I had a nightmare last night that when I was a kid the same thing happened in Windows 98 and WinXP with Internet Explorer.... this one must be fake news.
Microsoft warned late last year that it was making plans to distribute the Chromium-based version of its Edge browser in Windows 10 updates. It began doing so earlier this year, although manual installation was required, but now Redmond has taken the distribution of Edge via Windows Update a step further by initiating …
I seem to remember that Internet Explorer (probably version 2 or 3) running on Windows 3.1(1) would keel over and die after a period of web activity due to how (memory) leaky it was. Thankfully the place at which I was working at the time was replacing 3.1 with 95. Of course, then IE4 came along and screwed everything up once more with the infamous "active desktop".
It's as if MS has now decided to follow Samsung's policy of ramming as much non-removable crapware into it's products just because they can. MS should really be focusing their efforts on fixing the broken abortion of a UI they've nailed onto Win10 or even providing the option to use an alternate one like previous versions of Windows did. Oh, and removing all the unnecessary telemetry. Not a comprehensive list I know but it would be a start.
Or even better creating an OS that [a] gives you complete control over your machine like in the distant past and [b] doesn't need a constant torrent of bug fixes for its entire operational life.
Sorry, I was dreaming...
I went to check if I'd been supplied with the new Edge yet.
Instead I found that it had "helpfully" "forgotten":
... so I'm not going to be using it to browse, since it can't respect my preferences.
I'd love to know which cockwomble at Google decided YouTube should ask me if I want to subscribe to YouTube Kids or Music every single bloody time I visit the site. I don't have kids, a fact that is very unlikely to change, and if I want to listen to music I'll do so on audio equipment in a half decent format not recorded off TOTP 40 years ago on VHS, compressed and uploaded to YouTube ffs. You'd think by now they'd have realised that I don't want either of these products, perhaps even stored it in that supposedly detailed profile they keep on me but no.
I use Firefox with Bluhell and UBlock origin, I don't get of YouTube's offers and ads, if I do a full CClean occasionally, I have to reset the autoplay to don't, otherwise things are generally ok.
I had a large update from Microstitch last weekend and haven't haf a look at the rubbish they have dumped yet, perhaps I should take a look .
Edge is IE by an other name and it never smelled sweet.
On my setup (Firefox), this does not stop the "want to continue listening" popup from YouTube. There's an extension to that too...
I don't tend to use YouTube, unless really necessary, due to the AutoPlay annoyance. NetFlix, Amazon Prime, etc also fall foul of this stupidity.
Equally, I cannot understand why Linked In thinks I wish to see their "Top" posts first, with only "Relevant Comments" by default. Twitter-Twatter takes me "Home" without allowing me to set for all time "Latest Tweets". Facebook determines that I only wish to read "Most Relevant" comments and that I only wish to hear from people that I hear from all the time and not long-lost friends.
Who decides such mindless default settings for these platforms? Someone with a death wish on their own service? Why can't I choose my own preferences, and then use their service even more?
..except I just know Microsoft will 'helpfully' create a desktop shortcut and pin it to the taskbar whether I want it or not. Hopefully some restraint will be shown and it won't be made the default browser... well, by default. I suppose the damage will be mitigated somewhat though since barely anyone seems to use Edge.
Yup, it does. It also requires you to reenter some preferences.
OTOH, my uBlock extension transferred automatically.
Besides, if I had to choose between Google and Microsoft slurping my data, I'd pick Microsoft. Note that in the real world I avoid them both with Firefox.
It'll be funny to see how little Edge will be used now that Borkzilla is pissing it all over.
Still, this line sounds ominous to me : "The automated browser replacement routine will migrate Start menu pins, tiles, and shortcuts, as well as taskbar pins and shortcuts ".
How long before we notice that the automated replacement routine also "helpfully" replaces your default browser choice ?
My bet is next 'Patch Tuesday" and everyone after that.
"you vil do it our way"
I wonder how long it will be before your system counts how many times you launch Edge and if you don't do it often enough they'll start nagging you 'use Edge or else...."
That is the final 'E' in EEE in operation.
I gave up with Windows 10 in 2016 and have not regretted it one bit.
Edge and I.e. we're useful. There I said it.
Just had a nightmare trying to work out why some images we're not showing correctly on my sites and the old crappy legacy installs allowed me to work out it was a "helpfull" security policy in Chromium based systems.
That just leaves Safari.
The hate is not for the browser, which I am sure is no worse than any other Chrome Blink engine crap browser, but for Microsoft's endless slimy tactics in making sure everyone has it as default.
An analogy might be the Washington Post's inane manoeuvering to overturn the GDPR they loathe and force one to take their damn cookies; not even giving the choices offered by other more reputable sites to decline personalization.
Fortunately, with Cookies Exterminator I can now merely accept all, and then watch them being destroyed as soon as the page is closed: alas, there is no Windows Exterminator...
Then what do you suggest?
I do agree with the OP, everyone is hating on this because it's Microsoft. I'll certainly get hate for calling people out on that, but it's the truth:
The fact is that Microsoft essentially has to include a browser in order for new installs to access the Internet so as to get things accomplished: download and install favorite programs that are now only available via this method, such as my favorite example Adobe or even a different browser of choice; find online help or installation instructions for the new kit; etc.
Or, provide a selection method to download and install *some* type of browser.
Windows does not [yet] have a package manager so you can't get a browser via that method. It's either include one or make an automated selection method to get one. Most Windows users are not sophisticated enough to deal with the effort that would be necessary to download and install a browser from scratch, not using a browser-based interface to find and download a new browser - because that's a Catch-22, needing a browser to find a browser in order to switch to said, new browser.
So now Microsoft is providing a browser based on Chromium. You know, the most popular browser engine that is currently used.
Why the hate? If the largest user base uses Chromium (Google Chrome), Microsoft is now providing a version. You are free to use it...or, not. But most likely most people will be using said Chromium to enable the ability to get something else in the first place.
To appease the issue, make Microsoft allow for uninstalls. Hopefully that will satisfy most individuals.
that's not the issue the issue is:
The automated browser replacement routine will migrate Start menu pins, tiles, and shortcuts, as well as taskbar pins and shortcuts. It will pin the new Edge to the taskbar and add a shortcut to the desktop, removing the old Edge if present. Data like passwords, favorites, and open tabs will be preserved through migration to the new browser.
Its the we need to make this update but as we assume everyone wants to move over we will make it default and add shortcuts everywhere even though you removed them last time. Then like always it will have some deep tie into Windows that makes it hard to repair (even though this was superposed to be the single biggest change from IE to Edge).
You don't need Windows to be bundled with a browser at all since it already has a package manager (of sorts) - the Microsoft Store.
If all the commonly-used browsers were made available through the Store then Microsoft could save themselves the trouble of developing their own and concentrate on more important stuff.
Snake, I get it: Edge per se is a non-issue. As you say, it's just anodder Blink brwozer. Shipping an OS with a default browser is a non-issue; every OS I ever installed comes with a browser.
The issue is installing it and then making it impossible to uninstall. The issue is installing it on machines on which the user has already configured software to his/her liking. The issue is pulling cheeseball, stupid-arse tricks like hiding the version number.
(From Reg article: "The current version of Microsoft Edge will be hidden from UX surfaces in the OS – because people don't need to know such things. Also, Chromium Edge does not support uninstalling the update.")
The issue is Microsoft controlling the user's machine. I buy my machines with money; they belong to me. I control them.
The hate comes from Microsoft's track record: you WILL use Win 8 if you want a Window's machine, even though the interface breeds dung-flies. (That died fast, didn't it? Overstepped a bit, MS.) You WILL let MS download data from your machine. You WILL take this update even though it will bork your machine.
So: "You WILL install Edge, you WILL NOT uninstall it, and WE will manage your installation" is where the hate comes from. Simples.
**FULL DISCLOSURE: I do not run Windows much, so I probably don't know what I'm talking about. I do have a Windows grandpa-box, but Linux does everything I need at this point.
Most Windows users are not sophisticated enough to deal with the effort that would be necessary to download and install a browser from scratch, not using a browser-based interface to find and download a new browser - because that's a Catch-22, needing a browser to find a browser in order to switch to said, new browser.
That sounds fair, particularly the first 6 or 7 words; however, for anyone who previously used a computer it would be a few seconds to copy over a .exe browser file [ say, to make it hard, Opera or Brave ] from a disk of some sort saved from another install, and click the .exe file.
I'm not suggesting this should be the preferred method, or even an optimal method, merely that installing a browser to download a browser is not the only way.
There's even using SFTP, or downloading a .exe via the terminal. Sometimes with WGET...
On the new Edge > Settings > Privacy and services >
Clear browsing data
This includes history, passwords, cookies and more. Only data from this profile will be deleted. Manage your data
Clear browsing data now
Choose what to clear
Choose what to clear every time you close the browser
"alas, there is no Windows Exterminator..."
Actually, there are many. Here are a few of them, in no particular order:
Because it is Microsoft and therefore, according to all the haters above, it sucks. They've never tried it, and wouldn't be caught dead doing so, but that makes all of them experts on it. Edge is faster than either Chrome or Firefox, and definitely doesn't suck up as much personal data as Chrome, but what the heck, haters gotta hate. Personally I like both W10 and the new version of Edge.
""New" Edge or "Old" Edge?
I have always used FF"
I also used FF for the longest of time. Then I swapped to classic Edge and then to new Edge. New Edge is faster and the UI far less clunky than FF. When I say FF is clunky there is simply something a bit... mmm... laggy with it. It simply doesn't seem to respond as well as I would like. On Mac, Windows or Linux. New Edge, though.... a totally different, smooth, polished experience. Just try it - bin it if you don't like... but at least give it a go.
If you don't want the new Edge automatically installed, you need to download a file from Microsoft (it has a .cmd extension) and run it as administrator:
EdgeChromium_Blocker.cmd [<machine name optional>] [/B] [/U] [/H]
/B= block distribution
/U = unblock distribution
/H= Displays the following summary help:
This tool can be used to remotely block or unblock the delivery of
Microsoft Edge (Chromium-based) through Automatic Updates.
I can imagine getting lots of support calls from my novice users.
Some will dislike change, some will be alarmed by the icon looking different.
My biggest concerns, though, are the way it will force a change to the default browser, search engine and one little click of the Sync button can 'upgrade' your local account to a Microsoft account without even prompting for a password (if it already has some details saved for you). Great way to get locked out, next time the computer starts up.
OK, the blocking tool works, it tells me.
But I had to use an ELEVATED Powershell (admin permissions) so as to dodge the "access denied" refusal.
Strange that the "help" page from MicroSoft doesn't seem to mention this. (At first sight, anyway.)
(Just spotted a commenter above mentions use by admin.)
Any ideas how to Uninstall Edge if it's already in place ?
It's absent from the "Uninstall or change a program" screen; likewise from the "Windows features" box.
Reminds me of trying to remove Internet Explorer in the good old days. Only more so.
Please could someone explain how my supposedly secret password list within Chrome, gets carried across to a MS program?
I don't really go for the last word in security, but I would like to keep the OS and its ginormous attack surface, away from passwords and away from gmail. Defence in depth is the idea, though maybe it's more like width, in this case.
The number of updates needed on Windows is witness to the complexity and scale of its attack surface, Chrome is a lot smaller even though it faces the whole internet.
I can't imagine google hands all my passwords over to MS, so, is it that there is google-controlled and secured chrome in a windowsy shitflake-sprinkled wrapper?
Why not just use Chrome then?
Why on earth do MS think that they have some sort of right to even attempt this in the first place?
Automatically installing security updates is bad enough, when it just chucks your work in the bin. It's worse now you get updates on the whim of some bling-obsessed marketroid, to 'get you there' with the latest shit functionality. For instance a snip tool that puts a lovely fucking red border round your screenscrape - and informs you it won't work for long as it's "moving" ?
So, erm, does anyone know how this works and who then I need to trust to keep it secure?
I appreciate that it might not be a good idea, but I certainly do not understand the implementation or the mechanisms involved.
Let me elaborate:
I had assumed that the passwords are not in some text file that any new browser can pick-up and incorporate.
The favourites possibly are in just such a file, OK maybe XML, and would be imported only upon my agreement when installing a new browser.
Chrome has me signed into gmail already, and I presume there is a cryptographic protocol, beyond HTTPs, that allows me to download emails only to Chrome that is signed-in, maybe a session key or something.
So, this - or better, another key - should be used for passwords also. They are either sent by google (best) or stored in an encrypted file locally (worst), and only decrypted the moment they are to be used. Only then is the clear text available - and possibly visible to the OS, which could be compromised, or to memory-inspecting malware, or malware that intercepts pre-HTTPS command stream.
These should not be visible to the new browser, to be pasted-in to the relevant fields, other than by following a similar protocol, basically being Chrome in a shiny wrapper.
Yes, at work we still run IE because even though it is "obsolete" some of the stuff needs to use it to work. If someone discovers a security thing with IE that is in the "won't fix" (but it isn't a problem in (insert browser here), it might change things.
Yes, I exist in a "administrated by central" environment which is pretty locked down, and I wish I could get a proper persuasion device activated on the proper people, but I dream...
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