back to article 'Boringly reliable': Red Hat architect thinks Kubernetes is 'mostly done' – but there are still plenty of bugs

Red Hat architect and Kubernetes contributor Clayton Coleman, who leads development of OpenShift, reckons Kubernetes is "mostly done" – it needs tidying up and bugs fixed but not major new features. Coleman has worked on Kubernetes since it first went open source in mid-2014. OpenShift is older than Kubernetes and originally …

  1. IGotOut Silver badge

    Give this man a medal.

    Not for the software, but for simply saying...

    It's done, let just fix all problems.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Thumb Up

      Re: Give this man a medal.

      Would that all developers (say, for example, M$) prioritized bug fixes over features.

      1. sabroni Silver badge

        Re: Give this man a medal.

        It's only open source where developers get to prioritise. In a business like Microsoft the management's focus on money dictates what gets priority.

        1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

          Re: Give this man a medal.

          Rebates to customers for problematic bugs will help focus on bug fixing.

          1. BigE

            Re: Give this man a medal.

            Imagine if we did the same with bridges. Yeah the skeleton is done but while you are using it we're going to be removing bits of the road from under you. Oh and some things that you relied on, well when we don't like them, or its a bit hard to maintain them, we'll get rid of them, and claim that we helped you by improving the security.

      2. BigE

        Re: Give this man a medal.

        M$ never used to design things right in the first place. That's why you always waited for the function name 2 to appear and the you could think about using it.

  2. Robert Grant

    This reads like an advert at times. Contrasting Kubernetes with Red Hat making sure things work with LDAP? Those are orthogonal.

  3. Anonymous Coward

    Does it even work?

    I'm trying to understand what "mostly done" actually means in Googlespeak.

    1. Dinanziame Silver badge

      Re: Does it even work?

      If you read the blog post accompanying this link, you'll see this is not meant to be criticism of the project, rather documentation of hard-to-find issues because people only report success stories.

      1. BigE

        Re: Does it even work?

        Yeah it's totally self serving. Sometimes these stories are used to criticize those that don't play well with K8.

  4. cloth

    Improve the user interfaces

    Kubernetes is typical of computer software that is driven by the technical requirements not the user problem or "human" usable interfaces. that's fair enough - but to concentrate on the bugs is to miss the point for me. Concentrate on making it consumable to the simpletons *and* fix the bugs* please. Then you won't get usurped by the next big container thing. Sigh - it won't happen.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Improve the user interfaces

      "computer software that is driven by the technical requirements not the user problem or "human" usable interfaces"

      Think you've just described Blockchain there too. Every supplier and presentation that I had seen from various account managers were trying to convince me I need Blockchain in my estate. It just felt like a solution looking for a non-finance problem (as Bitcoin etc all seem to work).

    2. Ollie12

      Re: Improve the user interfaces

      Kubernetes is designed to be declarative and extensible, a core design principle is "meet the user where they are" as opposed to being overly opinionated. Cloud Foundry had a lot of opinionated design choices to improve the UX and it look where it is now. Part of the reason of K8s success is the ability to extend with CRDs for a more opinionated experience

  5. andy 103
    Thumb Down

    Still don't understand the use-case

    A lot of these technologies (including Docker) are supposedly to simplify managing infrastructure.

    In my experience all they do is take a lot of previous manual work and create a huge burden elsewhere.

    I'm not convinced the learning curve and management of a K8s cluster really has as many advantages as people who use it like to think. I mean it involves a metric fuckton of work, months of learning how to use it, and nowhere to hide when it all goes wrong.

    At least some of the manual management methods used previously were more tried and tested. They need to focus on usability, rather than telling the 1% who think it's amazing about how great it is - they are already the converted.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: K8s a use case: Enable Self-Service

      So k8s is hideous, it's sprawling, complex burdened with stupid names and written in yaml.

      But it's about self service, when I have a templating problem, I reach for sed.

      K8s gives them an override file to change a line, and a special command 'kustomize' which exists exclusively to change a line in this sort of yaml file. I didn't know this existed but it's really a thing, and now it's adopted into the main kubectl command with the -k flag.

      So a way to look at it is an output target for various tooling, the result of which are some yaml.

      So your scripts queries a db, runs perl over the results and spits out some yaml which k8s interprets.

      The commands are verbose but sensible once you grok the concepts. You can run shell scripts with environment variables being injects from various useful sources, which something genuinely useful when combined with replication.

      So I can tell a user, here is the platform contract, use the following env-vars in your service/script and the configuration management will do the right thing in development and production.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    k8s is a mess

    It is far, *far* from done. There are major issues with stability and the tools present in the ecosystem have catastrophic failings (e.g. ".local" causing Rancher to segfault).

    Containers etc are super-useful but they still require highly skilled operators and a lot of attention.

    1. InsaneGeek

      Re: k8s is a mess

      I think that was his whole point, he himself clearly it ugly and difficult. He's saying that the new feature list should be done, and work on squishing bugs. That the features that have been lingering in the "we'll get to that" pile need to either be pushed forward to get them complete or kill them off to focus on bug hunting

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: k8s is a mess

        So it is far from done.

        Thank you for agreeing.

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