back to article Remember when Republicans said Dems hacked voting systems to rig Georgia's election? There were no hacks

On November 4th, 2018, now-Georgia Republican Governor Brian Kemp announced an investigation into his rival Democratic party, accusing the organization of trying to hack the US state's voter registration system. The accusation, presented without evidence, was greeted skeptically at the time as it came two days before Kemp, …

  1. Mike Lewis

    It would be interesting... add up all the costs of the investigations.

    In the old days, i.e. fifty years ago, we used to blame errors on the computer. Now that they are so common, we have to blame errors on hackers. Perhaps future AI will blame errors on us.

    1. jason_derp

      Re: It would be interesting...

      "Perhaps future AI will blame errors on us.

      Future AI and I sound like we'd get along.

  2. ecofeco Silver badge

    Gee, what a surprise

    "Projecting" is a core GOP value.

    1. jake Silver badge

      Re: Gee, what a surprise

      Projection does indeed seem to be a prerequisite o't'brass in the GOP ... One wonders what would happen if the rank & file suddenly noticed.

      1. Rich 11

        Re: Gee, what a surprise

        That would require a week-long concerted effort by Fox News, the sort of exercise normally reserved for whatever Trump's blame-shifting tactic happens to be this week.

  3. RichardEM

    A dry run for trumps loss in 2020

    What I expect from our leader Tsar Trump especially if he looses the election

    1. sanmigueelbeer

      Re: A dry run for trumps loss in 2020

      I doubt if he will lose.

      There are so many ways to be the winner in the US elections: How come Donald Trump won if Hillary Clinton got more votes?

      Unlike in other countries, voting in the US is not compulsory.

      1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

        Re: voting in the US is not compulsory.

        In some parts of the USA, one party actively tries to stop people getting registered to vote. All manner of dirty tricks are used to rig the voter lists and thus make sure that the election goes the way of the desired large camaign donors.

        USA the best political system the top 1% can buy. /s /s

      2. Paul Herber Silver badge

        Re: A dry run for trumps loss in 2020

        'Unlike in other countries, voting in the US is not compulsory.'

        Like in most other countries, voting in the US is not compulsory.

      3. LenG

        Re: A dry run for trumps loss in 2020

        There are few countries where voting is technically compulsory, and even fewer where the requirement is enforced.

        Classic. though, is North Korea. Everyone over 17 has to vote ... and there is only one candidate on the ballot.

        1. IceC0ld

          Re: A dry run for trumps loss in 2020

          the North Korea issue is actually a fantastic representation of the free vote system, as there, it's one man, one vote, and FatBoyKim is the man, and he has the vote ..............................

          apologies to Lord Havelock Vetinari - Lord Patrician the instigator of this fine political set up, and I DO mean a set up :o)

          also apologies to Terry Pratchett as well, not taking his work in vain

      4. Jamie Jones Silver badge

        Re: A dry run for trumps loss in 2020

        Compulsory voting is a horrible idea.

        The main problem with the democratic system are uninformed voters easily swayed by media bollocks.

        If you want a better turnout, engage the voters. Don't force someone to vote who wouldn't want to, because then you'll get even more voters who vote for someone because they heard dave down the pub said he was a top geezer, or they vote for the only guy whose name they recognise because they saw him drinking a pint on TV etc..

        1. Spanners Silver badge

          Re: A dry run for trumps loss in 2020

          The way to fix it would be to use some form of proportional voting and to add an additional voting option - "None of the above".

          This would cause parties to pay more attention to facts and also give a way of blocking a complete set of candidates if they are all useless.

          1. LucreLout

            Re: A dry run for trumps loss in 2020

            The way to fix it would be to use some form of proportional voting and to add an additional voting option - "None of the above".

            You're conflating separate issues.

            PR is a nightmare - all it can possibly achieve is giving the 3rd place party all of the electoral power because they become king maker. That's how it works in my wifes native Sweden, and neighboring Denmark.

            In the UK that translates into direct rule from Scotland via Sturgeons SNP. No thanks.

            There's no reason none of the above cannot be added to FPTP, which has worked well for centuries, and ensures we don't end up with a paralyzed parliament with a 3rd string electoral tail wagging the parliamentary dog.

            Lefties tend to favour PR because they think they'll enjoy lefty coalitions indefinitely, which would very likely not have happened at the last election - it'd just have probably led to Nigel Farrage being in charge rather than Boris. I think we can all agree that isn't in the countries interest.

            1. TheIO

              Re: A dry run for trumps loss in 2020

              Under a system of proportional representation, the SNP wouldn't be the third largest party in parliament - the only reason they have so many seats is because of first past the post, whereby they didn't get the majority of the vote in IIRC *any* seat last year yet won 48 anyway. You'd have seen the Lib Dems in third place, potentially with the Greens or Brexit Party in fourth ahead of the SNP depending on how it's sliced. It'd be fundamentally healthier for politics in that part of the country, because you wouldn't have a monolithic yellow block that ignores the wishes of a majority of its constituents.

              1. LucreLout

                Re: A dry run for trumps loss in 2020

                You'd have seen the Lib Dems in third place, potentially with the Greens or Brexit Party in fourth ahead of the SNP depending on how it's sliced.

                Possibly the only worse outcome than rule from Scotland would be the rainbow coalition of chaos. It'd literally be rule by the losers, which isn't democracy no matter what mental gymnastics you bring to bear.

                NOTA can just as readily be added to FPTP as it can to any other system, and since changing the electoral system from FPTP has already been rejected by the electorate at referendum then we must respect & abide by that choice.

                I know the left have trouble with the idea of abiding by referendum results, but they're going to need to make peace with it or stop having bloody referenda.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: A dry run for trumps loss in 2020

                  NOTA needs teeth. Basically in any constituency where 'None of the above' wins the candidates who stood should be dis-barred from re-standing for 5 years or so (and no peerage in that 5 years either). Might make fora year with an election every fortnight or so until it settles down......

            2. JCitizen

              Re: A dry run for trumps loss in 2020

              @LucreLout - In a way that is exactly what the US electoral college does. It allows for victory by popular vote as long as all opposing votes are in lower number that the popular vote for one candidate. In other words, if the opposing party and all other party votes add up to more numbers, then the college kicks in. Since all votes count; the representatives of the college cover all parties involved and can throw in for whatever candidate they think can still win. Even Hillary could have garnered that vote, but she pulled a beginners stunt and assumed she was so popular that the college didn't matter; that doesn't go down well with those representatives, that plan can backfire on you, and it did. There are several instances in US history where the college tipped the balance. I say it is a good system - especially when you get too many parties involved in the national general election. It is the same disaster that happened to the Weimar Republic.

        2. Malcolm Weir Silver badge

          Re: A dry run for trumps loss in 2020

          I agree compulsory voting is problematic, but "compulsory returning a ballot (possibly spoiled, possibly containing a rousing endorsement for "M. Mouse", possibly blank) is not.

          I am required (by law) to return a census form in the US, and some kind of annual equivalent thing in the UK that worries about jury duty etc. And of course many people in many places have to file tax returns even if they owe no tax.

          So why not require all eligible voters to acknowledge, even if they elect not to exercise, their rights?

        3. veti Silver badge

          Re: A dry run for trumps loss in 2020

          Sadly we've seen what "engaging the voters" looks like. Full on cultural warfare.

          That's why half of America is now bent on getting back to business as usual without *any* acknowledgement of social distancing or masks or anything else that suggests there might be something bad happening.

          When your political system is leading to tens of thousands of excess deaths, it may fairly be said to have failed. Utterly. After all, the whole point of politics is to prevent exactly that outcome.

        4. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: A dry run for trumps loss in 2020

          Better to randomly select 650 souls from the electoral register and give them the job for 5 years.

          Would save so much bs and we would get much better results.

          1. LucreLout

            Re: A dry run for trumps loss in 2020

            Better to randomly select 650 souls from the electoral register and give them the job for 5 years.

            Take for a moment the hypothesis that large parts of the country believe that every politician of every colour rosette is a self serving scheming bastard. Lets just assume they're right for now and that the last honest person to enter the HoP was Guy Fawkes.

            Now imagine for a moment how mind numbingly thick the average person is, then take a second to appreciate that half of them are by definition less smart or capable than that. 325 of the folk you just selected are those people. Joey Essex for Chancellor can not end well. What happens when we get a real copper bottomed racist for home / foreign sec? What will our options look like if we have someone of Wayne Rooney's intelligence level for PM? Anyone with an IQ over 70 will be eligible for selection....

            What would be better would be a return to the pre-labour government politics when politicians were jailed for breaking the law (Archer, Aitkin etc) rather than the Blair, Brown, Cameron, May, and Johnson era's when they're routinely not.

            The rot of no accountability do as you like set in from the top down, and from the top down it must be purged.

        5. tony2heads

          Re: A dry run for trumps loss in 2020

          I would argue that everyone should be obliged to vote and there should be an option for "none of these" at the top.

          1. Jamie Jones Silver badge

            Re: A dry run for trumps loss in 2020

            I still don't think none-of-the-above is a solution to make compulsory voting work. After all, the option to spoil a ballot has already existed.

            I still think the uniformed, who's forced to vote will choose someone for spurious reasons (like the examples I mentioned) rather than think "I didn't want to vote because I don't like the candidates, so I'll choose NOTB."

            Most people don't vote out of general ignorance and lazyness rather than as a protest. If they had wanted to protest, they already have that ability by turning up and spoiling the ballot.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward


    Do you want to see an example of 'cancel an election' + 'specious claim to power' + 'coup'. Here's Kemps trial run here:

    "The state of Georgia was supposed to hold an election Tuesday to fill a seat on the state Supreme Court. Justice Keith Blackwell, a Republican whose six-year term expires on the last day of this year, did not plan to run for reelection. "

    "But then something weird happened: Georgia’s Republican Gov. Brian Kemp and the state’s Republican secretary of state, Brad Raffensperger, canceled Tuesday’s election. Instead, Kemp will appoint Blackwell’s successor, and that successor will serve for at least two years — ensuring the seat will remain in Republican hands."

    They cooked up a way for a Republican Judge to time his exit, so a Republican Governor would then *appoint* his replacement to fill the gap till the election, and so that a Republican Secretary of State could cancel that election to widen that gap.

    A Republican dominated Supreme Court ruled it legal, but it is not legal.

    "all Justices of the Supreme Court and the Judges of the Court of Appeals shall be elected on a nonpartisan basis for a term of six years"

    i.e. judges are elected and their term starts Jan 1st.

    If there is a gap, Kemp can appoint a temporary replacement. That replacement has 2 limits set on them: 1) They are only temporary till an elected judge takes up office. and 2) They are only there till Jan 1 of the year after the next state election. A time limit.

    1) and 2) are independent conditions. They've merged the two conditions into one. So that Kemp appointed the judge and he will not stand down because they will not hold an election for his replacement. Instead he will stay till Jan 1 of the year after the general election.

    AT WHICH POINT HE'LL DO THE SAME THING. They cancel one judge election, they'll cancel the next judge election, the temporary appointment will step down in November and they'll repeat the same rule to again block the election of the judge till after the next election.

    Their justification for not holding an election is that the temporary replacement will be there till Jan 1 after the year of the state general election... because they won't hold an election.... because the replacement will be there for years yet.... because they won't hold an election..... loop.

    It's a coup.

    Kemp appointed an illegitimate judge, beholden to Kemp for his appointment, who will rule for the Republicans in the coming State coup.

    You think Kemp will hold an election, and Republican judges, will support democracy. They will not .

    It's a coup.

    They're opening up with rising infections, they will cancel the November election, Brad Raffensperger will cancel that election citing safety. A Republican Supreme court judge beholden to Kemp will rule it legal. A Republican Supreme Federal court will rule whatever shit they need to to keep power.

    You will never see another election again.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Fix: Contact Keith R. Blackwell

      The fix for this is to contact Justice Keith R. Blackwell, and get him to withdraw his resignation notification and stay on until January 1st 2021.

      Without Kemps ability to appoint a temp, he cannot block the election of the judges successor.

      And Brad Raffensperger attempt to not hold the election is then moot.

      Their component of Barr's coup plot is then spoiled.

      Why would he do it?

      Because the good life he enjoys stems from the democracy, not from the Republican party. He was probably offered Bader Ginsbergs job post-coup for this, but being the judicial face of a coup is not a reward, its a punishment. His life would be hell, subject to the whim of Trump on one side, and the anger of people on the other as he makes ridiculous rulings to please Trump. That's not a happy life. That's not for him. He can do his part to save democracy. So ask him.

    2. jason_derp

      Re: Coup

      "You will never see another election again."

      In Georgia!? Say it is not so! How could they have let this occur?! /s

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward


        @"In Georgia!? Say it is not so! How could they have let this occur?!"

        No, the whole USA.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Coup, one small glimmer of hope

          There has been one small glimmer in this straight up coup attempt. A ruling led by Justice Roberts.



          To kill elections in the USA, Republicans need to suppress polling in >= 3 states. e.g. Florida, Georgia, Texas reseed the epidemic together with suppress mail-in ballots and cramming voters into a low number of polling stations.

          At election time if people are forced to vote in-person with an epidemic raging, then they risk illness and death. So the epidemic is a good way of suppressing votes in those Democrat districts. Nobody wants to die, to vote.

          Arizona closed 20% of polling stations, Texas , closing 10% of polling stations in *Democrat* leaning districts to try to keep the voting numbers low by making it as difficult as possible to vote in those districts:

          Now with a epidemic, if that doesn't work out, and the people try to vote in large numbers, they can fall back on closing the polling stations, citing 'safety'. "We closed them to prevent the spread of infections in these dangerous times".... "thinking of the people" etc etc. Portray themselves as the good guys, even if they reseeded the epidemic to create this situation.

          With a Republican dominated Supreme Court, they can expand that suppression of votes in 3 states into suppression of the whole US election, it will be along the lines of "a partial election is not an election".

          Trump then has a bunch of emergency powers to seize power and hold his coup and whatever Barr comes up with:

          So, for example, he can use US military against the people, and indeed Trump's current racists shit-stirring seems aimed at exactly that. With the Pentagon right now, preparing to deploy troops inside USA:


          To have the epidemic raging at election time, they need to 1) reopen early during rising infections, 2) stop mask wearing to spread it, 3) turn maskless, mass meetings into super-spreader events.

          You see all of these things happening through right wing media, in these Republican States and in Churches.

          Churches are ideal for spreading disease, lots of people inside, told to put their faith in God, and the face-mask as a sign they have no faith!

          So, as example, Florida Govenor, Ron DeSantis for example, did not sign a stay-at-home order until Florida Counties put their own in place. Those County stay-at-home orders banned in-person Church services. DeSantis state wide order, allowed the mega-churches to open and hold services. He then signed a second order setting his stay-at-home order as the MAXIMUM. In effect overruling the ban on Church services and letting the Churches open up.

          It's just Republican politics. They don't have the majority of the people behind them, they suppress votes. They divide the opposition. Set American against American. Only now it involves an epidemic and a lot of death. It requires they kill a lot of Americans to justify killing the election.


          So, you have all these little people, part of the coup, and yet not aware of their part. Justice Keith R. Blackwell is just one of them. He wants to retire from the Georgia Supreme Court, he says "I won't stand for re-election", Kemp asks him to resign two months earlier in November before the election, probably offers some inducement, e.g. put a word in with Trump for a US Supreme Court slot.

          Blackwell will not be party to the coup. None of them are aware of the full plot yet. Justice Roberts in particular votes partisan on auto pilot without seeing the whole picture even as its hitting.

          You show the little people how their part of the coup fits the whole, and they can then choose whether they actually want to be part of this, or if they'd like to simply keep working for 2 months more till their term expires on January 1st.

          This is the fix, shine sunshine on the plot.


          So the glimmer of hope:

          Justice Roberts sided with California Governor on letting him keep churches at reduced capacity during the epidemic:

          If Republicans can't use the Churches as epidemic spreaders, they've lost the easiest way of spreading the virus. If the epidemic is done in November they cannot suppress elections. You'll see Trump try everything to keep it going, you'll see Kavanaugh and Barr try everything to keep it going, but its not a foregone conclusion that they will win.


          I want you to notice that the other Republicans Supreme Court judges were totally happy to spread a deadly virus through the Church community. *Their* church community. When wave 2 hits because of these Republicans, and those Church goers die, remember these people. Remember who killed them. Particularly notice Brett Kavanaugh's actions here in this vote. His divisive opinion:

          "By contrast, wrote Stern, “Kavanaugh crafted a narrative of invidious religious discrimination. His dissent reads like a brief by the church, not a judicial opinion. Kavanaugh alleged that Newsom’s order ‘indisputably discriminates against religion’ in violation of the free exercise clause. For support, the justice insisted that ‘comparable secular businesses,’ like grocery stores and pharmacies, ‘are not subject’ to the same restrictions imposed on churches. California must have a ‘compelling justification’ for this disparate treatment, and he saw none.”

          All those people wearing masks and keeping distance, are working to save all those people in the churches from dying. Kavanaugh wants them to worship in-person in high-density, knowing it will spread the epidemic among themselves and kill them.

          And the churches are open, but people are worshipping at home to do their part and they're struggling with reduced income. The church goers don't want this. And the people outside, wearing masks, they have the mask on to save the life of the people inside. They don't want this either. The two sides are *united* in wanting this disease ended.

          See the dividers trying to divide you?

          Don't let them divide you.

          1. Rich 11

            Re: Coup, one small glimmer of hope

            For support, the justice insisted that ‘comparable secular businesses,’ like grocery stores and pharmacies, ‘are not subject’ to the same restrictions imposed on churches.

            Setting aside the fact that Kavanaugh has already publicly demonstrated his willingness to lie (under oath, at his confirmation hearing), if he truly believes that providing access to food and medicine is comparable to being given the opportunity to be led in prayer then he has a truly fucked-up grasp of reality.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Coup, one small glimmer of hope

              Of course he doesn't, it was totally disingenuous. God being omnipresent makes location of prayer unimportant. Pray at home, pray at church, God is in both places. Religious people are not stupid, he's not stupid either, he's not interpreting the law there, he's trying to con people.

              It was designed to give Fox News liars something to hook onto.

              And I'm trying to get the Religious-Right to realize that Kavanaugh and Fox News are trying to use their religion against them to help spread this epidemic. That they are the patsy in this con. It isn't the people with the masks who watch MSNBC they're aiming to kill here. It's the people watching Fox News crowding into churches without masks! The easy targets. It's them!

              The people protesting with the masks are on *their* side. The mask is as much for *them* as it is for its wearer! Literally the inner layer of a face mask is to absorb drops from the wearer so they don't infect others. It's there for other people's benefit. The young wear that mask to protect the old. *Them*.

              Laura Ingraham had cancer surgery. Her surgeon wore a mask, yet she called masks "a liberal plot, and 'not settled science'!". WTF. Liar. Lucky both her parents are dead already, she wouldn't wear a mask to save them.

              Fox News has extended work-from-home through June, yet they're trying to get everyone else out early, without masks!

              It makes for funny TV to see them drunk at their home studios spewing tipsy-hate, but when you realize that 100k dead include a lot of their own viewers, its not so funny.


              Edit, make that 105,557 dead and rising.

              1. Rol

                Re: Coup, one small glimmer of hope

                It doesn't make any sense to kill your voters. The frothing at the mouth Republicans and religious nutjobs have a lot of overlap, so any encouragement to ignore all sensible advice, especially in the teapot focussed Fox News, is going to kill a lot more chavs than normal humans.

                However if their unwitting sacrifice manages to postpone the election and thus keep Mr Orange in office a few years longer, then I suppose it's a sort of victory.

                And forget bleached chicken, I want everything coming from America swimming in bleach. And a metaphorical acid bath for that gob shites tweets while we're at it.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: Coup, one small glimmer of hope

                  Exactly, it doesn't make sense to kill your voters if you plan on allowing a vote. And you can see the Georgia Judicial election here, cancelled by Brad Raffensperger. He'll be the very same person who will cancel the Georgia State vote too.

                  And that battle will be fought in the same Georgia Supreme Court, only now with a Judge who didn't get elected in, because Brad Raffensperger refused to run the election as he was required to do. So that judge will be beholden to Brad, Kemp and that group and not to the voters of Georgia.

                  That judge is appointed at the whim of Kemp. All manner of quid-pro-quo becomes possible by bypassing the election.

                  Dear Keith R. Blackwell this coup shit isn't for you, get back to democracy. It's sooo much nicer with a country unified under the system of democracy! They wouldn't give you Bader Ginsbergs job anyway, they've promised that to every person who'll do a quid-pro-quo!

                  So withdraw your letter of resignation, and stay on till January 1st, and make it clear that your replacement needs to be elected as per the constitution of Georgia. Back democracy in November. Then go home and enjoy the stability democracy brings. I'll shake your hand and call you a true American! And so would everyone in Georgia on both side of the vote, because nobody hands their vote over to Kemp. No one, not even Republicans say "here, Kemp, I don't want to vote because you can decide for me"!

                  A unified America is a strong America, and you don't want to live in the Fox News-Republican fragmented one, no matter what shit Fox News spews into your brain at night.

                  You get a glimpse of how unpleasant the world is without democracy and justice and rule of law, here:


                  This happened in Ukraine to eject Paul Manasfort's last Putin puppet.


                  Does this seems familiar? This was Ukraine.


                  And you can see how scared Trump is.

                  "Trump wrote that if the protesters had breached the White House fence, they would have been “greeted with the most vicious dogs, and most ominous weapons, I have ever seen.”

                  This is a terrified man, you can see he's afraid the secret service won't protect him. He'll be protected by "ominous weapons", really? Magic-mindrays perhaps and liberal seeking lazers that go pew pew pew??? Bluster and bravado. He's shitting bricks.

                  Trump tweeted Saturday would be “MAGA NIGHT AT THE WHITE HOUSE." Looks like he's trying to raise an armed militia of MAGAetts.

                  What next? Invite Russian troops to defend the Whitehouse? I wouldn't put it past him.

                  If he was a leader, he'd be out on a stage, with a microphone unifying and soothing and uniting and LEADING. Instead he's still doing dividing crap, trying to get set one group against another. Even now, even as protests reach his door, he's shit stirring and trying to divide.

                  Republicans, need to ask themselves if they want this, or would they like to go back to complaining about Dijon mustard being too fancy?

            2. Malcolm Weir Silver badge

              Re: Coup, one small glimmer of hope

              ... and I've seen some churches conduct "social distancing" services in their parking lots or on the football field of an affiliated school. So you can still have some kind of community get together without violating the rules. Communion is tougher, though!

            3. Kibble 2

              Re: Coup, one small glimmer of hope

              @ Rich 11: Obviously you've never lived in Florida, home of a lot of cult-like crazies, a lot of whom vote.

          2. martinusher Silver badge

            Re: Coup, one small glimmer of hope

            This 'issue' is blatantly political and needed slapping down. This suit was brought by a small pentecostal church, one that is small enough that it probably wouldn't be affected by the proposed opening orders. In real life religious organizations are actively working with state and county health officials to develop protocols for opening safely.

          3. Kibble 2
            IT Angle

            Re: Coup, one small glimmer of hope

            That's quite an interesting conspiracy theory with a lot of moving parts. is that why you're posting anonymously?

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              All of those parts are moving

              Take a look at what I said, all of those parts are already in motion. Lots of people are looking at Trumps distractions and missing the key lawsuits and key actions of the Republican players involved.

              In Orlowski days, he used to mock commenters while having access to their private elReg details. So I don't give elReg my private details, I tend to pop in and out of elReg when I have something to say with throw away email addresses and joke account names.

            2. LucreLout

              Re: Coup, one small glimmer of hope

              That's quite an interesting conspiracy theory with a lot of moving parts. is that why you're posting anonymously?

              I'm not the OP, but if you want an entertainingly good conspiracy theory, then I give you this:

              COVID is killing a lot of people, particularly BAME people.

              BAME people are mostly democrats.

              BAME people can be relied upon to react to a death in police custody with marches, rioting, and general gathering together in crowds.

              COVID spreads in crowds.

              Dead people don't vote.

              Joining the dots gets you to a single human sacrifice to trigger the literal decimation of democrat voters in key states.

              Now, please forgive any racism above - try to see the post through the eyes of a loon conjuring up the policy. I don't go in for conspiracy theories, but if I did, well, that would just about seem possible to me.

    3. veti Silver badge

      Re: Coup

      You are playing Trump's game. If you are sincere in wanting to see the US return to some sort of sanity, this is not how to do it.

      Trump is trying to make the 2020 election about the red/blue culture war. That's how he won in 2016, and it's by far his best chance of winning again. And you're playing straight into his hands. Language like "coup" and "illegal" (hint: if the relevant court says it's legal, then it is - there are such things as appeals, but your own conscience and opinions do not qualify as a higher court) are the language of violent revolution, not persuasion.

      Don't try to fight dirty against Trump. He will drag you down to his level, then beat you with experience.

  5. Sanguma

    Just one nose-picking minute

    - in saner jurisdictions, someone who lies to the cops that a crime allegedly took place gets a sentence of some sort to remind him not to do it again. What's wrong with the g*damm United States of A?

    1. codejunky Silver badge

      Re: Just one nose-picking minute


      "What's wrong with the g*damm United States of A?"

      Both parties routinely lie so policing for honesty would lock them all up.

      1. DryBones

        Re: Just one nose-picking minute

        Lies are not created equally, and some are accidents.

        Republicans are well past the benefit of the doubt and not even bothering to try and make them plausible, though.

        1. jospanner

          Re: Just one nose-picking minute

          Both parties are corrupt aristocracies.

        2. codejunky Silver badge

          Re: Just one nose-picking minute


          "Republicans are well past the benefit of the doubt and not even bothering to try and make them plausible, though."

          Like the Dems then. The illusion is believing that one's lies are justified and the others are not or as you put it 'Lies are not created equally'. The simple fact is that both lie their arses off. It doesnt matter if you support either or none. Surely that should be common ground most people can agree on?

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Just one nose-picking minute

            Nineteen times out of twenty, these articles about voter suppression, gerrymandering, stacking of the judiciary, outright illegal and unconstitutional conduct etc. etc. etc. involve only one party.

            And even if it were true, are you suggesting that "but the other side does it too!" is some kind of justification?

            1. codejunky Silver badge

              Re: Just one nose-picking minute


              "And even if it were true, are you suggesting that "but the other side does it too!" is some kind of justification?"

              Actually the opposite. That both do it and its as unacceptable regardless of which party.

            2. LucreLout

              Re: Just one nose-picking minute

              outright illegal and unconstitutional conduct

              I did not have sex with that constitution..... Bill Clinton, Democrat.

              Sorry, politicians are all as bad as each other and all see their supporters as nought more than useful idiots.

          2. Malcolm Weir Silver badge

            Re: Just one nose-picking minute

            @codejunky... you appear to confusing whether both parties would be willing to engage in distorting the actual "will of the people" with whether both parties actually are.

            I agree that there's not much daylight between the two on the willingness front.

            But there's plenty of evidence that, as of right now, the Republicans are actually doing far more than the Democrats. This is maybe because the Republicans are better at it, but in criminal matters, most folks want the more efficient crooks convicted ahead of the less competent ones!

            1. codejunky Silver badge

              Re: Just one nose-picking minute

              @Malcolm Weir

              It wasnt long ago the Dems were claiming Trump colluding with Russia. The idea that republicans are crooks and dems are not is the same bunkum that one party is more justified than the other. And before the AC jumps in I am calling both sides as bad and no I am not justifying it for anyone.

              1. Nunyabiznes

                Re: Just one nose-picking minute

                It wasn't that long ago that I helped my grandmother fill out her ballot (well 10 years now that I think about it) and it was interesting to see. It had a place to vote straight ticket for one party, but the other party had each individual name listed in smaller font. According to her, that was how it had always been.

                The elections supervisor for her county was Democrat. I'll let you guess which party was favored.

    2. Pascal Monett Silver badge

      Re: Just one nose-picking minute

      A very good remark. If a standard (i.e. poor) citizen were to try and pull that off, that's no doubt what he would get, but for some reason, politicians can lie their asses off without any consequence whatsoever.

      Even if the consequence of their lies is a lengthy investigation that costs plenty of money.

      I think it would be good to reinstate corporal punishment for lying politicians that throw gratuitous accusations. If you can't prove what you alleged, and the investigation proves that you were wrong, you get twenty lashes.

      I would pay to watch that.

      1. KBeee

        Re: Just one nose-picking minute

        It'd be interesting to watch the first dozen or two, but after two or three hundred it might get boring

      2. jake Silver badge

        Re: Just one nose-picking minute

        I would pay to participate in that.

        1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

          Re: Just one nose-picking minute

          lasher or lashee?

          is that you ------------------>

  6. Sitaram Chamarty

    what do you expect when ...

    ... the person in charge of *conducting* the election is also a candidate?

    just as a reference, in India the election commission is completely independent of the executive and the legislature.

    1. Version 1.0 Silver badge

      Re: what do you expect when ...

      The current presidential view is that failing to vote for a Republican candidate is undemocratic./joke

      If you want to understand American politics then the best way is to flip the statements around - what would the Republicans have said if Obama has made the same statements that Trump makes?

      1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

        Re: what do you expect when ...

        The current presidential view is that failing to vote for a Republican candidate is undemocratic./joke

        That is a bit too close to the truth to be a joke, leave alone a good one.

      2. Malcolm Weir Silver badge

        Re: what do you expect when ...

        A useful tactic I've used when (pro-Trump) colleagues complain about "presidential harrassment" and how mean people are being to the Cheeto-in-Chief is to observe that I think the 45th president should be treated no differently than the same as the 44th President was treated by Trump.

        (Birth Certificate --> Tax returns, etc).

    2. jospanner

      Re: what do you expect when ...

      And boy what a result it's had.

      Nationalist murderer in charge of the country.

  7. IGotOut Silver badge

    Move on

    Postal voting is the new vote rigging according to Trump. Even those not eligible to vote still can.

    It must be great being pioneers, I mean no other country has Postal voting.

    1. Luke Worm

      Re: Move on

      Many countries have postal voting. Many states in the US have postal voting.

      1. Paul Herber Silver badge

        Re: Move on

        I suspect IGotOut was being sarcastic.

    2. Version 1.0 Silver badge

      Re: Move on

      The Republicans are right about postal voting being easily hacked - they know this because they have been doing it for a while now. You send out "helpers" to collect peoples postal votes and hand them in - once you have collected them you examine the postal votes and throw away all the ones that didn't vote for the Republican candidate before handing them in.

      The other big problem with postal voting is that while a voter thinks that they voted, they will never know if their vote has been counted because when the vote is opened the name and signature is checked and if the examiner doesn't think that they match the registered name and signature on file then the vote is discarded.

      1. jake Silver badge

        Re: Move on

        If you have actual proof of such wide-spread fraud, please alert the authorities ... and the Press. Posting about it here does absolutely zero good.

        If you don't have actual proof, please retract your statement.

        "Everybody knows" is not proof, no matter how much you wish it were so.

        (Note that I am no fan of the current Republican way of doing things, but lying about things that aren't happening doesn't help the situation. You are either a part of the solution, or you are a part of the problem.)

        1. Roo

          Re: Move on

          "If you have actual proof of such wide-spread fraud, please alert the authorities ... and the Press. Posting about it here does absolutely zero good."

          Fair point, but I suspect the poster may well have been thinking about such as "Leslie McCrae Dowless Jr" - he has been indicted recently. Funnily enough it's actually quite difficult to get search results for this stuff because of all the mud stirred up by the Republicans - the majority of hits reflect their narrative rather than the fraud investigations and their outcomes.

          1. jake Silver badge

            Re: Move on

            One induhvidual, a convicted felon, in one podunk little county (~30K people total, largest town population ~3,500) doth not a nation-wide problem make. I find it somewhat amusing (and a trifle sad) how many people in this forum try to brush the entire population of the United States with a single brush ...

            1. Sorry that handle is already taken. Silver badge

              Re: Move on

              But I only have the one brush with which to brush

            2. Roo

              Re: Move on

              He did get paid 132K for the work...

            3. Roo

              Re: Move on

              "I find it somewhat amusing (and a trifle sad) how many people in this forum try to brush the entire population of the United States with a single brush ..."

              I did the opposite, I selected a very fine brush to highlight an 'induhvidual' case... The GOP are the folks applying the broad brush dipped in mud at the minute.

      2. Malcolm Weir Silver badge

        Re: Move on

        You will never know if your vote has been counted... ballot boxes get lost, electronic voting machines may or may not report tallies correctly, your name may not be correct on the register so they mark your ballot "provisional", etc. Think about the chaos of the Democratic primary caucus in Iowa this year!

        However, for those who worry about those things, California has ways to deliver completed ballots direct to the polling station or (in my city) large collection boxes at City Hall.

    3. jason_derp

      Re: Move on

      "It must be great being pioneers..."

      Hmm. Not sure this counts as being pioneers. No dead indigenous people.

    4. jake Silver badge

      Re: Move on

      "Even those not eligible to vote still can."

      I'm astounded that anybody (even the most ignorant of Trump supporters!) could possibly believe that complete fabrication ... The mind absolutely boggles.

      1. Sanguma

        Re: Move on

        that complete fabrication

        I'm surprised you're surprised. The RIAA got several rather dead musicians to sign some rather public ads saying they liked what the RIAA was doing. The idea that the dead can vote in the US is merely a sign that they are not in favour of discriminating against the dead. I suspect though that the returning officers manning the polling booths ... learn to look ... the other way when someone three years dead wanders in off the street with his ID card and ticks off the candidates ...

        I'm surprised that Hollywood hasn't made a hard-hitting documentary on it yet. We can but hope and dream. (Who would George Washington vote for in the coming election? That's what I'd like to know. And Benjamin Franklin, etc ... you don't suppose they'd apply for British passports and vote SNP just to get away from this unholy mess .... :)

  8. Luke Worm

    Accusations without evidence from a Republican? Who would've thought ....

    1. jospanner

      Please don't pretend that the dems are any better.

      1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

        Of course not, politician is just a dirty word for crook.

        1. jake Silver badge

          Not a dirty word.

          A synonym.

  9. Chris G

    The Devil went down to Georgia

    'Cos he wanted to be governor!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The Devil went down to Georgia

      Were he was immediately arrested for having red skin

  10. jospanner

    Brits, Euros, other people in the comments as if our own governments aren't bought and paid for by the richest people in society.

    A place where rioters get kangaroo trials sorted out in a matter of hours, but the cops whose negligence killed dozens at Hillsborough get away with fitting up dead working class people for two decades.

    1. Roo

      Sadly true. My interest in what goes on in the US is because UK government foreign policy has pretty much been dictated by the US government. Although that does seem to have evolved a little - the UK cabinet now takes it's orders from a bunch of shady think tanks that are set up & funded by US & Russian billionaires instead - I guess they cut out the middle man which makes sense if they already own the US government from top to bottom.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Brits can vote

      Brits can vote. Europeans can vote. The party in power doesn't organize the vote, the independent electoral commission organizes those votes. So you don't get the corruption of the voting process that you get in Georgia.

      So you don't get political appointees like Brian Kemp falsely claiming his opponents hacked elections, ELECTIONS HE RAN AND WAS ALSO STANDING IN. Because that's the core problem here, he was both the Secretary of State, organizing the voting and standing in the same election for the role of State Governor!

      He refused to stand down for conflict of interest. *He* was the man checking the election wasn't rigged in *his* own favor! That election is tainted.

      He ALSO oversaw the election of Brad Raffensperger in that tainted election, the new Secretary of State now cancelling the election for Georgia Supreme Court Judge!

      Brad Raffensperger, the new Secretary of State has no basis for cancelling the vote, regardless of Kemp appointing a temporary replacement.

      The Judicial appointment is an elected role, and yet if he refuses to hold a vote, Kemp can simply appoint a fill-in forever. A tainted fill in because he's beholden to Kemp for his appointment!

      None of this core attack on democracy is possible in the UK.

      You do not have a politician organizing his own election!

      1. veti Silver badge

        Re: Brits can vote

        Then change the law. If it's not up to the job of preventing shenanigans, then why haven't you complained about it before?

        Like Trump with his tax returns. If you want "publishing your tax returns" to be a prerequisite for standing for president, then change the law to make it so. Don't whine because someone is breaking a rule if you never made it a rule in the first place.

        1. Mark192

          Re: Brits can vote

          Veti, your comments imply AC has got the power to change the law and shouldn't complain about corrupt behaviour from politicians unless AC, personally, has previously legislated against it.

          Interesting viewpoint <-- sarcasm

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Brits can vote

        But Brits cant vote. Our elections were cancelled this year. Wonder if another virus will come along in time for the next general election?

  11. jason_derp


    Computers ≔ Magic

    Magic → Witches

    Democrats ≔ Witches

    Witches → Spells

    ∴ Democrats used spells on Kemp's computers.


    1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      Re: Obviously

      How to identify a witch

    2. Uncle Slacky Silver badge

      Re: Obviously

      Reminds me of this old story:

  12. EnviableOne

    Misconduct in public office ....

    under uk law we have this offence that seems to be relevant:

    Misconduct in Public Office

    The offence is committed when:

    a public officer acting as such; wilfully neglects to perform his duty and/or wilfully misconducts himself; to such a degree as to amount to an abuse of the public's trust in the office holder; without reasonable excuse or justification.

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