weasel past US sanctions, but were still being piped through channels subject to US law. (Dumb as.)

              To be fair, there was no patriotism or higher virtue in the banks' decision to flag it up, it was pure self-interest/self-protection. The banks at that point were themselves looking at major fines if it came to light later and it was clear they'd known. And the structure was so primitive and shitly done that it was like the Chinese had just read about the technique and had copied it but hadn't really understood it. So it was just a matter of time before it came to light.

              If you haven't been paying attention, might be a good idea not to issue judgements about it or to attempt extremely self-embarrassing snark.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            @W.S.Gosset - Re: The Reg might note however

            Care to point us to those public records ? "A chap saying things here" is just hearsay. Something more precise would help.

            1. W.S.Gosset Silver badge

              Re: @W.S.Gosset - The Reg might note however

              JFGI

              As per immed.previous post:

              If you haven't been paying attention, might be a good idea not to issue judgements about it or to attempt extremely self-embarrassing snark.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Pooh Bear's telecommunication wing.

  4. Nick Ryan Silver badge

    The Reg might note however, that BAE doesn't operate within a state run by a single governing party, with no free press.
    Unfortunately we are heading this way... :(

    1. disgustedoftunbridgewells Silver badge

      We have a free press. A free press that is so free that it is dedicating all of its energy to attack the government.

      We have multiple political parties. It's not the government's fault that the opposition is an unelectable, anti-semitic marxist rabble ( hopefully partly in the process of growing up ).

      You people with your "we live in a dictatorship, dude" bore me to tears. We don't. Grow up.

      1. W.S.Gosset Silver badge

        This thumbs-up button is broken. It only works once.

        PS: I only discovered last week that your username was invented by Frank Muir and Denis Norden. In their landmark first radio show.

        (Similarly, the genius Monty Python sketch "4 Yorkshiremen" was written by and originally performed by The Goodies. They're okay with the fleecage because A/ comedy's mutually consensual subculture B/ Monty Python _asked_ first.)

        1. disgustedoftunbridgewells Silver badge

          My understanding of my username is that a local Tunbridge Wells newspaper a few decades ago was short of correspondence for its letters page, so had staff write in themselves, often ended with phrases like "Disgusted, Tunbridge Wells"

          1. W.S.Gosset Silver badge
            Happy

            FM & DN were routinely using the phrase on BBC radio in the 50s and early 60s! :D

            so that's, what, 7 decades ago?

            1. W.S.Gosset Silver badge

              I'll try to dig up the name of the radio show it was on.

              1. W.S.Gosset Silver badge

                "Take It From Here" (TIFH). 1947 onwards.

                And my memory cocked up the dates. It was only definitely from the 60s.

                The early Sixties was, of course, the period when a breakthrough was made in the language and subject matter considered acceptable in BBC TV. This relaxing of strictures was greeted with delight by progressive liberal minds and with horror by 'Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells' (who was, incidentally, an off-stage character in _Take It From Here_, played by Wallas Eaton

                -- "A Kentish Lad", F.Muir (autobiography), 1997, p261 of 427 in the 1998 Corgi edition, Great Britain

                May or may not have appeared before the 60s but from this (with ref to the coruscating and geniusly inventive gentle satire of FM&DN) (Frank Muir's _My Word_ story/ramble for Maybe It's Because I'm A Londoner is burned into my brain) , I personally lean towards believing that this was his/her/its first appearance.

  5. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

    In China

    For the list, it would be much shorter if you only included companies that do not have ties to the PLA, may be a blank sheet.

    1. Kabukiwookie Silver badge

      Re: In China

      Same goes for corps lonked to the US gooberment.

      The one-party state in China has at least raised a record amount of people out of poverty in the last 5 decades, while the fake 2 party democracy in the US has brought a record number of people into poverty after having a very healthy middle class 50 years ago.

      1. DavCrav Silver badge

        Re: In China

        "The one-party state in China has at least raised a record amount of people out of poverty in the last 5 decades"

        What happened a little before those five decades, do you remember?

        1. jgarbo

          Re: In China

          You mean kicking out US backed murderous warlords, eg Chiang Kai-shek, who went on to slaughter the locals in Taiwan? Or someone else?

          1. DavCrav Silver badge

            Re: In China

            "You mean kicking out US backed murderous warlords, eg Chiang Kai-shek, who went on to slaughter the locals in Taiwan? Or someone else?"

            I mean the bit where Mao killed 40m people, in the second great loss of lie in the history of the world (after WWII). That's the government being praised for bringing so many out of poverty here.

            1. Kabukiwookie Silver badge

              Re: In China

              Please keep ignoring any event that was the instigation to that.

              No sir, the armory just blew up by itself. It can't have anything to do with the fuse I lighted 15 minutes ago. Those two events are obviously completely separate from one another.

              So why does the US have presidents on their money, while they were in charge of the military wiping out the native americans?

              Do you know the meaning of 'hypocrisy' and 'double standards' and 'people in glass houses'?

          2. naive

            Re: In China

            Replace one murderous warlord by a puppet of Josef Stalin, who successfully tried to outperform its master when it come to mass murder, you mean by this ?.

            Nikita Chroesjtsjov apologized for what Stalin did, Mao is still proudly present on bank notes and public buildings.

            To me it proves Asians are aliens, hard working and brilliant, on the other side they allow a murderous monster like Mao a place in the Sun, and support a fascistic regime, albeit with a hammer and sickle label stuck to it, to exist and put to world in fear for a 1930's scenario of escalating territorial disputes with its neighbors.

            Chinese people may be nice, but organizations linked with their fascist regime should have no place in infrastructure of the free world involving information processing.

            1. Cuddles Silver badge

              Re: In China

              "To me it proves Asians are aliens, hard working and brilliant, on the other side they allow a murderous monster like Mao a place in the Sun, and support a fascistic regime, albeit with a hammer and sickle label stuck to it, to exist and put to world in fear for a 1930's scenario of escalating territorial disputes with its neighbors."

              Wait, those facists back in the 1930s were Asian? Because otherwise it seems a bit odd to call all Asians aliens for acting exactly the same way as Europeans (and everyone else for that matter, there's a reason we call it "human nature").

          3. W.S.Gosset Silver badge
            Facepalm

            Re: In China

            Spectacular revisionism.

            To understand for just how LONG Mao was playing a two-faced parasite game at the violently lethal expense of "the little people", go through the first-person front-line records of the Japan vs China war leading up to and during WWII. Hint: Chiang Kai-shek was a pussy.

            And Taiwan? Are you out of your mind? Are you THAT unaware of of the prior invasions by China of Taiwan? The mass-murderous subjugations? The appallingly mens-rea and inhumane long-game stated in writing repeatedly for years?

            Do you even know what "raw food" vs "cooked noodles" means?

            Hint: preceded Chiang Kai-shek. By centuries. Hint: Hong Kong is currently resisting the water.

            Ignorance plus Arrogance does not equal Expert. No matter how much Arrogance you add.

            Challenge, Mr SuperExpert: without consulting the web: how many native Taiwanese _races_ are there?

            For bonus points, explain current geographic clumpings.

        2. Kabukiwookie Silver badge

          Re: In China

          A little before those 5 decades China was extremely poor, strangled economically by the UK with sanctions (which is how the UK got Hongkong) and a dumping ground for british drug pushers who didn't care that their actions and short term greed were destroying a whole society.

          Then after the 2nd ww, there were two leaders; one communist, one capitalist and a puppet of the powers that kept China drugged and docile for so long. For some reason the majority of the chinese people rejected the puppet, who fled to an island off the coast called Formosa, now Taiwan.

          So. Did you know what happened in the decades before the last 50 years?

          I actually highly doubt it. I think you've been taught things similar to 'the US won the 2nd world war (with some minor token help from others).'

          1. W.S.Gosset Silver badge

            Re: In China

            > the majority of the people rejected the puppet

            No. Christ no. Madness.

            You're "Projecting" democracy where none existed.

            It was a straight military action between two armies which Mao won by overwhelming numbers and then Mao stepped his own men into the existing and verrrrrry longstanding existing society power structures. All hail the new king, same as the old king.

            Four legs good, two legs better. Life repeating art 10+yrs later.

            As to why Mao won: he and Chiang Kai-shek were notionally co-generals vs the Japanese and coordinated closely on tactics, and each time Mao bullshitted and on the day left CKS's army holding the baby. End of WWII, Mao's remaining army had multiple-more surviving soldiers. The end.

            Parasitism works. Lying works. False Face works.

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: In China

          Only the British could be so obsessed with what happened more than half a century ago. I fear that in future we will be required to save our bread ration in order to have something to eat on the massive VG (Victory over Germany) celebrations at which attendance will be compulsory, while Rees-Mogg takes the crawl past of the tenants and serfs in full Victorian gear.

          Mao and the Cultural Revolution were the after effects of WW2. They are not relevant to a discussion of the US attempt to stay on top of the world in 2020.

          1. Kabukiwookie Silver badge

            Re: In China

            Of course you're right.

            History doesn't matter. Context doesn't matter. All events happen in isolation.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: In China

              That straw man is not what I wrote.

              1. Kabukiwookie Silver badge

                Re: In China

                That straw man is not what I wrote.

                You did not write this?

                Mao and the Cultural Revolution were the after effects of WW2. They are not relevant to a discussion of the US attempt to stay on top of the world in 2020.

                These events are very much relevant and connected without any doubt in my mind. Denying they are not is ridiculous and delusional.

                Unless you meant something different, I think you should probably look up the meaning of strawman argument.

          2. disgruntled yank Silver badge

            Re: In China

            So it was you Britons who dressed up in the snappy duds for the Victory Day parade in Moscow this week? I must say you looked spiffy.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    It's a list made by DoD, so it's basically meaningless *trade* politics: *Any* major competitor for US companies will be on the list.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Red is the new Blacklist - again.

    "Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the Communist Party?"

    1. Mike 16 Silver badge

      Re: Red is the new Blacklist - again.

      IIRC, the Red Scare was indirectly responsible for the creation of the much loved (in some quarters) LGP-30.

      WARNING: From memory, not re-researched for this comment ---

      Stan Frankel lost his security clearance (after working on the Manhattan Project) because his grandfather had some connection to the Communist Party. As a result, he ended up teaching, but he had caught "The computing disease", and become dependent on computing, so he designed a _very_ simple computer for Cal Tech, which was then licensed and produced, and sold well.

      Without politically motivated harassment of tech types, where would (useful) new products come from?

      1. Kabukiwookie Silver badge

        Re: Red is the new Blacklist - again.

        Without politically motivated harassment of tech types, where would (useful) new products come from?

        Without large corporations such as MS screwing over and destroying small innovative companies such as Netscape, where would the state of technology be like now?

        I'll tell you where it'd be. A lot better than the mono culture we're experiencing now.

  8. W.S.Gosset Silver badge
    Angel

    Hikvision

    I always assumed they were Alabama based.

  9. crayon

    "The Reg might note however, that BAE doesn't operate within a state run by a single governing party, with no free press."

    What has that got to do with anything? We all know that the weapons industry (as well as the financial sector) is the US equivalent of social security. A corrupt revolving door.

    And you could've chosen a relevant article to link to. The West is supposed to have a free press, the virus was known to the world since at least the beginning of January. Why did the West's free press allow so many people to die?

    "You're "Projecting" democracy where none existed."

    Things you should know:

    The common folk described the Nationalist army as soldiers by day and bandits by night. The Communists in contrast were much more disciplined and treated the peasants with respect. So if you was a peasant at that time, the chances are you would support the Communists.

    The Americans at that time were wary of supporting Chiang Kai Shek. They knew how corrupt the Nationalist government was and much of US aid qas pilfered by Chiang and his cronies. But Chiang's allegedly charismatic wife was able to persuade the Americans to continue supporting Chiang, until the US's unnatural hate of Communists took over and hence needed no further persuading.

    Chiang described the Communists as a disease and a greater threat than the Japanese and hence the Commies must be gotten rid of before fighting the Japanese. Exasperated by this the Commies captured Chiang and "forced" him to fight the Japs.

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