back to article Hey NYPD, when you're done tear-gassing and running over protesters, can you tell us about your spy gear?

New York City Council has overwhelmingly voted to require cops to report their use of surveillance technology. The Public Oversight of Surveillance Technology (POST) Act has been languishing in limbo for three years though was passed on Thursday with a veto-proof 44-6 vote. It, and five other bills aimed at curbing police …

  1. holmegm Bronze badge

    First of all, it's "protests", scare quotes needed. They are really riots.

    Secondly, if it's time to "vote for change", then I guess we'd better figure out who runs all these big city police departments, and vote them out, right? They have been run for decades by the same group, so that should be fairly easy. What's that ... no? Not what you meant?

    1. diodesign (Written by Reg staff) Silver badge

      Protests

      Nah, it's 90%+ peaceful protests. What you see as riots is people fighting back after the police lose their cool and fly off the handle unprovoked. If you live in the cities where protests are taking place, it's pretty obvious.

      C.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Pederson case still open

        You might recall the initial Minneapolis looting incident, started by a white guy smashing the windows of Auto Zone while dressed in full man-in-black outfit with black gloves, black hood, and a gas mask. A disguise that is obviously useless against the police, because he stands out.

        They will have spotters and aerial surveillance of the crowd, and they'll just arrest him for smashing the windows and take off his mask and gloves to fingerprint him. Yet didn't.

        A black man in pink, 'challenges him' carrying a pizza box, which clearly is a prop, as later on, he has it under his arm vertically and acts more like a lookout for MIB guy, looking around as MIB is putting away the hammer into his bag. Inconsistent behavior.

        So he's obviously an agent provocateur duo with no fear of the police. People claim it is Officer Jacob Pederson, matching a face-on view through the mask to his face.

        There's quite a good walk-through here.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EdAh09_SRs

        Police have denied it was Pederson. I think its Pederson. It would seem to be pretty easy to locate at minimum the man in pink of the duo.

        IMHO Autozone insurers needs to sue the St Pauls PD for the looting and the damage, and so do the rest of the insurers paying out for that. Employ private investigators locate the man in pink, tie him to Pederson, sue and get your money back. I suspect it would be a fairly easy win. I don't think you can rely on the police investigating the police in this case. All that surveillance tech they had, it would be difficult to explain how they failed to arrest the instigator of the looting when he's right there all decked out in a very easy to spot outfit!

        1. DJO Silver badge

          Re: Pederson case still open

          All those fires.

          Strangely once the police stopped throwing flash bombs and flares all over the place the fires stopped breaking out.

          I'm not saying the police deliberately started fires but those fireworks don't just go out as soon as the police want and one rolling under a car could easily rupture the fuel line.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            $8.8 trillion looted

            If the window smashing is the police, and the fire is the police, then what you're left with is people taking stuff they don't own and not paying, i.e. the looting part.

            May I just point out, that the Federal Reserve's balance sheet has grown by $8.8 trillion, i.e. ~40%+ of GDP is a man changing a number in a spreadsheet and allocating that money to his buddies in the financial industry to buy up assets at distressed prices.

            Massive LOOTING of the US economy. That ontop of the $500 billion looting that Mnuchin gave to his bank buddies and refuses to document, ontop of the $2 trillion looting from future kids by loading them with the debt.

            Some looting is so huge you just cannot get your head around the massive scale of it.

            Maybe negotiate those contracts in Euros or Sterling, because there's going to be a flood of fake Trump dollars coming onto the market soon enough. Laundering those Trump dollars is bad enough, but if there are 2 or 3 fale Trump dollars coming down the line for each real dollar, you would be dumb to accept dollars as future payment right now. Let some other idiot accept those 'shiny-beads' for 'Manhattan-island' assets.

            1. richdin

              Re: $8.8 trillion looted

              A study was made whether the tribe of Indians who sold Manhattan Island got stiffed or not - turned out that the $24 deposited in an account with compound interest for 400 years was worth more than the combined real estate on the Island!!

              https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/manhattan-island-deal-provides-historic-compound-interest-lesson-37185530.html

              1. Michael Habel Silver badge

                Re: $8.8 trillion looted

                Time to cash out then before all that negative intrest turns it back into 24$ of the modern day stuff.

            2. Michael Habel Silver badge
              Mushroom

              Re: $8.8 trillion looted

              Trump Dollars? LOL I guess you either faild to learn about what happed to the last President that decided to try, anf regin in the Fed... (Which is even less Federal then FedEX BTW!). Or, you were to young to have seen it. To add further insult to said injury. They also stamp his likeness onto their 0.50¢ peices. But, I agree the Fed should be nuked from orbit, as its the only way to be sure.

      2. Cederic Silver badge

        Re: Protests

        In London "largely peaceful" protests resulted in 27 police officers being injured.

        -- https://twitter.com/bbcnews/status/1269574979680702470?lang=en

        Those police officers were not in riot gear, didn't attack the crowds, actually kneeled before the baying mob, allowed statues and war memorials to be defaced.

        What I see as riots are the ignorant fools using the death of a man as an excuse to pursue their anti-Government agenda through use of violence with a small number of idiots using that as cover for their criminal looting.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Protests

          "What I see as riots are the ignorant fools using the death of a man as an excuse to pursue their anti-Government agenda through use of violence with a small number of idiots using that as cover for their criminal looting."

          I would suggest looking more closely at some of the deaths that have occurred during police calls over the last 18 months in the US. It's not pretty reading - just the statistics for police shootings is horrific versus other countries i.e. in 2019 1536 were killed by law enforcement in the US versus 3 in the UK - US police escalate situations until someone dies rather than attempting to manage conflict and de-escalate situations. For those affected, the only thing that has changed is more US police are being caught on camera acting illegally and the protects are happening because people want change with the pandemic providing economic conditions that may allow it to happen this time versus the protests over the last 30 years that have failed to alter law enforcement behaviour and officers that do kill suspects are protected from prosecution and often have long histories of violent treatment of suspects. The argument that it is a few bad apples is hard to agree with when the officers involved have often killed multiple times in a variety of situations and any attempt at public scrutiny is quickly shutdown.

          Here's a short list to get started - feel free to research around these to form your own opinion:

          - George Floyd

          - Breonna Taylor

          - Dion Johnson

          - Wayne Jones

          - Daniel Shaver

          1. P. Lee Silver badge
            Devil

            Re: Protests

            Wow. 80% of those in your list were men.

            The police must really hate men.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Protests

              "Wow. 80% of those in your list were men."

              It's unrepresentative - in 2019 it was 95% male, 5% female.

              In terms of race, its 37% white, 24% black, 19% unknown and 17% Hispanic with Pacific Islanders/Native Americans/Asians taking 1% each.

              Stats taken from https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/

              This site also has links to many of the news stories behind the deaths but unfortunately mean are not accessible outside the US or lack any real independent investigation/video evidence to support the police narrative of events.

              And here's a video of a traffic stop for having a gun in the car in Atlanta. No gun was found and the man was released without charge the following morning after having treatment for a broken arm and cuts from the glass.

              1. low_resolution_foxxes Bronze badge

                Re: Protests

                I saw some interesting stats the other day. Rough figures were:

                -85 black Americans shot dead by police in 2020 so far (population 43 million)

                -30 US cops shot dead (from a population of 700,000)

                It seems to work both ways. While resisting arrest is usually the trigger point for an escalated conflict. Certain communities are more likely to resist arrest (for example, Asian people are 3x less likely than white people to get shot).

                They (Ameeeericans) need to sort their crap out obviously. But it is hard to know where to start (we all know America needs to reduce their quantity of armed humans, but that's going to be a long hard political war).

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: Protests

                  "It seems to work both ways. While resisting arrest is usually the trigger point for an escalated conflict. Certain communities are more likely to resist arrest (for example, Asian people are 3x less likely than white people to get shot)."

                  This is true to an extent in inner suburbs, but many of the shootings involving US police happen outside of these areas.

                  There is a common theme of a police officer pulling over a car (more likely to be a black driver OR it is a "person of interest". A person of interest usually has low level crimes such as outstanding fines or show has not meeting bail conditions or similar that is just as often slow admin or too poor to pay as an actual offence) and call for backup so that 2-4 units appear. The traffic stop escalates to resisting arrest as more commands are shouted at the suspect and it ends up with violence, usually against the suspect. And if someone gets jumpy, the suspect is shot. Often for the most minor crime.

                  The reality in the US is that the army should replace the Police because they are more interested in escalating tension and avoiding violence because that is what they are trained to do. While the Police training Police get for de-escalation/keeping the peace borders on non-existent on many areas.

                2. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: Protests

                  "But it is hard to know where to start (we all know America needs to reduce their quantity of armed humans, but that's going to be a long hard political war)."

                  I think there are two places too start:

                  - address scope creep in the US police. Get them to focus on law enforcement and leave social care to people who have an answer that isn't just locking up the poor and mentally ill.

                  - limit gun ownership. The communities hit hardest by firearms get very little in the way of actual protection based on the statistics and it leads to harassment of the innocent and violence resulting in more deaths for law enforcement and the wider community.

                  Do I expect either to be addressed in the near future? I'm optimistic but sceptical that it will happen quickly.

          2. Michael Habel Silver badge

            Re: Protests

            Fine... I looked.... Besides the fact that you wouldn't know these People from a hole in the wall... (Dont mind me too much. I wouldn't be able to either.) How does the death by throwing rocks at some random woman in the middle eastern sh--hole affect me? Answer is It does not. So why does everyone start caring for the random stranger now? WHY NOW?

            Couldn't possibly be that half of the World having been stuck at home are now suddenly looking for something to do.

            Let me put this another way... Where was the outrage Michael Brown? Does anyone still remember him or even care?

            Again probably not. Because that happend under Brack Husains Admin.

            1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

              Re: Protests

              "under Brack Husains Admin."

              I would have downvoted you anyway, but that childish phrase garners an automatic downvote every time. Shame you didn't start your post with that so I could have saved the time it took to read the rest of it.

          3. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Protests

            And gang violence has killed or injured how many?

            And locals helped the Police track down and arrest the gang members how many times?

            One innocent person killed or inured by the Police is too many, but how many innocents have been caught up in gang violence? But somehow this rarely gets mentioned - perhaps because it does not fit your chosen narrative that the police are the root of all evil, maybe?

            You also conveniently forget to mention the number of times police officers have been attacked - and it might have escaped your attention, but some of those who have ben attacked and killed were black officers - it is kind of hard to justify violence supporting "Black Lives matter" when they are the ones killing blacks, don't you think? Or is killing white police officers somehow acceptable to you? Bit racist, isn't it? What about the other ethnic groups they "accidentally" kill? Don't they matter either, because they are not black? Or does being in the police somehow make someone "raceless" or "colorless"?

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Liar, she hit a traffic light

          27 Injured is a self claim by the police. Their big claim is the officer knocked from his horse!

          OK, so lets go find the video and verify

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89diMZg-uCA

          Nope, you shouldn't be trying to use horses to round up protestors, and if the horse bolts and you hit a traffic light, that's an accident.

          Seriously WTF using mounted police against a crowd. They could have killed someone. They are not responsible for your horse bolting from being put in such a situation. The RSPCA needs to go look at WTF the officer was doing attacking protestors with horses.

          @"Those police officers were not in riot gear, didn't attack the crowds, actually kneeled before the baying mob, allowed statues and war memorials to be defaced."

          This is not true, you sir are a liar. You can clearly see the line of riot police the mounted police were trying to drive them into even in your video.

          1. My other car is also a Trabant.

            Re: Liar, she hit a traffic light

            During the American Embassy demonstration of 1968 police on horses were approaching a nonviolent section of the crowd rather aggressively. A young woman with an extremely U voice called out very loudly "Come any closer and my father's going to tell the Chief Constable about this."

            They decided to go and look for some less well connected victims and we all breathed again.

          2. Danny 2 Silver badge

            Re: Liar, she hit a traffic light

            Lion dung.

            Even trained police horses have an instinctual terror of lions. To deter a police horse charge at a protest in Govan they bought lion dung from the zoo and spread it as thin brown line across the road. It worked, the horses wouldn't come anywhere near it.

            If you are in a demo next to a police horse, stay close to its haunches. Not behind it or it will kick you, not at the front or the officer will baton you.

            It's weird what you learn on demos. I never even knew you can buy lion dung - apparently so nutrient rich that rose bushes thrive in it.

            1. Chris G Silver badge

              Re: Liar, she hit a traffic light

              Lion dung

              I call BS on that, having kept, bred and trained my own horses for over twenty years in the UK, you would be amazed at what a horse can be trained to do.

              To be honest I haven't tried lion dung but we used to get tiger dung pellets to keep the cats off the flower borders, it never stopped the cats digging up the marigolds or the horses (and goats) from nibbling where the dung was.

              Look up the Cadre Noir, those horses are trained to heavy cavalry standards that date back centuries, should you wish to you can run a horse directly into a screaming horde of soldiers, machine guns or cannon. Humans are able to train horses partly because they are higher in the food chain, just as scary for a horse as a lion.

              1. Danny 2 Silver badge

                Re: Liar, she hit a traffic light

                It's not BS, it's LS and I know it works because I've seen it work. You can buy a sack from a zoo and test it on your horses. Maybe police horses could be trained to overcome their natural terror of lions but I assure you that they aren't.

                I looked for a supporting link and found an FT article about using lion dung on a garden to scare away cats.

                We are not scarier than lions, evolutionary speaking, not to cats and not to horses.

          3. iron Silver badge

            Re: Liar, she hit a traffic light

            > Seriously WTF using mounted police against a crowd.

            You've obviously never been to a football match. Controlling crowds with horses is standard operating procedure for UK Police every Saturday. And, those are peaceful crowds who aren't protesting, rioting or looting. (generally)

            1. LucreLout Silver badge

              Re: Liar, she hit a traffic light

              You've obviously never been to a football match. Controlling crowds with horses is standard operating procedure for UK Police every Saturday. And, those are peaceful crowds who aren't protesting, rioting or looting. (generally)

              Quite. I've never understood the rampant hysteria around football violence. I mean it IS inexcusable, however it's always had fewer serious incidents per capita than the Notting Hill carnival, always fewer incidents than any of the 'protests' London endures from the usual left-wing mob. If just one week there was as much violence at football matches, football would be banned for life.

              The problem people moaning about the police have, is that they don't like being policed. Well, unfortunately, people need to be policed, and the alternative to a trained, experienced, and organised police force is that we return to what we had before - sending the boys round. The absence of legal justice will lead inevitably to the rise of natural justice.

              1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

                Re: Liar, she hit a traffic light

                Maybe you are too young to remember the days of the "firms" travelling to football matches specifically to fight the other "firms". It was a weekly occurrence all around the UK and lead to massive police presence at matches, away and home fans being strictly segregated, away fans being escorted in "parades", flanked by 100's of officers and horses from the bus/train stations to and from the ground, and an entire generation of young kids not being taken to matches, and the threats and fines from UEFA and FIFA against British clubs because of the violent fans.

                Of course, the UK wasn't alone in this and some countries are still being sanctioned because of their fans behaviour to the extent that some internationals have been held behind closed doors cutting off that income stream.

          4. Cederic Silver badge

            Re: Liar, she hit a traffic light

            "if the horse bolts [..] that's an accident" ? No wonder you posted anonymously, I wouldn't put my name to that grotesque propaganda either.

            If the horse bolts because violent rioters are throwing bicycles at it, that's not an accident.

            I don't see the police in this clip wearing riot gear. They're certainly being attacked.

            https://twitter.com/DarrenPlymouth/status/1268253728043347968

            Stop pretending that the violence is police initiated. You look silly.

            1. Jason Bloomberg Silver badge
              Big Brother

              Re: Liar, she hit a traffic light

              Stop pretending that the violence is police initiated. You look silly.

              I have numerous videos from the Good Old Days of Stop the City and other London protests where hours long peaceful protests would mysteriously flare up as police provocateurs moved in and the BBC rolled the opening credits for the 6 O'clock News.

              It was as regular as clockwork; 17:50 the cue to find a safe vantage point and film the mayhem provoked. Funnily enough, at 18:25, as "and now the weather" echoed out of portable TVs, the riot would end as quickly as it started.

              Coincidence, obviously. And I've still got a couple of bridges to sell.

              1. Robert Grant Silver badge

                Re: Liar, she hit a traffic light

                That's nothing. All those fires that appear wherever there are firefighters? Do me a flavour.

          5. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Liar, she hit a traffic light

            Seriously WTF using mounted police against a crowd. They could have killed someone.

            Far and away the safest way to do it. An officer on a horse has a clear view over the crowd to see what's really happening, and trained horses are very skilled at not trampling on people. It's far safer to let the horse manage its movement, so that the officer doesn't have to try & drive or ride a machine at the same time.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Liar, she hit a traffic light

              @Far and away the safest way to do it

              CCTV on a pole is safer, this is 2020, not 1920. You don't move a vehicle, you zoom and pan the camera. CCTV-on-a-pole cannot trample anyone, CCTV-on-a-pole does not bolt and slam its rider into a traffic light.

              CCTV-on-pole, has one draw-back, it does not break up crowds by charging. You cannot charge a crowd to break it up with CCTV-on-a-pole, and then pretend any people crushed were accidental to some sort of observation.

              But I'm sure there will be Daily Mail readers who'll pretend that's not what the group of mounted police were doing there concentrated in that crowd.

              This is 2020 and everyone has a camera. So you can't simply claim the CCTV was broken like Ian Tomlinson when everyone is videoing everything.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Liar, she hit a traffic light

                CCTV-on-pole has some disadvantages. It can't arrest people, and since the troublemakers in this sort of situation usually cover their faces, the only people CCTV lets you identify are the honest folks who are protesting peacefully. There needs to be police on the ground to be able to detain the real troublemakers.

              2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

                Re: Liar, she hit a traffic light

                "CCTV-on-pole, has one draw-back,"

                ...it's impossible to quickly turn and focus based on sounds like a human being on a horse can. CCTV is great for the incident commander to get an overview and maybe evidential purposes, but you can't beat people on the ground for seeing and dealing with the detail and maybe escalating the situation.

                Having said that, I also remember the miners strikes and what went on during that time.

                1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

                  Re: Liar, she hit a traffic light

                  "maybe escalating the situation."

                  Oops, didn't check the spell checker. That should have been "de-escalating".

          6. Claverhouse Silver badge

            Re: Liar, she hit a traffic light

            Poor little gentle protesters

            Maybe Liar, she hit a traffic light could be their matching euphemism for the old cops' phrase of Falling down the stairs.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Liar, she hit a traffic light

              Cederic sought to portray a sweet innocent police operation without riot gear all kneeling and tolerant and getting 27 injuries as a result. So I go check his claim, find their star example injury was a self inflicted horse accident. I find a line of riot police around the statue, contradicting his claim, and so what he said was a fiction.

              Pointing out the fiction being pushed there, is not equivalent to pushing the alternate fiction of 'gentle protestors'.

              BBC was about right, "mostly peaceful".

              If a protestor charged a police line with a horse, they'd face a long jail sentence. If a protestor arrived with shields, helmets, rubber bullets and tear gas they'd be prosecuted.

              If you have to lie about something, this is 2020 everyone has cameras, and everything is searchable and thus verifiable.

              1. Cederic Silver badge

                Re: Liar, she hit a traffic light

                The irony of course being that the police in London have not used tear gas or rubber bullets, thus demonstrating that your attacks on me are spurious and based in ignorance.

              2. genghis_uk Bronze badge

                Re: Liar, she hit a traffic light

                In general, the police in the UK are there to maintain the safety of the protestors. The horses give them a high vantage point and the ability to move through the crowd quickly. If violence kicks off in the crowd the police will move in to disperse and/or contain - trying to equate the UK response to trouble in the crowd with the overly agressive US police response to peaceful protest is a non-starter.

                The US has a genuine problem with the police thinking that every situation requires a massive show of force. We do not have that in the UK despite what people would have you think. Controlling a large crowd is not easy and sometimes, if the crowd gets violent, they need to react - they do not always get it right though - the 'kettling' tactics in late 90's and early 2000's were disgusting! However, we do not go in for rubber bullets and tear gas against an unarmed group of non-violent protestors

                Are the UK police blameless? Of course not but they are not a bunch of yahoo's with military equipment who force their will on the people at gunpoint. I never thought I would be defending the police but I agree with one of the other posters who said the anti-police demonstrations in the UK are largely by people who do not want any form of police.

          7. John Jennings Bronze badge

            Re: Liar, she hit a traffic light

            Horses have been used for many years for crowd control - not charging. It would be insane to pull horses. Why not take cars away from them because sometime people get knocked down.

            Its really useful in many situations.

            You can see from the video that ALL the horses are at the trot - until one bolts and you can see the missiles inboud.

            A trot slow enough for a mob to dissipate - as it was doing.

            I understand in this case a brick struck ONE horse in the face - causing it to bolt - the police officer had clearly lost control.

            1. Spanners Silver badge
              Boffin

              Re: Liar, she hit a traffic light

              Horses have been used for many years for crowd control

              Winston Churchill used them on peaceful protesters when he was home secretary - long before he was prime minister.

              https://thenorwichradical.com/2018/04/06/decolonise-wales-i/

              I picked that one because it cam up first in Google but he sis it in various parts of the UK. My granny in Fife loathed him as did most of her generation there.

              1. EnviableOne Silver badge

                Re: Liar, she hit a traffic light

                the link does not refer to any use of mounted units and deploying armed soldiers, is not the same as ordering them to fire, at least its better than a cavalry charge e.g. Peterloo Massacre

                which lead to the Great reform Act, and subsequent acts of franchisement.

                The police use of mounted officers has been ongoing for 200 years at various levels, the horses are well trained to work in the environment of a crowd and incidents of bolting are rare to non-existant.

                They provide great value to the crowd and the police involved, allowing a better view of the crowd, and for officeres to be seen, also allowing them to react and move through/with the crowds, for a more independant and detailed study of the benefits see:

                https://www.rand.org/randeurope/research/projects/mounted-police-uk.html

              2. Intractable Potsherd Silver badge

                Re: Liar, she hit a traffic light

                Interesting piece about Churchill's time as MP for Dundee: https://grousebeater.wordpress.com/2020/05/23/churchill-in-dundee/

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Protests

        I've enjoyed watching many of the thieves and attackers get arrested.

        These scum detract from the issues at hand and disrespects the victims the protest are representing.

    2. Warm Braw Silver badge

      There's certainly a concerted effort to make them look like riots.

      Easy to get the wrong impression if you follow the fake newsmongers.

      1. ST Silver badge

        > Easy to get the wrong impression if you follow the fake newsmongers.

        Well, it is Faux News. They create their own alternate version of reality.

        1. Someone Else Silver badge

          Faux News. Fox Noise. Funny how even when the name changes, the stench of raw bullshit remains....

      2. Cederic Silver badge

        I concede, I was taken in entirely and firmly formed the impression that they were riots.

        https://www.startribune.com/minneapolis-st-paul-buildings-are-damaged-looted-after-george-floyd-protests-riots/569930671/

        https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/riots-flare-in-new-york-washington-and-la-as-trump-threatens-to-deploy-military-20200602-p54ysc.html

        Perhaps you'd be generous enough to help me understand the correct term for violently assaulting the police, looting shops and burning down the city?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Do you even read your own links?

          Or are you just hoping others won't and take your word for it?

          1. Cederic Silver badge

            Ok, if there weren't riots, why are there 1500 burned out buildings in Minnesota?

            If there wasn't looting where did all the video footage of people running out of broken windows carrying expensive goods come from?

            If the protests were peaceful then who hurt all these policemen?

            RIP David Dorn, a black life that sadly it appears did not matter.

            1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

              "If there wasn't looting where did all the video footage of people running out of broken windows carrying expensive goods come from?"

              I blame Hollywood. US kids are brought up on a diet of TV and movies showing them how to behave if or when a protest turns nasty. The only thing missing was a zombie attack.

  2. elDog

    Oh, good. Another case of having an agency (NYPD) police its own actions.

    Well, they are using an Inspector General within the department. And we all know how independent these IGs are.

    Blasio just needs to follow the dope-in-chief (rump) example and replace the IG with a crony or someone who understands the code of Omertà..

    1. Chris G Silver badge

      Re: Oh, good. Another case of having an agency (NYPD) police its own actions.

      All police forces ( as well as security agencies and even governments*) should have independent review bodies that they are answerable to. Individuals or groups who are members of those agencies, in the event of any rule or law breaking should have their cases reviewed by the external body that should be able to insist on prosecution if necessary.

      After all, if they have nothing to hide they will have nothing to fear™.

      * Governments in theory are reviewed and answerable to electorates but should have review during a term that has some power to check or balance bad government that is not the MSM, let's face it a lot of damage can be done in 4 or 5 years by a Muppet with executive power or a large majority. Letters to an MP or Congress critter don't really cut it.

    2. Sanctimonious Prick
      Unhappy

      Re: Oh, good. Another case of having an agency (NYPD) police its own actions.

      A friend and I got bashed by the police pretty badly one night. The friend lost a couple of toes.

      I put in an official complaint to the NSW Police Ombudsman. Then I moved to Melbourne, Victoria.

      A couple of police officers flew down to Melbourne to interview me on behalf of the Ombudsman.

      The two police officers informed me that I was making up the whole story, there's no evidence, and I'm just straight up a liar.

      And that was the end of that.

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: Oh, good. Another case of having an agency (NYPD) police its own actions.

        If they'd had any sense, they#d have taken advantage of the free jolly, taken you at your word, flew back and then almost certainly been sent back on another free jolly to confirm certain details that they "forgot" to clarify the first time around. I'm sure they could have turned it into "no case to answer" eventually anyway.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Some of the spy gear used requires that they sign a contract that prohibits them from admitting that the have used it so they would be breaking the law to admit that they have used it. For example, in many cases drug shipments are intercepted because the driver changes lanes without signaling - that breaks the law technically but how many time do you see that happen and nobody gets stopped? But if the cops already know that the vehicle is loaded then they stop it and search it.

    Anon obviously.

    1. DJO Silver badge

      A contract or NDA is not enforceable if adhering to it would mean breaking the law.

    2. Jimmy2Cows Silver badge

      Supplier contracts are not laws. No matter how much the supplier would wish them so. The most the suppliers could do is attempt to sue under civil law.

      If the law, as in enacted by Congress etc., prohibits admitting use of certain equipment, that's a whole different kettle of fish. But that would be a law, not a contract.

  4. A random security guy Bronze badge

    When police beat up protestors

    Hard to watch but this is similar to what happened in DC so that trump could get his photo-op.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1DHNoHxB_c

    1. JCitizen Bronze badge
      Megaphone

      Re: When police beat up protestors

      That is peaceful protest done the right way! I read about the incident in a history book, and the soldiers guarding the bridge eventually got so sick of the mayhem, they threw up and passed out, and refused to continue their duty.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Republicans, Trump is finished

    6200 people wanted to attend his Tulsa rally, he expected 65000 (25000 inside, and 40000 outside). The Internet trolled him, his supporters were few. He is done.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4QZ_XJcXjA

    You think this is bad, wait till you see the loser leave the helicopter at the Whitehouse, dejected, a failure.

    There will be directly ~40 deaths as a result of that rally, and indirectly a lot more. None of those people needed to die. You will read the life story of each and every one of those 40 people over the coming days. Loyal Republicans, trusting Republicans, dead Republicans, each with a sick family they leave behind and a back story.

    The revised death rate in the USA from Covid 19 is 200,000+, an extra 80,000 people will die from the Republicans opening up early to undermine the elections. You will be murderers Republicans, you will be responsible for their deaths, you will have planned and executed their deaths in order to mess with the elections. It will be premeditated.

    Each person will have a backstory and your name will be central to that backstory.

    So turn around now.

    Put your fucking masks on.

    Do the social distancing.

    Save the people you can.

    Hold safe mail-in and have long pre-voting day elections. You need USA and USA needs democracy.

    Calculate how many people you saved by this and claim it as your success. These are people you saved. These are Republican voters, older demographic with diabetes, Republicans that you saved by changing course. Brave you, standing up to Trump.

    I'll still think you're total pieces of shit for ever trying this, but 80,000 of your people can be saved. So fucking do it.

    /rant

    1. Woodnag

      Re: Republicans, Trump is finished

      You are sure he leave the White House? If he contests the election result, he'll stay. And he will contest if he loses.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Republicans, Trump is finished

        I'm sure he's finished, I'm also sure he won't leave the Whitehouse.

        I'm expecting a scenario similar to Trump Panama Hotel. Where Trump guards defended the physical building from its rightful owners! But ultimately the rightful owners won because he didn't have the numbers needed to win that fight against the Panama police force.

        https://www.cbsnews.com/news/judge-removes-trump-family-hotel-business-from-trump-panama-city-hotel/

        "Escorted by police officers and a Panamanian judicial official, the owners of the Trump Panama City hotel have taken control of the property. A team of Trump Organization security officials abandoned the area on Monday."

        "The action by Panama's government resolves a 12-day standoff between President Donald Trump's family hotel business and Orestes Fintiklis, a private equity investor who boutgh a majority of the units in the Panama property and then sought to drop the Trump Organization's management company and brand. Though Fintiklis and other owners tried to fire Mr. Trump's company last year, the Trump Organization had refused to surrender physical possession of the hotel."

        "Armed with termination notices for the hotel's management, he met stiff resistance from Trump lawyers and security — the first skirmish in a battle for physical control of the hotel property."

        "Fintiklis, who manages the Miami-based private equity fund Ithaca Capital, has alleged financial misconduct by Trump Hotels dating back years"

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Republicans, Trump is finished

          So if some shyster buys up vast areas of Washington, DC and then tries to claim the White House, you would be okay with that? I'm not suggesting Orestes Fintiklis did anything that might be considered illegal or immoral - he is after all a private equity investor and we all know what honest, loyal and upstanding members of the community they are - but getting a majority via the back door and then launching a hostile takeover is not exactly what I would call an open and transparent business model.

      2. Michael Habel Silver badge

        Re: Republicans, Trump is finished

        No your obvisly confusing Killary, and her supporters here, with the current President.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Republicans, Trump is finished

      Just, perhaps, a tad off topic?

      You didnt open your /rant block, btw. Perhaps the flecks of spittle got in the way.

      You could ask the same question on the protests and again on the riots.... Lot of close contact there too - but more masks at the riots.

      (AC, as I cant be arsed getting mailbombed)

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Republicans, Trump is finished

        If everyone stays on topic on elReg, then elReg becomes another echo in the Internet echo chamber, and you don't get the unique nuggets you do on elReg comments.

        Stick around, the Internet trolling of Trump will have many IT aspects more on topic for elReg.

        Did Brad Pascale (Trumps IT guy), for example, when he implemented the registration site, bother to filter it for Oklahoma IP addresses?, or residents?. Did he even filter it for USA IP addresses?

        That would be a major joke right, if Trump's online IT guru didn't even filter the registrations?

        I see the nutjobs are trying to pretend K-pop is North Korean *nationality*, and not a music-genre, but if Brad screwed up, then perhaps 60,000 North Koreans *did* troll Trump. Perhaps it wasn't k-pop fan boards and 4 chan and others as claimed, perhaps it really was North Koreans.

        Brad Pascale job is safe apparently, which means he's fired, perhaps he'll write a tell-all book.

        "Perhaps the flecks of spittle got in the way"... or perhaps I care enough about the intentional pre-planned killing of 80,000 Americans enough to call it the murder that it is. And perhaps in me doing so, it gives pause for thought for the murderers, before they commit the murders.

        I notice the hats RNC was distributing said "USA", not Trump related, there were only 6200 MAGAs who wanted to attend in the deep red state, but I'm sure his job is as safe as Brad's.

        /NotHtml

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          And it all comes back round to surveillance

          OK, so apparently Brad Pascale, gets them to install an app, and that app is a surveillance app that slurps up all their data. So we're right back at surveillance tech.

          https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/06/21/1004228/trumps-data-hungry-invasive-app-is-a-voter-surveillance-tool-of-extraordinary-scope/

          "Brad Parscale tweeted about the event. “Just passed 800,000 tickets,” he wrote. “Biggest data haul and rally signup of all time by 10x. Saturday is going to be amazing!”

          Ha ha ha ha ha ha, what a pathetic fool.

          But wait the rest of the article isn't a laughing matter. It's potentially a COPA violation if those really are kids trolling him, he can even listen in on their conversations and video them. The app requires video camera and microphone permissions! It gets contact data, i.e. the phone number of everyone you interact with, it gets location, it gets account data, he has enough control there to impersonate anyone who installs that app.

          https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ucampaignapp.americafirst&hl=en_US

          So Brad apparently did get USA data from USA phones, and he got a LOT of it.

          See the permissions:

          "This app has access to:

          Photos/Media/Files

          modify or delete the contents of your USB storage

          read the contents of your USB storage

          Location

          precise location (GPS and network-based)

          approximate location (network-based)

          Device ID & call information

          read phone status and identity

          Camera

          take pictures and videos

          Storage

          modify or delete the contents of your USB storage

          read the contents of your USB storage

          Phone

          read phone status and identity

          Microphone

          record audio

          Calendar

          read calendar events plus confidential information

          add or modify calendar events and send email to guests without owners' knowledge

          Contacts

          find accounts on the device

          read your contacts

          Wi-Fi connection information

          view Wi-Fi connections

          Identity

          find accounts on the device

          Other

          receive data from Internet

          Broadcast data messages to apps.

          view network connections

          pair with Bluetooth devices

          full network access

          change your audio settings

          control vibration

          prevent device from sleeping

          run at startup

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Seems to be uCampaign

            The app seems to have been written by uCampaign, Thomas Peters company:

            https://mashable.com/2016/10/07/ucampaign-conservative-apps/

            He also seems to be also involved in the Brexit app, in RumbleUp, and connected to Cambridge Analytica via Brad. I assume Cambridge Analytica now gets their data from Brad and his app, rather than Facebook APIs.

            I wonder how much cross over of data there is, so of those 30 apps he's provided, does the data provided for one of the apps get handed over to apps, even though they're commissioned by different people?

            Likewise I wonder how smart it is, letting a political app have access to all your private media files, who you called, where you've been, who you met with, your accounts, your planned calender events, your friends, your family, ....

            https://www.linkedin.com/in/tnpeters

            https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/23/leaked-cambridge-analyticas-blueprint-for-trump-victory

            "A former employee explained to the Guardian how it details the techniques used by the Trump campaign to micro-target US voters with carefully tailored messages about the Republican nominee across digital channels"

            "Intensive survey research, data modelling and performance-optimising algorithms were used to target 10,000 different ads to different audiences in the months leading up to the election"

            "Advertisements on Facebook, Twitter, Google and the music-sharing app Pandora were used to help convince 35,000 supporters to install an app used by the most active supporters."

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Seems to be uCampaign

              To know which polling stations to close in November to skew the vote to Republican, you need to know where your Republican voters are voting. So you don't close the polling stations with a high concentration of Republican voters. You have that information from the location data on this app!

              Not only that you have the sniff data for the Wifi and bluetooth of devices other people have around this app.

              Brad was ecstatic about the data haul, which I assumes means he scraped a shed load of data from those 800,000 peoples devices, the people around them, and the devices around those devices.

              Did you really want to share your family photos with Trump? Or your dick pics?

    3. Michael Habel Silver badge
      Linux

      Re: Republicans, Trump is finished

      Where does everyone get this silly notion that the USoA is some kind of Democracy? Let me give you the 411 on the USoA for you, in the hopes that you might learn something. The United States is a Federal Republic. Just the way our forefathers helped to create it.

      *Tux 'cause hes the only boid on the board.

  6. Big Al 23

    When those who have grown up with a victim mentality are ready to have an honest conversation about that mentality, about illiteracy, about poverty, about single parent homes, about crime and illicit drug use then and only then will progress begin. Pretending that other people are the root cause of racism will keep people chained forever.

    1. Michael Habel Silver badge

      But, once you resign you victom card, you also have to give up them gibbs, and then find a job like the rest of us. But, yes you are dead on correct sir, and even if the news clowns refuse to show it. Our President has been communicating with members of the comunity on how some of this can hopefully someday be addressed.

      You know unlike the last occupant, who threw this off to his DoJ Secretary not unlike how one thows a dead stinking fish in the rubbsh can. Which could have been forgivable had it been Bush Jr., or Slick Willie. But, Barrack was more uniqly suited to taking on this task, and failed to act.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Don't bring politics here

    Why is this thinly veiled partisan political piece flagged as security? This is a nakedly political rant, and those of us trying to get on with life and ignore the culture war shouldn't be forced to read this crap.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Don't bring politics here

      Wait... A Register employee showed up at your door, kicked it in, overpowered you, and forced you to keep your eyes open in front of the article? I'm so sorry.

      Or maybe - going out on a limb here, just bear with me - you were a tiny little bit exaggerating, because your delicate sensibilities were ruffled? Should there have been a trigger warning at the top of the article? Maybe you should retreat to a safe space for a while?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Don't bring politics here

        Fine, fine, maybe I over-reacted because instead of just reading the article I made the mistake of checking the comments which pushed me over the edge.

        It still annoys me that politics (especially dem vs rep) gets into everything though. People I follow on twitter for security news and opinion suddenly bust out political opinions (as is their right) but it still annoys me. I had a think about why it does and this is what I realised:

        Ignoring people you disagree with is easy, but it's actually problematic as well. Not responding to or challenging a point you believe is wrong can feel like tacit support. However, Twitter and article comments sections are really poor ways of having a constructive disagreement. So I remain silent, and just get internally frustrated instead.

        Then I have to decide whether to keep reading stuff I disagree with without being able to respond in an effective, constructive manner, or do I stop reading sources that are useful most of the time? I don't like either answer.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Don't bring politics here

          The article did not actually mention either democrats or republicans. I'm sorry that it bothers you to read that police is tear-gassing people for no reason and buying spy gear, all the while trying to avoid any scrutiny of its actions. I'm not sorry for you, because apparently, you think it's all fine, and you'd rather ignore it's happening.

          A very quick search on ElReg shows it's not the first time they talk about that spying, so really, it sounds like it's not the right source of news for you r safe space.

          https://search.theregister.com/?q=stingray+nypd&site=

    2. Spanners Silver badge
      Big Brother

      Re: Don't bring politics here

      You remind me of some people from the USA I heard who only watched FOX news "as it was unbiased".

      1. phuzz Silver badge

        Re: Don't bring politics here

        I knew that Americans had weird ways of spelling words like 'colour' and 'aluminium', but I'd never have guessed that that is how they spell 'only tells me what I want to hear'.

  8. lionel1020

    Could the claim that “Police risk their lives every day” be equally applied to the black people these same police come in contact with?

  9. Danny 2 Silver badge

    Hellboy

    I was sitting in A&E with a nice old woman who had two huge egg sized lumps coming out her forehead. My right hand was twice it's normal size. A friendly neighbourhood drunk saw us and said,"You're the devil! And you are Hellboy!"

    Once he went away she smiled over and said, "Horse trainer, kick". I smiled back and replied, "Cat lover, bite".

    Horses are so potentially dangerous it's surprising we still use them for crowd control. We wouldn't accept police riding elephants into crowds.

    British police started importing German Shepherds from abroad as the local breed was too placid. I was at an action where one protester ran away, which I didn't know was an option, and the MoD plod released a foreign German Shepherd on him. After it was unleashed the first thing it did was to savage a second police dog, then it gave chase. Lucky for him he'd climbed a tree by the time it caught up with him. The pigs of course found this hilarious.

  10. Sherminator
    Angel

    This thread has become so off topic!

    Lion Dung? Traffic Lights?

    Just love the depth of conversation and discussion El Reg readers get into!!

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